Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Kordesh

 Except for the fact that there are still bots running around, and most of the people that were banned appear to be completely legit users (one of them was a brand new account with a lvl2 character on it...)

 

... and this is from a company that's developed and run at least 2 other major MMOs (Lineage 1 and 2) for 7+ years. They still haven't figured it out... or they just aren't concerned enough to try. Also.. Aion's been out a year overseas... They should have had this sorted out by now. Not like it's some new, unexpected problem.

Sad truth about NCSoft: Outside of token bannings here and there to "shut people up"... they don't care about RMT. They don't care about bots. They don't care about gold spam. All they care about is $$$$ they get from each new subscription.

Having played and followed L2, and to a lesser degree L1 for several years, there's no other conclusion you can come to.

Aion's a fun game and I enjoyed myself playing it, but I will not support NCS with another dime 'til they get a freaking clue and start taking *real* measured, consistent and effective action.

 

I don't know about bots (haven't noticed one) but gold spam completely vanished today.

Also, for those players that were banned by mistake. These forums do not provide a solution, only a medium to vent your frustration. I hope you realise this and contact the company directly. Their contact delay time for emails seem to be one day, from personal experience.

The bots are still there, to be sure. If they're not, they'll be back in short order. RMT companies are resilient against even the strongest counter-measures. NCSoft's "anti-RMT measures" are a joke to them. 4+ years of first-hand experience with it in L2 has proven that out. What game it is don't matter so long as the company behind it doesn't change what they're doing.

Don't take my word for it.. ask anyone who's played Lineage 1 or 2 for any amount of time how seriously NC combats RMT/botting in their games and I reckon you'll get very similar answers... probably a few chuckles, too.
 

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Kordesh

 Except for the fact that there are still bots running around, and most of the people that were banned appear to be completely legit users (one of them was a brand new account with a lvl2 character on it...)

 

... and this is from a company that's developed and run at least 2 other major MMOs (Lineage 1 and 2) for 7+ years. They still haven't figured it out... or they just aren't concerned enough to try. Also.. Aion's been out a year overseas... They should have had this sorted out by now. Not like it's some new, unexpected problem.

Sad truth about NCSoft: Outside of token bannings here and there to "shut people up"... they don't care about RMT. They don't care about bots. They don't care about gold spam. All they care about is $$$$ they get from each new subscription.

Having played and followed L2, and to a lesser degree L1 for several years, there's no other conclusion you can come to.

Aion's a fun game and I enjoyed myself playing it, but I will not support NCS with another dime 'til they get a freaking clue and start taking *real* measured, consistent and effective action.

 

I don't know about bots (haven't noticed one) but gold spam completely vanished today.

Also, for those players that were banned by mistake. These forums do not provide a solution, only a medium to vent your frustration. I hope you realise this and contact the company directly. Their contact delay time for emails seem to be one day, from personal experience.

Like I said earlier, it won t last. They ll be back in force probably as early as monday. NCSoft just doesn t really care about it, they ll try for awhile and that will be it.
 

Able to log in today, seems they are solving the proxy banning thing.

But once i log in, guess what?

Tons of gold spamming, basically nonstop, and now they even make it coming out with all those design that it occupies your whole chat screen with a single spam,  cant stand it and i log out...

Of course the bots and spammers will be back, one way or the other. It's an ongoing effort for all MMOs that are remotely successful to root them out. The difference is that up to this point NCsoft was accused of tolerating them and in some cases some people claimed that they were behind the gold farming (as ridiculous as it may sound). At least we put the "we don't care" thing behind us. From my understanding, any transaction with gold sellers is traced and the people involved will be kicked from the game. It may not happen right away, but it'll happen, so if you value your account, stay away from gold sellers.

As for Lineage 2, it's a different story entirely. The source code of the game was leaked, so it was a lot easier to make untaceable and perfectly functional bots. This is not true with Aion. Also the company that managed L2 in the west seemed to be tolerant to anything that brought subscriptions to the servers, including the farmers. The latest swiping banning of both farmers and players involved with illegal transactions seem to indicate a totally different philosophy behind the new company running Aion in the west.

Finally a company do it right than. By banning both sellers and buyers is the correct way. Will come back a few weeks later to see how it goes...

You know the nerds that bought gold will whine to the company and plead that they didn't do it.

Seems you also get banned if someone bought items from you trough the broker and used kinah for that that  he bought of goldsellers.  So basicly you are not allowed to use the broker to sell stuff, cause you might get kinah trough it that originates from goldsellers., ye, really good job ncsoft. hooray!

What's obvious from this thread is that a whole lot of kinah was sold, but nobody bought it. :p Anyway I applaud NCSoft and encouarge them to keep at it.

You gotta love it... people whine and complain when that they don't do anything to stop gold sellers... Then they whine and complain when the take steps to stop them but they don't like how they're doing it.

It's a huge, incredibly difficult problem.  They're dealing with it, people just need to cut them some slack.

Originally posted by Rensyk

Seems you also get banned if someone bought items from you trough the broker and used kinah for that that  he bought of goldsellers.  So basicly you are not allowed to use the broker to sell stuff, cause you might get kinah trough it that originates from goldsellers., ye, really good job ncsoft. hooray!

WTF??!!!

Originally posted by Xasapis

Of course the bots and spammers will be back, one way or the other. It's an ongoing effort for all MMOs that are remotely successful to root them out. The difference is that up to this point NCsoft was accused of tolerating them and in some cases some people claimed that they were behind the gold farming (as ridiculous as it may sound). At least we put the "we don't care" thing behind us. From my understanding, any transaction with gold sellers is traced and the people involved will be kicked from the game. It may not happen right away, but it'll happen, so if you value your account, stay away from gold sellers.

As for Lineage 2, it's a different story entirely. The source code of the game was leaked, so it was a lot easier to make untaceable and perfectly functional bots. This is not true with Aion. Also the company that managed L2 in the west seemed to be tolerant to anything that brought subscriptions to the servers, including the farmers. The latest swiping banning of both farmers and players involved with illegal transactions seem to indicate a totally different philosophy behind the new company running Aion in the west.

It has nothing to do with the code being leaked. RMT companies sort out ways to bot in every other MMO, whether its code is leaked or not. RMT will happen in any moderately successful MMO. The *key* is in how it's handled by the company.

NCSoft has a proven track-record, 7+ years long, that they do next to nothing. A token ban now and again for good PR is not a positive sign of them suddenly caring. So far, that's all I'm seeing their actions in Aion as.

They added an instant report button to Lineage 2 some time back - around the launch of Gracia Final - and for a couple weeks people saw GMs scouring the Catacombs and Necros, ostensibly looking for bot groups to ban... People were thinking *finally* they're doing something about it. Then, suddenly... nothing again. Use the report button... nothing is done. Bot groups were running rampant in the catas and necros again, etc. etc. Things were back to "normal".

Think about it another way... Forget their experience with L1 and L2 for a moment. Aion's been out for over a year now. RMT happens in the East as well... Even failing to do so prior to launch, they've had a *year* to identify and implement means to deal with this problem in a live game. Yet they're only *now* starting to figure out how to deal with it for this launch. That's not indicative of a company who's "serious about combatting RMT in their game" to me.

Want to see an example of what I consider a *real* effort in combatting RMT - that's been very successful, and continues to be? Look at the Task Force SE integrated for Final Fantasy XI. Within a few months of implementing it, they took a run-away economy that was causing people to cancel and brought it back under control. They ran all but the most resilient RMT companies out of the game completely. They are constantly changing and improving their tactics and they are accountable to the players, reporting the what's, hows and why's of what they do. *That* is a company taking RMT and related activities seriously in their MMO. NCSoft don't hold a candle to them... and FFXI is SE's first MMO. NCS is on at least their 3rd in-house MMO.

It's going to take a lot more than a couple token bannings just after a game's launch to convince that NCSoft is taking a serious stand against it. If after a couple months or so, after all the hype and excitement from the launch has subsided, they're consistently and effectively dealing with the problem, making adjustments as necessary to deal with it, *then* we'll talk. 

I'd like to play Aion, too.. I have several really good RL friends playing it currently (know a few of them from Lineage 2, coincidentally), and it would be cool to hang out with them. But I won't support a company that is a non-starter when it comes to dealing with that crap.

Originally posted by tryklon

They are not stupid, and only idiot people seem to believe that a company with the experience of NCSoft would ban perfectly legal accounts with no reason just to loose subscription fees... grow up, if they ban someone and lost their income there is become they know theres a real reason to ban.

 

 

Umm... SOE has done mass bannings that swept up many innocent players in SWG and EQ2.  They set up an "appeal" process to sort things out, because they did a blanket ban as a quick fix to people exploiting.  Since they have no way to really track who gets currenecy and why they get it, they simply banned everyone who got duplicated currency. 

So yes, even experienced companies screw up. 

Think about it this way.  NCSoft was unable to stop the spam in game from the OBVIOUS gold sellers, but somehow they did a mass banning that got sellers and buyers? 

Are the bots gone?  Are the spammers gone?  Then maybe it is possible this didn't go exactly as you expect it did. 

They must have banned the wrong people... gold spamming live as ever.

Ah, the "we did nothing wrong" crowd amuses me. Maybe a very small percentage of you are innocent, but the majority of ya are just pissed that you got caught and want to bash the game to make up for your fail. I mailed gold and items to my alts, put items up on the broker all the time, and mail gold and items back and forth to guildies...no ban. Just accept that you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and take your punishment. If you weren't willing to risk getting banned for buying gold, then you shouldn't have been doing it.

Originally posted by n00bit

Ah, the "we did nothing wrong" crowd amuses me. Maybe a very small percentage of you are innocent, but the majority of ya are just pissed that you got caught and want to bash the game to make up for your fail. I mailed gold and items to my alts, put items up on the broker all the time, and mail gold and items back and forth to guildies...no ban. Just accept that you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and take your punishment. If you weren't willing to risk getting banned for buying gold, then you shouldn't have been doing it.

Yeah NCsoft is unbanning people atm and comping them time yet we still get numbskull posts like this.  Bitter fanboi at its worst.

This game littered with bots, gold spammers and RMT? If it does I'm not surprised it would happen.

Originally posted by n00bit

Ah, the "we did nothing wrong" crowd amuses me. Maybe a very small percentage of you are innocent, but the majority of ya are just pissed that you got caught and want to bash the game to make up for your fail. I mailed gold and items to my alts, put items up on the broker all the time, and mail gold and items back and forth to guildies...no ban. Just accept that you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and take your punishment. If you weren't willing to risk getting banned for buying gold, then you shouldn't have been doing it.

lmao. Yeah its the customers fault. Just like the long Q's, bots and gold spammers. Does NCsoft own any of their fuck ups or are they all the fault of the players?

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by n00bit

Ah, the "we did nothing wrong" crowd amuses me. Maybe a very small percentage of you are innocent, but the majority of ya are just pissed that you got caught and want to bash the game to make up for your fail. I mailed gold and items to my alts, put items up on the broker all the time, and mail gold and items back and forth to guildies...no ban. Just accept that you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and take your punishment. If you weren't willing to risk getting banned for buying gold, then you shouldn't have been doing it.

lmao. Yeah its the customers fault. Just like the long Q's, bots and gold spammers. Does NCsoft own any of their fuck ups or are they all the fault of the players?

With NC its always the players and has been through all of their games. They blamed the players in L2 for botting when the grind was so insane most never saw cap. NCSoft lacks badly in that department. But they are still successful so maybe that whole..treat like shit and they will want more theory is correct.

 Wow... so if you send money to your alts... that are on the same account, you can be flagged... for... buying ingame currency...? If a friend sends you a decent amount of spare change to get started... you can get flagged for buying ingame currency? And if a person in your guild, has bought gold, and gives some to you... you can get banned for buying ingame currency?

...

...

kinda funny.

Reminds me of this ideology...

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by n00bit

Ah, the "we did nothing wrong" crowd amuses me. Maybe a very small percentage of you are innocent, but the majority of ya are just pissed that you got caught and want to bash the game to make up for your fail. I mailed gold and items to my alts, put items up on the broker all the time, and mail gold and items back and forth to guildies...no ban. Just accept that you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and take your punishment. If you weren't willing to risk getting banned for buying gold, then you shouldn't have been doing it.

lmao. Yeah its the customers fault. Just like the long Q's, bots and gold spammers. Does NCsoft own any of their fuck ups or are they all the fault of the players?

With NC its always the players and has been through all of their games. They blamed the players in L2 for botting when the grind was so insane most never saw cap. NCSoft lacks badly in that department. But they are still successful so maybe that whole..treat like shit and they will want more theory is correct.

Arent you meant to be playing that great game Fallen Earth? All you seem to do is troll the Aion forums allday, makes me wonder why you havnt been banned yet.