The reason me and a few of my friends quit wow was because of the people playing it, not because of any gameplay or design feature.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by TheHavok

This is not true at all.  In fact, if you played the most talked about mmos that have come out AFTER WoW was released, you would have seen and heard many players saying things like "thank god this came out, im sick and tired of wow" or "this game kicks WoW's ass" and other things of that sort. 

It happened in AoC, it happened in Warhammer, and it happened in Aion.  BUT, then a few months go by and those same players say things like "Fuck this shit, this game has too many problems *sigh* I guess its back to WoW".

WoW players are tired as hell of being in the same game world for almost 5 years but there just isn't any alternative atm that can meet the standards of WoW.

 

Add dear HavoK the fact, that a lot of folks within the industry want desperately a NEW massively played shiny  game to put in the stores.

Of course it is not healthy that one game has all the market to itself. You get MS and Coca Cola situations.

The problem is ... the promoted games were really not good compared to WOW. And the final vote always lays with the PAYING 180 dollars yearly (western) subscriptions.

And so it all BACKFIRES. Meaning instead of dividing the market, they do 2 things:

They shrink the market: people wanting a new game and try the duds and then just leave the genre as a whole.
People go back to WOW in droves and buy the next expansion.

... making the WOW market even bigger than before.

So, if I read correctly, you're actually saying that a number of people who play WoW just lack the willpower to just quit it, even though they're sick of it?  And not only going back to WoW, but shelling out more money on the next expansion? Maybe what they really need to do, then, instead of seeking surrogates which end up disappointing them, is just quit WoW and try to find a game which does not try to copy it.

The problem is that this industry is dominated by sellout copycats and bean-counters, who just want to get a part of WoW's market share and decide the best way to do it is to copy it from start to finish.  Like Warhammer Online, even though everybody who manifested a long-standing interest in that game wanted a successor to Dark Age of Camelot, not WoW. What the hell was Mythic thinking?  Or rather, it's owned by EA now, so maybe there's nothing to add.  In the end, they never retained the DAoC demographic (I've even heard cases of people going back to the older game), and the tired-WoW-player demographic didn't want another clone.

I can't blame WoW for the creative bankruptcy of the industry; if it had not been WoW, it would have been another game.  However, I think there is definitely a part of the WoW players who MUST be blamed.

-Those who entered MMO's through the Blizzard connection and will just follow the Blizzard path like good little lemmings, no matter what the rest of the industry comes up with, and will meekly go with Whatever Blizzard Releases Next as though nothing else existed.  In other words, those who will be playing every game of Blizzard, good or bad, while ignoring everything else, good or bad. The sooner they are identified by the rest of the industry as the Blizzard groupies that they are, the better. (I've never played any Blizzard game outside of WoW, so I'm immune from that).

-Those who are sick of WoW, but don't have the willpower to actually hit the Cancel button, and actually STAY cancelled. If you can't do it despite your best wishes, the word for it is 'addiction', and you should seek help; it's the only people in this category I respect, because they really have a serious problem.

-Those who actively condone this addiction. I have nothing against those who play WoW because they like it, but when they start dismissing concerns of others who want to quit, but can't, as 'frivolous', because it would affect the membership of their beloved game, you're crossing a line.

Me, I'm gradually quitting MMO's. I'm still playing DDO (which really isn't one; it's an instanced multiplayer game, and quite fun for what it is), but I think I'm done with the genre.  I won't buy a new game, especially one with a subscription. I've been burned too often (at least you can return to a bad single-player game whenever you want without shelling out more money), I can't really afford it, and technology is leaving me behind.  I can't even play most new games with my current computer equipment. (Perhaps this also explains WoW's popularity: It's an old game, which most computers can run. While every new title goes for the graphical bells and whistles, Blizzard caters to what might amount to a captive market. Maybe people who would want to try another game just can't, and are stuck with WoW.)

If you don't see already that Blizzard will have huge population problems with CATACLYSM (Azeroth new), you don't follow this industy at all.

CATA also simply shows it is SO easy to make WOW2, without the disadvantage of have that #2 behind the name. MMORPG's don't age as other games do. Blizzard will never make the same mistake of EQ1/EQ2.

So age (and certainly not with cartoons) is simply not a factor.

-------

The NEXT big MMO game will be played complete outside the (Xn ... Sn)= WOW market. It will use X other factors than levels and S other strategies we see in WOW.

All the rest just reinforces Bliizards position OR people simpy quit the genre.

The rest of the WOW genre is niche talk.

 

My response is the green stuff above.

I think the whole WOW-hating thing is pretty simple really....anytime anything becomes popular/mega-successful/mainstream it becomes popular or cool to hate it. It has always been like that, and not just for games.  

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

To say WoW is the best the genre can do is a best non-sensicle. Sure, it has the most numbers, but that doesn't mean it's the "best". These are console systems where there are only two or three out at any given time. MMOs have direction and there are plenty of variety as long a you know where to look.

Those numbers mean something.  It's almost like you implied that lack of numbers is a win. 

WoW is the best in numbers for the reason that every casual gamer come into it in 5 minutes and knows what todo to be successful.Even a guy that never had before played any game will do it so thats were the numbers come frome.But that doesnt mean for sure its the best mmo out there.And for real not for mmo vets there are looking for a real challenge most of them and that is what wow never will deliver + the rest of these cookie cutter mmos.The only thing that annoys me is that a guy like you thinks you where come to a mmo proffesional through wow .What is the biggest joke for me and sure that you dont will understand my point but aslong i have a game that i enjoy and you have one i dont give a sh**.But true is that wow through there bigtime of money making was changing the situation for game developers they forced to create the next wow killer what means that many more games of i need more iq then room temperature games tobe succesful come out.But never forget its my opnion as mmo vet.I dont try to blame you for that enjoy what your enjoying even when its not a good thing for others :O

My biggest grip about WoW is that other companies look at WoW and making their games more "WoW-like" and hope that will attract more players. The worst example of this dumbing down /destroying a good game has to be the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies.

Copying WoW is like arguing with an idiot, he will take you down to his level and beat you with experience.

And yet NGE was forced on the SW Galaxy players when WoW, compared to the joke now, was almost hardcore, ( I promise I will never mention hardcore and WoW in same sentence again),  when picking realm, faction, class and race actually meant something and players stuck with those choises, and lvling wasn´t nearly as fast as it is now.

The downside of that, never adressed by Blizzard, was when one faction in a realm was small, it stayed small or more less disappeared because the downsides of playing the minority far outweighted the upsides.  And thus we have realms like Silvermoon-EU and several completly Horde dominated PvP-realms.

So far Blizzard has "adressed" that by free character transfers (epic failures because those that left were mainly from the less played faction),  killing off world-PvP with battlegrounds, because world- PvP tended to be one-sided with 2:1 or worse ratios, and later cross-realms bg to adress the queues for the more played factions.  Nothing to adress the actual problem, and that ultimatly was what made me leave the game a year ago and never looking back. The further dumbing of the game and the diluting of the classes, hybrids doing nearly as much dps as pure dps-classes was other but much smaller reasons.

But what really gets to my nerves and to really have me to start to hate the game and instead of letting the WoW boxes collect dust I throwed them away, AFTER smashing the CD:s, was when  WoW-players comes to EvE-online and Fallen Earth, the mmorpgs I am currently playing, and complain and demand those games to be more WoW-like...

Hello? I and many more left WoW for a reason, why in hell do we want another game being "transformed" into the game we left?

Thankfully I have yet to see the limit of the /ignore list in EvE and FE.  ;-) 

Easily 95+% of the people on /ignore such WoW-players. rest are scammers in EvE or "I want to talk american politic" in FE.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Vetarnias

My response is the green stuff above.

 

Like I said mulitple times before ... I don't even want to read something from a guy who leveled up to level 46 (!!!)  in WOW and still wants to have an opinion about all its playing aspects.

ANY 2 year old player (even haters now) will say WOW in its end game is a complete different experience than its early leveling game. level 46 ... really ....

And certainly with the changes made throughout TBC and Wotlk in its quest and 3D full blown (no limits) world design.

A guy who never even entered AV, WG, Eye, or not even done one tiny minor Raid content can't post 200 lines of text on Wow. You have NO clue about the class designs on higher levels, no clues about their grouping roles, no clue about leveled out professions, no clue about Guilds organisations, no clue about Arena's or ladder based systems, no clue about anything above level 47 really.

The problem is that you're proceeding according to a double standard: You welcome every level-20 newbie who fawns over WoW on "your" forums, and dismiss anyone who writes negatively about the game, no matter how much they've played, or for how long.  Don't tell me the level 20 is more credible with his assessment because he happens to be positive about WoW.

Don't you think someone who played the game for a month or two has learned enough about the game to know if he wants to stick with it?  I didn't reach the endgame, true, but even at level 46, I saw plenty to make me realize I did not even want to go there. When I quit, I didn't care what was beyond level 46. And when I wrote my piece (in January), I limited my observations to what I had seen and done, and by the way, I did not really dismiss the game out of hand; I just said it wasn't my thing.  But no, just that was already too much for you.

I think it would be the ideal time to remind readers of your attempt to cens... I mean, cleanse these boards of their negativity by grabbing them by the commercial cojones, and by promoting a scheme which would have forced posters to divulge their in-game identity before writing, just so you could establish your little pecking order of credibility as you currently do by forcing them to link to their WoW armory page. Even more amazingly, you wanted to cleanse the boards for Star Trek Online, a game which isn't even released, because you have an interest in it. Yet YOU have no problem with showing up in sections for other games and trashing them, like that little example for Warhammer Online ("the biggest joke and a laughing stock in EU") . It's a double standard all the time with you, Zorndorf, yet here you are again, claiming the moral high ground, with nobody daring to stand up against you around here.

Don't mind if I do.

You are discussing against a chemics professor having studied 5 years and you just came to know that Fe means iron on the table of Mendeliev.

So that's it, really?  No matter how long I would have played WoW, I would still have been behind you, and less of an expert, because you started playing before me.  You just want me shelling more money on the game, only to use the same argument six months or two years down the road.  Well, congratulations.  Please tell me again how this is any different from Darkfall forum users who were establishing a pecking order based on when they registered?

The person who said in this thread that it was all a bait-and-switch rhetorical game, that you either didn't play enough of WoW to comment or you played too much to claim you disliked it, was entirely right, then.

Simple as that. Never discuss games content wise with active players. Even players who played WOW for 3 years and quit the last year are already far behind in the new curves of playing options in WOW (some examples: dual specs, leveling through PvP, experience sht down, heirdom gear, pvp gear through pve, mobile siege engine, castle sieges, phasing , etc, etc...).

So first do the study and then talk content... in a thread about "WOW hate".

This thread isn't about game content. Look at the title: "I want to have a discussion about WoW hating...and the reasons behind it."  And this is what I did. I don't care if the OP's question was purely rhetorical (which I suspect, based on his post, which is all about how WoW is a great game). That's not what I'm about.  If you've read my posts in this thread -- and your reply here just indicates that you haven't -- you will also find out that I did not "discuss games content wise with active players".  You wanted to know about the reasons behind WoW hating, and I gave you many.  Including some you just managed to prove with your response.

Just go back and read my Post #85 here, which I suspect you -- all of you --  conveniently skipped because its content is a little too close for comfort.  But you don't really want that, do you?  You just want to persevere in your little world where you're always under siege by evil elitist gamers. Sorry to bash in on your fun, but you raise a question, and I'm here to answer it. 

Oh, and no need to maintain this little charade any longer. The person mentioned in there, who bickered over the Canadian dollars and the rest, was Zorndorf (as if you couldn't guess).

More of my green stuff above.

oh man now we waked up such a wow pro i metioned that thinks his keyboard face rolling skills take a study of 5 years

as i said before if your have fun with it keep going and i do my stuff but in the end it makes wow not more complicated as it is

follow your quest marks do your dungeon stuffs with your mob ai tactics that will impress no longtime mmo vet

you can talk so much how hard wow is but its not,even most of your own people dont claim it as hard content anymore since wotlk but yeah ... i need to play 5 years wow to have a clue :O

In my opinion MMO gamers hates WoW for the same reason fans of rock music hates Emo and fans of anime hates Naruto (note that I'm not saying that every one of these persons hates these things). What WoW, Emo and Naruto have in common is that they are all extremely successful nowadays, and for that reason they end up being copied by others and become a standard for its respectives industries.

When u copy something, u keep the good things and try to remove its flaws, but in the most times it doesn't happen with success, so the flaws remain and other ones can surge. Said that, imagine this: ur a huge fan of rock, and all of a sudden all that's new in the genre includes ugly hairs, sentimental lyrics and crappy guitar lines... annoying, huh? If you don't like it, absolutely.

We're customers of the game industry, so we're damn right in complaining, but we are wrong in bashing only WoW. WoW has success, it won't change so soon! We must bash the companies that copy Blizzard, hire some fresh Dev's and let their creativity flow, damn! Otherwise, it would be the same as to condemn Mc'Donalds for spreading obesity throughout the world and don't caring about other fast-foods restaurants.

Edit: I don't have nothing against WoW, in fact I think it's a pretty decent game, amusing and enjoyable in some ways.

I think people are generally very stupid and somehow feel the MMO they play represents them and their sad lives. Therefore many MMO gamers think it's cool to love their own game and hate other games in order to feel better about themselves, and since forum anonymity protects them from real confrontations they don't have to fear confrontations like they would in real life. Then they start coming up with really dumb theories in an attempt to seem like that's not the case.

I do not like Nickelback because the music is bland, simple and i dont connect with the lyrics

I do not like Titanic because it is long, overdramatic, uncreative and boring

I do not like WoW becasue of the awfully boring combat, the immature playerbase, the unfulfiling crafting system, the cartoonish graphics, boring quests etc.....

I dont get why people cant get that some people dont like WoW and otehr popular things for pretty simple reasons with no underlying physcological probing.

Scientology must be correct b/c millions of people follow that cough* religion!!!!!

Originally posted by masterbbb26

I do not like Nickelback because the music is bland, simple and i dont connect with the lyrics

I do not like Titanic because it is long, overdramatic, uncreative and boring

I do not like WoW becasue of the awfully boring combat, the immature playerbase, the unfulfiling crafting system, the cartoonish graphics, boring quests etc.....

I dont get why people cant get that some people dont like WoW and otehr popular things for pretty simple reasons with no underlying physcological probing.

 

Scientology must be correct b/c millions of people follow that cough* religion!!!!!

 

 

 

Hey what MMORPG game you play? Feel me in

Some people don't like WoW for legit reasons, and having played it since it came out, I can understand it.  Most of those people don't fall into the "hater" category though.  The haters are the ones who blame WoW for everything from the state of today's mmo's to global warming, to their continuing virginity.  These people hate on WoW because they think it raises their internet street (or is it geek?) cred.  Its what all the cool kids are doing.  Somehow, hating on WoW makes you more savvy and knowledgeable about mmo's.  Sure.  Ok.

Originally posted by LuckyR

Why WOW is hated. Hell that's easy! They took MMOs and down graded them to make it sooooo easy that my granny could be ubber. MMOs before WOW were challenging and fun to play, now you can jump into most MMOs and solo your way to max level.

WOW is resposible for this, UO, EQ, and games like that were hard to play, required you to group and DID NOT hand feed you.

Complain all you want, but if you were not around this type of game in the late 90s to early 2000 then you really do not know what an MMO should be. OH YEAH, and Blizzard advertised the hell out of WOW which is something no other MMO ever had to do.

Thanks.

/sarcasm on

No, no.  Thank you for telling me how to think.  And thank you for telling me what is right or wrong.... How dare I have my own opinion.......   I forgot that even though I suffered through UO and EQ that I still must put on rose colored galsses and remember the past fondly; even if those games were only fun (barely) because I was in high school and college with ample freetime.  How dare I desire to not revert back to the oh so accurate stereotypical mmo'er from the late 90's.

So, thank you for reminding me that having the desire to be able to progress through either many small pieces of time, or a few long pieces of time as fits my schedule...  I mean god forbid I have kids or a wife. 

/sarcasm off

/rant on

My final point.... if every thing is sooooo bad and uo/eq were so good.     GO PLAY THEM!!!!!   THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BE PLAYED, SO DO IT!!!!!!!!  Get out of our games and stop trying to force companies into the past.... Just go there yourself and don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out.

/rant off

Originally posted by LuckyR

Why WOW is hated. Hell that's easy! They took MMOs and down graded them to make it sooooo easy that my granny could be ubber. MMOs before WOW were challenging and fun to play, now you can jump into most MMOs and solo your way to max level.

WOW is resposible for this, UO, EQ, and games like that were hard to play, required you to group and DID NOT hand feed you.

Complain all you want, but if you were not around this type of game in the late 90s to early 2000 then you really do not know what an MMO should be. OH YEAH, and Blizzard advertised the hell out of WOW which is something no other MMO ever had to do.

Thanks.

You have some very distorted sense of measurement.

EQ is good because it is hard?  It is as hard as the developer wants to tune it.  As there is so few content in the game, the only way to keep people playing is to make it hard to level up and easy to lose xp.  That is the only reason why it is hard.  The mobs are not born to be superb, they are given digital numbers by the developers to keep you and us stupidly grinding.

Look at EQ1 today.  Mobs are pushover.  The developers know that people see through the stupidity of pretentious hardiness.  It is not hard, it is artificially made time consuming.

AND you still fall for that.  Next time I make a game, making it so hard that everything you kill pays zero XP.  Man you need to be a real man to play my game.  Remember to pay for a 100 years sub upfront.  It is a hard game.

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by masterbbb26

I do not like Nickelback because the music is bland, simple and i dont connect with the lyrics

I do not like Titanic because it is long, overdramatic, uncreative and boring

I do not like WoW becasue of the awfully boring combat, the immature playerbase, the unfulfiling crafting system, the cartoonish graphics, boring quests etc.....

I dont get why people cant get that some people dont like WoW and otehr popular things for pretty simple reasons with no underlying physcological probing.

 

Scientology must be correct b/c millions of people follow that cough* religion!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Hey what MMORPG game you play? Feel me in

To be honest at the very moment i am in a black hole of no mmo gaming.....it sucks but im not sure what to play next. I was just playing Vanguard but the grind got to me........before that i was playing TCOS but it failed. Im thinking of giving fallen earth a try but im waiting for a trial week so i can try it out before dishing 50 bucks,

Originally posted by Deestroy

It's because wow is a refuge from Gankers, we don't need world pvp, and it makes them mad. They cannot accept that as a player group that they do not matter. MMORPGS are about end game RAID progression and gearing up. Not some stupid sandbox mentality. The failures like Darkfall are stacking up, you cannot count the number of fail pvp wow killers have come out.

And then they complain about wow pvp being unbalanced, as if we care. We just let you have arena so you can be occupied, not our fault you cant get a good guild and play with the big boys. PVP if anything ruins end game dps scaling, just because some PVP scumbag feels butt hurt our DK tanks have to take a hit, or the recent rogue nerf. And now I hear their buffing Shadow Priests dps, which shrug is great for their pvp I guess, were still not taking them over better classes though. 

 

Most of the wow haters need to go play first person shooters. MMORPG's are not the place for mindless pvp, thats been proven.The Devs ignore you because you don't matter. WE matter, the raider, the quester, doing content, making new friends in town. You just have to accept it, we are in charge, and they get mad knowing this is a fact.  

'That response is so wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to start. Ignoring that rant is much easier.

Not really hating on WoW, but the ease of WoW wears thin after a while and leaves somethings missing at times. PvP lacks any real depth other than just to aquire points for gear.

The crafting is ease of use and does have the variety needed to make it wotrhwhile.

The PvE side does have some interesting aspects but still lacks interest in some areas.

As a older game they lowered the requirements on some mounts which was needed.

Classes are so far from balanced from each other it boogles the mind that after five years they would get it right instead of so many hard nerfs.

Oh and WoW expansions killed the world PvP.

11 million folks likes WoW and that pisses the people off who do not like the game. 

I would wager 90% of the WoW haters were diehard WoW fans who played the game relentlessly for several years straight.

Familiarity breeds contempt.  These one time fans are burned out, but cannot find a suitable replacement, so they blame what they once loved.

It is always easier to bash the top dog and assign blame, like how some subsequent MMO titles being subpar is WoW's fault

What is often over looked by the haters are a couple of simple facts:  No MMO forces you to play it.  Most people don't chose to entertain themselves with something they do not like.  That means 11 million people actually do like WoW.

And that pisses the haters off to no end.

Originally posted by Korhindi

11 million folks likes WoW and that pisses the people off who do not like the game. 

I would wager 90% of the WoW haters were diehard WoW fans who played the game relentlessly for several years straight.

Familiarity breeds contempt.  These one time fans are burned out, but cannot find a suitable replacement, so they blame what they once loved.

It is always easier to bash the top dog and assign blame, like how some subsequent MMO titles being subpar is WoW's fault

What is often over looked by the haters are a couple of simple facts:  No MMO forces you to play it.  Most people don't chose to entertain themselves with something they do not like.  That means 11 million people actually do like WoW.

And that pisses the haters off to no end.

 

Just a small reminder, the eleven million subs can't be used anymore as most people know that those numbers where from 2-3 years ago, it has declined somewhat and Blizzard has not even reported subscription numbers in over a year.