Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by metalhead980

Anyway I'm done, I could rip WoW apart head to toe before someone goes the fail route and brings up subscription numbers and that's no fun. Because we all know how much popularity equals quality

 

 

Just to make a point...  the "fail route" would be to bring up subscription numbers to debunk your opinion.  Because popularity doesn't equate to quality.

 

Yet one can just as easily say the "fail route" is to mention popularity versus quality to claim your opinion is correct.

 

MMO developers care about one thing.. profit.  They don't care if you like their game or not, they are there to make money.  Which is why popularity is all that matters... why?  Simply because... guess who is making the most profit?

 

Is it WoW.. or DAoC or EvE... or any other example you want to bring in here.  That is developer point of view versus player point of view.  Which is why we see the same game being made over and over and over (basicly).

 

I don't play WoW... never liked any Blizzard game (personal opinion).  However, this logic path you chose to apply here... just seems a tad off.

 

 

I think it's also important to point out that popularity doesnt' mean lack of quality either.

If we can use the McDonlalds comparison that is so often used when talking about mmo's, McDonalds wouldn't be one of the top fast food chains if the food didn't taste good on some level. It's not a high class restaurant by far but if it tasted like sewage or socks most people wouldn't eat it.

I oftentimes think that seeing a small group of people argue that what a large group of people likes is garbage seems a bit odd. if one distills it down a bit it would be like one person saying that what 10,00 people like is garbage and they don't know what they are talking about. Well, great, if the one person thinks that ,fine. But there are 10,000 people staring at him and his lone opinion and just shaking their head.

Furthermore, I think it's a bit ironic that people pick on the popular choices and call them bad or in the case of games simplistic, dumbed down, pick the adjetive when those same people most likely enjoy some sort of popular media that might also be looked at as simplistic and dumbed down by a group of more knowing individuals.

I'm sure there are people who look at the movies that many people enjoy and just roll their eyes. And though I use the music example quite a lot it really is apt.

Go through any of the music libraries of people on this site, maybe even the same people who are decrying the more popular games and I am fairly certain we well find music with the same key signatures, time signatures tempi and just same old same old that has been done to death. Same modulations (if they even have any) same obvious phrasing that lead to the same cadences with the obious slavery to the downbeat. When looked at in the eyes of what music has actually done it's beyond boring and same old same old. And has been done for hundreds of years in some cases, not the few years that video games have been out.

But people still like it.

That's why it seems to me that when talking about what any popular media has done right, they can't be compared to something that has more depth or complexity due to the simple fact that they are actually trying to accomplish different things.

McDonalds is not trying to be an exclusive restaurant with their own unique chef who creates different menus each week. They are tryng to create a restaurant that has food that tastes good to the pallet but that is inexpensive and fast. I have a friend who in some ways is a snob right down to his teeth and yet if he is in a hurry he might go to McDonalds to quickly grab lunch.

So with games like WoW, they aren't trying to add layers and layers of depth and complexity but are trying to create a game that is fun for people who have a few hours to kill and just want to enjoy themselves. The whole raiding endgame is most likely their answer to players who want to play wow but who put in far more than the average person. The average person does NOT have hours and hours to dedicate to a raiding guild.

WoW is trying to accomplish something different and it does it well. Just like McDonalds is trying to accomplish something that is different from other types of restaurants. There is little comparision because if people are comparing games or restaurants or whatever, they need to look at what the end goal is, what they are trying to accomplish.

Otherwise you get that one lone person talking to the 10,000 saying "you dont' know what you are talking about" and the 10,000 just nodding and smiling and saying "ok, thank you for your opinion, we'll take that under advisement."

It's not that somethign that is popular lacks quality just because it doesn't share the depth of it's brothers and sisters in the same genre but that it has quality in the few things it's actually trying to do.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by metalhead980

Anyway I'm done, I could rip WoW apart head to toe before someone goes the fail route and brings up subscription numbers and that's no fun. Because we all know how much popularity equals quality

 

 

Just to make a point...  the "fail route" would be to bring up subscription numbers to debunk your opinion.  Because popularity doesn't equate to quality.

 

Yet one can just as easily say the "fail route" is to mention popularity versus quality to claim your opinion is correct.

 

MMO developers care about one thing.. profit.  They don't care if you like their game or not, they are there to make money.  Which is why popularity is all that matters... why?  Simply because... guess who is making the most profit?

 

Is it WoW.. or DAoC or EvE... or any other example you want to bring in here.  That is developer point of view versus player point of view.  Which is why we see the same game being made over and over and over (basicly).

 

I don't play WoW... never liked any Blizzard game (personal opinion).  However, this logic path you chose to apply here... just seems a tad off.

 

 

Not Really I can go feature for feature and prove how average WoW is (I may one day if I feel like being banned) and not one person could fight me on it with the exception of saying something about its sub numbers.

WoW is a jack of all trades game with average features, it appeals to many people which is why it has the subs it has but to a player like myself that wants more from his MMO those Average feautures drive me insane.

Think about it, If your a hardcore PvEer WoW isn't for you due to its nerfing of raid difficulty and bastardation of pve Crowd control and roles, If your a crafter WoW isn't for you because anyone thats been maxx level for a week doesn't need your shit anymore unless you make consumables and if your a hardcore pvper with no World pvp, no alliance mechanics, no territory control and no risk at all WoW isn't for you.

So who is WoW for? I know... the people that don't play MMOs and this is why WoW has the numbers it has.

Want proof? Ask around your server if anyone likes mmorpgs, you will mostly get two answers. "Whats a Mmorpg?" "No I play WoW".

MMORPG

MASSIVE is the key operating word here.

If you want 4 v4 , 8 v 8 or 16 v 16 play a shooter or Guild Wars.

Zergs are Armies. You need an army to fight an army. That means you need to actually TALK and get involved with the community. It's really not that hard to grasp. If 1v1 is your thing, play Street fighter because MMO's are not designed to do that. A true MMO is going to let you assemble a massive army and let you lay waste to anything until an equal or better force opposes you. People need to stop trying inject every MMO with these f*cking shooter maps. The game is enough like WoW without adding in more of the same.

That's the whole point of it. MASSIVE not mini

Originally posted by Torak

MMORPG

MASSIVE is the key operating word here.

If you want 4 v4 , 8 v 8 or 16 v 16 play a shooter or Guild Wars.

Zergs are Armies. You need an army to fight an army. That means you need to actually TALK and get involved with the community. It's really not that hard to grasp. If 1v1 is your thing, play Street fighter because MMO's are not designed to do that. A true MMO is going to let you assemble a massive army and let you lay waste to anything until an equal or better force opposes you. People need to stop trying inject every MMO with these f*cking shooter maps. The game is enough like WoW without adding in more of the same.

That's the whole point of it. MASSIVE not mini

 

LOL! I agree with this.

Bring on the big 500+ player battles, Bring back that massive community feeling, bring back that hatred for the other faction or player alliance, Bring back the Massive war!!!

Im hyped now thanks! :)

Its not the zergs that are the problem, its the retards playing the game. They need hand holding for everything, im starting to think we should put these people in a real life instance so we can be done with them.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by metalhead980

Anyway I'm done, I could rip WoW apart head to toe before someone goes the fail route and brings up subscription numbers and that's no fun. Because we all know how much popularity equals quality

 

 

Just to make a point...  the "fail route" would be to bring up subscription numbers to debunk your opinion.  Because popularity doesn't equate to quality.

 

Yet one can just as easily say the "fail route" is to mention popularity versus quality to claim your opinion is correct.

 

MMO developers care about one thing.. profit.  They don't care if you like their game or not, they are there to make money.  Which is why popularity is all that matters... why?  Simply because... guess who is making the most profit?

 

Is it WoW.. or DAoC or EvE... or any other example you want to bring in here.  That is developer point of view versus player point of view.  Which is why we see the same game being made over and over and over (basicly).

 

I don't play WoW... never liked any Blizzard game (personal opinion).  However, this logic path you chose to apply here... just seems a tad off.

 

 

 

Not Really I can go feature for feature and prove how average WoW is (I may one day if I feel like being banned) and not one person could fight me on it with the exception of saying something about its sub numbers.

WoW is a jack of all trades game with average features, it appeals to many people which is why it has the subs it has but to a player like myself that wants more from his MMO those Average feautures drive me insane.

Think about it, If your a hardcore PvEer WoW isn't for you due to its nerfing of raid difficulty and bastardation of pve Crowd control and roles, If your a crafter WoW isn't for you because anyone thats been maxx level for a week doesn't need your shit anymore unless you make consumables and if your a hardcore pvper with no World pvp, no alliance mechanics, no territory control and no risk at all WoW isn't for you.

So who is WoW for? I know... the people that don't play MMOs and this is why WoW has the numbers it has.

Want proof? Ask around your server if anyone likes mmorpgs, you will mostly get two answers. "Whats a Mmorpg?" "No I play WoW".

 

 

Exactly wow is played by people who dont play mmo's. They're not mmorpg fans, they're wow fans.

Originally posted by Torak

MMORPG

MASSIVE is the key operating word here.

If you want 4 v4 , 8 v 8 or 16 v 16 play a shooter or Guild Wars.

Zergs are Armies. You need an army to fight an army. That means you need to actually TALK and get involved with the community. It's really not that hard to grasp. If 1v1 is your thing, play Street fighter because MMO's are not designed to do that. A true MMO is going to let you assemble a massive army and let you lay waste to anything until an equal or better force opposes you. People need to stop trying inject every MMO with these f*cking shooter maps. The game is enough like WoW without adding in more of the same.

That's the whole point of it. MASSIVE not mini

 

lol! exactly.

Dude, you ever come to Boston I'm taking you and your wife to dinner.

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by udinthrik

Is it just me or are the fort sieges just terrible? My computer can handle them fine, but DAMN that a ton of people.

 

Every time i get involved in a siege or defense, both sides just end up being at a stand off staring in awe at a sea of names without a clue what to do. With so many people it just seems chaotic and pointless with no strategy at all.One person.. hell one group dont feel like they are apart of anything.

 

Zergs are just ruining mmorpgs....

 

 

now im bummed out and have nothing to look forward too, the only entertaining thing to do is gank people...

 

Join a Legion.  Get on vent.  Assign a leader(s).  Organize.  Have fun.

 

I suppose the game could automatically place you in groups and give you objectives... that sounds familiar.  Ultimately though one would hope people aren't so retarded that they can't manage this on their own... apparently not.

long time ago I remember in WoW when I was playing in Horde side and some guys announced to raid alliance camps and cities. we even did it without vent, still we managed to control Alliance spots for some time until they called support. Unfotunately these days if you dont give player XP or rewards for PvP they wont. Funny thing is they want PvP rewards but they cant even use their brains for organizing a raid. I am sure that sonner or later Aion will have better organized players.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

 

long time ago I remember in WoW when I was playing in Horde side and some guys announced to raid alliance camps and cities. we even did it without vent, still we managed to control Alliance spots for some time until they called support. Unfotunately these days if you dont give player XP or rewards for PvP they wont. Funny thing is they want PvP rewards but they cant even use their brains for organizing a raid. I am sure that sonner or later Aion will have better organized players.

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

 

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

 

Because I simply point out that massive PvP Zerg fests is NOT the way to do a PvP based game these days.

Today's standards are the many different ... options of playing styles.

Alot people prefer meaningful Open world PvP, not enclosed shoe box style pillar humping. Take your crap else where

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

 

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

 

Because I simply point out that massive PvP Zerg fests is NOT the way to do a PvP based game these days.

Today's standards are the many different ... options of playing styles.

Zorndorf you speak for yourself and no one else.

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

 

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

 

Because I simply point out that massive PvP Zerg fests is NOT the way to do a PvP based game these days.

Today's standards are the many different ... options of playing styles.

 

Alot people prefer to dress up in women's clothes, go out on town and have an angry mob with pitchforks chase us down the street because our disguise failed. I am one of them.

We knew that all along supbro

Originally posted by rafaelrehn

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

 

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

 

Because I simply point out that massive PvP Zerg fests is NOT the way to do a PvP based game these days.

Today's standards are the many different ... options of playing styles.

 

Alot people prefer to dress up in women's clothes, go out on town and have an angry mob with pitchforks chase us down the street because our disguise failed. I am one of them.

We knew that all along supbro

Ignore Zorn, wow would've Open PvP, if the server could handle it. But because of the cheap servers, blizz has to put everything in instances (see recent changes)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by supbro

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

 

If WoW was so good and you were happy playing WoW and you are deeply in love with WoW and you could make babies with WoW, it begs the question why are you posting on the Aion forums so much? ;)))

 

Because I simply point out that massive PvP Zerg fests is NOT the way to do a PvP based game these days.

Today's standards are the many different ... options of playing styles.

 

Zorndorf you speak for yourself and no one else.

 

Perhaps a few others might think the same way :)))

LOL! You guys see his post! See that? That is what every WoW fan does when they completely lose an argument.

They either outright say it or hint at its playerbase size.

As for Massive world pvp being wrong you only feel this way because WoW doesn't offer it.

And no Wintergrasp is not open pvp its fighting at a set time on blizzards terms they might as well instance the damn thing like Av. 

It doesn't even compare to the pvp in other territorial games, Losing WG means next to nothing.

Again no risk in another system WoW uses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLINdB2spKI

Zergs FTW

I honestly feel that zerging is a tactic in it's own right.   While group vs group is fun and requires everyone to use their skills properly it is still heavily based on gear.  In zergs, gear doesn't matter as much when 30 people focus on you.  You try to get your entire faction or race suited up to their best to to do the most damage.  Individuals are just numbers in massive battles...and I think that's why most people don't enjoy them. 

With group vs group combat they make more of a difference and if they don't play skillfully they fail.  It's all balanced between numbers so they feel it's more fair and it's more a measure of their own skill.  On the other hand having the entire server go to war with one another one sides I feel numbers should matter.  A single player fully geared up and playing properly isn't enough to beat the entire other side of the server.  

The problem is that large amounts of people don't want large fights and choose not to be a part of it.  With those players not "playing" the game your side lsoes numbers and lsoes the fight.  What we need in Aion is more incentive to join these zergs...REAL benefits for the entire race, not the lame rewards individulas get for points and some halfass tax system. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

 

long time ago I remember in WoW when I was playing in Horde side and some guys announced to raid alliance camps and cities. we even did it without vent, still we managed to control Alliance spots for some time until they called support. Unfotunately these days if you dont give player XP or rewards for PvP they wont. Funny thing is they want PvP rewards but they cant even use their brains for organizing a raid. I am sure that sonner or later Aion will have better organized players.

 

I am quite sure that will not happen, because players are ... players.

And we are talking video games here.

Of course you can always blame the players. A traditional tric when something doesn't happen in a game.

Nah, it will happen.  Why?  Because the people that play this game play it for the PvP.  It's not Wintersgrasp where its a hundred individual retards just trying to complete daily quests.    I already know on my server multiple legions are combining into a mega legion just so they can take the massive zergs and bring order to the chaos.  Legions are already using multiple prong attacks when attacking fortresses.  As more and more players hit the higher levels, where PvP is the ultimate goal, the game will mature.

Hopefully they bump the rewards for defending keeps up soon(defending should be rewarded more than capture IMO).  That's really my only concern at the moment.

Originally posted by Ravik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLINdB2spKI

Zergs FTW

I honestly feel that zerging is a tactic in it's own right.   While group vs group is fun and requires everyone to use their skills properly it is still heavily based on gear.  In zergs, gear doesn't matter as much when 30 people focus on you.  You try to get your entire faction or race suited up to their best to to do the most damage.  Individuals are just numbers in massive battles...and I think that's why most people don't enjoy them. 

With group vs group combat they make more of a difference and if they don't play skillfully they fail.  It's all balanced between numbers so they feel it's more fair and it's more a measure of their own skill.  On the other hand having the entire server go to war with one another one sides I feel numbers should matter.  A single player fully geared up and playing properly isn't enough to beat the entire other side of the server.  

The problem is that large amounts of people don't want large fights and choose not to be a part of it.  With those players not "playing" the game your side lsoes numbers and lsoes the fight.  What we need in Aion is more incentive to join these zergs...REAL benefits for the entire race, not the lame rewards individulas get for points and some halfass tax system. 

Your race gets access to that keep and the instance dungeon within.  And everyone needs medals for abyss gear.  Participation isn't really an issue, outside of getting people to participate in fortress defense... which does need work.

Well then upgrade your pc, because its not the game developers faults that your pc cant handle pvp sieges and stuff. If it cant then you probabily shouldnt even be playing aion. OF Course they have minimum requirements for a game, but that is just to login to the game and get to the starting area. Big areas with Thousands of Wings everywhere + about 100 + people fighting will be laggy if your not running at least 2 Graphics processors if not 4 Graphics processor cores.

The best gaming PC's are custom built. with no lag, Aion I get 120 + Fps at all times running witrh QUAD 4850 X2 ATI Graphics processors over clocked.

Oh and dont tell me I just bought this dell, or I bought an alienware, unless you know exactlywhat is inside it, the pc sucks.

Originally posted by Ravik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLINdB2spKI

Zergs FTW

I honestly feel that zerging is a tactic in it's own right.   While group vs group is fun and requires everyone to use their skills properly it is still heavily based on gear.  In zergs, gear doesn't matter as much when 30 people focus on you.  You try to get your entire faction or race suited up to their best to to do the most damage.  Individuals are just numbers in massive battles...and I think that's why most people don't enjoy them. 

With group vs group combat they make more of a difference and if they don't play skillfully they fail.  It's all balanced between numbers so they feel it's more fair and it's more a measure of their own skill.  On the other hand having the entire server go to war with one another one sides I feel numbers should matter.  A single player fully geared up and playing properly isn't enough to beat the entire other side of the server.  

The problem is that large amounts of people don't want large fights and choose not to be a part of it.  With those players not "playing" the game your side lsoes numbers and lsoes the fight.  What we need in Aion is more incentive to join these zergs...REAL benefits for the entire race, not the lame rewards individulas get for points and some halfass tax system. 

The problem is the game mechanics do not promote small scale group PvP.  Once you get to higher levels, grouping just is not an efficient way of leveling.  Another problem with the end game right now is the game currently is having issues with performance for a large number of people.  There's nothing like trying to attack a fortress then the other side shows up and 80% of the raid disconnects and then wipes.

Originally posted by udinthrik

Originally posted by drbaltazar

 go back to wow then ,team is there let us have our world pvp

 

people that use this to defend any criticism are the ones that need to go back to wow.

 

i love world, free pvp. I just think it was a mistake to make the abyss so small with forts that only go vulnerable once a day. The Zerg would be more widespread if forts were always vulnerable.

If they always were vulnerable you would have the problem of people attacking in the middle of night or any other time where the fort is not defended.

What they could do is to extend the time that the forts are vulnerable. That would probably spread out people more.