Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

 

You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

 

 

Thats like a liberal in new york who surrounds themselves by only liberals and consideres themselves a "balanced moderate" - ah this thread is derailing its about the company; they got bruised because of their country's tax policy.  Bottom line.  If you don't choose to accept that inyourface fact well I cant shove it down your throat and you wont eat it, your loss.

If you think taxes alone is the reason they move then you are absolutely clueless about Norwegian economy. :)
 

 

Don't exaggerate the fact thats not what I said

Good thing they are not moving to the US at least, the 35% (communist) tax rate would surely finish them right off! Not to mention the higher aggregated payroll tax, the higher salaries, the expensive legal framework, the less efficient workforce, and vastly more paperwork and red tape.

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

 

You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

 

 

Thats like a liberal in new york who surrounds themselves by only liberals and consideres themselves a "balanced moderate" - ah this thread is derailing its about the company; they got bruised because of their country's tax policy.  Bottom line.  If you don't choose to accept that inyourface fact well I cant shove it down your throat and you wont eat it, your loss.

If you think taxes alone is the reason they move then you are absolutely clueless about Norwegian economy. :)
 

 

Don't exaggerate the fact thats not what I said

 

Good thing they are not moving to the US at least, the 35% (communist) tax rate would surely finish them right off! Not to mention the higher aggregated payroll tax, the higher salaries, the expensive legal framework, the less efficient workforce, and vastly more paperwork and red tape.

 

 

Can you please take a discussion about Communist, Socialist, Capitalist systmes or tax rates, and other monetary fiscal and govenmentary facts and figures off the forum and to the private messages. Nobody needs to read about that.

Please.

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Originally posted by Blackwell99

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Originally posted by FC-Famine

 

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Originally posted by Blackwell99
 
 But what you can't tell me is any reasonable contribution he has made to forward AoC's customer base. Because at the end of the day....that is what counts.
 

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Subs really have nothing to do with anything here I think. I thought we were talking about what hasn't been done? :D
 
 
 

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You lost me here
Subscriptions is the YARD STICK in which Craig is judged.....nothing else really matters ( as I'm sure you know)
You can make sieges run properly, balance classes perfectly, turn water into wine....whatever. But if that number doesn't change...it will mean nothing.
Plain and simply--nothing else matters....yes it's very Black or White. EG: Subs good------No Subs; Bad....... Money Good...No Money; Not Good.
So what hasn't happened? The game is in a state where it has actually "de evolved" due to poor decision making by the GD (see patch 1.05 and the murder system for details). The brand hasn't progressed. It hasn't improved. It hasn't even maintained it's subscriber base, It hasn't stayed relevant. Since these things haven't happened...If I were the CEO... I'd launch him like a lunar probe.
You want to defend Craig?.... Be My Guest.
Ironically, it may be your job that becomes a victim of his poor decisions.
 
 

---

I find myself having to agree with Blackwell on this.
The people who paid to have this game developed did so with the intention that they would make alot of money from a large subscriber base.
The subscription numbers is how investors measure a Lead Developer/Game Producers success. You can make the best game in the world but if you cant maintain an adequate subscriber base then you fail. Craig may have improved the development of the game but he has failed to stop the exodus of players nor has he suceeded in bringing in a substancial number of new subscribers. The people who have funded this game are not stupid in the least. They see the downward trend of subscriptions from the initial 800K+ to the less than 80K that is currently playing the game. Im reasonably sure that Craig isnt stupid either. He is also aware of the continuous downward spiral of subs and im sure he has been sweating his job for a few months now.
So, Famine, you are incorrect regarding the idea of subs having nothing to do with this thread. In all MMORPGs, subs are the most important statistic of all.

With that said, I believe that Blackwell is mistaken in his concern that Famine may lose his job due to Craigs miscalculations.
Famine seems like he understands his position with Funcom and he seems to be performing his job duties as expected. I doubt FC will dismiss Famine due to the failure of AOC, but rather FC most likely will make a lateral transfer of Famine from AOC over to TSW.
Craig, on the other hand, well that remains to be seen.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

 

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Originally posted by LordBonezy

 

POINT BLANK: WILL YOU EVER DO SOMETHING THE MAJORITY OF THIS COMMUNITY HAS BEEN IN FAVOR OF SINCE THE VERY FIRST WEEK OF LAUNCH? WILL YOU EXPAND THE GUILD BANK SO THAT THERE ARE MORE THAN 50 SLOTS TO BE SHARED BY 50/100/200 GUILD MEMBERS? BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR 550+ DAYS!

---

 

I understand the concern but the entire community (this means everyone) has not asked for expanding guild banks. Fixing bugs, adding more content and addressing the siege issues are generally the top concerns in the communities.

We did submit the extra slot suggestion to the development team though. We included the requests for extra character slots as well. Hopefully in the upcoming updates we can receive some more final words on the subjects.

 

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The game still crashes during Sieges. Walls in Sieges can still be glitched through, part of the problem seems to be reported as a particle issue, i.e. too many of them to draw on the screen at once with too many players. When is this going to be fixed? Its been 18 months since game was launched.

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Understood but that's not just with the siege system and more with the supporting systems with the playfields. We've added some changes to it that have reduced it but not completely. That's why I've said there is a focus on it. We do hear the community here and want to address it as much as possible. Hopefully 5.6 will help reduce the amount of issues there. If not, we will of course address it more.

I wish we could magically snap our fingers and fix every issue instantly but we can't. It will take some time to address the concerns within the game.

 

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3-6 Months after launch this was fixed. I was here. Don't tell us that was the sole work of CM cause it wasn't.

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The point here is that it wasn't getting enough attention till we took a look at what things we needed to fix according to our customers. When the big changes happen, the developers as well CM's turned things around and got it fixed. This is a prime example of how things were being addressed from what the community wanted.

Things don't go according to plan and when we don't address the top concerns then this is what happens. So we acknowledged this and fixed it because that's what was needed in our players eyes like yesterday. ;)

 

---

Players have wanted Guild Customization Options

 

-Able to set Ranks

-Taxes

-Customize the Guild Build Order

-Customize Decals in the Guild City

-Add traders and real meaning to Guild Citites and Customizable Buffs for Players in Guilds.

Guild Renown system includes none of that. You are selling Green Oranges and wondering why everybody is telling you from all angles that you guys don't get it. Stop marketing Orange Oranges when you are selling Green Oranges! Or start delivering the Orange Oranges and stop with the viral marketing trying to make the market think like you guys do which is to say that AOC is a great success and getting better than ever everyday and that we should all give it a 10+ and tell all of our friends about it so they sub too.

---

 

I believe ranking and decals will get some love in the coming updates but guild taxes and build orders may not. I haven't heard too much on build orders but the taxes is surely one of the top requested features. I will try to check on that some more with the developer but generally when there are focuses on systems (guild for this example) then more features will come in with them. I can't say much on the more details just yet but I hear you there.

 

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I would gather the poster is saying that Craig has been in charge of AOC for about 15 months and has delivered things but not the things the majority of the community has wanted and the populations in steady decline show that. GET IT YET?

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That's understandable to say but I will have to disagree with you. That's why I made the initial post and why I wanted to at least post a reason why.

The current counter-argument from some of the posters here is that all the bugs and changes we have made were too slow. Yet the point is that we weren't focusing on those top community requests. Now with the changing of the guard we had to restructure and focus on the things we needed to focus on. This is when you saw the memory issues, crashing issues and etc addressed.

The other response here is that the things we're doing now is not what the community wants. You can say that if you only read the suggestions you want to read and only pay attention to one community. Remember, we have more than the English US and EU community to handle. We also have the German, French and Spanish communities to consume as well. Even then, the amount of posts compared to the amount of players only makes up 10% of the current player base. Hence the player surveys we keep emailing.

Nonetheless, take what's going on now. We have the 5.6 update coming and the upcoming updates on the way. The current update on testlive includes the Veteran Reward System. This system alone has been request very hard for many months. This is not something we added out the blue. It's something the community wanted. The next change is the Iron Tower. Again, a lot of players want more high-end content and story. This addresses that. The next change is Tier-3 Raiding. As above, the same thing applies, more content, content and more content! Then lastly we have done some more fixes to sieges/dungeon to try to reduce the amount of crashing that affect them.

Seriously though, I rather enjoy reading you input here. That's exactly why I post on the MMORPG.COM forums. It's very important you tell us what we are not doing but it should be understood that there is more to the community than what's on the forums. You have the in-game community too who don't give us feedback at all. It's important we take things step by step in order to ensure we are on the right track. Not to mention convey that the track is not a super fast ride. Content is not easy to add weekly and the same applies to major concerns or issues like crashing/etc.

Cheers!

 

 

The reason they dont offer you help anymore is because these suggestions don't make it into the game, and should they on make it in its not until after those folks have already quit, so it doesn't seem timely. What the hell good is a hot fresh pepperoni pizza if I order it for lunch today and get it 3 months from now in the middle of the night?

You guys also mis-prioritize issues all the time. This guild bank issue for example has been way more of an issue that the stupid NPC vendor in the tradepost but you chose to fix that one first. Of course I know it needed to be fixed but my point is that mechanics should take priority over cosmetics in a game that already looks beautiful but lacks substance. So don't blame your customers for your failures. Your customers didn't cause you to launch before you had the game done, or execute design decisions after launch which are limiting your appeal to potential, previous and current customers. You guys are doing that, not the players. If anybody has an interest in seeing the game improved it is the folks paying for you and you better stop fucking forgetting that Famine.

So if an issue was on the forums, had more than say 40 pages of threadage in a single thread and more than 400 posts would it then be worthy of consideration by the develoment team after 18 months?

I'm curious as to where you guys draw the line and just how a team of 100 folks working 40 hours a week can fail to not address this concern when it first appeared immediately after launch. I know there are thousands of suggestions that have been made but those that keep recurring, keep coming up over and over should those not be addressed? This is exactly what the bank issue is.

Lack of completed voice overs is another issue which evidently which will never be done.

Sieges which are sometimes unplayable because they crash any wheres from 1/3-2/3 of the time not 3 months from launch, or 6 months, or a year later but a year and a half later and the best pill you got for us to swallow is you wish you had magic to fix it?

The reason you are wishing you had magic is because you are absent a leader with the ability to effectively turn this project around.

Say it with Famine and Craig you can jump in here too at any time... The reason customers are leaving is because we have not turned this product around. It is not because of the alignment of the stars or external market forces. It is not because customers don't know about what AOC is, or the history of AOC, or because customers do not know the current state, it is because of our actions at Funcom, the decisions we made, conditions we launched under, the pace of our development, and the CURRENT STATE OF AGE OF CONAN, which is shameful. That is why 95% of the people who have ever played Age of Conan no longer play.

I didn't want to rip on you guys but everywhere I go online I see flash ads for AOC and I see new free trials, and I read the Ten Ton Hammer exclusives and I see the total disconnect of the development team led by Craig and I see how absolutely clueless of a manager he is in terms of implementing suggestions in rapidfire that this community has hand fed them from the beginning.

Have a look in your suggestion forum you know that forum where the in game community helps you out or at least trys. Give the threads that have over 300 posts some priority let me see if I can help you guys out. I'll give you the 5 most recent threads which have heavy discussion. Maybe there is even some agreement by those discussing on what you guys should do. Hmmmm lets see here...

Page 2 of the thread list. Colluseium idea... 430 posts thread started July 11 2008...

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

Page 4 More Better Armor and More Better Mature Content 312 Posts June 3 2008

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php 

Page 4 Alternate Combo System 800+ posts May 27 2008

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

Page 18 Guild Management Tools May 23 2008

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

Page 20 Charcter Slot Expansion 927 posts June 13th 2008 I think you guys did boost the character slots after a year. Couldn't do that while you still had 75% or 50% or 25% of the player base still around? I mean come one, pace of improvements. Seeing the common theme yet? You guys say you dont get feedback from players in game. Thats because the guys left are simply more inclined to not care whether or not you implement because the rest have left. Statistically speaking.

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

Page 23 Female Characters need sexier clothing 513 posts started June 9 2008

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

And another one on the same type of thing... 300+ posts For a game played by 93% guys they sure are concerned about what the women wear right? Can you say crossdresser?

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

So in closing are you guys even aware you have a suggestion forum?

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

 

You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

 

 

Thats like a liberal in new york who surrounds themselves by only liberals and consideres themselves a "balanced moderate" - ah this thread is derailing its about the company; they got bruised because of their country's tax policy.  Bottom line.  If you don't choose to accept that inyourface fact well I cant shove it down your throat and you wont eat it, your loss.

If you think taxes alone is the reason they move then you are absolutely clueless about Norwegian economy. :)
 

 

Don't exaggerate the fact thats not what I said

 

Good thing they are not moving to the US at least, the 35% (communist) tax rate would surely finish them right off! Not to mention the higher aggregated payroll tax, the higher salaries, the expensive legal framework, the less efficient workforce, and vastly more paperwork and red tape.

 

 

 

Can you please take a discussion about Communist, Socialist, Capitalist systmes or tax rates, and other monetary fiscal and govenmentary facts and figures off the forum and to the private messages. Nobody needs to read about that.

Please.

Thank you.  Only in relation to the company does anything like taxes mean anything to this forum.  The topics themselves take to another forum.

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

 

You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

 

 

Thats like a liberal in new york who surrounds themselves by only liberals and consideres themselves a "balanced moderate" - ah this thread is derailing its about the company; they got bruised because of their country's tax policy.  Bottom line.  If you don't choose to accept that inyourface fact well I cant shove it down your throat and you wont eat it, your loss.

If you think taxes alone is the reason they move then you are absolutely clueless about Norwegian economy. :)
 

 

Don't exaggerate the fact thats not what I said

 

Good thing they are not moving to the US at least, the 35% (communist) tax rate would surely finish them right off! Not to mention the higher aggregated payroll tax, the higher salaries, the expensive legal framework, the less efficient workforce, and vastly more paperwork and red tape.

 

 

 

Can you please take a discussion about Communist, Socialist, Capitalist systmes or tax rates, and other monetary fiscal and govenmentary facts and figures off the forum and to the private messages. Nobody needs to read about that.

Please.

 

Thank you.  Only in relation to the company does anything like taxes mean anything to this forum.  The topics themselves take to another forum.

My point is we dont need a flame war started by pseudo economics or 1st year poly sci students in a MMO game forum when we are busy setting Funcom straight and the general public about Age of Conan. Thanks :)

Originally posted by Vespers

 

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Originally posted by Blackwell99

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Originally posted by FC-Famine

 

 
 

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Originally posted by Blackwell99
 
 But what you can't tell me is any reasonable contribution he has made to forward AoC's customer base. Because at the end of the day....that is what counts.
 

 

---

 
Subs really have nothing to do with anything here I think. I thought we were talking about what hasn't been done? :D
 
 
 

---

 

 
You lost me here
Subscriptions is the YARD STICK in which Craig is judged.....nothing else really matters ( as I'm sure you know)
You can make sieges run properly, balance classes perfectly, turn water into wine....whatever. But if that number doesn't change...it will mean nothing.
Plain and simply--nothing else matters....yes it's very Black or White. EG: Subs good------No Subs; Bad....... Money Good...No Money; Not Good.
So what hasn't happened? The game is in a state where it has actually "de evolved" due to poor decision making by the GD (see patch 1.05 and the murder system for details). The brand hasn't progressed. It hasn't improved. It hasn't even maintained it's subscriber base, It hasn't stayed relevant. Since these things haven't happened...If I were the CEO... I'd launch him like a lunar probe.
You want to defend Craig?.... Be My Guest.
Ironically, it may be your job that becomes a victim of his poor decisions.
 
 

---

 

I find myself having to agree with Blackwell on this.
The people who paid to have this game developed did so with the intention that they would make alot of money from a large subscriber base.
The subscription numbers is how investors measure a Lead Developer/Game Producers success. You can make the best game in the world but if you cant maintain an adequate subscriber base then you fail. Craig may have improved the development of the game but he has failed to stop the exodus of players nor has he suceeded in bringing in a substancial number of new subscribers. The people who have funded this game are not stupid in the least. They see the downward trend of subscriptions from the initial 800K+ to the less than 80K that is currently playing the game. Im reasonably sure that Craig isnt stupid either. He is also aware of the continuous downward spiral of subs and im sure he has been sweating his job for a few months now.
So, Famine, you are incorrect regarding the idea of subs having nothing to do with this thread. In all MMORPGs, subs are the most important statistic of all.

With that said, I believe that Blackwell is mistaken in his concern that Famine may lose his job due to Craigs miscalculations.
Famine seems like he understands his position with Funcom and he seems to be performing his job duties as expected. I doubt FC will dismiss Famine due to the failure of AOC, but rather FC most likely will make a lateral transfer of Famine from AOC over to TSW.
Craig, on the other hand, well that remains to be seen.
 

Just picked up on a couple things in the above posts which I think is ultimately steering the conversation progressively away from the original topic and in to the realms of trying to justify one thing in to meaning another by some loose linkage.

(I would also like to see Vespers back all those claims he makes, as right now they are just claims and not factual. "no adequate subscriber base", "nor has he suceeded in bringing in a substancial number of new subscribers", " to the less than 80K that is currently playing the game". Where is the middle ground in these statements or is it presented in an either yes or no fashion just because it conforms in some way to other opinions presented in the past on the game?)

You would have to be silly to think that the game was not made to make money. On that thought process, stockholders would value the health of the company on a multitude of things with subscribers being one of them, but is most definately not the be all and end all. You think many stockholder would read Craig's blog and then read what Blackwell says and understand his reasons for it in this post and previous and simply think, oh wow this guy has to go. Gimmie a break..

The simple fact that you guys are trying to push the fact that because the game doesn't have a massive amount of subscribers and that people left for the same reasons of you it is ok to lump the game in the fail bucket. Your wrong in my opinion. You're reasons might very well be valid and just but using the above to try and justify it is wrong.

Just because religion 'A' or mmorpg 'A' has X amount of subscribers makes it fun, right or worthy. By the same token just because religion 'Z' or mmorpg 'Z' does not have 'A's numbers doesn't make it not have these things either. Why do people chose A or Z? Why do some people fail to see all the other letters in the alphabet? Using sub numbers to re-inforce a decision either way, that suits your own opinion on matters lessens points made not strengthens in my opinion. Your putting points across without backing them up.

What was it Craig said? "It seems that it isn't ok to disagree anymore. If you don't share an opinion then you are wrong"?

Trying to lump things as "Black" and "White" and not understanding there is a middle ground which Craig did point out is called "Common ground" is just not wanting to take the blinkers off. I definately think some people here refuse to take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture just because they can't bring themselves to see things differently or maybe they just don't want to. Whose knows, I just know that some people here have an opinion that theirs and the outlook is that it is the only opinion that matters, it is right, no matter what anyone says, but they ignore reason. This is the exact Black and White situation that Craig is talking about in his blog.

Simply put it is a refusal to see things another way. Just like the guy in the blog who brought the topic up essentially in the first place.

Craig says; "there are many that seem to think the best way to argue for their opinion is to detract from the other opinion rather then to support their own, and whenever their particular interest isn't the focus to complain about the others being pointless because they don't personally share that preference."
 

Have we not seen both sides of this in the thread already? We have the chat regards to location you are, government types and the change again to suggesting people will be fired and employment changes. Is this the Black and White Craig means? have a think about that for a minute.

I really think that in the opening post Blackwell just goes whole hog for the extreme, trying to justify a blog by the game director of a game that Blackwell doesn't play and really, really, really, dislikes to suit his own opinion. This is an opinion carry forward in nearly all posts here. Of course he is entitled to that opinion and those things I just said are completely recognised and at the same time I can respect that opinion but laughably disagree with the premise the post was made upon and well pretty much everything else that came after. This is just a point of course, we can share opinions and it is ok to disagree and keep on topic.

I have scope to read into the Common Ground though, it is not all "Black"...."Well". When we talk Age of Conan it is constructive feedback that devs rely upon. This is to better the game for the players and community. If you want to be a part of a community but not be a player than respect is needed for both sides. In fact I think the first part of that last sentance is idiotic if that non player has no interest in being constructive.

You guys have that "scope" too. So what about the people that play the game and enjoy it, is it too hard to respect that is their decision and premise? Why does everything have to conform to that Black or White opinion and then have no common ground or acknowledgement. Why does it have to be about subs ignore the fact that there are plenty of people out there enjoying the game as it is? Of course everyone has an opinion about changing things for the better.

Why is it time for a change Blackwell? (as you said in your first post) Do you really have a secret passion for Age of Conan? Or is it that it is widely regarded that Craig has done a good job for the game. I am just curious. Lord B is obviously passionate that he felt that all of his requests to the developers have not been implemented in the way he sees fit (thats ok to feel like that) doesn't mean to say you was not heard. Sure it is ok to put across points, and I am not arguing on the whole that what Lord B is saying is not right, just the way he goes about it. just like last fall with the fail blog post and another 6 months paid up later same thing again. There are things called priorities though, and the people who make the game are paid to get those in order based on collected feedback and sometimes those particular things might not be top of the list. Any scope to understand that?

Plenty of people like the game for what it is, a game. Plenty of people play the game and like it a lot. Plenty of people played the game and didn't like it. Plenty of people played the game liked it and left because they wanted more.

Funcom obviously likes feedback from always asking for constructive feedback, sending out surveys and publically asking people. Advocate program is place is a good example. Pages and pages of feedback have been given and acted on collated from the community and delievered on to the desks of those making each part of the game (or most, so far).

I think this thread proves what Craig said in the blog:

"If you speak to players about what they would most like to see from developers it is almost inevitably more communication; and that is something I strongly believe in. However much of the will and motivation for doing so can be drained by the behaviour like that described above. In many ways if the developer feels that they just can't win on any given topic they are less likely to interact. They feel that way because rather than wanting to engage on the topics that can be discussed or when they want to ask questions they can find themselves on the defensive about things that shouldn't even need defending."

(Can they meet you half way Lord B? any room for that?, or you agree should be fired for doing (the possibility) for more important updates that may not be to your liking, but to the bigger pictures?)
 

Yes or not situation brought up, no room for common ground given by the OP, no room for discussion. When I read here ont eh boards it is apparently it is all 80k subs, fail devs, Xfire says this, population on servers are this, failed in job, murder system failed. You think FC want to come communicate when there is no room for manouver? Let alone no proof that this, this and this is accurate.

Bravo for Craig to sticking to his guns and interjecting and communicating with the community and having an opinion on balance and PVP and PvE and then having someone digress with a sentance that doesn't help them in any way. (reason in blog was mentioned)

EDIT: typo's

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Originally posted by LordBonezy

 

So if an issue was on the forums, had more than say 40 pages of threadage in a single thread and more than 400 posts would it then be worthy of consideration by the develoment team after 18 months?

I'm curious as to where you guys draw the line and just how a team of 100 folks working 40 hours a week can fail to not address this concern when it first appeared immediately after launch. I know there are thousands of suggestions that have been made but those that keep recurring, keep coming up over and over should those not be addressed? This is exactly what the bank issue is.

Lack of completed voice overs is another issue which evidently which will never be done.

---

Fair questions.

I know what thread you're referring too because it's on the US forums. Yet the point I'm trying to highlight here is the game is more than just the US players. For me, 400 posts is a good thread to really take some notice but 400 people compared to the entire player base is very small percentage too.

A good example here is the server merger thread. This is a thread that both ended up on US, EU-EN, DE, FR, and even SP. What we do just for the US reflects all regions because we are all the same in-game community but with different needs.

Speaking on the thread you're quoting here. We've added and going to add 50% of the suggestion (may be more) into the game. I believe the only things that I can say we haven't done or I know of us doing is the guild tax and extra space in guild banks (although the original idea is not for extra space).

Extra character slots, more bank space and even more inventory space are all major changes to the database. It's not the same as a simple vendor that holds a set amount of goods per server. That's because it takes major support from the database and even hardware side of things. It's also taking major risks to the stability of player data that comes into the game. Thus we can't just can't add such suggestions quickly and sometimes can't add them at all due to hardware or even software limitations.

This is the hardest concern to address for any community manager I feel. How can you convey to players that not every MMO uses the same hardware, software, engineering and etc? Then how you can convey that something is simply not possible with the amount of resources on the table?

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Originally posted by LordBonezy
I didn't want to rip on you guys but everywhere I go online I see flash ads for AOC and I see new free trials, and I read the Ten Ton Hammer exclusives and I see the total disconnect of the development team led by Craig and I see how absolutely clueless of a manager he is in terms of implementing suggestions in rapidfire that this community has hand fed them from the beginning.

---

You have a right to your own opinion and I respect that. I'm not saying your right or wrong here. I just wanted to show you that we are here and reading your input. We won't please everyone and that's alright too.

Thanks for the input LordBonezy. Always a pleasure. :)

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Sabradin

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Sabradin

I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

 

You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

 

 

Thats like a liberal in new york who surrounds themselves by only liberals and consideres themselves a "balanced moderate" - ah this thread is derailing its about the company; they got bruised because of their country's tax policy.  Bottom line.  If you don't choose to accept that inyourface fact well I cant shove it down your throat and you wont eat it, your loss.

If you think taxes alone is the reason they move then you are absolutely clueless about Norwegian economy. :)
 

 

Don't exaggerate the fact thats not what I said

 

Good thing they are not moving to the US at least, the 35% (communist) tax rate would surely finish them right off! Not to mention the higher aggregated payroll tax, the higher salaries, the expensive legal framework, the less efficient workforce, and vastly more paperwork and red tape.

 

 

 

Can you please take a discussion about Communist, Socialist, Capitalist systmes or tax rates, and other monetary fiscal and govenmentary facts and figures off the forum and to the private messages. Nobody needs to read about that.

Please.

 

Thank you.  Only in relation to the company does anything like taxes mean anything to this forum.  The topics themselves take to another forum.

 

My point is we dont need a flame war started by pseudo economics or 1st year poly sci students in a MMO game forum when we are busy setting Funcom straight and the general public about Age of Conan. Thanks :)

I figured thats what you meant.  Sometimes facts are hard to digest and we tend to

Funcom WAS/is hurt by the taxation which is why they opened a studio -

"In addition to strengthening our North American presence, the new studio will take advantage of the great incentive programs offered by the Québec region, incentives that makes Montréal one of the most cost effective locations in the world for developing MMO games. This will in turn allow us to better balance our costs, making it possible for us to continue to expand our investments into the MMO segment"*

We should get that straight.  No need to delve into the textbooks on this.  A general (public) education should be enough.

Originally posted by Blackwell99

Craig Morrison's Blog: usuallyfine.blogspot.com/2009/10/community-communicationbetween-rock-and.html

It seems that it isn't ok to disagree anymore. If you don't share an opinion then you are wrong. We seem to be living in an age where people want to categorise things as black and white, right and wrong, you and me, that two different sides of an argument couldn't possibly share common ground.

Perhaps it is indicative of the type of partisan opinion divisions we see in our society, media and politics in many places in the world these days. It seems that for many it is the norm that if you don't agree with someone the best tactic is to attack them, insult them or perhaps question their genetic lineage. (and it's not like the internet needed another excuse for that kind of behaviour in the first place)

Personally I find it a great shame. In making games like ours there is no real 'right and wrong'. Different players have different tastes and as long as we are aiming to cater for several different playstyles with any given title we will have that balance to strike constantly, and that means that one side or the other won't always get their way, or be the priority for any given update to the game.

See Craig (and Famine), you understand how modern society works today but you still fail to apply your knowledge to the game you design.
No wonder your game is so mediocre.
Unfortunately this is the tendency of most of the recent AAA MMORPGs.
Designers think that in order to attract both "meat eaters" and "vegetarians" is ok to mix beef with broccoli, forgetting the fact that who likes the meat probably dislikes broccoli and viceversa, no matter how hard you try to balance the recipe.
This people would probably like to have more meat on their plate rather than broccoli, and that's a fact.

We are in an age when pleasing everyone is just not possible, in fact if you offer a product that tries to please everyone, you will obtain the opposite results.
Games that tries to please everyone are the ones that disappoint the most: AoC, Warhammer, EQ2 to name few.
WoW is not a generic game like the above mentioned, although most of the designer tend to disagree with me, and by doing so they will keep missing the real reason why WoW is successfull.

The way to go now is either niche, like Darkfall and Fallen Earth, or focus on a particular audiance, like Bioware is doing with SWTOR.
The story driven thingy won't go down well with everyone, they will lose a potential chunk of players because of that, but I am sure that because they focused on that market sector they will be able to retain most of that kind of audiance, unlike AoC.
Also let's not forget that Darkfall and Fallen Earth were developed by Indies, if those games were developed by AAA studios and presented with a AAA package, I am sure that their subscriber base would be 10 times higher.
Instead companies like Funcom keep focusing on watered down MMORPGs with no identity.
You are all seeking to achieve  the 10 million mark subscription by trying to copy WoW format and failing in the process, while you are ignoring all the minor markets (niche) which could give you 1 million subscribers easily (1 million x 10 Euro a month = 10 million Euros a month, 120 Million a year.............is that not good enough FFS?)

AoC is neither fish or meat.
I played it........twice.
It is an average game, not bad at all, at time quite enjoyable, but it is way too generic to keep a certain type of community for long.
And that's where YOU and your predecessor got it wrong.
If you really want to make a succesful game, look no further than Ultima Online.
You might get 1 Million subs instead of 10 Millions, but at least you will have a steady number of subscribers each month for a long period of time.
The developers who gets the successor of Ultima Online right, will be the next Blizzard, even if on a smaller scale.
Devs need to just grow some balls and go for it.

Just picked up on a couple things in the above posts which I think is ultimately steering the conversation progressively away from the original topic and in to the realms of trying to justify one thing in to meaning another by some loose linkage.

(I would also like to see Vespers back all those claims he makes, as right now they are just claims and not factual. "no adequate subscriber base", "nor has he suceeded in bringing in a substancial number of new subscribers", " to the less than 80K that is currently playing the game". Where is the middle ground in these statements or is it presented in an either yes or no fashion just because it conforms in some way to other opinions presented in the past on the game?)

You would have to be silly to think that the game was not made to make money. On that thought process, stockholders would value the health of the company on a multitude of things with subscribers being one of them, but is most definately not the be all and end all. You think many stockholder would read Craig's blog and then read what Blackwell says and understand his reasons for it in this post and previous and simply think, oh wow this guy has to go. Gimmie a break..

I think the OP is basically saying what a lot have felt. Craig is not being effective and part of it is the communication end. I know a lot of you feel like without Craig at the helm this game would be worse. I beg to ask how. About 95% of copies sold are not subscribed, and this game has never been less effective at bring in new players and keeping older ones. Everything is coming in the next patch at all times and those are 3-4 months away. The fact that they are developing an expansion at all with the lack of proper operation of every component of the original is pathetic. Were here to help them understand that. For an organization Funcom is very good at using the mouth not so good at using the ears and even worse at using the brain.

The simple fact that you guys are trying to push the fact that because the game doesn't have a massive amount of subscribers and that people left for the same reasons of you it is ok to lump the game in the fail bucket. Your wrong in my opinion. You're reasons might very well be valid and just but using the above to try and justify it is wrong.

Just because religion 'A' or mmorpg 'A' has X amount of subscribers makes it fun, right or worthy. By the same token just because religion 'Z' or mmorpg 'Z' does not have 'A's numbers doesn't make it not have these things either. Why do people chose A or Z? Why do some people fail to see all the other letters in the alphabet? Using sub numbers to re-inforce a decision either way, that suits your own opinion on matters lessens points made not strengthens in my opinion. Your putting points across without backing them up.

It isn't about the exact numbers or the numbers even in a general sense its the trend, a steady downward declining spiral after a drastic catastropic loss of subscriptions brought on in part by bugs, a bad launch, and then imploding servers. Today we are on the verge of seeing more once active servers also imploding. This is an MMO, MMOs rely on stable or growing subscriber bases not decling populations. Nobody wants to play the game alone.

What was it Craig said? "It seems that it isn't ok to disagree anymore. If you don't share an opinion then you are wrong"?

Trying to lump things as "Black" and "White" and not understanding there is a middle ground which Craig did point out is called "Common ground" is just not wanting to take the blinkers off. I definately think some people here refuse to take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture just because they can't bring themselves to see things differently or maybe they just don't want to. Whose knows, I just know that some people here have an opinion that theirs and the outlook is that it is the only opinion that matters, it is right, no matter what anyone says, but they ignore reason. This is the exact Black and White situation that Craig is talking about in his blog.

If you are saying black and white was a bad analogy because they are polar opposites in terms of color, or that I was making a racial overtone get lost. I was using chess as an analogy and informing folks who may not have played just like I've never played parcheesi that the game has black and white pieces. Avery if you can't be bothered to read what a person writes before you respond to it maybe you shouldn't be responding without an educated idea of just what the hell you are talking about. How can even  your opinion be of any value when you don't know what it is because you don't know what you are talking about? 

Simply put it is a refusal to see things another way. Just like the guy in the blog who brought the topic up essentially in the first place.

Craig says; "there are many that seem to think the best way to argue for their opinion is to detract from the other opinion rather then to support their own, and whenever their particular interest isn't the focus to complain about the others being pointless because they don't personally share that preference."

Craig is overseeing a dying project and trying to stay positive while being clueless about what mechanics need change irregardless of how "painful" it might be for the database. During his watch the game fell from 400k+ subscribers to under 80k after having sold 1.2 million copies, sure it was on steep decline only aggravated by his slow decision to rapidly implement server merges or character transfers of which I remind you are available for one character only per account and at a charge of $20. $20 for a copy and paste operation you tell me whos borking who? 

Have we not seen both sides of this in the thread already? We have the chat regards to location you are, government types and the change again to suggesting people will be fired and employment changes. Is this the Black and White Craig means? have a think about that for a minute.

Craig never said Black and White I did. Get off your soap box and read the fucking page.

I really think that in the opening post Blackwell just goes whole hog for the extreme, trying to justify a blog by the game director of a game that Blackwell doesn't play and really, really, really, dislikes to suit his own opinion. This is an opinion carry forward in nearly all posts here. Of course he is entitled to that opinion and those things I just said are completely recognised and at the same time I can respect that opinion but laughably disagree with the premise the post was made upon and well pretty much everything else that came after. This is just a point of course, we can share opinions and it is ok to disagree and keep on topic.

I have scope to read into the Common Ground though, it is not all "Black"...."Well". When we talk Age of Conan it is constructive feedback that devs rely upon. This is to better the game for the players and community. If you want to be a part of a community but not be a player than respect is needed for both sides. In fact I think the first part of that last sentance is idiotic if that non player has no interest in being constructive.

Were the game improved you would have many people who were non-players following the soap opera saga of AOC who would be interested in returning, paying for it and enjoying it if the right changes were made. Problem is CM is in charge of the titanic and shes going down.

You guys have that "scope" too. So what about the people that play the game and enjoy it, is it too hard to respect that is their decision and premise? Why does everything have to conform to that Black or White opinion and then have no common ground or acknowledgement. Why does it have to be about subs ignore the fact that there are plenty of people out there enjoying the game as it is? Of course everyone has an opinion about changing things for the better.

Why is it time for a change Blackwell? (as you said in your first post) Do you really have a secret passion for Age of Conan? Or is it that it is widely regarded that Craig has done a good job for the game. I am just curious. Lord B is obviously passionate that he felt that all of his requests to the developers have not been implemented in the way he sees fit (thats ok to feel like that) doesn't mean to say you was not heard. Sure it is ok to put across points, and I am not arguing on the whole that what Lord B is saying is not right, just the way he goes about it. just like last fall with the fail blog post and another 6 months paid up later same thing again. There are things called priorities though, and the people who make the game are paid to get those in order based on collected feedback and sometimes those particular things might not be top of the list. Any scope to understand that?

I started giving feedback directly and on the forums, via the surveys, and messages, collecting data when I had a guild, by the way Avery I didn't kill my guild, this game did, that's what happens when you lose people at a rate of 30 per day from your guild alone because the game is crashing and  burning, and that's what happens when 95% of those who tried the game don't still play. Anyway of the feedback I've given, suggestions made they have done 2 things, fixed stability which any genius would have done with or without feedback, and 2 they fixed the NPC vendor at the Trader. Of the dozens of other things I suggested

Plenty of people like the game for what it is, a game. Plenty of people play the game and like it a lot. Plenty of people played the game and didn't like it. Plenty of people played the game liked it and left because they wanted more.

About 5% of those who have tried it still subscribe I'll be generous and say 6% liked it but some had to do other things.

Funcom obviously likes feedback from always asking for constructive feedback, sending out surveys and publically asking people. Advocate program is place is a good example. Pages and pages of feedback have been given and acted on collated from the community and delievered on to the desks of those making each part of the game (or most, so far).

I think this thread proves what Craig said in the blog:

"If you speak to players about what they would most like to see from developers it is almost inevitably more communication; and that is something I strongly believe in. However much of the will and motivation for doing so can be drained by the behaviour like that described above. In many ways if the developer feels that they just can't win on any given topic they are less likely to interact. They feel that way because rather than wanting to engage on the topics that can be discussed or when they want to ask questions they can find themselves on the defensive about things that shouldn't even need defending."

(Can they meet you half way Lord B? any room for that?, or you agree should be fired for doing (the possibility) for more important updates that may not be to your liking, but to the bigger pictures?)

I can live without a bigger bank because I'm living without the game. However it still is a nail in the coffin just like DX10 was for so long, voice overs not being complete. One thing that is completely necessary is Guild Management Rights, Being able to participate in Sieges without owning a T3 Keep, because 75% of guilds now don't and will never make it to T3 before this game shuts down. The whole concept of driving players to harvest for hours a day to build these battle keeps is pretty lame.

Yes or not situation brought up, no room for common ground given by the OP, no room for discussion. When I read here ont eh boards it is apparently it is all 80k subs, fail devs, Xfire says this, population on servers are this, failed in job, murder system failed. You think FC want to come communicate when there is no room for manouver? Let alone no proof that this, this and this is accurate.

The Murder system is a complete and total failure. It was designed to give consequences to stem some ganking. Does neither. Consequences are as trivial as a parking ticket with monopoly money. What does it matter if it costs you $50 instead of $25 to fill up your potions for a run when you have $Millions in the bank?

Bravo for Craig to sticking to his guns and interjecting and communicating with the community and having an opinion on balance and PVP and PvE and then having someone digress with a sentance that doesn't help them in any way. (reason in blog was mentioned)

Nice to see him sally forth from the Cubicle and communicate with us heavens yes, instead of sending Lord Onion to bullshit us about how there isn't "Tons of new content (i.e. fat) in the Whopper." I'm more than willing to meet half way compromise or consider there are more important things. I understand that. However stability isn't something that should be touted, it should be a basic design expectation from the beginning. Same with 99%-100% uptime and working sieges. This crashing 1/3-2/3 of the time is Bullshit! Famine said it would cause database problems by doubling the guild bank size. Oh no. So add more servers you know, satisify the customers or they leave which is what the majority have already done.

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Today we are on the verge of seeing more once active servers also imploding.

What servers are you refering to?

If you are saying black and white was a bad analogy because they are polar opposites in terms of color, or that I was making a racial overtone get lost. I was using chess as an analogy and informing folks who may not have played just like I've never played parcheesi that the game has black and white pieces. Avery if you can't be bothered to read what a person writes before you respond to it maybe you shouldn't be responding without an educated idea of just what the hell you are talking about. How can even  your opinion be of any value when you don't know what it is because you don't know what you are talking about? 

OK(?)

Craig is overseeing a dying project

Not true

 

Craig never said Black and White I did. Get off your soap box and read the fucking page.

OK

Were the game improved you would have many people who were non-players following the soap opera saga of AOC who would be interested in returning, paying for it and enjoying it if the right changes were made. Problem is CM is in charge of the titanic and shes going down.

Very dramatic, but no, not sinking or dying

I started giving feedback directly and on the forums, via the surveys, and messages, collecting data when I had a guild, by the way Avery I didn't kill my guild, this game did, that's what happens when you lose people at a rate of 30 per day from your guild alone because the game is crashing and  burning, and that's what happens when 95% of those who tried the game don't still play. Anyway of the feedback I've given, suggestions made they have done 2 things, fixed stability which any genius would have done with or without feedback, and 2 they fixed the NPC vendor at the Trader. Of the dozens of other things I suggested

What?! 30 per day. That's fast. Not even when I have read about a guild that quit, did they really quit at a rate of 30 per day.

I can live without a bigger bank because I'm living without the game. However it still is a nail in the coffin just like DX10 was for so long, voice overs not being complete. One thing that is completely necessary is Guild Management Rights, Being able to participate in Sieges without owning a T3 Keep, because 75% of guilds now don't and will never make it to T3 before this game shuts down. The whole concept of driving players to harvest for hours a day to build these battle keeps is pretty lame.

A bigger guild bank is ofc a good thing for large guilds, and DX 10 is implemented. Nail in the coffin? Nahh

The Murder system is a complete and total failure. It was designed to give consequences to stem some ganking. Does neither. Consequences are as trivial as a parking ticket with monopoly money. What does it matter if it costs you $50 instead of $25 to fill up your potions for a run when you have $Millions in the bank?

Yes, you will still have ganking on a PvP FFA-game. Some people think there shouldn't be any 'punishment' for ganking (being a PvP FFA game), some feel there should be more.

Nice to see him sally forth from the Cubicle and communicate with us heavens yes, instead of sending Lord Onion to bullshit us about how there isn't "Tons of new content (i.e. fat) in the Whopper." I'm more than willing to meet half way compromise or consider there are more important things. I understand that. However stability isn't something that should be touted, it should be a basic design expectation from the beginning. Same with 99%-100% uptime and working sieges. This crashing 1/3-2/3 of the time is Bullshit! Famine said it would cause database problems by doubling the guild bank size. Oh no. So add more servers you know, satisify the customers or they leave which is what the majority have already done.

Add more servers? Didn't you just claim that former active servers were dying?

Close to 900k bought this game, and many left in dissapointment, me being one of them. This is probably one of the reasons you find so many strong opinions on this game.

Since then It's improved to the point of being close to the game it was hyped to be, and has a stable population of around 100k. It will probably stay somewhere between 100k-150k, at least until Xpac, and if FC plays it right it can get a boost to subs above that.

It wll never be an wow-killer, but an alternative to cartoonish full fantasy games, for the more casual gamer.

Originally posted by Aceundor

 I have no idea how Blackwell arrives at the conclusion that he does, it just proves CMs point that the community is black or white, I read it like a constructive open post from the GM where he discusses the game community in general. 

 

Well, what really liked from the discussion was this entry by CM :

Hopefully I don't come across as too defensive, and we are working hard on the content. I think the fundamentals of the challenges we now face are a little different and bring with them some different elements in the communication.

You see, up until recently everyone was almost universally in agreement as to what needed addressed with the game most importantly. First everyone agreed on performance needing to improve and the memory leaks crushed, done. Then people agreed that the PVP of the game needed some basic direction, we addressed that. Then they agreed the content gaps needed addressed, hence Ymir's pass and new quests etc, then they almost all agreed we needed to do something we the RPG system, and that was done.

Which leads us to now. Now that those basics have been addressed and we are in a more stable position people start to have different opinions about what is required. Some want more raids, some want more PVP systems, some want more group content, some want more solo content, some want more loot...and all of those concerns are completely valid, and all are acknowledged. What we can't do though is address them all at once, which means the new challenge is in communicating that in an environment where people are slightly more impatient and want more. It is ok to want more, but we do have to point out that things still need to be prioritised and that your favorite thing might not be 'next' but it will come.

 

This means that all the launch problems (yes the game was launched half finished), have been adressed. Now its the standard "nerf rock, paper or sissor" discussion and "add more content im bored". Of course there are as many solutions that there are players to this. 

Have sieges then been fixed?  Or is it just a different kind of broken than at launch?

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Today we are on the verge of seeing more once active servers also imploding.

What servers are you refering to?

If you are saying black and white was a bad analogy because they are polar opposites in terms of color, or that I was making a racial overtone get lost. I was using chess as an analogy and informing folks who may not have played just like I've never played parcheesi that the game has black and white pieces. Avery if you can't be bothered to read what a person writes before you respond to it maybe you shouldn't be responding without an educated idea of just what the hell you are talking about. How can even  your opinion be of any value when you don't know what it is because you don't know what you are talking about? 

OK(?)

Craig is overseeing a dying project

Not true

 

Craig never said Black and White I did. Get off your soap box and read the fucking page.

OK

Were the game improved you would have many people who were non-players following the soap opera saga of AOC who would be interested in returning, paying for it and enjoying it if the right changes were made. Problem is CM is in charge of the titanic and shes going down.

Very dramatic, but no, not sinking or dying

I started giving feedback directly and on the forums, via the surveys, and messages, collecting data when I had a guild, by the way Avery I didn't kill my guild, this game did, that's what happens when you lose people at a rate of 30 per day from your guild alone because the game is crashing and  burning, and that's what happens when 95% of those who tried the game don't still play. Anyway of the feedback I've given, suggestions made they have done 2 things, fixed stability which any genius would have done with or without feedback, and 2 they fixed the NPC vendor at the Trader. Of the dozens of other things I suggested

What?! 30 per day. That's fast. Not even when I have read about a guild that quit, did they really quit at a rate of 30 per day.

I can live without a bigger bank because I'm living without the game. However it still is a nail in the coffin just like DX10 was for so long, voice overs not being complete. One thing that is completely necessary is Guild Management Rights, Being able to participate in Sieges without owning a T3 Keep, because 75% of guilds now don't and will never make it to T3 before this game shuts down. The whole concept of driving players to harvest for hours a day to build these battle keeps is pretty lame.

A bigger guild bank is ofc a good thing for large guilds, and DX 10 is implemented. Nail in the coffin? Nahh

The Murder system is a complete and total failure. It was designed to give consequences to stem some ganking. Does neither. Consequences are as trivial as a parking ticket with monopoly money. What does it matter if it costs you $50 instead of $25 to fill up your potions for a run when you have $Millions in the bank?

Yes, you will still have ganking on a PvP FFA-game. Some people think there shouldn't be any 'punishment' for ganking (being a PvP FFA game), some feel there should be more.

Nice to see him sally forth from the Cubicle and communicate with us heavens yes, instead of sending Lord Onion to bullshit us about how there isn't "Tons of new content (i.e. fat) in the Whopper." I'm more than willing to meet half way compromise or consider there are more important things. I understand that. However stability isn't something that should be touted, it should be a basic design expectation from the beginning. Same with 99%-100% uptime and working sieges. This crashing 1/3-2/3 of the time is Bullshit! Famine said it would cause database problems by doubling the guild bank size. Oh no. So add more servers you know, satisify the customers or they leave which is what the majority have already done.

Add more servers? Didn't you just claim that former active servers were dying?

 

Close to 900k bought this game, and many left in dissapointment, me being one of them. This is probably one of the reasons you find so many strong opinions on this game.

Since then It's improved to the point of being close to the game it was hyped to be, and has a stable population of around 100k. It will probably stay somewhere between 100k-150k, at least until Xpac, and if FC plays it right it can get a boost to subs above that.

It wll never be an wow-killer, but an alternative to cartoonish full fantasy games, for the more casual gamer.

You say the ship isn't sinking but point me to one dev that came out and bashed their player base in any way shape or form who was in charge of an actually healthy game you are not going to find it just the Smeds, Torres' and so on guys synonomous with games certainly on the decline.
 

Originally posted by jaxsundane

You say the ship isn't sinking but point me to one dev that came out and bashed their player base in any way shape or form who was in charge of an actually healthy game you are not going to find it just the Smeds, Torres' and so on guys synonomous with games certainly on the decline.
 

Does not compute.

Seriously, mate, I don't get what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Today we are on the verge of seeing more once active servers also imploding.

What servers are you refering to?

Servers have a critical mass point, below that level they start to undergo a rapid exodus of players, based on the past mass decline in populations, the majority of players who are faced with the decision to play on a dying server simply quit, those who stay with the game go to another server by starting a new character, if it is as low population as the previous they also quit. With the option to move your character for $20 some people might but the majority will not because that service is too costly for what you get.

If you are saying black and white was a bad analogy because they are polar opposites in terms of color, or that I was making a racial overtone get lost. I was using chess as an analogy and informing folks who may not have played just like I've never played parcheesi that the game has black and white pieces. Avery if you can't be bothered to read what a person writes before you respond to it maybe you shouldn't be responding without an educated idea of just what the hell you are talking about. How can even  your opinion be of any value when you don't know what it is because you don't know what you are talking about? 

OK(?)

I was talking to Avery who suggested that It was Craig who said "black or white" and then also implied I was making a racially charged argument. Craig did not say "black or white" Craig said right or wrong, and yes we understand the concept of middle ground. A lot of their decision making has been correct, but the pace of improving things is TOO SLOW, and on the other hand a lot of their prioritization has been subpar. The examples I provided were comparisons between chess and AOC and how players who received a chess game with missing pieces and advantages for one team over the other would feel. About 95% of those players would simply choose not to play just like we see in AOC.

Craig is overseeing a dying project

Not true

Like hell it is not. This game has been on life support since November of last year. Their companies stock is in the shitter and they are hemoraging staff. A lot of that has to do with their decisions with AOC from launch and post-launch. Were AOC strong and vibrant they wouldn't be talking expansions or pouring resources into it while the flagship live product still has mutiple areas which are incomplete and lacking what the consumers of the product want it in. Fully Functional DX10, Sieges, etc.

Craig never said Black and White I did. Get off your soap box and read the fucking page.

OK

Were the game improved you would have many people who were non-players following the soap opera saga of AOC who would be interested in returning, paying for it and enjoying it if the right changes were made. Problem is CM is in charge of the titanic and shes going down.

Very dramatic, but no, not sinking or dying

Have a look at Alexa.com buzz tracking of AOC. They are steadily loosing ground despite offering free trials yet again and marketing the hell out of the game and with the buzz of an expansion. Game over is within 6-12 months.

I started giving feedback directly and on the forums, via the surveys, and messages, collecting data when I had a guild, by the way Avery I didn't kill my guild, this game did, that's what happens when you lose people at a rate of 30 per day from your guild alone because the game is crashing and  burning, and that's what happens when 95% of those who tried the game don't still play. Anyway of the feedback I've given, suggestions made they have done 2 things, fixed stability which any genius would have done with or without feedback, and 2 they fixed the NPC vendor at the Trader. Of the dozens of other things I suggested

What?! 30 per day. That's fast. Not even when I have read about a guild that quit, did they really quit at a rate of 30 per day.

At our peak in early August 2008 we were recruiting about 10 new members each day 24 hours a day, and loosing 30 members a day. This reflected the steep and serious decline in activity and populations and market server implosions because of the critical mass factor inherent in the game design. 80 levels, hundreds of hours of harvesting, people unable to find other players at their levels for groups etc. We were able to track this because of the neat feature in the guild list, which showed last log in of players and we were able to order the list by days. When players hit the last log in of 30 days I had to remove them from the guild, at the worst of it I was doing that at a rate of 30/day. By October our guild had fallen from 600 characters to 189 when I quit, and the server had imploded. It can happen again because the mechanics have not changed and it will happen again because the conditions are favorable, i.e. populations on a steady decline.

I can live without a bigger bank because I'm living without the game. However it still is a nail in the coffin just like DX10 was for so long, voice overs not being complete. One thing that is completely necessary is Guild Management Rights, Being able to participate in Sieges without owning a T3 Keep, because 75% of guilds now don't and will never make it to T3 before this game shuts down. The whole concept of driving players to harvest for hours a day to build these battle keeps is pretty lame.

A bigger guild bank is ofc a good thing for large guilds, and DX 10 is implemented. Nail in the coffin? Nahh

85-90% of players are interested in Siege. It is one of two things that really can be done at level 80, endgame. However on any given server only about 15-25% can participate because of siege blocking and the limited number of battlekeeps because of the poor game design which has gone unrectified. This drives players away. When Sieges don't work and crash this also drives players away.

The Murder system is a complete and total failure. It was designed to give consequences to stem some ganking. Does neither. Consequences are as trivial as a parking ticket with monopoly money. What does it matter if it costs you $50 instead of $25 to fill up your potions for a run when you have $Millions in the bank?

Yes, you will still have ganking on a PvP FFA-game. Some people think there shouldn't be any 'punishment' for ganking (being a PvP FFA game), some feel there should be more.

Fine, no punishment then remove the fucking guards. The problem for PVE servers is they sometimes cause unintentional deaths and distractions, on PVP servers the AI is dumber than a rock and attacks the wrong player at times and can be exploited by crafty players. Bottomline the system does not work to prevent ganking or griefing and ruins the exprience for players. We really ought to have any system but the one that exists.

Nice to see him sally forth from the Cubicle and communicate with us heavens yes, instead of sending Lord Onion to bullshit us about how there isn't "Tons of new content (i.e. fat) in the Whopper." I'm more than willing to meet half way compromise or consider there are more important things. I understand that. However stability isn't something that should be touted, it should be a basic design expectation from the beginning. Same with 99%-100% uptime and working sieges. This crashing 1/3-2/3 of the time is Bullshit! Famine said it would cause database problems by doubling the guild bank size. Oh no. So add more servers you know, satisify the customers or they leave which is what the majority have already done.

Add more servers? Didn't you just claim that former active servers were dying?

I don't mean add more servers for people to play on I mean add more servers on their backend operation to provide storage and throughput for their database. DUH!. Of course we don't want to thin out populations anymore with the fact that the servers implode like a house of cards when the population levels reach a certain point. Adding more bankspace has been requested thousands of times but there are also other things which have been requested thousands, tens-of thousands of times and in 18 months they haven't gotten around to doing jack shit about it.

 

Close to 900k bought this game, and many left in dissapointment, me being one of them. This is probably one of the reasons you find so many strong opinions on this game.

Since then It's improved to the point of being close to the game it was hyped to be, and has a stable population of around 100k. It will probably stay somewhere between 100k-150k, at least until Xpac, and if FC plays it right it can get a boost to subs above that.

It wll never be an wow-killer, but an alternative to cartoonish full fantasy games, for the more casual gamer.

If by 900k you mean 1.2 Million then you'd be correct. The population is also in decline by any measurement. Measure the xfire numbers, they didn't all the sudden start crashing and become null and void. They also reported a huge loss on their balance sheets at FC, alexa has AOC buzz way down, the free trials round 1 were a total flop managing to keep only about 1:20 who tried them subscribed and many of those already subed to end their subs after the trials. Were they not trying desperately to bring this game back from the point of no return we wouldn't see flash ads everywhere online, and there wouldn't be a new free trial. There would be steady word of mouth and buzz by real players not their marketing shills and real legitimate excitement about

This game isn't going to kill wow anymore than Craig is going to cure cancer in the expansion pack.

For starters what is it Craig should have done? I see all this criticism of him personally, yet not much in the form of conversation. Just random flaming back and forth. What miracle could he perform here to transform this game into something those who hate it want? Because you know that's just not going to happen. It doesn't matter who is in charge, the basic game is going to stay as is. Unless of course it goes free to play, that's only a change in billing however.

I get it some people just don't like it when a service provider provides their opinion. However this was on a personal blog afterall was it not? When you work hard on something you do so out of passion. To say this guy didn't want to deliver or hasn't tried is uninformed at best or disingenuous at worst. Sorry there's no way to look at this thread without seeing an agenda outside of warning the consumer (or fighting for them). The true consumer here is the one paying for the product, the only way to fight for them is to provide actual feedback that can be used to better the game. Firing yet another director or forcing them out isn't the answer to that, that's for sure.

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