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10/07/09 10:51:45 AM#41
Originally posted by spinach8puff Yeah, it only took the MMORPG industry more than 10 years and the recent failures of their founding fathers like Brad McQuaid, Gaute Godager, Mark Jacobs and Richard Garriottt, that's all. And yet we still have some in the community whining that modern MMORPGs should be more like the hardcore game in the past. It's like asking car companies for the return of the Model-T automobile. For all it's flaws WoW showed the MMORPG industry that it didn't have to a niche market that only appealed to hardcores who were wiling to pay for tedious, timesink game mechanics. The online market is larger than anyone imagined and it's only going to grow. And that's not going to grow by tapping into the hardcore market which has already showed its severe limits in the decade pre-WoW. The old-school MMORPG designers had their chance to try and make games for this market. Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammerand Tabula Rasa ranged from being utter failures to just mediocre. The MMORPG community needs to figure out that companies with any brains are not going to be looking to the games of the past as examples for their future games.
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10/07/09 11:00:40 AM#42
I had alot of fun playing WoW so I don't hate it simply because I grew bored of it. For me unfortionately nothing Blizz does with WoW in the future will make me return. WoW is so old and stale now I can hardly stand to even look at screenshots of it...lol "Mom, I play Tera for the gameplay I swear!!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2paFdRw_U |
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10/07/09 11:33:16 AM#43
Originally posted by AkumaDaimyo Right cause I meant who cares about content, fun, playability or any of that crap as long as the graphics are good! Fail. Flashy visuals do not a good MMO make.
From what do you conclude that I don't care about fun, content and playability? I just find it curious that someone would claim that fancy graphics has nothing to do with gaming. |
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10/07/09 11:53:39 AM#44
Originally posted by Wizardry
LOL graphics has EVERYTHING to do with quality,that is what brings the game to life.If it was just text based and mechanics with no graphics it would be dull and boring. The quality part is a debate as cheap is not really considered to be quality imo anyhow.If you went to buy a coffee table,would cal la veneer top quality? or would the natural cherry wood grain finish be considered quality?again this leads back to visual.I hope i made the point clear enough. No i am also fair i realize wow has lots of mechanics and lots of maps and lots of different battles and variety in classes. The graphics were ONLY done to cater to their already fanbase and the ease of creating the game.This also is why they used the cheap game engine,they went for the cheap approach,the easiest way to get a game out.Nothing in the creation of wow was planned to make a solid game for the user,they went with what they knew from EQ and what they already had. Ok now here is my other beef.The community,ok that is not Blizzard's fault,except when you cater to the warcraft crowd using the same graphics ,you ARE catering to kids.My biggest beef is in the way Blizzard has transpired over the years.Ok they made a cheap version of Eq fine,that is what they had to go with ,so they did their best.They figured to make up for the lack of game versus EQ,they would offer easier leveling and bigger rewards for doing the simplest quests.So in essence they were BRIBING their fanbase.I can see it, the kids need pampering. Ok it does not end there.After years of making millions,it is about time Blizzard stepped up and delivered their game back to the customers who made them rich.Step up and re do the textures,other games have done it ,Blizzard most certainly could do it. Why ?because looking at a tree with a terrible looking bark texture ruins the atmosphere for me.Why? because looking at rock and it looks like one big texture pasted onto the side of one big brush ,loses everything for me,it just looks bad and fake.Personally i think Blizzard did not know they would be a success,this has come back to bite them.Their game engine is soooo cheap their hands are tied for turning the game into anything good looking.Their payroll and staff is SOoooo huge they can't afford to do anything for the game,that they cannot sell to it's customer. In the end ,if i want to see a better designed WOW,i look to EQ2,and i have been there in both games.The ONLY way WOW could ever become a good QUALITY game is to redo it with a better game engine and better textures and proper lighting and use of shaders.As is i fails in almost every area of QUALITY.
You sir are an idiot. Graphics are not the make all end all of any game, it's a contributing factor but gameplay is the single most important aspect of any game. If things like textures bother you then stop fucking playing video games pure and simple. Secondly blizzard makes over $5 billion a year if you think they're broke I second the you are an idiot. 12 million times $15 is $180,000,000 a month then you have expansions, faction/realm changes, blizzard store crap and w/e else. So get real man seriously. Blizzard doesn't make a game that they wouldn't think would be a success, in fact ANY business does not develop or manufacture shit it doesn't think will make them serious money. Where's your common sense? Blizzard's hands aren't tied at all, but why would they want to recreate a game that is almost over? They are more concerned about the release of their new mmo. If they turned around and gave us all the bells and whistles then what would they be able to offer us in the next game? Also not everyone can afford to run top notch graphics, wow is good for catering to people with a lower budget computer you might not be able to explore all content but you can explore most even with the shittiest computer. Wow's game engine is completely fine, it's been around for 5 years and has dominated every damn mmo made. You can't do that with a broken game. Blizzard doesn't bribe their fanbase, they only cater to what they want. People wanted realm and faction transfers so blizz offered it at a price. People wanted game cards so they didn't need a credit card, blizzard let it happen. Most of the mmo world do not have time to play hardcore and wanted a more casual raiding experience, blizzard offered that too. Everything the majority of players wanted they got. It's common business practice, you cater to your customers and they will continue to give you their money end of story. They don't care about the little guy, and why should they? They fail with quality? I guess 12 million people are wrong with what they chose as quality. You sir need to learn how to research and actually have a clue wtf you're talking about. Stop trying to troll and get your head out of your ass and learn to have fun. |
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10/07/09 12:53:02 PM#45
Originally posted by karat76
aren't they doing just that? And one man. |
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10/07/09 10:39:44 PM#46
I do give Blizzard the top seat when it comes to WoW overall quality and customer support; no other gaming company I've dealt with sets as high a standard and does it's best to live up to it. Certainly I'm not thrilled with every little change that has come along in WoW, but the game has imo become better than it was, from story lines to graphics and sound. More ways of advancing are open to more people than ever before. However, the cry for real quality in quest chains and rewards had fallen of deaf ears, for the most part. WotLK did improve the story line quality of the quests, overall, but they were no more challenging, and some of the re-visiting of the same areas to do different quests was abysmal. I'm talking particularly the Zul'Drak area. Time and time again we go to the same place, have to kill the same mobs, one quest after the other because it is impossible to do them all at once. They are pretty much grind-level quests too - kill x number of mobs, gather x number loot. Blizzard takes a new world full of interesting content and makes it dull by providing insipid quest chains - and, at the beginning of WotLK, forces you to wait until L77 and spend another 1K gold to be able to fly again.
Better quests, and a bigger world too. MMOs are just too small these days, the world can be explored in hours and it should take weeks, or months. I know we live in an "instant gratification" society, but where the effort to please all gamers hurts the experience of the more dedicated (or just the one with more time to play in the short term) is where quality is adveresely effected. This too is happening in WoW. Overall though, yes, the devs are doing a great job and I'm excited about Cataclysm. Thanks Blizzard, and keep up the good work! Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall |
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10/08/09 1:57:48 AM#47
You're never going to get everyone to like your game... but hey, for the hardcores, there's still 25 man raids, and there are heroic modes of various other dungeons which are pretty hard. Blizzard is trying to cater to everyone, so it's natural some people are going to feel put out - sorry they aren't just catering for one group (pvpers, pve-ers, explorers, achievement whores, etc. etc.) - but this seems to be a pretty good strategy. Everyone gets like, a 7/10 experience, on average, and that's what Blizzard wants, because aiming for any one group moreso than others would make some people have a 2/10, and 10/10 experience, and despite the raving good reviews from the 10/10 group, the bad rep from those scorned with their 2/10 experience isn't worth it to them. But the 7/10 gameplay coupled with a good, solid game engine core with nice (if a little dated) graphics, the game does pretty well for itself. If they updated the graphics to something that most computers nowadays can run (you know, like, triple the current polygons, quadruple the texture size (256x256 -> 512x512 = 4x total), and hell keep the current animations (they are DAMN good) and they'd have themselves a good chance against the current Aion newbies. That said, it'd take a lot of investment to create all that new artwork, including server fees again (downloading what, a 10GB patch for 11 million players? Daaang) But it'd be pretty nice to log into a game that looks current-gen. I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much. You all need to learn to spell. |
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10/08/09 8:27:18 AM#48
Originally posted by Blazz A fresh download of Champions online and similar is only like 2-3GB and that have brad new artwork not just updated ones, a graphics update should be like 700 meg at most. |
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10/09/09 3:46:58 PM#49
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
I'd agree, but WoW isn't fun.
Perhaps not to you. But I've been in since late beta, and while I get bored and wander off once in a while. Its a fun game all the way to level cap, and I keep going back once they add new content. |
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10/09/09 4:02:40 PM#50
Originally posted by Wizardry
LOL graphics has EVERYTHING to do with quality,that is what brings the game to life.If it was just text based and mechanics with no graphics it would be dull and boring. The quality part is a debate as cheap is not really considered to be quality imo anyhow.If you went to buy a coffee table,would cal la veneer top quality? or would the natural cherry wood grain finish be considered quality?again this leads back to visual.I hope i made the point clear enough. No i am also fair i realize wow has lots of mechanics and lots of maps and lots of different battles and variety in classes. The graphics were ONLY done to cater to their already fanbase and the ease of creating the game.This also is why they used the cheap game engine,they went for the cheap approach,the easiest way to get a game out.Nothing in the creation of wow was planned to make a solid game for the user,they went with what they knew from EQ and what they already had. Ok now here is my other beef.The community,ok that is not Blizzard's fault,except when you cater to the warcraft crowd using the same graphics ,you ARE catering to kids.My biggest beef is in the way Blizzard has transpired over the years.Ok they made a cheap version of Eq fine,that is what they had to go with ,so they did their best.They figured to make up for the lack of game versus EQ,they would offer easier leveling and bigger rewards for doing the simplest quests.So in essence they were BRIBING their fanbase.I can see it, the kids need pampering. Ok it does not end there.After years of making millions,it is about time Blizzard stepped up and delivered their game back to the customers who made them rich.Step up and re do the textures,other games have done it ,Blizzard most certainly could do it. Why ?because looking at a tree with a terrible looking bark texture ruins the atmosphere for me.Why? because looking at rock and it looks like one big texture pasted onto the side of one big brush ,loses everything for me,it just looks bad and fake.Personally i think Blizzard did not know they would be a success,this has come back to bite them.Their game engine is soooo cheap their hands are tied for turning the game into anything good looking.Their payroll and staff is SOoooo huge they can't afford to do anything for the game,that they cannot sell to it's customer. In the end ,if i want to see a better designed WOW,i look to EQ2,and i have been there in both games.The ONLY way WOW could ever become a good QUALITY game is to redo it with a better game engine and better textures and proper lighting and use of shaders.As is i fails in almost every area of QUALITY.
Well... Having played EQ2, while its certainly pretty in places, I'll take WoW's armor and weapons over EQ2 any day of the week. Not to mention that WoW will run on a much larger section of the installed hardware base than EQ2 will(epsecially when it launched). The animations in EQ2 seemed rather stiff(look at the flying griffin as an example). I suspect you are using the word "quality" in a rather subjective fashion. First and foremost WoW is *fun* to me. It also seems to be fun to many millions of other people around the world. While there are a lot of Bnet battle kiddies in WoW, looking down ones nose at the WoW community(such as it is) is neither helpful, nor profitable... |
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10/10/09 11:26:18 AM#51
Is it just me or was this article really poorly written with many grammatical errors? Also, the sentences were awkward. |
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10/11/09 1:14:42 PM#52
no it wasn't just you, i just logged in to say "umm... proof read?" I could barely read this; it's very sloppy with poor, almost unexistant transitions. |
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Wrender
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/03/04
The truth shall set you free! |
10/11/09 8:18:59 PM#53
Originally posted by Stuckov ahh I like how you state that as fact :). I have fun playing WoW... does that make me wierd? I mean I must be if I find it fun when it is not... Pretty sure the rest of the millions of players are weird too what kind of a normal person pays money to play a non fun game... Lets just say that what is fun for you may not be fun for me and what is fun for millions of players is not fun for you :) there we do agree, but your statement is not fact. Its just an opinion.
Weird?? Hell the whole world is weird these days. That is why wow has so many subs. WOW was good back in the day but has since went downhill. I played it for bout 2 years and quit for good. Since realized there are far better games out there. ANd don't even get me started on the community. WOW has the worst! ... Well next to Asmodian Communities in AION. Oh wait...that's where most of the WOW rejects have went! Nevermind. |
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10/13/09 7:18:13 AM#54
Every time i read forums on most mmo sites, i see many people whining about how WoW sux and stuff. Yeah, WoW gfx sux if u turned down all ur gfx settings and ur loading wil be slow if u have a sucky PC. I know i will get FLAMED really really bad by saying so. Getting 80 is very easy and gearing up to 2/5T9 3/5T9 will take u a month or so if u dont have time. If u quit WoW long time ago or whatever, dont brag about it and let it be like a real man. If u dont play WoW, leave WoW alone and go play ur fancy gfx Korean/Chinese mmo. Yeah, they are fun. What u really needa do is sit back relax and think if it is fair to be harsh to fellow gamers who plays WoW just bcos u dont play and thinks its sh*t? Even if ur biatching about it, most of WoW playing dont have time to bother bcos we have jobs and we don't go to forums just to bad mouth about other games I was a effing WoW hater back then like the rest of you are now. yeah. I thought and said WoW's for efftards & nerds and stuff. WoW has no creativity.etc u know what. WoW is far better than many mmorpgs ive ever played (both f2p and p2p). We all have our choices to choose which to play, dont we? Yeah, we chose WoW because it fits out playing style .etc
HOLY SH*T ! FLAME INC !!! Playing WoW |
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10/13/09 7:37:17 AM#55
Originally posted by Wrender ahh I like how you state that as fact :). I have fun playing WoW... does that make me wierd? I mean I must be if I find it fun when it is not... Pretty sure the rest of the millions of players are weird too what kind of a normal person pays money to play a non fun game... Lets just say that what is fun for you may not be fun for me and what is fun for millions of players is not fun for you :) there we do agree, but your statement is not fact. Its just an opinion.
Weird?? Hell the whole world is weird these days. That is why wow has so many subs. WOW was good back in the day but has since went downhill. I played it for bout 2 years and quit for good. Since realized there are far better games out there. ANd don't even get me started on the community. WOW has the worst! ... Well next to Asmodian Communities in AION. Oh wait...that's where most of the WOW rejects have went! Nevermind.
You know, I'd wondered where all of the Hordies went to... |
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I doubt one would find a game company that wouldn't LOVE to have WoW's subscriber numbers. 
WoW is a good game up to level cap. Then its little but raiding and/or PVP. But obviously a lot of people like that...<shrug>