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10/21/09 11:01:53 PM#81
Originally posted by metalhead980
If you are going to complain about a balance issue, don't you think there should actually be an issue to complain about? I always hear hardcore PvPers railing against "carebears" like they are the spawn of satan, and yet (once again) even when asked directly you were unable to to describe a SINGLE way that empire carebears have any effect on your game. I am forced to conclude that all of the PvPer "hate" toward carebears amounts to nothing more than a temper tantrum with no logical basis. You are simply angry because there are others playing the game (paying customers, I might add) that aren't doing it the way you think they should. I have long suspected this was true, thank you for helping me prove it. |
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Originally posted by Enkindu
If you are going to complain about a balance issue, don't you think there should actually be an issue to complain about? I always hear hardcore PvPers railing against "carebears" like they are the spawn of satan, and yet (once again) even when asked directly you were unable to to describe a SINGLE way that empire carebears have any effect on your game. I am forced to conclude that all of the PvPer "hate" toward carebears amounts to nothing more than a temper tantrum with no logical basis. You are simply angry because there are others playing the game (paying customers, I might add) that aren't doing it the way you think they should. I have long suspected this was true, thank you for helping me prove it.
LOL don't give me that much credit dude, im only one player. maybe we can get some people here to argue with ya. I know a few miners and ship builders that could give you full blown essays on how carebear mission runners fuck shit up lol. Your right in saying most pvpers are just pissed that carebears make all that isk and are basically untouchable. As for me I don't care about that im more on the side of CCP. If they say mission runners make to much with no risk and need to gtfo of empire im all for it. its simple as that. If I see a balance issue it bugs me for no other reason than me knowing its not right, doesn't have to effect me at all. If your doing something and CCP thinks its fucked up and needs changing im down with them. CCP is right and if you disagree your wrong and gtfo. PLaying: EvE, Ryzom Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum |
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10/21/09 11:25:12 PM#83
Originally posted by metalhead980
I build all my own ships and I frequently buy low end minerals is mission systems because they are cheap there, and if someone is trying to make a living mining trit and pye in empire then I pity them FAR more than I pity any mission runner. I'm sorry, but I don't see logic in any of your arguments. Unless someone can show me LOGICAL reasons as opposed EMOTIONAL reasons that hisec mission runners are somehow bad for the game, I won't be changing my mind. Until then I think the answer to the question is pretty clear. |
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Originally posted by Enkindu
I build all my own ships and I frequently buy low end minerals is mission systems because they are cheap there, and if someone is trying to make a living mining trit and pye in empire then I pity them FAR more than I pity any mission runner. I'm sorry, but I don't see logic in any of your arguments. Unless someone can show me LOGICAL reasons as opposed EMOTIONAL reasons that hisec mission runners are somehow bad for the game, I won't be changing my mind. Until then I think the answer to the question is pretty clear. Pity them all you want its a valid complaint. As for emotional and logical reasons to not like mission running I already gave you my answer and I feel its too the point. BECAUSE CCP SAID SO! They make the game, they deliver this awesome universe to us, what they say goes. Ask CCP whats wrong with mission running then post it. Ill agree to that.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum |
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10/21/09 11:47:31 PM#85
Originally posted by metalhead980
"Because I said so" is a very bad business model. CCP isn't that stupid. They have not kept the game alive this long by making foolish, arbitrary decisions, and they won't start now. They will not offend a large segment of the playerbase without a good reason. Until I hear of a good reason I am of the opinion that nothing is going to change. |
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10/22/09 1:08:28 AM#86
Originally posted by Enkindu
There are no lowsec/ 0.0 "farmers." You can't farm in those areas because the players that have bothered to develop their skills in eve beyond afk high sec missioning will come vaporize your ass. There is no malice on the part of CCP putting the valuable assets in 0.0. If you are going to be a chickenshit and hide in high sec you don't DESERVE access to the good stuff. Metal is correct when he says that hisec carebears contribute NOTHING to the game. The only reason I am defending your right to exist in new eden is because you don't do anything to HARM the game either. Essentially if you run missions in high sec 100% of your eve life you are no more important to the events in the game than the NPCs. I also disagree that pure carebears represent any majority in the game. Most people go through a carebear "phase" but evolve to spend some or all of their time in lowsec/ 0.0. Don't misunderstand me: I agree with metal that you are missing out on EVERYTHING that makes eve worth playing. If I limited myself to high sec missions I would have quit out of RAGING BOREDOM 4 years ago. While I defend your right to play the way you wish, I personally think you are missing the WHOLE POINT of the game. If I thought that pointless hisec carebears had any negative effect on the game I'd be at the front of the line screaming to kick their asses out of the game. In my opinion, however, players like yourself have no effect whatsoever on anything besides your wallet balance, and as such I defend your right to keep playing. EDIT- also, the ONE THING that makes eve different from other games in the hardcore PvP both in combat and in the market. THAT is where the staying power of eve comes from. If everyone did nothing more than hisec PvE this game would have folded years ago. As things stand I am glad that players like yourself support eve by paying your bill each month.
It is well that you edited that We CareBear scum thank you for your consideration in this matter. Humor aside for the moment, as I've stated I have no interest in MMO PvP. I started out in UO. Over the time since then I've seen endless examples of how not to do a MMO PvP system. I'm to the point now that I really have no interest what so ever in MMO PvP. I do how ever still enjoy FPS PvP from time to time. I enjoy Eve because of the theme, the graphics, the mission game play aspect and the conversation in the help channel. While that may be entirely alien to many of you, you might be surprised at how many people are like that <shrug> |
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10/22/09 1:20:54 AM#87
Originally posted by metalhead980 Pity them all you want its a valid complaint. As for emotional and logical reasons to not like mission running I already gave you my answer and I feel its too the point. BECAUSE CCP SAID SO! They make the game, they deliver this awesome universe to us, what they say goes. Ask CCP whats wrong with mission running then post it. Ill agree to that.
Thats the FUNNY part of all of this. CCP does dislike mission runners. They want everyone to be doing PvP. They can't understand mission runners, since they are mostly hard core PvP types themselves. But over the years, they have come to realize that the scum that are the reviled CareBears make up a good portion of their PAYING CUSTOMERS. That being the reality(like it or not) their personal self interest has won out. Thus we see the introduction of more PvE content. As I'm fond of saying, the howls of outraged Gankers is such SWEET music to my fuzzy CareBear ears... |
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Originally posted by Wraithone Pity them all you want its a valid complaint. As for emotional and logical reasons to not like mission running I already gave you my answer and I feel its too the point. BECAUSE CCP SAID SO! They make the game, they deliver this awesome universe to us, what they say goes. Ask CCP whats wrong with mission running then post it. Ill agree to that.
Thats the FUNNY part of all of this. CCP does dislike mission runners. They want everyone to be doing PvP. They can't understand mission runners, since they are mostly hard core PvP types themselves. But over the years, they have come to realize that the scum that are the reviled CareBears make up a good portion of their PAYING CUSTOMERS. That being the reality(like it or not) their personal self interest has won out. Thus we see the introduction of more PvE content. As I'm fond of saying, the howls of outraged Gankers is such SWEET music to my fuzzy CareBear ears...
Yes the introduction of pve content you wont use. Thats the problem you ONLY want to run those level IV missions, You hold CCP back when it comes to pve content. Speedboat missions will fail, any fleet content will fail. God forbid CCP creates challenging content you wont run it if there is even a possiblity that you could die. How is CCP supposed to improve on one of its worse features (missions) if you guys wont run anything? Sad thing is most players are like you in empire this is why I say its a waste to cater to you guys.
Edit: Toned post down so mods wouldnt. PLaying: EvE, Ryzom Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum |
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10/22/09 7:30:31 AM#89
Originally posted by metalhead980
Thats the FUNNY part of all of this. CCP does dislike mission runners. They want everyone to be doing PvP. They can't understand mission runners, since they are mostly hard core PvP types themselves. But over the years, they have come to realize that the scum that are the reviled CareBears make up a good portion of their PAYING CUSTOMERS. That being the reality(like it or not) their personal self interest has won out. Thus we see the introduction of more PvE content. As I'm fond of saying, the howls of outraged Gankers is such SWEET music to my fuzzy CareBear ears...
Yes the introduction of pve content your to chicken shit to use? Thats the problem with pvers like you. you ONLY want to run those level IV missions, players like you hold CCP back when it comes to pve content. Speedboat missions will fail, any fleet content will fail. God forbid CCP creates challenging content you wont run it if there is even a possiblity that you could die. How is CCP supposed to improve on one of its worse features (missions) if you guys wont run anything? Sad thing is most players are like you in empire this is why I say its a waste to cater to you guys.
Metal, I'm not moved by your name calling. Either its an attempt to provoke an emotional response, or its a sign of someone who doesn't think things through. Given your past posts, I'll go with the former. You have no standing with me to justify an emotional response. There for none will be provided. I will address some of the issues you raise though. If you speak of WS in your first sentence, then yes I and many others will not be using it. You already know why. It takes us into gank space. While attacking mission runners(fitted with rat specific resists) may be entertaining for the ganker set, I'd hardly term it a challenge. But it is a risk to be factored in. As for "holding CCP back" only CCP makes the determination of what they will focus on. That determination no doubt takes into account what will appeal to the CareBear demographic. But given CCP's PvP focus, I seriously doubt thats the only factor. They also have more than sufficient resources to have multiple teams in operation at one time. If they choose to use some of those resources for PvE, thats their determination, not yours nor mine. As for the other, its a cost/benefit analysis in terms of missions. If I stand to gain from the mission(in terms of what is to be risked), I'll tend to run it. Its not just gankers that are risks. There are internet connection "issues" client crashes, server "issues" and power outages to factor in. In a game with a harsh death penalty such as Eve, those have to be taken in to account on the margin. As for why CCP doesn't just dump PvE, we both know that answer as well. Self interest and attention to their bottom line. As much as the PvP crowd likes to rant and rave about mission runners, the fact is that there are more of us, and we are paying customers and those numbers add up to a lot of potential lost revenue. This argument has been going on for years and years now. Its likely never going to be settled. But thats simply the reality as it exists. |
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10/22/09 9:19:55 AM#90
I have pretty much thought this for a long time. Untill another company puts out a compareable space sim MMO that has a less harsh failure/ death penalty you PVPers will have to get use to us hanging out in your game. If we did leave in mass for another game I think you pvpers would feel a sharp pain at the loss of all that cash flow form the care bear, businesses, buyers, and miners disappearing.
Just my thought there. Asheron's Call, Champions Online, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest, Lineage 2, Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft.Waiting for SWTOR |
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10/22/09 10:41:13 AM#91
Originally posted by uttaus
Ah, the old "you need our money" argument. CCP became profitable when they hit 50k subs. Obviously their outgoings are higher now, but it might take more ragequits than you think. Anyway, I have no objection to people playing how they wish as long as they dont agitate for game changes that break the sandbox spirit. By all means, miners, missioners and makers should be protected - by the efforts of those miners, missioners and makers, not by intrusive game mechanics. Give me liberty or give me lasers |
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10/22/09 10:56:05 AM#92
Originally posted by Malcanis
Ah, the old "you need our money" argument. CCP became profitable when they hit 50k subs. Obviously their outgoings are higher now, but it might take more ragequits than you think. Anyway, I have no objection to people playing how they wish as long as they dont agitate for game changes that break the sandbox spirit. By all means, miners, missioners and makers should be protected - by the efforts of those miners, missioners and makers, not by intrusive game mechanics.
The evolution of Concord indicates that CCP thinks other wise. Given that they are very pro PvP, that says they understand the threat to their business model that ganking in high sec represents. |
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10/22/09 11:21:00 AM#93
New Eden without 'intrusive mechanics' would be same shit as Darkfall. Asking for changes of this type is as dumb as carebears crying for more safety on their missions.
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Originally posted by Wraithone So you agree that you wont be taking part in the up coming pve stuff CCP is putting out for you. And with you saying most pvers are like you. Then you should also agree that that type of pve content shouldn't be even bothered with. That's what I said to start this whole back and forth lol! Thanks. Moving on.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum |
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10/22/09 12:13:36 PM#95
Originally posted by metalhead980 So you agree that you wont be taking part in the up coming pve stuff CCP is putting out for you. And with you saying most pvers are like you. Then you should also agree that that type of pve content shouldn't be even bothered with. That's what I said to start this whole back and forth lol! Thanks. Moving on.
NP. Any time. I'd love to do some sparring with the Sleepers. They sound interesting. But I'm not going into gank space to do so. |
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10/22/09 1:35:24 PM#96
Originally posted by Gdemami
Calm down. I'm not asking for any changes. I'm merely asking people to play the game as it is, for what it is.
PS wasn't it you who derided CCP for making EvE "themepark online" with the Dominion expansion? Give me liberty or give me lasers |
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10/22/09 3:32:43 PM#97
Yeah, playing the game your way...
1) change 0.0 into something absurd In both cases it will be epic fail. It is already a failure, 5 weeks before launch and there is not much to see on test server. |
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Originally posted by Wraithone
NP. Any time. I'd love to do some sparring with the Sleepers. They sound interesting. But I'm not going into gank space to do so. First time I took a ship into Wormhole space it was a freaking cruiser. You could easily go along with a few of your buddies bring a cheap BC and atleast check them out.Your going to be shocked at how WH space feels. Honestly it's nothing like walking into a low sec gate camp most of the systems are empty. If you bring a cloaked scout alt you can easily watch a wormhole exit and warp tfo if you see anyone. If you don't want to lose anything you could always ask a couple friends to go on test server with you and find a wormhole. Atleast to try them for fun.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum |
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10/22/09 4:48:38 PM#99
Originally posted by Gdemami
Man, I just love your indomitable optimism. What, what's the "something absurd" that 0.0 will be changed into? Give me liberty or give me lasers |
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10/22/09 5:02:21 PM#100
Originally posted by Malcanis
Man, I just love your indomitable optimism. What, what's the "something absurd" that 0.0 will be changed into?
Something you can't even begin to imagine! |
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