This why i hate wow, people just dont stop talking about it, im sure if half you guys were at your mothers funeral you would be discussing wow specs. talk about wow in the wow forums, or just go play wow.

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar

 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.

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Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.

In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

Originally posted by mrbbman

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar

 

 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.

---

 

Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.

In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

You seem to be confused.

They are not being astute at all, in fact neither are you, as you are relying on three year old information to provide the basis for your argument in a scenario where the class no longer performs anything like it did back during that time.

Drbaltazar was saying that you could go and buy Vanilla WoW right now, and that doing so will show you how limited Paladin were in there original form. Nothing about that is correct. Paladin are a very streamlined, efficient class now right from Level 1 upto 80. They are NOTHING like they were the first few years following release. Clearly he has not played in quite some time, and neither have you.

The way a Paladin played back then, has absolutely zero bearing on how they play today, other than the improvements that have been made to a class that was long considered the red headed stepchild of WoW.

Picking up Vanilla WoW today WILL NOT help you understand the way Paladins used to play, which is exactly what Heartless was referring to when he/she mentioned that drbalatazar had no idea what he was talking about. It is misinformation from someone who clearly has not played the game in ages. There is nothing astute or factual about that, period.

I think you're taking things too literally.

If you go and pick up Vanilla WoW you will not see Paladins how they used to be.

But if you think about things for even a second you will realize that he was talking about if you could go back and play Vanilla WoW as it was when there were no expansions.  Or if you even looked it up or watched videos of Paladins in their first iterations.

Don't be a literal speech nazi just to be a jerk.  I hope to god you know what he was talking about, valid or not as his point may be.

Ahh I get it now. You're a troll. When they made the comment, they were saying that a game that has only been out a year would not be as streamlined. So how the class performed (which you admit it was broken for three years, Aion has been out one year) is absolutely relevant to this discussion, which compares class balance as games progress. But then again, you are a WoW troll so I can't imagine anything resembling an opinion you actually harbor to come forth in this discussion.

Originally posted by laokoko

Nah.  Aion don't have complex talent tree like wow.

They use a stigma system.  Which basically means a templar can choose to learn 4 extra skill from a set of 10.

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/general-guides/8915-guide-stigma-system.html

So that's means every templar is basically identically.  It's less interesting than wow.

The plus side is it's easier to balance.

Not really less interesting everyone in WoW has the damn near identical spec for every roll. Sure you can mix it up a bit but for the most part if you aren't a cookie cutter build your gonna be subpar to others.

Also true. Cookie cutter builds abound in WoW as well, with very little variation between players. The plethora of skills to choose from give you illusion of choice, but it is simply an illusion. Not that this game will be any different. However, in terms of variability, like in WoW, you will see probably 3 different "good" builds per class.

Originally posted by mrbbman

Also true. Cookie cutter builds abound in WoW as well, with very little variation between players. The plethora of skills to choose from give you illusion of choice, but it is simply an illusion. Not that this game will be any different. However, in terms of variability, like in WoW, you will see probably 3 different "good" builds per class.

yea but usually those 3 different builds all play near identical

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by mrbbman

Also true. Cookie cutter builds abound in WoW as well, with very little variation between players. The plethora of skills to choose from give you illusion of choice, but it is simply an illusion. Not that this game will be any different. However, in terms of variability, like in WoW, you will see probably 3 different "good" builds per class.

 

yea but usually those 3 different builds all play near identical

Not really,  even the pure classes don't play identical in that game,  the hybrid classes are like different classes altogether.  Each spec needs a whole different set of gear ground out to be viable.  Well,   mages might fall into the catagory of being pretty much the same overall.

Wow off spec classes sucked hard at release and for a few years after but they have made them very nice with the expansions.

Biggest downer for me isn't the wow talents but the gearing.  World of Gearcraft imo.

Originally posted by mrbbman

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar

 

 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were

---

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.

---

 

Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.

In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

The whole point is that even at release, all classes in WoW had multiple specs and very often, each spec played differently than another. For example, a combat spec rogue played much different than a subtlety spec rogue.

Paladins were one of the most popular classes when WoW went live. They were powerful and were hit with the nerf bat, which made them virtually useless. But, just because paladins got nerfed, doesn't mean than WoW didn't offer multiple ways of customizing your character.

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by mrbbman

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar
 
 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were

---

 
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.

---

 
Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.
In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

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The whole point is that even at release, all classes in WoW had multiple specs and very often, each spec played differently than another. For example, a combat spec rogue played much different than a subtlety spec rogue.
Paladins were one of the most popular classes when WoW went live. They were powerful and were hit with the nerf bat, which made them virtually useless. But, just because paladins got nerfed, doesn't mean than WoW didn't offer multiple ways of customizing your character.

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This game is the same. A sorcerer with stigma equipped for increasing Magic Boost is going to play differently than a sorcerer equipped with stigma for snaring and mitigating movement. One is offensive and one is defensive. Really, if you can compare the two systems they are similar at the end of the day in terms of customization and playing different styles.

Originally posted by mrbbman

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by mrbbman

 

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar
 
 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were

 

---

 
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.

 

 

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Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.
In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

---

The whole point is that even at release, all classes in WoW had multiple specs and very often, each spec played differently than another. For example, a combat spec rogue played much different than a subtlety spec rogue.
Paladins were one of the most popular classes when WoW went live. They were powerful and were hit with the nerf bat, which made them virtually useless. But, just because paladins got nerfed, doesn't mean than WoW didn't offer multiple ways of customizing your character.

---

 

This game is the same. A sorcerer with stigma equipped for increasing Magic Boost is going to play differently than a sorcerer equipped with stigma for snaring and mitigating movement. One is offensive and one is defensive. Really, if you can compare the two systems they are similar at the end of the day in terms of customization and playing different styles.

They may be similar but WoW's system allows for much more flexibility in terms of character design simply because it allows for much more choices.

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by mrbbman

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by mrbbman
 
 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by drbaltazar
 
 remember wow had 3 game of wow released so of caurse they have more skill,but if you buy the vanilla wow and try it you ll see how limited paladin were
 

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Please stop excusing your sub par game by lying about a better game.
 
 

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Actually they are being quite astute. In the classic release I played a Paladin all the way up to 60 and they were very poorly designed. It was only through constant player feedback and major revamps to the class that they are the streamlined class you see today.
In WoW classic, you actually had Paladins wearing priest healing gear and spamming quick heals in MC. They couldn't even do what they were supposed to do which was wear plate and be a class that took damage and saved people in combat. An no these weren't noobs these people were expert raiders. It took more than a year to get to the point where their talent trees even made sense.

---

The whole point is that even at release, all classes in WoW had multiple specs and very often, each spec played differently than another. For example, a combat spec rogue played much different than a subtlety spec rogue.
Paladins were one of the most popular classes when WoW went live. They were powerful and were hit with the nerf bat, which made them virtually useless. But, just because paladins got nerfed, doesn't mean than WoW didn't offer multiple ways of customizing your character.

---

 
This game is the same. A sorcerer with stigma equipped for increasing Magic Boost is going to play differently than a sorcerer equipped with stigma for snaring and mitigating movement. One is offensive and one is defensive. Really, if you can compare the two systems they are similar at the end of the day in terms of customization and playing different styles.

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They may be similar but WoW's system allows for much more flexibility in terms of character design simply because it allows for much more choices.

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Actually there isn't much flexibility at all, only the illusion of it. Let's take a Warlock. If the Warlock is PvPing they will go with 1 maybe 2 builds. If they are PvEing they will again have maybe 1 or 2 builds that they use. People will even ask what spec you are because they know the 3 or four specs everyone is using.

The talents you learn in WoW are generally very minor passive abilities which chain together to unlock a talent specific spell. You might gain 3 - 4 unique spells or abilities in a build. Here you also have only a few builds, but instead of all the passive abilities you just gain the active abilities. I would argue you get more active abilities in this system at higher levels. 7 instead of 3 - 4.

Now yes, you can theoretically place points willy nilly in the talent trees in WoW to come up with more unique combinations, that are all gimped. If you think the ability to create a gimped toon is superior then great. Otherwise, what you have is a similar system with the fluff removed. Some people like fluff and I would never tell someone that they should not prefer fluff over lack of fluff. But that is essentially the main difference between the two systems. The other main difference between the two systems is the fact these abilities are purchasable and drop instead of being built into the character.

The end result is the same, 2 - 4 commonly played builds that lend to offense, defense, or a hybrid of the two. With separate abilities and playstyles.

Originally posted by mrbbman

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Actually there isn't much flexibility at all, only the illusion of it. Let's take a Warlock. If the Warlock is PvPing they will go with 1 maybe 2 builds. If they are PvEing they will again have maybe 1 or 2 builds that they use. People will even ask what spec you are because they know the 3 or four specs everyone is using.

The talents you learn in WoW are generally very minor passive abilities which chain together to unlock a talent specific spell. You might gain 3 - 4 unique spells or abilities in a build. Here you also have only a few builds, but instead of all the passive abilities you just gain the active abilities. I would argue you get more active abilities in this system at higher levels. 7 instead of 3 - 4.

Now yes, you can theoretically place points willy nilly in the talent trees in WoW to come up with more unique combinations, that are all gimped. If you think the ability to create a gimped toon is superior then great. Otherwise, what you have is a similar system with the fluff removed. Some people like fluff and I would never tell someone that they should not prefer fluff over lack of fluff. But that is essentially the main difference between the two systems. The other main difference between the two systems is the fact these abilities are purchasable and drop instead of being built into the character.

The end result is the same, 2 - 4 commonly played builds that lend to offense, defense, or a hybrid of the two. With separate abilities and playstyles.

There are at least 10 different builds for Warlocks on wowwiki.com. How many different builds can you have for a single class in Aion? And by different builds, I don't mean one extra ability but otherwise the same as everyone else. I mean builds that actually require a different approach. Kind of like an affliction warlock plays drastically different from a demonology warlock.