Originally posted by Jackio81

Good show, but then again when was the the last time you saw that level of AI in an MMO....=/

AI in games isn't designed to make the player feel like an idiot.  That's not its purpose.

Originally posted by Palebane

(..)But I have to agree, FPS games are starting to behave more like RPGs. Just look at CoD4 and TF2 with the achievements and unlocks. It's almost like loot rewards. And character progression. And story driven plots (ala Left 4 Dead). 

 

 

Counterstrike mods with xp gain and superpower rewards have shown me that you prolly have to go a whole new way, if you want to combine Hack n Slash and RPG with Shooters. The games have a fundament; you enter a game with a certain mindset ( in danish you would say that a game have a Præmis, but cant find a decent english word...), so if you enter a shooter, you expect that all players are more or less on equel ground at start, and is here to compete in aiming and fast reactions. Surprise , surprise, when someone throw a `nade your direction and you and all your teammates blow up - because u know, that wasnt a nade, it was Superlevel10nuke, which you can equip when you have played that server for 7 hours. It just feel akward and unfair.

That said i think there have been some pretty decent experiments with Fallout 3 as the absolute best in singleplayer, and Tabula Rasa as a decent mmo shooter.

Of course now we have games like Fallen Earth, an MMORPGFPS.  Oh no what will we do now.

Venge Sunsoar

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by twiggy550

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Securion

Think about it.
When you play an FPS game online, you play with and against other people. ALL THE TIME.
When you play an "MMO", you run around alone most of the time.

I could also add that FPS multiplayer is generally 16 vs 16 up to 64 vs 64 and so beats the number of players in the same group as well as generally having better teamplayers, more intelligent people (flame suit on) and more action.

I predict a future where future FPS games take over the MMO market. The MMO companies will continue to make WOW clones forever, and continue to fail, while companies like DICE and Infinity Ward continues to make games that are bigger and better, closing in on what we would call "MMO"s in functionality.

 

 

FPS games lack skill.  They are usually just running around and killing/dying and respawning.  I don't like FPS because it's just like you are shooting other players all the time, and NPCs tend to have more intelligence and are difficult to kill as opposed to players.  If I play FPS games, they tend to get boring after 20 minutes of continuous play. They are total garbage.

And what is wrong with being alone in an MMORPG?  Maybe I don't want to be with other people all of the time when I'm in an MMORPG.  Some people just want to explore things.  What is there to explore in trashy FPS games.

"NPCs tend to have more intelligence and are difficult to kill as opposed to players." You really did NOT just claim that.

Sir, you must be dense, because claiming that an MMO requires MORE skill than an FPS is utterly ridiculous. As much as I like MMOs they are at the same level of FPS's as far as PvP goes, but PvE is mind numbingly easy, boring, and repetitive. The AI in any game will never be more clever or as you said "intelligent" than a living, breathing, human.

 

NPCs are overpowered, so you are not on a level playing field.  It takes a lot of skill to take down NPCs, a lot of coordination and planning.  In FPS you are the same as other players, you just run around and shoot people, it's trivial and boring.  

Games that require some thought are interesting, FPS are for 10 year olds who run around screaming headshot and have no planning or logical capabilities.  

Wow, I have to come back to this post, it's just so retarded I enjoyed tearing into it the first time I feel like doing it again..=D

MMOs require skills to take on NPCs? Yeah I know just like all those times I'd aggro a group by mistake, my PC would crash, I'd log on to find my avatar took them all out with auto attack...HAHA, that's strategy and skill alright!

You know maybe the reason you think FPS games are for retards is because you play like a retard in FPS games....just stay away from the Halo crowd and trust me you'll find just how much more advanced combat in FPS games are compared to MMO.

/wink

Originally posted by DaX.9

I can only say to this: LOL

Indeed.

I'd go as far as to say that the reason most MMOs these days are failing is that they don't clone WoW enough.  They always try and cater for counterstrike players who will never play anything but counterstike anyway.

What the difference beetween massively multiplayer online, multiplayer and online game?

That day a FPS online game beats an MMO game would that need to make it into an MMO game in first place. Are you not just saying that a MMO game you like is better than a MMO game you don't like?

Originally posted by woza

Originally posted by DaX.9

I can only say to this: LOL

 

Indeed.

I'd go as far as to say that the reason most MMOs these days are failing is that they don't clone WoW enough. 

Wow, you're really in for a lot of flaming with that remark....0o

Anyways I also want to state I'm not even supporting the OP.

MMOFPS is a genre I think would do well if it's ever done right, but it won't replace MMOs.

Now that's another extreme in stupidity I can do nothing but laugh at.

IMO its two different genres so one will never overtake the other, there probably will be some games that merge both genres into an awesome gaming experience (I hope borderlands will be kind of a preview to what an MMOFPS can be like) but like others have said, its comparing apples and oranges.

Now for the guy that said MMOs take more skill the FPS'....you sir are so dense I'd rather have a conversation with a 4 year old who talks about pillows and dog shit then listen to you. I can only assume every FPS you have played you've only done deathmatches and have had autoaim on from the start.

I've played EQ, UO, FFXI, WoW, EVE and plenty of other MMOs and I have never ever had to think about how to take out NPCs with a strategy its always the same thing no matter what game, spam your highest dmg spell or ability and occasionally cure yourself: wash, rinse, repeat.

Now with the many FPS' I've played, I dont even count halo that much unless its CTF or Assault, games like CoD4 that I play with a group of friends, there is a lot of talking going on between all of us and we still donminate, even while we talk about random things like the last bengals game or the next new console game coming out. So the socializing is still there just like any GOOD MMO (WoW is such a lonely game sometimes)

Then there will always be strategy and thinking when playing headquarters or search and destroy in CoD. What base to take because they will be easy to defend, or having these bases will make them respawn in a horrible vantage point,  who defends what with what weapon, so on and so forth...so just stop fanboying and play against hardcore fps fans that arent 14 year old screaming children on halo and you will find plenty of strategy and skill.

Now back to playing FFXI while I wait for FF14, Borderlands, Dragon Age, CoD MW2, and Demon Souls

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by Zhqrxt

The FPS mmo, with headshots= criticals, defenately would work as E sport, and the eye-hand coordination gamestyle would support a inverioment where you truly could talk about skilled ( ie fast reactions) players. But suchs game would at the same time, be The Horror  for older mature MMO geeks - they wouldnt stand a chance when all the sugar doped 14 years old Counterstrike mutants enter the scene.

 

Well maybe the genre needs to be shaken up a bit considering how much of a borefest MMOs have become. My god if I see another MMO come out that's been hyped to hell or considered a sleeper and fail after the first month I'm becoming a full blown MMO hater and troll from then on.

I'll just hop on these forums to inform you all how awesome CoD:MW2 or Mass Effect 2 are and lol while asking how you're genre is doing.

Right now I have 10 different FPS games I'm looking forward to coming out in the next six months, do you know how many MMOs there are?

Zero.

The way MMOs are going MO will suck, APB will suck and so will ToR...and those games are not even guaranteed to come out for another year or so.

All that time wasted just to realize maybe I should have never left WoW if I'm really that much of an MMO enthusiast.

Now that's pathetic...>>

 

Hahahahaha!

/end thread tbh, and i made the damn thread. LOL.

I honestly wish you were right man but you’re not.

FPS games are for a breed of players and then, within that breed, a handfull are superior to the rest.
The issue here is that most players are yes, indeed pub style players that can have incredible matches among each other, then anomaly such as me or other much better player then me, will come in and swiftly turn the battle around with nothing more then a pistol.

Take planetside for example, my buddies and I played that game for maybe 3 or 4 months. We had an average of over 3000 kills and less then 50 deaths. Our teamwork, tactics, aim and such were much more superior than some of the highest levels in the game. We didn’t use the epic high end gear, all we used were the little default assault rifles and medium armor lol.

The reason MMOs are like how they are today is to enforce a balance. The balance is made through skills and stats and it’s basicaly, who can get the best gear first. Sure you’ll probably find a few tactics here and there but don’t expect much more. Even Darkfall is borderline moer based on stats then player skills.

You want to see how good you would do in an FPS mmo?

www.quakelive.com

go play against the league players and let me know how you did.
 

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Originally posted by Ponico

I honestly wish you were right man but you’re not.
FPS games are for a breed of players and then, within that breed, a handfull are superior to the rest.
The issue here is that most players are yes, indeed pub style players that can have incredible matches among each other, then anomaly such as me or other much better player then me, will come in and swiftly turn the battle around with nothing more then a pistol.
Take planetside for example, my buddies and I played that game for maybe 3 or 4 months. We had an average of over 3000 kills and less then 50 deaths. Our teamwork, tactics, aim and such were much more superior than some of the highest levels in the game. We didn’t use the epic high end gear, all we used were the little default assault rifles and medium armor lol.
The reason MMOs are like how they are today is to enforce a balance. The balance is made through skills and stats and it’s basicaly, who can get the best gear first. Sure you’ll probably find a few tactics here and there but don’t expect much more. Even Darkfall is borderline moer based on stats then player skills.
You want to see how good you would do in an FPS mmo?
www.quakelive.com
go play against the league players and let me know how you did.
 

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Ive played Quake on and off since Quake 1 btw. Quake 2 on a competitive worldclass level.

Truthfully, FPS games won't be superior to MMO's, Everyone has their own play style and their own games they like, I happen to like both. but imo mmo's have better communities than FPS's cause FPS's are mostly filled with cocky bastards that think they are better than everyone and talk shit. but most, not all.

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Originally posted by naraku209

Truthfully, FPS games won't be superior to MMO's, Everyone has their own play style and their own games they like, I happen to like both. but imo mmo's have better communities than FPS's cause FPS's are mostly filled with cocky bastards that think they are better than everyone and talk shit. but most, not all.

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All that is needed for the current developers of MMOs to be out of a job, is that one of the developers for current famous FPS titles decides to develop an MMO.
Maybe not MMOFPS, maybe MMO3rdPS, but something will come from that market segment and it will rape current WOW clones in the a**.

Sure, WOW players will always play WOW or WOW-clones, but they are only 10-15 million. Battlefield 2 alone sold that number. Put all FPS titles together and you understand what kinda number of ppl we are talking about here.

Landslide.

Originally posted by Securion .

 The MMO companies will continue to make WOW clones forever, and continue to fail

 

All mmorpg's are a clone of WOW you say...aren't all FPS games the same?Just asking...

A great deal of FPS game design has already filtered through to MMO’s. The importance of graphics over story and the in game scenario /skirmish ideas. FPS has taken some MMO themes to heart like online recording of your scores and achievements. Some like Fallen Earth have gone for twitch combat and that MMO was hardly the first to try out that style in a MMO.

We will see more hybrid game styles in the future, some will no doubt fail but I would expect to see more and more of these coming to the fore. I don’t see them replacing previous game styles but supplementing them.

Originally posted by Securion

 

They are already superior to MMOs. Both in story telling, graphics, animations, network code, combat system, physics, voice over, multiplayer, singleplayer... everything.

They are only superior in those ways because they dont have 300,000 people shooting/interacting with NPCs at the same time. You should have looked at the differences between MMOs and FPSs before making that statement. MMOs and FPSs have their merits and demerits, they can both get repetitive and boring and they can both be intensely easy and not require much skill until you reach those higher stages or dungeons or go play PvP to shoot up some random unlucky player. FPSs require strategy in the sense that when you're in a group fighting another group or something you have to actually think about how you are going to run in and grab that flag without dieing, just as MMOs require strategy in the sense that as a healer your job is to keep the whole team alive, as a tank your role is to throw the DPS and receive most of the DPS because you know your healer cant take it or if you're all alone you have learn to use your potion at the right time.

In all honesty any one who says on or the other doesn't require some sort of coordination or strategy as a team or a single unit is talking blindly and has not thought what he/she is typing out properly.

I do not believe that developers of FPSs will re-invent the wheel to make fleshed out MMOFPS experiences because thats not where their expertise lie but I'm not saying they cannot do it I'm just saying that it is not what I think the will be focused on. In the end it will be MMO makers that will re-invent their own wheel and possibly push MMOs to the forefront because it is them that are making several attempts at combining elements of MMOs and FPSs, my example is DUST 514 which is being developed by CCP makers of EVE online, the game is not being made by infinity ward or Bioware or EA, its being made by MMO developers who wish to expand and re-invent the wheel. FPS developers are not just going to bust in and start making MMOFPSs because they feel that's the next evolution, they will have to have a little more experience in delivering that feeling of accomplishment that MMOs provide and even if they did they'd probably just copy of WoW as most MMOs have done. Unlike the FPS developers MMO devs are the ones trying to put the two genres together and are the ones who are trying to innovate.

So no, FPSs will not rise above MMOs but will become apart of the ideas that come out of MMO development like DUST 514 or Tabula Rasa or Planetside, assuming it will overtake and remove MMOs as a genre and wipe it from existence is like saying Chuck Norris will die in a movie.

Originally posted by Securion

 

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Originally posted by Ponico

 

I honestly wish you were right man but you’re not.
FPS games are for a breed of players and then, within that breed, a handfull are superior to the rest.
The issue here is that most players are yes, indeed pub style players that can have incredible matches among each other, then anomaly such as me or other much better player then me, will come in and swiftly turn the battle around with nothing more then a pistol.
Take planetside for example, my buddies and I played that game for maybe 3 or 4 months. We had an average of over 3000 kills and less then 50 deaths. Our teamwork, tactics, aim and such were much more superior than some of the highest levels in the game. We didn’t use the epic high end gear, all we used were the little default assault rifles and medium armor lol.
The reason MMOs are like how they are today is to enforce a balance. The balance is made through skills and stats and it’s basicaly, who can get the best gear first. Sure you’ll probably find a few tactics here and there but don’t expect much more. Even Darkfall is borderline moer based on stats then player skills.
You want to see how good you would do in an FPS mmo?
www.quakelive.com
go play against the league players and let me know how you did.
 

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Im sorry, but i dont think i understand you... are you saying that an MMO from established fps-games developers would fail because some players are better than others? lol?

 

Ive played Quake on and off since Quake 1 btw. Quake 2 on a competitive worldclass level.

Ok, fair enough and I can see that you and I are in for a long argument… So, imagine this.

An FPS MMO with a decent community of 300.000 members.

If you played on a competitive level and did well then you know that you’re in a league higher then the average. You know that some of your ultra equiped guildies will probably never manage to take on 12 guys with a pistol and you know that a 13 year old kid will completely overwhelmed you with his insane reflexes no matter what level you and him are. You know that a handfull of players will completely control this game and there’s not much you can do.

For some and many, that’s pretty cool and competition is really fun. The balance of power will probably shift left and right but only between a niche.

However, it’s an MMO where everyone should have a chance. Yet, most of them will be limited compared to others and no matter what gear they use, they will get dominated. So you have the experience and since you’re a world class quake 2 player, you probably know Team Abuse and players such as Cancer, Citizen or perhaps clan CK and Darkside?

You’ve probably seen how 1 good player can turn a 32 versus 32 game in an instant. I’ve seen it and anyone that’s been playing FPS games for a long time have seen it. 1 single player can go against 32 players and survive. Name me ONE mmo that allows that with ease. I’m not talking exception, I am taking on a consistant level here. I personaly can’t come up with a name because even the strongest PVPer will fall if zerged..

Battlefield 2, I’ve seen it countless of times where one player would be able to go on a rush and take out the entire team. This is not always a random, luck occurrence.

Most MMOs players are care bears and even if their hardcore PVPers, trust me, they are care bears and would probably never be able to cope with a ratio of 1/12 as an average. If you played Quake 2, then you know that this is true. FPS requires practice and a lot of it. MMOs require time and grind.

Would it fail, probably not… can it take over the current market. I doubt it… Unless someone comes up with a good way of balancing both Skills/level/gameplay for everyone.
 

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Jackio81

Good show, but then again when was the the last time you saw that level of AI in an MMO....=/ 

AI in games isn't designed to make the player feel like an idiot.  That's not its purpose.

Very good point, something most people fail to realize.  Make the AI too good and you'd discourage your players and they'd end up quitting.

As for FPS games having better AI, it's just an illusion.  Did you know that the original Halo testers reported the game AI improving after a code modification by the developers, little did they know that all the developers did was increase the amount of health of the enemies.  Anyone with a computer science background should read "Programming Game AI by Example" by Mat Bukland.  It's very interesting the little tricks that are used to give the illusion of intelligence.

Originally posted by Securion

Think about it.
When you play an FPS game online, you play with and against other people. ALL THE TIME.
When you play an "MMO", you run around alone most of the time.

I could also add that FPS multiplayer is generally 16 vs 16 up to 64 vs 64 and so beats the number of players in the same group as well as generally having better teamplayers, more intelligent people (flame suit on) and more action.

I predict a future where future FPS games take over the MMO market. The MMO companies will continue to make WOW clones forever, and continue to fail, while companies like DICE and Infinity Ward continues to make games that are bigger and better, closing in on what we would call "MMO"s in functionality.

 

i think FPS will advance faster then other mmo's but mmorpg's give people a diffrent gaming exp.

If anything FPS will help mmorpg's with new gaming engines.