If only UO existed maybe about now the mmo genre would be dead.

Originally posted by Netzoko

Classes are considered a bad thing by alot of people,

Not the majority, and I'd guess not even a large minority.

and the pulling mechanism you mention is the reason PvE is such a boring and skilless activity.

What's the alternative? It's boring and skilless in a lot of the open PvE, but not in dungeons.

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

EQ was based on the game Meridian 59 anyways. And just blaming EQ isn't right either, there was a reason that all games after were based on EQ and not UO.

No, the problem today is the opposite. Instead of trying something new the MMO devs just do the same thing over and over. If they would make UO instead of EQ over and over wouldn't make any difference, people should still be rather tired of all the current game.

What we really need is that the devs go back to the old pen and paper games again and try to recreate them from the start again. And not just the 1st gen RPG D&D but the later gen games also. After you done that you might have a look on the existing game game, UO, EQ wow and so on, and see if they have any features that will make your game better.

The problem is that devs just look on current games instead of starting from the beginning again and try to make a fun game. EQ, UO, Meridian and Lineage tried that so complaining on them is just stupid, the problem are lazy devs that don't bother to think for themselves.

What Makes UO Fail at life. Point and Click to move.

EQ ownz UO for 1 reason. WSAD FTW!

While I agree with your core topic I think you injected to much pvp nerd rage.  One UOs failures was it gave people to much freedom with little to no consequences.

Originally posted by Omali

I have to side with Metalhead on this one. I always figured it was the "nerds" who preferred to dive into the game's lore, questing, etc, while the PvP is mainly held by the more twitch-based players.
At least, that seemed to be the breakdown of demographics in most MMOs I've played.

Are you proposing that the twitch gamers are the 'jocks'?

Originally posted by Pharoin

I was quite the fan of Everquest. The only things that i can even say bad about it was the grind of course. The other problems were player related which were item linking( I dont give a freaking fudge! what items u have, how bout helping others get them instead of trying to get people to envy u!) The second thing was the players that felt they couldnt group with anyone who didnt breathe eat and sleep EQ( I apologize for having to fight for my country and cant take time out in Afghanistan and Iraq to play all day).

The only ones fighting for their country in Iraq are the Iraqis. You're fighting for Haliburton.

 mm derailling lol

Originally posted by Sauronas

Everyone wanted an EQ but it didn't turn out the way most people imagined.  In early UO days people were saying "Man, I wish this was in 3d." so it would have happened eventually.  What EQ did wrong was create the carebear.

LMAO EQ was far from carebear?  Everything else out now, pales incomparison from what EQ was. I remember when it was a feat just to make it across the world to meet up with a buddy sometimes it tooks hours and many deaths. Now you just port yourself or fly, 10 mins most.  EQ had death penalties that ment something, you died, you had a chance you would lose everything on that corpse if you couldnt make it back to it or find somebody to drag it to a safe place and you lost XP. You was scared to die.  Now in these newer carebear MMOs, you just spawn at a graveyard  like nothing happened.  In EQ you could get lost and get introuble.  Now you run wherever you want and if your lost....just port back to town.   EQ in the begining was a great, dangerous, huge world and you felt it.  The "give it all to me now for free kids" and the "Im entitled to everything no matter how much I play" people are the ones that have ruined MMOs. 

 even today eq1 is a nasty game 

i would never recommend a new player eq1

eq1 is great if you re getting out of wow and want a bigger chanllenge

that will be my next game for (ya i know its a freaking brainy game but it might be good in the end)

Originally posted by Rakuji

What Makes UO Fail at life. Point and Click to move.

EQ ownz UO for 1 reason. WSAD FTW!

The point and click in Ultima Online was done right though, the way it should be done instead of having to keep on clicking, all you have to do is hold the mouse button down to walk and run, you didnt have to keep clicking endlessly to move, and the movement in the game for characters were great.. Diablo 2 somewhat did it right, but it was kind of hard, in UO you were always centered and you moved with the screen, the screen didn't move with you...

Runescape failed at it.

Originally posted by Omali

I have to side with Metalhead on this one. I always figured it was the "nerds" who preferred to dive into the game's lore, questing, etc, while the PvP is mainly held by the more twitch-based players.

Guilty, lol.

But I'd argue they're just a different brand of nerd.  I enjoyed the lore and exploration side of things, but others get their kicks from legitimate PvP and/or ganking lowbies.  But we're both playing an online roleplaying game for hundreds of hours... yeah we're all nerds.

Originally posted by Vallanor

Originally posted by Omali

I have to side with Metalhead on this one. I always figured it was the "nerds" who preferred to dive into the game's lore, questing, etc, while the PvP is mainly held by the more twitch-based players.

 

Guilty, lol.

But I'd argue they're just a different brand of nerd.  I enjoyed the lore and exploration side of things, but others get their kicks from legitimate PvP and/or ganking lowbies.  But we're both playing an online roleplaying game for hundreds of hours... yeah we're all nerds.

Im not so sure, i think WOW did open the door to Homer Simpson types...

Originally posted by Goatgod76

 

PvP MMO's breed idiocy and immaturity on a grand scale. Look at nearly ANY PvP server on any MMO out there now. Wanna talk about elitests.

Exactly.  That's why I don't want to play around PvPers.  I've been in games where I was just sitting around, people-watching and had tons of PvP loons walking up to every single person in the area and challenging them to a fight so they could show off their mad skillz.

Too bad there isn't an option for a mob uprising so everyone these idiots bother could join together and beat them silly.  I'd actually join in for that!

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

So UO was not a grind fest at all?

i loved EQ, loved the hard work. Took me years to get to max level. But i saw the world. I explored and had fun

I like Aion, as it actually makes me feel like playing a newer version of EQ. It's a bit of a grind, but by god it's fun. As a cleric, i truly feel like an eq cleric.

I don't feel like my hand is being held all the way through the game, like wow feels like.

Did you even play Eq that much back then?

I like to think of it as the cornerstone to all the following games out there. And i like it. Love it even. Good old EQ will always have a place in my heart.

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

Did you even play EQ?  Lol

Why should items come from players instead of raids?  Did you raid in EQ?  Getting endgame items in EQ is much harder than newer MMORPGs.  In WoW and AION you can get items NP, but in EQ only like .1% of the population had the best gear.  In EQ you can be somebody, in newer MMORPGS, no matter how great you are, you are still going to be a relative nobody, gear is trivial in new games.

EQ didn't even have quests, this is bullshit.  You didn't even play EQ.  EQ didn't have quests really, maybe some epic quests.  EQ didn't even have mini-maps, where are they gonna paint on your quest map "go A to B " in EQ when they dont have it?  

Grinding for gear?  EQ raids we're really difficult, they weren't grinds.  In PoP you can get to a raid boss in less than an hour, many of them within 5 minutes.  How is that a grind?  

EQ didn't have instances either, until their junk expansions, but mainly it was a massive world.

There are no EQ clones out there, because I'd be playing it.  A game with no instances, difficult PvE and open PvP.  EQ was the only true MMORPG.  UO is a piece of garbage, it looks like Diablo 2, lmao.  Is it even an MMORPG.  What a bad troll

Thats what I always said with the

UO School of Thought  vs EQ School of Thought

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

Totally silly rant.

The fact that EQ is 5x more successful than UO (500k vs 100k) and WOW is 20x more successful than EQ shows that hack-n-slash is what people find fun. You don't like it .. FINE. Don't play.

Personally, EQ is 100x the better game than UO. This world thing is way over-rated. Each MMORPG needs to have a good GAME underneath. The "g" is for game.

Without EQ MMO's might have never established themselves. A lot of what the OP blames on EQ is actually single player game menatality imported into MMO's.

I must leap to the defence of PvP. But not PvP servers, I am talking about zoned PvP where the player chooses to go and play against that toughest of enemies, another player. PvP servers have a morass of problems as the dropping numbers from such servers shows.
 

I wouldn't say EQ influence was terrible.  It brought some terrible ideas to the table like the holy trinity, single player group design, rigid classes to name a few but over all I think EQ had a positive influence on the genre.