Fanboys, people lying about games, people giving everyone rose-tinted glasses is what's killing this genre more than anything.

Lates example Aion, people who tell you there's no grind when the game past lvl 20 is one HUGE grind, hours of grinding to get one level when you're lvl 20+.

Vanguard, another example, people claiming it had no bugs when it had tons on release and everyone QQ'ing they crashed.

There needs to be a new system in-place where people are much much more scrutinised when they lie about MMO. I am so incredibly sick of this, you can't even trust normal people anymore since they will hide every faulty aspect of their game and everyone is disappointed when they finally play it. 

When people and especially magazines / bloggers and sites, LIE, they need to be pointed out and scrutinised. Every time a PC game gets sold under the wrong impression, the wrong companies keep on making money. No wonder this industry is in so much trouble.

CONCRETE EXAMPLES:

IGN preview claiming Aion has no grind:

pc.ign.com/articles/102/1027688p2.html

VS

Eurogamer smashing Aion's grind in every line:

www.eurogamer.net/articles/aion-the-tower-of-eternity-review

I can tell you from playing Aion that IGN was LYING and Eurogamer wasn't. How am *I*..........as a consumer, supposed to take this stuff serious anymore?

People have been biased and lying in their non-professional reviews of products since the first piece of fish was sold at market.

I don't think people mean to lie. I think they are emotionally involved in their games and that might cause them to be biased.

If you want unbiased reviews, I suggest you trust paid, professional reviewers before you trust well-meaning players on an internet forum.

Originally posted by Tisiphone

If you want unbiased reviews, I suggest you trust paid, professional reviewers before you trust well-meaning players on an internet forum.

Unless you're getting Kane and Lynch.

Eurogamer LIES!!!

 It's very hard to quantify opinion. If a reviewer likes a certain game, they will give it a good review. There is no one standard as far as how enjoyable a game is. Some people will have fun with it and others won't.

The lesson to learn is that you can't blindly follow what others say, especially on the internet. If you do the work and investigate the pros and cons using several reviews you will probably not be as disappointed in the future. You have to be ready to sort out the biases and find reviewers who have the same likes and dislikes as you do. Don't get caught up in all the hype. Take a realistic look at game mechanics and decide for yourself.

op what part of MASSIVE

   MULTIPLAYER DIDNT YOU  UNDERSTAND

it does say massive everything is massive in a mmo

it is silly to say this game as grind

all starting mmo have grind,wow had it,aion have it

i will tell you go try eq1 then speak about grind

---

Originally posted by dodsfall
 It's very hard to quantify opinion. If a reviewer likes a certain game, they will give it a good review. There is no one standard as far as how enjoyable a game is. Some people will have fun with it and others won't.
The lesson to learn is that you can't blindly follow what others say, especially on the internet. If you do the work and investigate the pros and cons using several reviews you will probably not be as disappointed in the future. You have to be ready to sort out the biases and find reviewers who have the same likes and dislikes as you do. Don't get caught up in all the hype. Take a realistic look at game mechanics and decide for yourself.

---

I think this sums it up nicely. Pros and cons are the way to go. People have very greyscale interests in games.

For example:

Grinding <---> Questing
Set Skill Tree <---> Classless Progression
Open World <---> Linear
PvP <---> PvE
Party <---> Solo

So if I'm 70% Grinding and 30% Questing I will probably feel that Aion has enough quests. If I'm 90% Questing and 10% Grinding, I'll probably balk at having to grind.

Or, if I'm playing FFXI and I'm 50% Solo, 50% Party, I'll probably be more upset about FFXI's party system than somebody who is 15% Solo and 85% Party.

One person says there is a grind another says there is no grind.  It comes down to what that person thinks is a grind.  To me when I think of grinding its a solofest of quests and I totally hate it, but I can sit all day in a party and kill mobs and not think its a grind at all. So they really aren't lying because they don't feel it is a grind,  its their opinion its not a Fact.

 Reviews in general are a dangerous measuring device as it is, unless you relate to someone in particular with similar tastes as yours. Most can't even get the neutral aspects of games objectively without injecting a little of their own 'experience' which is just a sum of emotions and comparisons to past played games. Games and emotions not everyone experience the same way.

As for lying, this is the internet, and anonymity and a assured lack of accountablity can make anyone say anything without a care in the world. Some do it for fun (trolls), some for a sense of self-righteousness (fanbois), some that are genuinely sincere (but lack experience)...and the list goes on.

I honestly don't see why things like that get you upset OP, words from strangers that you''ll never likely in your life ever meet should affect you like a fart coming from someone's dog in another continent.

Play what you like, ignore the naysayers, make friends with like minded people and you'll enjoy your gaming, facebooking, twittering, blogging, etc all the more. 

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 Reviews in general are a dangerous measuring device as it is, unless you relate to someone in particular with similar tastes as yours. Most can't even get the neutral aspects of games objectively without injecting a little of their own 'experience' which is just a sum of emotions and comparisons to past played games. Games and emotions not everyone experience the same way.

As for lying, this is the internet, and anonymity and a assured lack of accountablity can make anyone say anything without a care in the world. Some do it for fun (trolls), some for a sense of self-righteousness (fanbois), some that are genuinely sincere (but lack experience)...and the list goes on.

I honestly don't see why things like that get you upset OP, words from strangers that you''ll never likely in your life ever meet should affect you like a fart coming from someone's dog in another continent.

Play what you like, ignore the naysayers, make friends with like minded people and you'll enjoy your gaming, facebooking, twittering, blogging, etc all the more. 

I 'll wait with trying MMO and see what other people say instead of believing every review I read, and it's no reason for me to get upset, you're right. *calm blue ocean*

Your position presumes that everyone believes what they read and no one tries the game to see for themselves. And that is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by bastii

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 Reviews in general are a dangerous measuring device as it is, unless you relate to someone in particular with similar tastes as yours. Most can't even get the neutral aspects of games objectively without injecting a little of their own 'experience' which is just a sum of emotions and comparisons to past played games. Games and emotions not everyone experience the same way.

As for lying, this is the internet, and anonymity and a assured lack of accountablity can make anyone say anything without a care in the world. Some do it for fun (trolls), some for a sense of self-righteousness (fanbois), some that are genuinely sincere (but lack experience)...and the list goes on.

I honestly don't see why things like that get you upset OP, words from strangers that you''ll never likely in your life ever meet should affect you like a fart coming from someone's dog in another continent.

Play what you like, ignore the naysayers, make friends with like minded people and you'll enjoy your gaming, facebooking, twittering, blogging, etc all the more. 

 

I 'll wait with trying MMO and see what other people say instead of believing every review I read, and it's no reason for me to get upset, you're right. *calm blue ocean*

lol, sorry if I sounded a little preachy. I sometimes get lost in what I'm writing.

Originally posted by bastii  

CONCRETE EXAMPLES:

IGN preview claiming Aion has no grind:

pc.ign.com/articles/102/1027688p2.html

VS

Eurogamer smashing Aion's grind in every line:

www.eurogamer.net/articles/aion-the-tower-of-eternity-review

I can tell you from playing Aion that IGN was LYING and Eurogamer wasn't. How am *I*..........as a consumer, supposed to take this stuff serious anymore?

Using opinions for concrete examples? You may consider Aion a grind, that doesnt mean everyone who plays it considers it a grind.

Personally I consider a game a grind when it forces me to do quests over and over again in order to get decent experience. I love games that give decent exp from killing mobs so I can skip the quest crap.

Another problem is that serious critical review of games is a very recent phenomenon. Serious review of literature (as an example) while certainly including biased and subjective opinion, will certainly include a body of work upon technical issues (use of allegory, aristotelian unity, character development, subject matter, etc.) fitting into commonly used academic criteria suitable for the genre. Deviation in analysis from the norm will be undertaken only with express reference to the school of thought providing the framework and acording to its rules.

Reviewers should as a result be relied upon to acurately convey common experience even in a field where objectivity would be considered dificult at best. Aplied to gaming reviews, there should be no diference of opinion amongst profesional reviewers as to whether an MMO is grindy or not, as a generally accepted benchmark should be used by most educated people in the trade. Diference of opinion shows only a lack of sotifiscation and readers should be active, as it used to be the norm in printed journalism, to confront opinions and editorials they disagree to through the mail.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

op what part of MASSIVE

   MULTIPLAYER DIDNT YOU  UNDERSTAND

it does say massive everything is massive in a mmo

it is silly to say this game as grind

all starting mmo have grind,wow had it,aion have it

i will tell you go try eq1 then speak about grind

At least the grind in EQ1 required a brain

I cant imagine anyone told you that vanguard had no bugs, especially at release.  You are lying.

Funny...you called all of us MMO player's "normal people". =P

Originally posted by svann

I cant imagine anyone told you that vanguard had no bugs, especially at release. You are lying.

Yeah, I did Beta for Vanguard. It was HORRIBLY buggy. Even after launch for quite some time. Shame too, had potential. Also too bad it looked like everything was cocooned in plastic wrap.

Originally posted by svann

I cant imagine anyone told you that vanguard had no bugs, especially at release.  You are lying.

Up till release I saw no mention of bugs. It wasn't until after release when I read Silky Venom that I found out about the CDT and experiencing the CTD myself. May I remind you that many reviewers gave Vanguard good scores. I'm not claiming no one mentioned it, but at least the articles and the reviews I read didn't include these issues.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Funny...you called all of us MMO player's "normal people". =P

Ya, MMO players seem pretty normal to me, even though many like to claim otherwise, shrug.

A bigger problem are people with an attitude like the OP.

Aion has been released for little over a week now. Apparently when you don't reach the cap level in a week, a game is now a "massive grind". Funny enough, these are often the same people who play through the game and then start complaining a game does not have enough content.

Here is the deal op: The people who said Aion isn't a grind weren't lying. Reaching the cap level in a week is not a good thing. You're expectations of an mmorpg are simply absurd. If you expect to see everything a game has to offer within a week, you're playing the wrong genre.