Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by tyanya

The game is fatally fawed in its core design; its a solo game with all the drawbacks and concessions a massively multiplayer game forces you to accept - on the one hand it offers the customisation choices for you to be anything you could ever want, then on the other it plonks you in a world which doesn't care or react differently no matter what you are or aspire to become.

In this case you simply don't need to team for anything, the experience doesn't change one iota if you do team, the mechanics of what you can do don't change teamed or not and the objectives dont change teamed or not...teaming in CO resolves itself to be purely social, the core design has made it all but irrelevent, just as the dismal lack of vairety in world mechanics makes your choice of powers pretty much irrlelevent...with one path to follow and one method of resolution to every task you are given, all the benefits of customisation and all the advanatages of being part of a community have been rendered null and void.

Couldn't have said it better myself!  For example the world really does not care if you take support powers or not because there are no missions requiring you to have them.

You don't need a tank in a group because every character can pick powers (like better block and passive defensive powers) to make tanks redundant. Same with control powers, no need to use root, confuse, hold, whatever, because missions are so easy that they do not require any of those.

This game is truly designed as a pure soloing game with little to no reason to group at all. Atleast in CoX the missions increased in dificulty if teamed but that is not the case in CO. The core game design is truly flawed so to cater not to soloers but ONLY to soloers.

Now explain what difference CO as with all the other MMO out there, War = I solo the whole game to 40, Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I can go on and on but you get the point, in any of these games you NEED to group. it is not different in CO. If you make a game base on group like FFIV, people will cry, if it's too solo friendly, people will cry.

About the build, you probably didn't any cosmic/legendary fight, because you need a "Tank" and a "healer". Also, the mission are harder when you group, instance or not, if you only run around the map group and attack mob, they will run for back up, If you go in an instance missions group, there will be more mob and more villains/super villains. Defensive power and block are good when you solo, but when you're in a group, you can not out heal/resist the the damage receive when facing a big group/super viain/legendary. There is a lot of these mission around from lvl 9 to lvl 40.

 

The difference is that, in those games, there is plenty of content that requires a group and gives you good rewards. Contrary to what you say there is NOT many legendary missions in CO and those that are dont give more reward than soloing missions so there is no incentive at all to run those missions and hence most people dont.

CO needs more group content or otherwise all that will be left are blind fanboys like you who is not capable of seeing flaws in your "perfect" game. And thankfully there arent that many of you around because if there was then no game would ever improve.

Even if the lack of group content wasn't enough cryptic penalizes you for grouping.  If you don't have the quest you get no xp for finishing the event.  Mobs you kill give something like half the xp you would get solo killing easy mobs.  Loot is non existant.  I ran dr destroyer one time to help people in my supergroup.  I got almost nothing out of it loot or xp wise.  While I love to group it is hard to do it when you get nothing for it...  What ever happened to the risk vs reward thing that was coined in eq so many years ago?  Cryptic I guess didn't get the message...

Originally posted by ethion

Cryptic I guess didn't get the message...

They got the message, but apparently you didn't get the email...

From the email sent out a few days ago:

Mission Tracking Updates! – New ways to share missions with groups, including setting primary missions, making more missions shareable, and granting “Assist Bonuses” if you help complete a mission you don’t have.

Originally posted by ChipSet91

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

There is a need for support powers, Dr Destroyers lab requires a healing and tanking, Teleos and Burial Caves does as well. How did you solo Grond? Even the PQ out side Dr Destroyers lab needs a tank and healer. If you gona make bold sweeping statements make sure you know what you are talking about!

 

There’s no tanking or healing class in CO, thus you don’t need a tank or healer plain and simple. With a total of 3 healing power, a global cool down on Active defense buff and only a few advantages to manage agro; can you really say tank and healer exist in Champion online? Sure, depending of your stance and the power you choose; you can make a hero that as a semblance of a tank or a healer, but in the end you will still have DPS/jack of all trade character. I tried to be a healer, but after my first Dr destroyer factory instance, I realized how pointless that was. I’m level 33 and in my option all you need to beat an instance is:  5 player with passive defense power and an upgrade for block.

You are playing a classless game. Of corse there is not healing and tanking class. Yes you get to design your char so you can fill a team roll and not be gimped solo. My wifes healer char can solo but not as well as my DPS char I designed. She has 3 heal powers, 1 healing pet, and res and self res and a self heal button. Thats 7 powers that she has used to make herself a good healer. Thats about how many my Priest had at launch of WoW and my Cleric in EQ1 at launch. My wife and 2 tanks in my SG are the busiest chars in the SG.

You say there is not need for healer and tank builds. That alone tells me you 1, waited till almost 40 to do the level 28 to 33 content. or 2, you didn't do that content. Solo builds can't do any of the content I listed above. Its death and death after death. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

You say there is not need for healer and tank builds. That alone tells me you 1, waited till almost 40 to do the level 28 to 33 content. or 2, you didn't do that content. Solo builds can't do any of the content I listed above. Its death and death after death. 

I did Dr destroyer factory around level 26-27 and yes I died a lot , I was playing my ‘healer’ and healing agro is pretty messed up in CO right now. I did the tower instance at level 29, with my solo build; there were 2 level 30 in the group died like 4 times or something like that. Finally, I did burial cave at level 33 and cancel my subscription after the instance; again I died like 4 times. So, I’m sorry but solo build work well in instance and since more then 90% of the game is made for solo player, solo builds are the way to go.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by ChipSet91

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

There is a need for support powers, Dr Destroyers lab requires a healing and tanking, Teleos and Burial Caves does as well. How did you solo Grond? Even the PQ out side Dr Destroyers lab needs a tank and healer. If you gona make bold sweeping statements make sure you know what you are talking about!

 

There’s no tanking or healing class in CO, thus you don’t need a tank or healer plain and simple. With a total of 3 healing power, a global cool down on Active defense buff and only a few advantages to manage agro; can you really say tank and healer exist in Champion online? Sure, depending of your stance and the power you choose; you can make a hero that as a semblance of a tank or a healer, but in the end you will still have DPS/jack of all trade character. I tried to be a healer, but after my first Dr destroyer factory instance, I realized how pointless that was. I’m level 33 and in my option all you need to beat an instance is:  5 player with passive defense power and an upgrade for block.

 

You are playing a classless game. Of corse there is not healing and tanking class. Yes you get to design your char so you can fill a team roll and not be gimped solo. My wifes healer char can solo but not as well as my DPS char I designed. She has 3 heal powers, 1 healing pet, and res and self res and a self heal button. Thats 7 powers that she has used to make herself a good healer. Thats about how many my Priest had at launch of WoW and my Cleric in EQ1 at launch. My wife and 2 tanks in my SG are the busiest chars in the SG.

You say there is not need for healer and tank builds. That alone tells me you 1, waited till almost 40 to do the level 28 to 33 content. or 2, you didn't do that content. Solo builds can't do any of the content I listed above. Its death and death after death. 

99% of the missions I have done so far (level 31 now) I have done solo and almost all of them have been 2-3 levels above me. I can kill supervillains 2-3 levels above me so why do I need a group? There are a few that required a group so I grouped a couple of times for those but there needs to be far more than that.

Not saying this because I want everyone to know how leet I am but rather how easy the content in this game is (for a group). Hence you really dont need a group but can solo it just fine.

As for this being a classless game, yeah sure that is what makes it an interesting game, but there are still tank, healer and support roles but as mentioned before you rarely need to have a group and hence roles are abundant. Get some good damage abilities, defensive abilities, maybe a control power and an AoE and you are set to solo 99% of the content and you will level faster than people that group (because it takes time to setup groups and keep them together and the extra bonus isnt that good to warrant it).

So CO is fundamentally built as a wrong game (a solo RPG rather than an MMORPG). Solo leveling is just as fast, if not faster, than group leveling and there is not nearly enough content for groups so what this results in is that the majority of people dont group.

To correct this Cryptic needs to introduce, alot, of group content and the rewards for those group content should be significantly more than solo content so to encourage people to group. That is how it is in almost every MMORPG and that is because people dont pay monthly fees for an online only game when 99% of the time they will spend soloing. That is just against common sense.

As a gaming experience playing in a group is IDENTICAL to playing solo, no matter what the task it resolves to the same mechanic and same linear progress indeed this is the problem with everything about this game; the gameworld, questing, interacting and reaction offered is far far too limited to deliver any variety or change of pace.....teaming or solo in CO therefore simply becomes an arbitrary choice it fails to deliver anything new or different to the player outside the chat streams.

Demanding that certain content is only accessible to a team is imo a very bad solution however, what needs to be tackled is the core variety in what players are given to do and even more importantly the game has to begin to offer different ways to achieve the same goals based on the powers used by each individual when solo and, when grouped, differing play experiences in response to team size and composition...the game desperately has to react to player choices and actions, attempt to involve the player in what is going on (or offer the illusion) or it will remain an empty test bed for pretty costumes and power fx - superficial and empty on every important level and with the sole reward being the very unheroic ego stroking associated with 'look at me'.

Originally posted by Yamota

99% of the missions I have done so far (level 31 now) I have done solo and almost all of them have been 2-3 levels above me. I can kill supervillains 2-3 levels above me so why do I need a group? There are a few that required a group so I grouped a couple of times for those but there needs to be far more than that.

Not saying this because I want everyone to know how leet I am but rather how easy the content in this game is (for a group). Hence you really dont need a group but can solo it just fine.

As for this being a classless game, yeah sure that is what makes it an interesting game, but there are still tank, healer and support roles but as mentioned before you rarely need to have a group and hence roles are abundant. Get some good damage abilities, defensive abilities, maybe a control power and an AoE and you are set to solo 99% of the content and you will level faster than people that group (because it takes time to setup groups and keep them together and the extra bonus isnt that good to warrant it).

So CO is fundamentally built as a wrong game (a solo RPG rather than an MMORPG). Solo leveling is just as fast, if not faster, than group leveling and there is not nearly enough content for groups so what this results in is that the majority of people dont group.

To correct this Cryptic needs to introduce, alot, of group content and the rewards for those group content should be significantly more than solo content so to encourage people to group. That is how it is in almost every MMORPG and that is because people dont pay monthly fees for an online only game when 99% of the time they will spend soloing. That is just against common sense.

Since you keep repeating the same thing over and over, I will repeat myself too, remember, we are taking about launch state:

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

So now, what is different with CO, they all can be solo and have some group content, xp and loot are not better, exept for WoW, where you have a chance to loot something (not garanty).

Good for you if you took all the overpower power to build your toon, you probably always play in defence/balanced build, with regeneration, resurgence, mindful reinforcement, ego storm, condemn, some force power, so basicaly, you have a FOTM build.

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

It's nothing to do with launch state its a direct consequence of the design philosophy.

Originally posted by tyanya

It's nothing to do with launch state its a direct consequence of the design philosophy.

I said launch state because I don't want anyone to tell me that WoW as so much group content, since the game is 5 years old.

The philosophy of all today's game, is to make as much money as possible and have the most player, so yes, it will be dumbdown, solo, some group content, minimum crafting, minimum economy.

But again, people will always complain about something, too much group content or not, to easy or too hard, some class/build OP, not enough loot, no reason to group (if you don't give me something, i don't do it, freaking selfish kid). Go over the CO forum and you will see, one day they had a problem with the patch and all the henchmen were doing the damage of a villain, the game was freaking hard that day and still fun, but people started complaining because they had to group.

Originally posted by tyanya

As a gaming experience playing in a group is IDENTICAL to playing solo, no matter what the task it resolves to the same mechanic and same linear progress indeed this is the problem with everything about this game;

I guess you could say the exact same thing about any MMOG ever produced. Whether you are in a group or not its the same linear progression. Its not like MMOG is suddenly going to become a coop real time strategy game all of a sudden just because you got into a group.

Except in CO the gameplay is absoletely not identical whether you are solo or in a group. The run for help mechanic makes the fights and goals different. Its good to have someone with a quick hold power to stop runners. An AOE high threat character with good defenses can keep the heat off of other group members. A player with a targeted healing power can prevent teamates from dying. I don't think I need to explain every power that can benifit a team because there are so many it would take quite a while. To hear you say that the gameplay is identical only makes me wonder if you ever grouped at all in CO.

It sounds to me that you simply have an issue with linear themepark games, but don't try to pin the problem on CO alone. Nearly every MMOG is a linear themepark. The problem isn't CO in your case, its the current state of the genre.

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

Good for you if you took all the overpower power to build your toon, you probably always play in defence/balanced build, with regeneration, resurgence, mindful reinforcement, ego storm, condemn, some force power, so basicaly, you have a FOTM build.

Haha, actually I dont have a single one of those powers you listed (except some force power). That is the beauty of CO, there are so many viable builds, and unless you intentionally gimp yourself then you can solo from 1-40 and faster than anyone else can group.

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

Yamota, ever tried a sorcery character using sentinel role? It has a fairly distinct play style that makes it play different than any other role. It really does reward a more 'controller' type of play.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier  and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

What I understand, if CO give you something to group, then you will group?

Good for you if you took all the overpower power to build your toon, you probably always play in defence/balanced build, with regeneration, resurgence, mindful reinforcement, ego storm, condemn, some force power, so basicaly, you have a FOTM build.

Haha, actually I dont have a single one of those powers you listed (except some force power). That is the beauty of CO, there are so many viable builds, and unless you intentionally gimp yourself then you can solo from 1-40 and faster than anyone else can group.

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

In fact, they try to sell you the game as classless, but it is still a class base game, the diference is you are not stuck with you class, you can change it whenever you what. Last time I check, I had to choose one Role (class) when I play. There is 4 roles you can choose from defensive (tank), support (healer, CC), offense (DPS) and balance (mixt of def/off). It's not everyone who can change is role and be efficient, let say you want to play a defensive toon, you have to focus on constitution/presence, offensive focus on ego/dexterity, so you are depending on your super stat. If the offensive build change to defensive, he will never generate enough threat to keep the aggro of anyone because he does'st have enough presence.

You might want to check how the game works before saying things like that.

 

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier  and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

One lake per tier? No, you have three lakes per tier (one for every faction pair). And open lake PvP is nothing like CO instanced hero games, which are like WAR scenarios. But where as WAR has over 10 different scenarios and give you better rewards, and some even have an objective, CO lacks in everything but exp and acclaim reward. 

And what about the end-game city raids? Do we have that in CO as well?

So please, dont compare WAR PvP to CO, you are just making a fool out of yourself.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

What I understand, if CO give you something to group, then you will group?

Naturally if there are incentives to group (like content and better rewards and faster exp) people will group. That is how it is in any MMORPG. CO lacks in this department.

Good for you if you took all the overpower power to build your toon, you probably always play in defence/balanced build, with regeneration, resurgence, mindful reinforcement, ego storm, condemn, some force power, so basicaly, you have a FOTM build.

Haha, actually I dont have a single one of those powers you listed (except some force power). That is the beauty of CO, there are so many viable builds, and unless you intentionally gimp yourself then you can solo from 1-40 and faster than anyone else can group.

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

In fact, they try to sell you the game as classless, but it is still a class base game, the diference is you are not stuck with you class, you can change it whenever you what. Last time I check, I had to choose one Role (class) when I play. There is 4 roles you can choose from defensive (tank), support (healer, CC), offense (DPS) and balance (mixt of def/off). It's not everyone who can change is role and be efficient, let say you want to play a defensive toon, you have to focus on constitution/presence, offensive focus on ego/dexterity, so you are depending on your super stat. If the offensive build change to defensive, he will never generate enough threat to keep the aggro of anyone because he does'st have enough presence.

You might want to check how the game works before saying things like that.

I think it is you who are confusing classes with roles. CO has NO classes and can therefore not be based on something that does not exist. CO has different roles that you can take, such as tank, healer, controller or what is most common: a mix of all.

What me, and others, have been saying is that there is really not much point in the different roles because there is very little content that actually requires you to take any of those roles since most of the content in the game is perfectly soloable and because of travel powers you really dont have a frontline and a backline so tanks protecting the backline healers, nukers and controllers is all but impossible so also in PvP there really is no point in picking roles as most seem to pick a mix of all anyway (and melee is broken in PvP since it requires your target to stand still).

 

 

[QUOTE]

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

One lake per tier? No, you have three lakes per tier (one for every faction pair). And open lake PvP is nothing like CO instanced hero games, which are like WAR scenarios. But where as WAR has over 10 different scenarios and give you better rewards, and some even have an objective, CO lacks in everything but exp and acclaim reward.

And what about the end-game city raids? Do we have that in CO as well?

So please, dont compare WAR PvP to CO, you are just making a fool out of yourself.

[/QUOTE]

And might i add, Warhammer also got scenarios on top of all that. Now CO got their Hero Games, but come on, it's all freakign DEATH MATCH. There's no objectives [which WAR's scenarios does have] the entice players to work together.

Plus CO's PvP is not group orientated, come now, it's "free for all" orientated. Hell there's even a hero game that is literally "last man standing, everyone for themselves" ! . How is that group orientated at all?

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier  and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

One lake per tier? No, you have three lakes per tier (one for every faction pair). And open lake PvP is nothing like CO instanced hero games, which are like WAR scenarios. But where as WAR has over 10 different scenarios and give you better rewards, and some even have an objective, CO lacks in everything but exp and acclaim reward. 

And what about the end-game city raids? Do we have that in CO as well?

So please, dont compare WAR PvP to CO, you are just making a fool out of yourself.

Yes you are right, I forgot about the 3 factions, my apologies (still these lake were empty because people were taking one keeps while the other factions was taking it in the other zone). I didn't compare WAR PvP to CO PvP, you brought it up first, since WAR was made as PvP game and CO a PvE game. Yes there was over 10 scenario, but you make a fool of yourself thinking people were playing them at all, Tor Anrok anyone? What about the city raid, when I started WAR, the city raids were so bug and too long to do we never bother with them and I lert the game.

So please, don't compare WAR to CO, WAR is so broken compare to CO.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

What I understand, if CO give you something to group, then you will group?

Naturally if there are incentives to group (like content and better rewards and faster exp) people will group. That is how it is in any MMORPG. CO lacks in this department.

You see there is your problem, you will wait for someone to give you something to group. What about having fun, isn't what playing games is about, oh yes, but you won't have fun if you don't get better xp/loot. I'm not sorry for you, on my side I group all the time, for any missions with my SG, we talk over Ventrilo and do mission. We have a lot more fun than playing alone. Again, I hate WoW generation, before that, there was no need for a reason to do stuff.

Good for you if you took all the overpower power to build your toon, you probably always play in defence/balanced build, with regeneration, resurgence, mindful reinforcement, ego storm, condemn, some force power, so basicaly, you have a FOTM build.

Haha, actually I dont have a single one of those powers you listed (except some force power). That is the beauty of CO, there are so many viable builds, and unless you intentionally gimp yourself then you can solo from 1-40 and faster than anyone else can group.

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

In fact, they try to sell you the game as classless, but it is still a class base game, the diference is you are not stuck with you class, you can change it whenever you what. Last time I check, I had to choose one Role (class) when I play. There is 4 roles you can choose from defensive (tank), support (healer, CC), offense (DPS) and balance (mixt of def/off). It's not everyone who can change is role and be efficient, let say you want to play a defensive toon, you have to focus on constitution/presence, offensive focus on ego/dexterity, so you are depending on your super stat. If the offensive build change to defensive, he will never generate enough threat to keep the aggro of anyone because he does'st have enough presence.

You might want to check how the game works before saying things like that.

I think it is you who are confusing classes with roles. CO has NO classes and can therefore not be based on something that does not exist. CO has different roles that you can take, such as tank, healer, controller or what is most common: a mix of all.

What me, and others, have been saying is that there is really not much point in the different roles because there is very little content that actually requires you to take any of those roles since most of the content in the game is perfectly soloable and because of travel powers you really dont have a frontline and a backline so tanks protecting the backline healers, nukers and controllers is all but impossible so also in PvP there really is no point in picking roles as most seem to pick a mix of all anyway (and melee is broken in PvP since it requires your target to stand still).

When I say class I mean like Tank, DPS, Healer I know there is no class like Druid, Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Ranger (instead they called them Guardian, Avenger.....). But you still have role which almost equal to class at some point and since you have to choose one when you play, the good thing is you can change it whenever you want. This is were I can see the difference between a good player and a bad player in CO, when I group and I see people in defense role without any presence, I know they know nothing about the game and I will die alot, but when I see a defensive player with presence as superstat, I will be ok. The funny thing is, people are free to do whatever they want in that game, so they choose to do a jack of all trades, all out DPS with some defensive power. The problem with these people is when they hit cap lvl, it will be hard for them to find a group, even if you can do anything, groups who run instance and don,t want to die every minute will pick the one with a real build, if they look for DPS, Tank or Healer, they will check if you have the right combination.

 

 

 

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier  and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

One lake per tier? No, you have three lakes per tier (one for every faction pair). And open lake PvP is nothing like CO instanced hero games, which are like WAR scenarios. But where as WAR has over 10 different scenarios and give you better rewards, and some even have an objective, CO lacks in everything but exp and acclaim reward. 

And what about the end-game city raids? Do we have that in CO as well?

So please, dont compare WAR PvP to CO, you are just making a fool out of yourself.

Yes you are right, I forgot about the 3 factions, my apologies (still these lake were empty because people were taking one keeps while the other factions was taking it in the other zone). I didn't compare WAR PvP to CO PvP, you brought it up first, since WAR was made as PvP game and CO a PvE game. Yes there was over 10 scenario, but you make a fool of yourself thinking people were playing them at all, Tor Anrok anyone? What about the city raid, when I started WAR, the city raids were so bug and too long to do we never bother with them and I lert the game.

So please, don't compare WAR to CO, WAR is so broken compare to CO.

Now this discussion is getting out of hand. It was you who compared WAR to CO group aspect by comparing PvE in WAR to PvE in CO where in fact WAR is a PvP game (which you now say is broken). And I played WAR for six months and I can tell you that the game has much more group appeal than CO, and that was from launch day even. Even the scenarios in WAR alone is more group oriented than COs hero games.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

What I understand, if CO give you something to group, then you will group?

Naturally if there are incentives to group (like content and better rewards and faster exp) people will group. That is how it is in any MMORPG. CO lacks in this department.

You see there is your problem, you will wait for someone to give you something to group. What about having fun, isn't what playing games is about, oh yes, but you won't have fun if you don't get better xp/loot. I'm not sorry for you, on my side I group all the time, for any missions with my SG, we talk over Ventrilo and do mission. We have a lot more fun than playing alone. Again, I hate WoW generation, before that, there was no need for a reason to do stuff.

I am talking about why people generally group and most people wont go through the process of getting together a team if there is no more reward than playing solo. You may do it without getting anything out of it (beside having fun) but most players are not like that.

Besides, if the game is barely challenging when I solo the missions, how less challenging will it be if I group? You know most missions are not instanced and hence wont change in dificulty depending on your group size.

And as for the WoW comment, I barely tried WoW, and I have been playing MMORPGs since the launch of UO but even back then people grouped because they needed to, be it for PvP raiding or killing a dragon, but they didnt do it "just because".

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

In fact, they try to sell you the game as classless, but it is still a class base game, the diference is you are not stuck with you class, you can change it whenever you what. Last time I check, I had to choose one Role (class) when I play. There is 4 roles you can choose from defensive (tank), support (healer, CC), offense (DPS) and balance (mixt of def/off). It's not everyone who can change is role and be efficient, let say you want to play a defensive toon, you have to focus on constitution/presence, offensive focus on ego/dexterity, so you are depending on your super stat. If the offensive build change to defensive, he will never generate enough threat to keep the aggro of anyone because he does'st have enough presence.

You might want to check how the game works before saying things like that.

I think it is you who are confusing classes with roles. CO has NO classes and can therefore not be based on something that does not exist. CO has different roles that you can take, such as tank, healer, controller or what is most common: a mix of all.

What me, and others, have been saying is that there is really not much point in the different roles because there is very little content that actually requires you to take any of those roles since most of the content in the game is perfectly soloable and because of travel powers you really dont have a frontline and a backline so tanks protecting the backline healers, nukers and controllers is all but impossible so also in PvP there really is no point in picking roles as most seem to pick a mix of all anyway (and melee is broken in PvP since it requires your target to stand still).

When I say class I mean like Tank, DPS, Healer I know there is no class like Druid, Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Ranger (instead they called them Guardian, Avenger.....). But you still have role which almost equal to class at some point and since you have to choose one when you play, the good thing is you can change it whenever you want. This is were I can see the difference between a good player and a bad player in CO, when I group and I see people in defense role without any presence, I know they know nothing about the game and I will die alot, but when I see a defensive player with presence as superstat, I will be ok. The funny thing is, people are free to do whatever they want in that game, so they choose to do a jack of all trades, all out DPS with some defensive power. The problem with these people is when they hit cap lvl, it will be hard for them to find a group, even if you can do anything, groups who run instance and don,t want to die every minute will pick the one with a real build, if they look for DPS, Tank or Healer, they will check if you have the right combination.

Yeah this is all true. But the problem is that there is not enough content to group for and the content that does exist does not have good rewards and that is where the problem lies. CO has a good system for switching roles and building either your own unique role or a traditional tank, healer etc (which I doubt should exist in a Super Hero game but that is another issue).

That is not the problem, CO does it fine, the problem is that the CONTENT for encourage people to group simply is not there. Super Villains can easily be soloed and since any tougher mobs than that is very rare you dont generally need a group.

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by ghost047

War = I solo the whole game to 40, I don't recall any group content between lvl 1-39 at launch, and if there was, it was not alot because our entire guild never mention it.

I played WAR as well and WAR is mainly an RvR game and there is no way you could have taken over keeps solo. Also many of the Open Quests, which gave good loot, were not soloable. There was alot of content that was for soloers but that is fine, the problem in CO that there is almost no content for groups.

But there is only 1 RvR lake per tier  and it's PvP, of course it's group oriented, exactly like in CO when you PvP.

One lake per tier? No, you have three lakes per tier (one for every faction pair). And open lake PvP is nothing like CO instanced hero games, which are like WAR scenarios. But where as WAR has over 10 different scenarios and give you better rewards, and some even have an objective, CO lacks in everything but exp and acclaim reward. 

And what about the end-game city raids? Do we have that in CO as well?

So please, dont compare WAR PvP to CO, you are just making a fool out of yourself.

Yes you are right, I forgot about the 3 factions, my apologies (still these lake were empty because people were taking one keeps while the other factions was taking it in the other zone). I didn't compare WAR PvP to CO PvP, you brought it up first, since WAR was made as PvP game and CO a PvE game. Yes there was over 10 scenario, but you make a fool of yourself thinking people were playing them at all, Tor Anrok anyone? What about the city raid, when I started WAR, the city raids were so bug and too long to do we never bother with them and I lert the game.

So please, don't compare WAR to CO, WAR is so broken compare to CO.

Now this discussion is getting out of hand. It was you who compared WAR to CO group aspect by comparing PvE in WAR to PvE in CO where in fact WAR is a PvP game (which you now say is broken). And I played WAR for six months and I can tell you that the game has much more group appeal than CO, and that was from launch day even. Even the scenarios in WAR alone is more group oriented than COs hero games.

And the whole friggin game revolves against thos group of factions vs another group of factions and to effectively fight that conflict you need a group. CO does not even have different factions which you can pick so you can fight against each other and that is another big misstake on Cryptics part.

Vanguard = I solo the whole game to lvl cap, There was some group quest you could've done group, but depending on your class, you didn't need a group to do it.

WoW = You can solo all the way to lvl 80, There is 1-2 group instance every 10 lvl or so, but beside that, nothing more, you can solo.

Aion = You can, again solo all the time. I never had to group from lvl 1-25, again depending on your class.

On these three, you can solo in all three, there is nothing wrong with being able to solo. However there are substantial rewards for doing group activities in all of those games and there was quite alof of it. The problem again, with CO, is that there is almost none and those that exist does not have particulary better rewards than the solo content. Hence most people solo since there is no incentive to group.

What I understand, if CO give you something to group, then you will group?

Naturally if there are incentives to group (like content and better rewards and faster exp) people will group. That is how it is in any MMORPG. CO lacks in this department.

You see there is your problem, you will wait for someone to give you something to group. What about having fun, isn't what playing games is about, oh yes, but you won't have fun if you don't get better xp/loot. I'm not sorry for you, on my side I group all the time, for any missions with my SG, we talk over Ventrilo and do mission. We have a lot more fun than playing alone. Again, I hate WoW generation, before that, there was no need for a reason to do stuff.

I am talking about why people generally group and most people wont go through the process of getting together a team if there is no more reward than playing solo. You may do it without getting anything out of it (beside having fun) but most players are not like that.

Besides, if the game is barely challenging when I solo the missions, how less challenging will it be if I group? You know most missions are not instanced and hence wont change in dificulty depending on your group size.

And as for the WoW comment, I barely tried WoW, and I have been playing MMORPGs since the launch of UO but even back then people grouped because they needed to, be it for PvP raiding or killing a dragon, but they didnt do it "just because".

I have 7 toon so far, all with different build, my tank can hardly solo (doesn't do enough DPS), my cc toon is not so bad but hard against super villain........of course I can take all the OP power for every toon, but the only difference each toon will have is the costume. Try to play the game for fun (instead of playing it for loot and xp, stupid WoW mentality). Make to make a concept hero instean of going with the FOTM and will enjoy the game a lot more.

 Right, so I should gimp myself (because you think that is a more "fun" way playing the game) and then I will need a group. Great idea. Btw this whole tank, controller mentality, and your continuing mention of FOTM, just shows that you arent playing the game as was intended. CO is not a class based MMORPG and hence you can pick whatever powers you like. It seems like you are trying to recreate class based characters and then you say it is me who are not playing the game as it should be where in fact it is you who havent understood the concept of the power system.

In fact, they try to sell you the game as classless, but it is still a class base game, the diference is you are not stuck with you class, you can change it whenever you what. Last time I check, I had to choose one Role (class) when I play. There is 4 roles you can choose from defensive (tank), support (healer, CC), offense (DPS) and balance (mixt of def/off). It's not everyone who can change is role and be efficient, let say you want to play a defensive toon, you have to focus on constitution/presence, offensive focus on ego/dexterity, so you are depending on your super stat. If the offensive build change to defensive, he will never generate enough threat to keep the aggro of anyone because he does'st have enough presence.

You might want to check how the game works before saying things like that.

I think it is you who are confusing classes with roles. CO has NO classes and can therefore not be based on something that does not exist. CO has different roles that you can take, such as tank, healer, controller or what is most common: a mix of all.

What me, and others, have been saying is that there is really not much point in the different roles because there is very little content that actually requires you to take any of those roles since most of the content in the game is perfectly soloable and because of travel powers you really dont have a frontline and a backline so tanks protecting the backline healers, nukers and controllers is all but impossible so also in PvP there really is no point in picking roles as most seem to pick a mix of all anyway (and melee is broken in PvP since it requires your target to stand still).

When I say class I mean like Tank, DPS, Healer I know there is no class like Druid, Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Ranger (instead they called them Guardian, Avenger.....). But you still have role which almost equal to class at some point and since you have to choose one when you play, the good thing is you can change it whenever you want. This is were I can see the difference between a good player and a bad player in CO, when I group and I see people in defense role without any presence, I know they know nothing about the game and I will die alot, but when I see a defensive player with presence as superstat, I will be ok. The funny thing is, people are free to do whatever they want in that game, so they choose to do a jack of all trades, all out DPS with some defensive power. The problem with these people is when they hit cap lvl, it will be hard for them to find a group, even if you can do anything, groups who run instance and don,t want to die every minute will pick the one with a real build, if they look for DPS, Tank or Healer, they will check if you have the right combination.

Yeah this is all true. But the problem is that there is not enough content to group for and the content that does exist does not have good rewards and that is where the problem lies. CO has a good system for switching roles and building either your own unique role or a traditional tank, healer etc (which I doubt should exist in a Super Hero game but that is another issue).

That is not the problem, CO does it fine, the problem is that the CONTENT for encourage people to group simply is not there. Super Villains can easily be soloed and since any tougher mobs than that is very rare you dont generally need a group.