...you consider  grouping up a hassle???

I've been roaming around this immense forum now for a while, and I have come across several loud complaints about MMOs having a 'need' for grouping up to progress further...a need to get a group to progress in the 'story' etc. I'm of the social sort, and group up when I have the chance to. Both to complete the tasks above, and to meet new people...AND...have fun with people I already know. I thought grouping up was the intent when the gaming studios started making MMOs??....to play with other people etc.

Why would you pay to play on an online server, if you could get immense, story driven RPGs to have all to yourself...without the need to group???

I know that not everyone have the time it takes to get a pug for low-level group quests and other things it takes several low lvles to work together....especially in an old game where the 'newbie' zones most often are deserted, but I find that asking a high lvl also often yields a positive result. With a little effort most such tasks can be done in a timely manner...

Anyway...anyone up for answering my question :) preferably without taking my head off. I'm just wondering...that's all...hehe

Generally speaking, I believe people don't necessarily want to group together in order to have fun. Lots of people play MMOs in order to escape to a different world and/or have a shared experience with others. They'd like to be part of a different society. It's not always just about playing through the quests with other people.

Originally posted by hailtothor

...you consider  grouping up a hassle???

I've been roaming around this immense forum now for a while, and I have come across several loud complaints about MMOs having a 'need' for grouping up to progress further...a need to get a group to progress in the 'story' etc. I'm of the social sort, and group up when I have the chance to. Both to complete the tasks above, and to meet new people...AND...have fun with people I already know. I thought grouping up was the intent when the gaming studios started making MMOs??....to play with other people etc.

Why would you pay to play on an online server, if you could get immense, story driven RPGs to have all to yourself...without the need to group???

I know that not everyone have the time it takes to get a pug for low-level group quests and other things it takes several low lvles to work together....especially in an old game where the 'newbie' zones most often are deserted, but I find that asking a high lvl also often yields a positive result. With a little effort most such tasks can be done in a timely manner...

Anyway...anyone up for answering my question :) preferably without taking my head off. I'm just wondering...that's all...hehe

Blue - It should be an option but not a requirement.  Some things, especially towards end game should be more group progression rather than solo progression.  Solo progression can only go so far.  Example for me...I loved FFXI but I just couldn't play it because I never had the time to sit around and wait and wait on a group to form.  By the time I got a group together and everyone got to where we needed to be I was ready to go do something else.  Sitting around for 20 - 30 minutes waiting for a group/ everyone to get where they need to be is not my idea of fun.  I do not enjoy waiting on others...I do have patience but when bobby has to go get regs, sally forgot her tank gear in the bank, and joe bob forgot the way to go then my patience wears thin at that point.

Red - That is who YOU are, not everyone is the same as you.  I'm sure you know this and it was pretty self explanatory but just pointing it out to you that you are viewing it through your likes and dislikes...think of how others may feel.  The guy with 3 kids, a job and 1 hour a day to relax and he's trying to do it with an MMO.

Tan - I like to converse with others.  I may not want to group with them all the time but sometimes I do.  It's the fact that I have the possibility of grouping with friends rather than HAVING to group with people or having the option to do my own thing.  Options ARE good.  What if you went to buy a new camaro and they told you all they had was puke green for colors to offer you.   I would still want it but I would be happier if I had the option for red...or yellow. 

For me it's when you do lots of quests and suddenly you need to have a group to be able to do one and theres noone around to group up with you then it becomes annoying. I don't mind grouping because it's more fun soloing but these games are made where everyones at the end level so being forced to group when you're not at end level is annoying because theres noone around.

Originally posted by thafireball

.I loved FFXI but I just couldn't play it because I never had the time to sit around and wait and wait on a group to form.  By the time I got a group together and everyone got to where we needed to be I was ready to go do something else.  Sitting around for 20 - 30 minutes waiting for a group/ everyone to get where they need to be is not my idea of fun.  I do not enjoy waiting on others...I do have patience but when bobby has to go get regs, sally forgot her tank gear in the bank, and joe bob forgot the way to go then my patience wears thin at that point.

So the companies just need to make the grouping less of a headache, that's all. It's not the grouping that's at fault for that, it's simply because the current systems suck.

Grouping doesn't have to be like you described it. And if it wasn't, what excuses would players have to not group up then? "I want to play alone"- sure, there's millions of single player games out there, go ahead and play them. MMO's should use the special features they have compared to single player games like the ability to group to their advantage.

Because MMOs offer things single player games dont. I dont want to group at all, but I like to duo with my wife. I like playing in the economy game, and I like to show off. I also like to PvP a bit, and I like to chat at times. In a single player game, if you get an item you dont need, you just get to vendor it. Barely worth picking up. But in an MMO, you have the chance at finding something awesome, and striking it rich. If I want to craft to sell to other people, singleplayer games just dont give the satisfaction.

MMOs are not just about grouping, and they shouldnt be either. They stem from MUDs, and you did not need groups for that either.

Originally posted by Baoghal

Generally speaking, I believe people don't necessarily want to group together in order to have fun. Lots of people play MMOs in order to escape to a different world and/or have a shared experience with others. They'd like to be part of a different society. It's not always just about playing through the quests with other people.

I can see what you mean, but I still don't think that you need to play an MMO to achieve that, as you still share the expeiereince of a game on an online forums etc. But yeah...I can see why someone would play MMOs just for that...good answer.
 

Grouping can be cumbersome and annoying at times but I believe there should be group content that can not be soloed. Thats basically what its all about. Grouping making new allies/friends.Learning who can and can not be trusted. Do I think you shouldnt be able to solo? No because I solo 50% of the time in play mmos myself but I agree with content that can not be soloed as long as all the content isnt that way.

Originally posted by thafireball

Originally posted by hailtothor

<--op goes here-->

 

Blue - It should be an option but not a requirement.  Some things, especially towards end game should be more group progression rather than solo progression.  Solo progression can only go so far.  Example for me...I loved FFXI but I just couldn't play it because I never had the time to sit around and wait and wait on a group to form.  By the time I got a group together and everyone got to where we needed to be I was ready to go do something else.  Sitting around for 20 - 30 minutes waiting for a group/ everyone to get where they need to be is not my idea of fun.  I do not enjoy waiting on others...I do have patience but when bobby has to go get regs, sally forgot her tank gear in the bank, and joe bob forgot the way to go then my patience wears thin at that point.

Red - That is who YOU are, not everyone is the same as you.  I'm sure you know this and it was pretty self explanatory but just pointing it out to you that you are viewing it through your likes and dislikes...think of how others may feel.  The guy with 3 kids, a job and 1 hour a day to relax and he's trying to do it with an MMO.

Tan - I like to converse with others.  I may not want to group with them all the time but sometimes I do.  It's the fact that I have the possibility of grouping with friends rather than HAVING to group with people or having the option to do my own thing.  Options ARE good.  What if you went to buy a new camaro and they told you all they had was puke green for colors to offer you.   I would still want it but I would be happier if I had the option for red...or yellow. 

I can see the frustration of waiting and waiting for a pug to form, and the way some of them breaks up :)...and to a certain degree I share your view at optional grouping in the early lvls, but I still think the major storylines (towards the end of the game) and the endgame should be experienced in a group.
 

What you outline in red was just my way of explaining why I asked what I asked, but I think you knew that ;)...and I want to see it through other eyes...which is...again...why I asked ;)

...and I can see your last point too...just having the conversations without the need to play with them. I can see a guild comming in to play here...where there's (generally) people you like etc...didn't think of that point. Thanks...

Originally posted by Varny

For me it's when you do lots of quests and suddenly you need to have a group to be able to do one and theres noone around to group up with you then it becomes annoying. I don't mind grouping because it's more fun soloing but these games are made where everyones at the end level so being forced to group when you're not at end level is annoying because theres noone around.

 

Yeah...as I wrote in the original post, I know about those limitations, but a good way to come around these, are to go and ask a friendly high-lvl to help you. Yes...you may need to use some time to find someone that may help you, but even though there's a few idiots playing an MMO, many of us gladly helps if asked nicely. :)
 

It's not that people don't want to group.

It's that people don't want to group ALL the time.
It's that people want to group out of choice, not necessity.
It's that people want to choose who to group with and when.
It's that people want the choice not to group if they don't feel like it.
It's that people want to interact with the community in other ways.

Grouping is a choice; it's not the only one. MMOs should offer as many as possible; that's what freedom of gameplay is all about, isn't it? .. the choice to do what you want to do in a world full of other players?

Originally posted by Rallycart

Because MMOs offer things single player games dont. I dont want to group at all, but I like to duo with my wife. I like playing in the economy game, and I like to show off. I also like to PvP a bit, and I like to chat at times. In a single player game, if you get an item you dont need, you just get to vendor it. Barely worth picking up. But in an MMO, you have the chance at finding something awesome, and striking it rich. If I want to craft to sell to other people, singleplayer games just dont give the satisfaction.

MMOs are not just about grouping, and they shouldnt be either. They stem from MUDs, and you did not need groups for that either.

I haven't thought of the economy as a reason to play an MMO. Shame on me...because I do exactly as you too. I play the AH's when available...the trade channels etc. I like to craft for sale, and farm for sale. Ok...valid point and post..hehe. Thanks for your answer. 
 

Sidenote: I envy the fact that you play with your wife...mine has a certain ammount of  'spousal aggro' towards any game that takes up my time...

Originally posted by hailtothor

Sidenote: I envy the fact that you play with your wife...mine has a certain ammount of  'spousal aggro' towards any game that takes up my time...

So does mine, unless she is playing the same game. :P Quite a double standard. Hit up 6 shoe shops before deciding on a pair? No problem. Go into Gamestop for 5 mins to check out the new releases? Hell no. lol.

Seriously though, she is pretty good about it. But I cant play an MMO that she doesn't play if I want any sort of a happy day.

Originally posted by hailtothor

Originally posted by Baoghal

Generally speaking, I believe people don't necessarily want to group together in order to have fun. Lots of people play MMOs in order to escape to a different world and/or have a shared experience with others. They'd like to be part of a different society. It's not always just about playing through the quests with other people.

I can see what you mean, but I still don't think that you need to play an MMO to achieve that, as you still share the expeiereince of a game on an online forums etc. But yeah...I can see why someone would play MMOs just for that...good answer.
 

I don't know why you need to pay to play an MMO to be a part of a group. There are plenty of  games out there that don't charge monthly subs that offer that team play environment you want, like Counterstrike and Call of Duty. If fantasy is your thing, then there is always NWN2 and the persistent worlds. People who group in MMOs will have a counter to everyone of those suggestions, just like solo'ers will always have a counter to groupers suggestions. The point of grouping or not grouping in MMOs is beyond moot. I don't think the designers of the first MMOs wanted it to be only about group play. It's about how they could keep you paying them month after month after month.

Originally posted by gringemore

Grouping can be cumbersome and annoying at times but I believe there should be group content that can not be soloed. Thats basically what its all about. Grouping making new allies/friends.Learning who can and can not be trusted. Do I think you shouldnt be able to solo? No because I solo 50% of the time in play mmos myself but I agree with content that can not be soloed as long as all the content isnt that way.

That is essentially what I look for in a game too. :) Although I probably do a lot more grouping that you do, as I really like the social part of it...much more than I need to to get through content at least. :)
 

Originally posted by Rallycart

Originally posted by hailtothor

Sidenote: I envy the fact that you play with your wife...mine has a certain ammount of  'spousal aggro' towards any game that takes up my time...

 

So does mine, unless she is playing the same game. :P Quite a double standard. Hit up 6 shoe shops before deciding on a pair? No problem. Go into Gamestop for 5 mins to check out the new releases? Hell no. lol.

Seriously though, she is pretty good about it. But I cant play an MMO that she doesn't play if I want any sort of a happy day.

well...I have cut dramatically the amount of time I use on MMOs these days...and home life has improved a lot. I guess she was right, as I see the improvement too. I just wish she could at least find one game she'd like...hehe. 
 

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

It's not that people don't want to group.

It's that people don't want to group ALL the time.
It's that people want to group out of choice, not necessity.
It's that people want to choose who to group with and when.
It's that people want the choice not to group if they don't feel like it.
It's that people want to interact with the community in other ways.

Grouping is a choice; it's not the only one. MMOs should offer as many as possible; that's what freedom of gameplay is all about, isn't it? .. the choice to do what you want to do in a world full of other players?

People don't have to group all the time- they can play single player games all they want, they're not forced to do anything they don't want to do.

People choose to play MMO's, so it's not a necessity, it's a choice.

Even in a group-driven MMO there's always things you can do alone, like crafting. 

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

It's not that people don't want to group.

It's that people don't want to group ALL the time.
It's that people want to group out of choice, not necessity.
It's that people want to choose who to group with and when.
It's that people want the choice not to group if they don't feel like it.
It's that people want to interact with the community in other ways.

Grouping is a choice; it's not the only one. MMOs should offer as many as possible; that's what freedom of gameplay is all about, isn't it? .. the choice to do what you want to do in a world full of other players?

People don't have to group all the time- they can play single player games all they want, they're not forced to do anything they don't want to do.

People choose to play MMO's, so it's not a necessity, it's a choice.

Even in a group-driven MMO there's always things you can do alone, like crafting. 

Or.. they can play MMOs that support solo play, i.e. the vast majority of them.

Sorry, but the "all groupin' all the time" is a minority mindset and as such your crowd doesn't get to make the decisions on what content goes into MMOs. That choice is down to the developer and their financiers and it doesn't take a genius to predict which decision they are going to make.

I can play a single player game to always solo.
You can play online FPS games to always group.

MMO's should offer the choice.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Or.. they can play MMOs that support solo play, i.e. the vast majority of them.

Sorry, but the "all groupin' all the time" is a minority mindset and as such your crowd doesn't get to make the decisions on what content goes into MMOs. That choice is down to the developer and their financiers and it doesn't take a genius to predict which decision they are going to make.

I can play a single player game to always solo.
You can play online FPS games to always group.

MMO's should offer the choice.

There's no choice if the minority is ignored. There is a choice if the minority gets their own game (which won't happen with your mindset). Also, Online FPS != Online RPG.

Originally posted by hailtothor

...you consider  grouping up a hassle???

Because people have free will and choose to.

I've been roaming around this immense forum now for a while, and I have come across several loud complaints about MMOs having a 'need' for grouping up to progress further...a need to get a group to progress in the 'story' etc. I'm of the social sort, and group up when I have the chance to. Both to complete the tasks above, and to meet new people...AND...have fun with people I already know. I thought grouping up was the intent when the gaming studios started making MMOs??....to play with other people etc.

There is where you went wrong.  You thought you had all the answers.  The intent of gaming studios was to make money.  Playing with other people is far different then depending on other people.  But I guess you were to busy thinking game studios made mmos to group.

Why would you pay to play on an online server, if you could get immense, story driven RPGs to have all to yourself...without the need to group???

You don't understand the difference between playing alone and being alone.  Until you understand this concept you can't really have a informed discussion.

I know that not everyone have the time it takes to get a pug for low-level group quests and other things it takes several low lvles to work together....especially in an old game where the 'newbie' zones most often are deserted, but I find that asking a high lvl also often yields a positive result. With a little effort most such tasks can be done in a timely manner...

So instead of having soloing you'd rather have people pestering higher levels people all the time?

Anyway...anyone up for answering my question :) preferably without taking my head off. I'm just trolling ...that's all...hehe

Corrected for accuracy because all of these discussing have been discussed time and time again.

 I still don't understand why people want to blame the cause (soloers) instead of the effect (broken ass grouping mechanics).  Maybe if grouping mechanics didn't work like a off line rpgs more people would group.