Originally posted by hailtothor

...tend to defend their game of choice almost religiously. If someone doesn't like the game you play...well...so what???

It's the way our brains are wired.

Our brains love encapsulating complex patterns into simple ideas.  This saves us from having to suffer through the lengthy process of active thought when we come across the pattern again.

Our brains are also limited physically in terms of how many people we can coexist peacefully with (article: What is the Monkeysphere?)

Between these two traits, "us vs. them" emerges.  It encapsulates the pattern nicely to say that everyone not part of Us is inferior in some way.  "Us" being any sort of group you identify with:

• Players of videogame X.  (ie the MMORPG you play)
• Members of faction Y  (ie "Alliance players are stupid")
• Players of class Z  (ie "Rogues are jerk kids.")

(These brain traits are important for forum posts too.  For some readers, they'll never read this sentence I'm writing because it's too deep in a post which is no longer short and simple (but instead is about some random "Axehilt" guy talking nonsense about the brain when he only learned it thirdhand from a book on Game Design written by a guy who himself learned it from someone.)  Basically our brains hate being bogged down by information they deem is "too detailed" - much like my explanation about the book was too detailed.

So even reading forum posts, brains actively try to encapsulate patterns into simple ideas.  It's part of why a lot of readers will skim, and read the first sentence of each paragraph to get the idea of what's being said.  Which is why it's good to summarize each paragraph in the first line if you can ;)  )

As long as it's within the forum rules. Traffic helps this site you know. And if someone post a topic, people will reply. Discussion about games is good. Even negative discussion. As long as we keep it clean. Usually the first one to go personal is the one with no valid argument. Discussion about other posters is off-topic.(99% of the time) Use the report button or argue their points.

There are exceptions of coarse, and we all fall to the temptation. Very, very few are innocent here. And again, traffic helps this site.

Originally posted by MacScarfe

Anonymity + Internet = 733t rage

The lack of consequences one has on the internet is such a potent drug that it makes many many people overdose just for the novelty of the experience

Either that or there just Wankers

This.  And it doesn't just pertain to video games.  Every topic on the internet is like this.  Just look at all the stupid responses on youtube alone. 

Just to add another factor that I think adds to the heated discussions that often erupt into flame wars:

Miscommunication.

I first began to notice this on a PvP Thread where every person had a different definition of pvp.

If you ask somewhat what Newbie is, some people will say "someone who just started playing the game". Others will say, "Someone who has not yet experienced end game" and yet others will attach an active time limit to it.

Same with PvP. In the thread I mentioned, one person defined PvP as honorable equal numbered combat. Other people defined it more chaotically, stating that it didn't have to be equal numbered to be PvP. The end result was, of course, a flame fest.

I sometimes wonder if we had set forth static definitions for terms when MMOs first started up, would we still have as much miscommunication ending in flames?

Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

Just to add another factor that I think adds to the heated discussions that often erupt into flame wars:

Miscommunication.

I first began to notice this on a PvP Thread where every person had a different definition of pvp.

If you ask somewhat what Newbie is, some people will say "someone who just started playing the game". Others will say, "Someone who has not yet experienced end game" and yet others will attach an active time limit to it.

Same with PvP. In the thread I mentioned, one person defined PvP as honorable equal numbered combat. Other people defined it more chaotically, stating that it didn't have to be equal numbered to be PvP. The end result was, of course, a flame fest.

I sometimes wonder if we had set forth static definitions for terms when MMOs first started up, would we still have as much miscommunication ending in flames?

Yes, we would. But, information you seek can be crystal clear if you are only looking at words and meaning, without letting yourself judge the poster. It's hard, and sometimes easy depending on your situation. Usually it's just normal human behavior. People take their hobbies seriously. And people can post in circles when there is no such thing as being wrong on video game forums. Have fun is all I can say.

Because everyone is entitled to their own opinions, which are bound to create differences between people.  This forum is meant for players to discuss their opinions.  That is why they say their game is cool and yours is not, because that is what they believe, but don't expect everyone to act modestly about their beliefs.

Don't post with the expectation for others to conform to your beliefs, and there will be no problem.

I'm wondering if anyone thinks anyone who defends the game will change their ways now.

Originally posted by Murdus

I'm wondering if anyone thinks anyone who defends the game will change their ways now.

hehe...probably not...but I'm glad more people than me care about this...and I'm glad so many answered a post written in frustration over having to wade through loads of shit to get to the posts that matter :)
 

Originally posted by hailtothor

Taste is like the ass people...it's divided. 

...

Some likes the daughter, and others go for the mother...it's a fact of life.

/rant 

Man, these analogies made me laugh.

And...  I agree with you.  I wish there was less bitching and more constructive talk.

Originally posted by hailtothor

...tend to defend their game of choice almost religiously. If someone doesn't like the game you play...well...so what??? Is it the end of the world if someone can't stand the graphics, the story or the extensive grind of your favorite MMO??? I get the need to defend thing you like, but getting angry and rude over it. Is it really any need??? Why not just ignore them??

Then there's the other question...Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...feel the need to make fun of the games other people play...It's not like the other people are stupid, because they can't see the 'benefit' of your game is it???? Do they really need to be playing your game to be 'cool'.

Taste is like the ass people...it's divided. I'm rather new on this forum...I know that...but in the time I have been here, I have seen so, so many threads ending up in just general shit throwing...and yes...I know by posting this I probably just inflame another shitstorm. I just had to post it, because there's no need to be so freaking rude all the time...and it's not fun having to wade through hours of needless and childish fighting to get to a good point in a thread...

Some likes the daughter, and others go for the mother...it's a fact of life.

/rant 

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...start daft and pointless threads on forums INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES asking why people have heated debates???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...have such thin skins that they get upset by what someone says on a forum INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...put three question marks at the end of their questions in an attempt to make them seem really deep and meaningful even though the questions are extremely naive and simplistic??? Oh dear have I just said something deeply offensive and rude??? Have I come across as being insulting???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...add bizzare and crude comments referencing having sex with mothers and daughters knowing that kids use these forums??? Is this an attempt by the OP to bond with his fellow chest beating man by trying to come across as being macho and manly???

Now remember you cant reply with anything rude or offensive even if you feel that I am a jerk and what I have typed irritates you slightly. According to you you must turn the other cheek and refrain from replying to someone who you disagree with even though this is a forum INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES. You must respect my view point even if you disagree with it and think I am wrong.

ps. Taste is like the ass?! Ermm sorry I'm afraid I cant comment as I generally dont go in for licking peoples asses. If thats your thing though then thats fine. You're not doing anyone any harm afterall.

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...start daft and pointless threads on forums INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES asking why people have heated debates???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...have such thin skins that they get upset by what someone says on a forum INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...put three question marks at the end of their questions in an attempt to make them seem really deep and meaningful even though the questions are extremely naive and simplistic??? Oh dear have I just said something deeply offensive and rude??? Have I come across as being insulting???

Why do MMO gamers...or again...gamers in general...add bizzare and crude comments referencing having sex with mothers and daughters knowing that kids use these forums??? Is this an attempt by the OP to bond with his fellow chest beating man by trying to come across as being macho and manly???

Now remember you cant reply with anything rude or offensive even if you feel that I am a jerk and what I have typed irritates you slightly. According to you you must turn the other cheek and refrain from replying to someone who you disagree with even though this is a forum INTENDED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DEBATES ABOUT GAMES. You must respect my view point even if you disagree with it and think I am wrong.

ps. Taste is like the ass?! Ermm sorry I'm afraid I cant comment as I generally dont go in for licking peoples asses. If thats your thing though then thats fine. You're not doing anyone any harm afterall.

Debates yes...that is exactly my point. Debates are fine...pointless, stupid and rude arguing, are just stupid and has no place in a proper debate. Guess what category I think your post falls under...
 

Heh, I guess some people are very opiniated about their passions. I don't mind people correcting each other on factual errors, but when opinions start evolving into flame wars, that's when I start to shake my head. Let them continue to defend their pride online; the rest of us don't have to lower ourselves to their standards by taking part.

Well to answer the OPs question...

(a) There is a difference between constructive criticism and a rant. However, you can be iconclastic so long as your criticism is well reasoned and structured. 

The real difference I guess is between formal criticism (official reviews etc that require a stonger degree of evidence, reason and balance) and informal criticism, which you tend to find on forums and which is less constrained by formal conventions and thus far more subjective.

Of course, this means that forum reviews/critiques are a mixed bag from illiterate offensive rants to well-reasoned reviews that, although more subjective than formal reviews, are nonetheless professionally written and entertaining. 

So the negative idea of criticism and flaming you refer to in your post only apply to those posts that are written by illiterate and unbalanced posters. There are many more great posts here written by people who want to share and debate their views.

It is perfectly ok to fight over games, to critique and defend with passion; that is after all what these forums are for. The only difference is between mature, well-written posts and infantile, badly-written ones. However, I can forgive an infantile post if it is funny and witty.

So your post seems to conflate badly written and rude hate-rants with legitimate and heated debates - which sometimes get a little rough - over games; there is a big difference between the two types of post.

(b) People defend or attack games "religiously" because many players invest a great deal of time and energy into their games. This is nothing new. My father and brother and brother-in-laws are huge football fans and you should hear them shout and rage and rant over football. It is a big part of their lives, and it is the same for mmorpgs for us gamers. It is a sign of how healthy the mmorpg culture is. It shows we care!

(c) Now people taking pot shots at other games and defending their own games. Also perfectively legitimate and healthy depending on the quality of the post. The mmorpg market is a highly competitive market were many released and in-development games want your money and your time. Although some of us play more than one mmorpg, most only play one so it's a bit like owning a car or a gaming laptop, than say a can of beer - brand loyalty is thus quite strong with mmorpgs.  People put their all eggs in one basket and so the feelings, loyalties or sense of betrayal (if things go wrong) are all the more acute. Seems normal, given this context, that you have so many fanbois and haters.

(d) Games themselves enable people to behave like larger-than-life heroes or bad-asses. You play mmorpgs for so long and your online persona gets submerged in this bravado. You are a 17 year old virgin with acne who gets sand kicked in his face by the jocks? No longer, you are Moroth, a bad ass wizard who is respected by his team-mates for his skill at the game and his uber gear. You are an over-weight 40 something in a dead-end job? No, longer you are a guild-leader for a raiding guild, someone who is respected and looked upon as a leader by 200+ guildmates. I give the negative examples deliberately to show the allure of anonymous online personas. We feel powerful as hell as our toons, we tend to find it difficult to slip out of that feelng of grandure and bad-assness in these virtual discussion forums.

Normally meek and polite in real life, we talk like Ice Cube on the forums cos here we are continuing to play with our virtual identity. This is also perfectly normal and if you randomly read a collection of posts on these forums, just listen to the tone - highly self-assertive and self-assured, frequently using bad-ass tough-guy Mohammed Ali talk and utterly indignant should any "insect" contradict or challenge them. Again, perfectly normal given the way that pvp/pve in mmorpgs magnifies our  sense of power and self-worth. When we come here we are hybrid: a little bit of ourselves and whole lot of our toon(s) identity.

Seems all perfectly healthy to me.

Regards

Melmolth