Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

Id like you to elaborate on your understanding that the game will suck when they have people they aren't paying beta testing the game.

What I'm about to say is just silly, but...

The company that is making Mortal Online is swedish as far as I know, and swedish people sucks ;D *giggles*

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

 

Id like you to elaborate on your understanding that the game will suck when they have people they aren't paying beta testing the game.

i won't have to if you can answer this question for yourself...

do YOU think that game testing is just simply "playing the game"?

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

 

This is the truth, generally speaking, closed beta testers are only required to test the "massive" components of the MMO, a lot of the smaller stuff is done by game testers on site.

I think its a toss in the air what would be more effective.   If a company takes the time to implement a decent form of bug documenting and has a team working on sorting that documentation a " massive " beta from the start would work well.  I don't believe star vault did such a thing, since the last I heard their bug reporting software does not work well.  

My guess would be that they only pull bug reports from a small portion of beta testers ( a group they have chosen ), and those beta testers probably pull other members into the group if they find someone with .02 worth of competence.  I also think they have a bit different situation with a 4 month " beta " on their agenda that could very easily be extended if enough preorders are sold.    

Do I consider their actions ethical hell no, but it may well prove ok for players if they put off a release with the money they raise.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

 

This is the truth, generally speaking, closed beta testers are only required to test the "massive" components of the MMO, a lot of the smaller stuff is done by game testers on site.

 

I think its a toss in the air what would be more effective.   If a company takes the time to implement a decent form of bug documenting and has a team working on sorting that documentation a " massive " beta from the start would work well.  I don't believe star vault did such a thing, since the last I heard their bug reporting software does not work well.  

My guess would be that they only pull bug reports from a small portion of beta testers ( a group they have chosen ), and those beta testers probably pull other members into the group if they find someone with .02 worth of competence.  I also think they have a bit different situation with a 4 month " beta " on their agenda that could very easily be extended if enough preorders are sold.    

Do I consider their actions ethical hell no, but it may well prove ok for players if they put off a release with the money they raise.

well..... ACTUALLY...... both type of testers are needed... each group contributes something the other group cannot... the masses beta tester are really just there to see what kind of stupid things they'll do... as anyone with experience will know... a lot of people do not intend to play a game the way that it is designed to be played by the developers...

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

 

This is the truth, generally speaking, closed beta testers are only required to test the "massive" components of the MMO, a lot of the smaller stuff is done by game testers on site.

 

I think its a toss in the air what would be more effective.   If a company takes the time to implement a decent form of bug documenting and has a team working on sorting that documentation a " massive " beta from the start would work well.  I don't believe star vault did such a thing, since the last I heard their bug reporting software does not work well.  

My guess would be that they only pull bug reports from a small portion of beta testers ( a group they have chosen ), and those beta testers probably pull other members into the group if they find someone with .02 worth of competence.  I also think they have a bit different situation with a 4 month " beta " on their agenda that could very easily be extended if enough preorders are sold.    

Do I consider their actions ethical hell no, but it may well prove ok for players if they put off a release with the money they raise.

Well it's not "their" beta software, it's Mantis, which i have seen used in other betas.  Plus now they have a bug report in their Beta forums so it's much better now.  Beta is extended, it's going to have to be if they wanna release the game in a halfway decent state.  They are doing a good job though,  new patch looks good and for a small company they are doing a great job imo.  They just need to implement 2 or 3 more somewhat major elements and i think it could be ready to go.  Can't really say much about what or anything cause i'll break the NDA but i think it's def. gonna launch and it won't be money wasted for those who preordered.

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

you know... they are suppose to PAY YOU to play their beta...

 

beta testing is a full time job and there are professional beta game testers (people that *thinks* in a unique way when playing a game) who gets paid to work very hard at finding issues and bugs and possible exploits in a game...

 

when a company decides to use people who are willing to work for free to beta test a game (AKA people that have waaayyy tooo much time on their hands and bored out their a**)... YOU JUST KNOW THE GAME WILL SUK...

 

Id like you to elaborate on your understanding that the game will suck when they have people they aren't paying beta testing the game.

 

i won't have to if you can answer this question for yourself...

 

do YOU think that game testing is just simply "playing the game"?

lol, have you not noticed all the people getting refunds because the beta is not designed around playing the game atm. If they really didn't have devoted testers they wouldn't be putting out patches almost every week to every 2 weeks.

wow you completely missed the point...   forget it just carry on...

I left this boat when I was part of their community sense April 10th, 2008 (opening day of the forums) and they did not even give me a wink of an idea they cared for their community who has been there a while.

Now I am glad I did...

Well Shi....

I have no idea what to do for a game at this point.  I was hoping some headway would be made into Mortal, because their *proposed* feature list is nothing short of a pure, player driven sandbox.  It's sounding more and more like they are going to tank before the game gets finished, or they will rush it to release and it will tank soon after.

I was kind of hoping I would get into Fallen Earth, but I found that since there is nothing to make the world (The Desert Southwest, Earth) interesting enough to drive exploration, I quickly became bored and already stopped playing it.

Now what?  Another year of "Maybe Next Year"!

It seems like I am always waiting for next year because so many of these games are complete garbage.  Honestly, you would have to be a serious moron to invest your money in an MMO company these days.  Either that or so rich you don't mind losing a few million dollars.

Nothing but good things here.

The community is pretty good and i've appreciated the responses the Devs give us.

There seems to be such a mix of responses here... that's a good thing.

If you are on the fence, or wondering what the truth is... just wait. Go play something else for a bit and come back to MO later.

Most negative responses are based on the individuals personal feelings and beliefs about how a beta and company should work. The view and experience they got goes against what they believe to be right, so they react negatively. A few are also individuals who planned to get their money back after trying beta for a week or so... i'm quite happy those individuals are having a difficult time acquiring a refund.

Regardless... patches keep coming out, the torrent is still very active and alive, and the SV forums always seem to have a healthy number of users...

So... something good must exist... even if it exists behind the beta gate.

Edit:

Beta may still be restricted to talk about, but the download and changelog/patchnotes are publicly available, as is the Twitter Feed. Go take a look.

http://www.mortalonline.com/downloadbeta

http://twitter.com/mortalbeta

Originally posted by Fr0z1nDuDe

wow you completely missed the point...   forget it just carry on...

No I didn't, you didn't answer my question and answered me with a question which should not of been asked, do I believe beta is about playing the game, yes and no. To test a game you need to play it but you also have to play it in a different way, like jumping up and down in one spot for like an hour or trying to climb an unclimbable mountain, so on and so forth.

Again you claimed the game would suck since they have their followers testing the game, and to this day I have not seen a post claiming that the followers are the only testers. They may also have professional testers testing their game. I wanted you to elaborate on this because any game nowadays has non-paid people playing beta.

Originally posted by SignusM

Everything I've heard from beta pretty much backs up exactly what the OP is saying.

 

No one in beta is happy. The game is a LONG LONG way off from being functional, and they are seeking money any way they can, even charging for beta (one of the most underhanded things I've ever heard of from an MMO company). We could have seen this coming though, from a company that was selling hats and tshirts when all that was on the website was one pre rendered trailer they were pretending was in game footage. 

 

 

They've pushed the game back like 3 times already whats a few more?

Charging for a beta is what World of Warcraft did when they offered open beta keys through File Planet, of which you had to purchase a membership through (the two partnered, both reaping the rewards of that) in order to obtain the download. 

WoW sat in various development, alpha and beta stages for six years or more and you bet the Collector's Edition was on Pre-order months in advance.

And as far as hats and T-shirts, both WoW and Warhammer sold those months in advance of the games ever being released. None of this is new.

-Ashyn

Edited to add: I'm not defending MO by any means, this is,  by far, the worst game I have ever had the displeasure of logging into (beta stage or otherwise).

Originally posted by Abloec

Originally posted by SignusM

Everything I've heard from beta pretty much backs up exactly what the OP is saying.

 

No one in beta is happy. The game is a LONG LONG way off from being functional, and they are seeking money any way they can, even charging for beta (one of the most underhanded things I've ever heard of from an MMO company). We could have seen this coming though, from a company that was selling hats and tshirts when all that was on the website was one pre rendered trailer they were pretending was in game footage. 

 

 

They've pushed the game back like 3 times already whats a few more?

 

Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.

 

Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.

 

They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.

 

lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.

 

 

Well thereis a little lol from me right now ,because you have to understand what you are saying..think REAL hard.

Yep it's a test alright but of what?you have to have a near done game to test,unless you telling me they are testing nothing but blind code?Server testing is usually the last thing devs test,so this HAS to be the game they are testing.

I mean it is pretty obvious that to test game bugs,quest bugs there has to be a game and there has to be quests.To test game mechanics ,those mechanics have to be in place,to test animations and spawns they all have to be working and in place,you don't create a BETA test for no reason to test nothing.

Now of course i realize the purpose of a beta test,the problem is MOST gamers are not there to test,they are there for free game play.If a developer wants my respect they had better start treating it like a proper beta as well,if they expect players to.

There SHOULD be in EVERY beta a questionnaire,forms to fill out,a sort of survey to fill out.If players do not fill it out,they do not get to beta test.There should be no more than a 2 hour maximum game play,then they have to fill out another form of questions and answers.

So right now we have both players and devs treating BETA tests improperly.Devs are using beta's to bribe players into pre buys,money up front and commitments of a guild/clan so they can lock in several players.Players think they are playing a free game,the whole idea of BETA's lately have been a joke.Then we get sites like this one and many others offering beta keys like it is some form of candy of grand prize,it is nothing but a simple beta,nothing to get excited about here.

I don't see what the problem is with charging for a game. Your getting to test beta as a benefit, so you should be lucky to get anything with more content then tetris when playing beta. Remember, your pre-ordering a released game, not paying for beta.

Originally posted by Respen

Star Vault is not asking for a pre-order, they are asking you to fund the development of their game.

The whole premise of a pre-order is to reserve a copy of an item expected to sell out of stock. It's purpose is to give you peace of mind, knowing you'll have a copy waiting for you on opening day. It's been manipulated and molested by the gaming community as of late, and Star Vault is taking advantage of this in order to better scam you, the consumer.

Mortal Online is no where near ready for release. What is done is in such sad shape that I can not believe they are trying to pass off for a beta. To say this game will not be ready to ship on Star Vaults estimated Quarter 4 '09 is an understatement. It's the single most amateurish piece of garbage I've seen, and can not believe they are even allowing the public to view it's beta.

To add insult to injury, if you ask for a justified refund, Star Vault will not reply to you. Not even a denial e-mail. If you dispute the charge via your credit card company or bank, Star Vault will fight the dispute as fully as possible. Eventually, either you or your credit card company will end up eating the charge because they will not offer refunds. Does this sound like good business practice to anyone? What it sounds like to me is a scheme, set to cut losses of an obviously failing product.

If you are interested in this game, I urge you to think long and hard before you commit to "pre-ordering". There is absolutely no reason to pre-order at this point, and it can only bite you in the long run for doing so. I apologize, and do know that this issue has been discussed, but I just got off the phone with a very nice bank representative informing me of just how tenacious Star Vault is being. They are going out of their way to keep every penny sent to them.

As consumers, I believe that we really should fight these business practices with our wallets and I, for one, will be avoiding MO and SV even if Mortal is released in a half playable state 10 years from now.

 

/rant
 

I remember reading this post, by god do i wish i had listened. I have never before had any regret concerning purchase of a game, but this time, I really did a stupid thing and went ahead and bought alltho I was still on the fence. 

3 days in, crashes all the time ( server crashes ), countless bugs ( i know i know, not everyone has them, if non at all, or so they say, but I and alot of other players do.

And its not just smalltime stuff, its kinda gamebreaking bugs most of em, notice how i say kinda, while i really mean very gamebreaking in some cases.

Looting doesnt work, if you close the first loot window with ESC, say goodbye to looting until next time you login, yes you have to relog.

Pets not responding, weird texture glitches, skills not working, books not working, you dont get loot if you kill something with magic, I could go on, but I think you get the drift.

I should have waited. I really hope they pull it together, but im loosing faith here.

I know its an old thread, but the OP had it right , at least from my perspective.

Oh yeah and on top of that, i cant remove my CC info from my account. There is 2 option, which you can choose to mark.

Renew and DO NOT renew.

You can just switch between those and then  change your sub. No security code needed. or reentry of CC info, it just starts the sub. 

Am i the only one not comfortable with that ?

I am not comfortable with that either. I expect SV to go bankrupt anyways.

Originally posted by Jargle

I am not comfortable with that either. I expect SV to go bankrupt anyways.

 Go bankrupt? Are you sure they aren't already and that is why the released the beta with only a change to the launcher screen and called it "launched"?