Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by ray12k

wow to fallen earth? and everywhere inbetween... I don't see how you can state " Most western MMO'S are very similar gameplay wise" then you have not heard of vanguard, Americas Army, BF series, MOH series, Quake ect.

The only thing the eastern markets aRe leading in is graphics in the mmorpg market. In other MMO games western devs. are on top.

Im not trying to say that at some point the case might be diff. but currently I have not seen one aspect that the eastern markets have created besides item shops.

I agree WOW sucks but on the OTHER hand the only game, from eaStern devs.,that I think had any innovation would be Lineage 2. It seems both western and eastern devs. are creating fast cash games. aka crap middle school kids buy and quit in 1-3 months.

 

 

First of all, America's Army, BF series, MOH series, Quake etc. are not MMOs. WoW is an MMO, Vanguard is an MMO, EQ and EQ2 are MMOs. I hope you get this because you completely missed the point of my previous post.

I'm saying that Asian MMO developers are leading the market in innovation, because they are actually trying something new.

Just for argument's sake, let me explain what I meant by "Most western MMOs are very similar game play wise."

Vanguard: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

WoW: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

LOTRO: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

WAR: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

AoC: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

EQ2: You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP.

That's what I mean by "similar game play." Barring a few slight differences, most western MMOs play exactly the same.

The only MMOs which provide a slightly different game play experience are EVE Online, Darkfall and Fallen Earth and two of those games are crap. Care to guess which ones? I was going to add Planetside to the list but I think that it's pretty much dead and forgotten by SOE.

As much as I hate most Asian MMOs, their developers were the first to bring us a sidescroller MMO, a racing MMO a golf MMO, a soccer MMO and an MMO which allows you to control a group of characters instead of just one.

Granted, most of Asian MMOs suck but that's not the point of my argument. The point is that the Asian MMO developers are trying to come up with something new while the next batch of western MMOs will bring us the same ol' "You level your character to max level by completing quests and fighting mobs. You usually fight mobs by pressing (or clicking) you hot bar keys which are usually keys 1-0 on your keyboard. Sometimes you craft, run instances and/or PvP."

yeah aa, quake and bf ae mmo's with up to 64 players per map...

and no western mmo's play very diffrent from each other from uo to fallen earth....

eastern games play very much alike, so your dead wrong.... if anything the eastern mmo's try to use a western mmorpgs elements, that being wow.

your last little stance proves you have no idea what you are talking about... again all asian mmos are point click auto hit. In some western games you can lvl by crafting,fishing ect. not to mention uo's combat...

In the end westen MMO's are king, for how long, I dont know. Name one game besides Lineage 2 that was worth playing....

Originally posted by ricefarmer

Originally posted by Dibdabs

Ah, you have reading difficulties.  Ok then, I shall clarify...  When I say"shit combat graphics/sound effects" I mean that the sound effects and the graphics for combat are shit.  It didn't seem that hard to me, but there you go.  :)

The rest of the things that I don't like and the reason why I dislike them will become apparent if you slowly spell your way through the post again.  You may move your lips if it helps. 

if u think aion combat is crap, then u hate every western mmo cuz its even worst... do urself a favor and look up next gen korean mmos and how it could possibly be crap.. and if u think games like continent 9, blade and soul, tera online, are crap then theres no point in talking to u because they are console level action combat.. 

maybe u just dont like games? go play fps or something

2 years ago look up DFO dev. lol if it has not released it has a good chance of being crap at open beta...

Western MMOs are not king. I will give Word Of Warcraft credit but only Asian games reach subcriber numers in the millions. Western MMOs are lucky to even get 300K subs. Before you say that its a Asian thing I will tell you its not. If World Of Warcraft can get over a million subs in the West then why cant other Western MMOs?

Originally posted by Mannish

Western MMOs are not king. I will give Word Of Warcraft credit but only Asian games reach subcriber numers in the millions. Western MMOs are lucky to even get 300K subs. Before you say that its a Asian thing I will tell you its not. If World Of Warcraft can get over a million subs in the West then why cant other Western MMOs?

Because WOW is more fun to play than other western MMOs.  What other answer is there?  Mass delusion=)  Asian MMOs don't do any better outside of asia than western MMOs do.  They have millions of subscribers but they're all in the same place.   The east.  You can throw F2P MMOs out the window when it comes to subs.  They count everyone who ever tried the game.  WAR and AOC would probably have millions of subs as well if they counted everyone who bought the box or tried the demo since release..

One thing which really bother me is western company stops making mmorpg.  For obvious reason, they arn't making money.

I look at all the mmorpg from the west, except Blizzard, they just arn't making money.

But all the companys from asia are making money.  Even those which make crapy games.

I think budget is of a concern.  Even with small budget, asia company manage to make half decent crappy games.  Western comapny just can't make half decent games without throwing in tones of money.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Mannish

Western MMOs are not king. I will give Word Of Warcraft credit but only Asian games reach subcriber numers in the millions. Western MMOs are lucky to even get 300K subs. Before you say that its a Asian thing I will tell you its not. If World Of Warcraft can get over a million subs in the West then why cant other Western MMOs?

Because WOW is more fun to play than other western MMOs.  What other answer is there?  Mass delusion=)  Asian MMOs don't do any better outside of asia than western MMOs do.  They have millions of subscribers but they're all in the same place.   The east.  You can throw F2P MMOs out the window when it comes to subs.  They count everyone who ever tried the game.  WAR and AOC would probably have millions of subs as well if they counted everyone who bought the box or tried the demo since release..

It does not matter where subs come from as long as a game gets them. I will ask again. Whats stopping western games from getting huge subs? I dont care if its East, West, North or South. If Eastern games can get huge subs in the East then why cant West games get huge subs in the West? Why cant West games get huge subs anywhere?

LOL, Koreans aren't leading anything atm.

Aion is failing and no one plays Lineag anymore in the West.

How is that leading? Even Japan doesn't want to play Korean MMO because they're a grind, they prefer games like Monster Hunter Online.

Koreans aren't leading anything regarding MMO.

OP is being a bad troll.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Mannish

Western MMOs are not king. I will give Word Of Warcraft credit but only Asian games reach subcriber numers in the millions. Western MMOs are lucky to even get 300K subs. Before you say that its a Asian thing I will tell you its not. If World Of Warcraft can get over a million subs in the West then why cant other Western MMOs?

Because WOW is more fun to play than other western MMOs.  What other answer is there?  Mass delusion=)  Asian MMOs don't do any better outside of asia than western MMOs do.  They have millions of subscribers but they're all in the same place.   The east.  You can throw F2P MMOs out the window when it comes to subs.  They count everyone who ever tried the game.  WAR and AOC would probably have millions of subs as well if they counted everyone who bought the box or tried the demo since release..

While obviously the subscribtion numbers are neglectable as every account is included, the amount of servers that are avaible can not. games like Maple Story and Silkroad are very, very popular games with tons of servers, many of which are often full.

With that said, there have actually been some korean mmorpgs that managed to hold a steady subscriber base. Lineage 2 had a subscriber base of around 100k in the west for years. Ragnarok Online also did very well in NA and EU for years. Aion, probably the most popular asian mmorpg around right now, is struggling with que times due to huge demand.

Also Bastii:

That actually isn't true. Korean games are very popular in Japan, and Ragnarok Online often went head to head for the top position with Final Fantasy XI.

Aion failing? not really. The game has 400k pre - orders and people are reporting up to 2 hours of que time before they can enter the servers. So far, Aion is doing great.

Originally posted by bastii

LOL, Koreans aren't leading anything atm.

Aion is failing and no one plays Lineag anymore in the West.

How is that leading? Even Japan doesn't want to play Korean MMO because they're a grind, they prefer games like Monster Hunter Online.

Koreans aren't leading anything regarding MMO.

 

OP is being a bad troll.

Technically lineage 1 is the 6th most popular mmorpg right now in the taiwan, hong kong, and macow region.  The funny thing is lineage 2 is the 12th most popular mmorpg in the region.

And Aion is the most popular mmorpg right now in Japan, for obvious reason.  Wow isn't release in Japan.

Originally posted by ray12k

 

yeah aa, quake and bf ae mmo's with up to 64 players per map...

and no western mmo's play very diffrent from each other from uo to fallen earth....

eastern games play very much alike, so your dead wrong.... if anything the eastern mmo's try to use a western mmorpgs elements, that being wow.

your last little stance proves you have no idea what you are talking about... again all asian mmos are point click auto hit. In some western games you can lvl by crafting,fishing ect. not to mention uo's combat...

In the end westen MMO's are king, for how long, I dont know. Name one game besides Lineage 2 that was worth playing....

You must be confused. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. There is nothing massive about 64 people. Look those games up, not one of them claims to be an MMO. They are games with a multiplayer component but that does not make them MMOs.

As for every thing else you have posted, I would suggest you do some research before claiming that someone does not know what he or she is talking about. Otherwise, keep it up, your post is full of lols. Oh and reading comprehension, look it up.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by ray12k

 

yeah aa, quake and bf ae mmo's with up to 64 players per map...

and no western mmo's play very diffrent from each other from uo to fallen earth....

eastern games play very much alike, so your dead wrong.... if anything the eastern mmo's try to use a western mmorpgs elements, that being wow.

your last little stance proves you have no idea what you are talking about... again all asian mmos are point click auto hit. In some western games you can lvl by crafting,fishing ect. not to mention uo's combat...

In the end westen MMO's are king, for how long, I dont know. Name one game besides Lineage 2 that was worth playing....

You must be confused. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. There is nothing massive about 64 people. Look those games up, not one of them claims to be an MMO. They are games with a multiplayer component but that does not make them MMOs.

As for every thing else you have posted, I would suggest you do some research before claiming that someone does not know what he or she is talking about. Otherwise, keep it up, your post is full of lols. Oh and reading comprehension, look it up.

HIT THe OOGLE slut... aa2 is the same as any mmo..

you newbs in the genre are so funny,,, ac 1 and uo are the best that was ever made... wow sucks but is still beter then any eastern mmorpg besides lineage 2.

western mmo's are gods to the east , k thanks buy =P

It all boils down to 1 simple fact.

Different people have different tastes or to use an old adage "one man's meat is another man's poison!"

Personally speaking I detest the overly pretty ladyboys and schoolgirs in pristine clinically clean rainbow painted hospital room-like zones of eastern games, if I want that kind of experience I'll watch " My Little Pony " while taking LSD.

I think western games have yet to offer up a game with truly gritty visuals within a solid game (AoC gets a mention, just a pity the game was so shoddy on release).

I am a player that wants the choice, if I want to play a beautiful ethereal Elf one day & a huge ugly pustule infested Troll drooling and sweating the next day I would play & pay for a game that offered me that kind of choice.

As for the sad pre-pubescent little boys drooling over these eastern styled "females" all I can say is your appreciation of the female form is squarely stuck in the GQ/Maxim/FHM rut of airbrushed barbie-dolls, it's purely adolescent and if you never get past that false idealism that's great. Personally I like women of all types & want my games to represent that diversitry, along with a diversity of males, I don't want to play as some idealised ladyboy metrosexual, I wanna play that big bearded norse berserker scarred face missing eyeball and lank greasy hair to boot.

As far as gameplay goes the Koreans are really WAY behind the curve, with the sheer ridiculous volume of games they are outputting their innovations should be way ahead of the west, but they aren't, they are recycling the same old garbage week after week & their innovation & advancement is glacially slow in that respect, their art, their gameplay is painfully slow in progress whilst western games at a metric f**ton less releases is advancing at a slightly faster pace.

MMO in general are stil stuck in the chase the WoW gravy-train mode & in the west at least it's got as much to do with the money men as the developers, I'll bet my ass that games copying WoW are finding it a whole hell of a lot easier to find funding thanks to the investors & the real niche/innovative devs are having a hell of a lot harder time when they don't follow the WoW mode style simply because of market forces and investors being very nervous.

Originally posted by Ponico

Originally posted by RadioMaryja

more or less Tisiphone, thanks. And Ricefarmer - its not a wow way of thinking. Apart from technical issues there is also human problem. Lets face it - not only kids play mmorpgs. Also plenty of mature people. And as we all know reflexes/senses degrade with age. In the game which favours fast button mashing over everything there could be only 2 type of winners - console geeks or cheaters. After all cheating is more blatant in action games. Macros anyone? There is no chance I'll be playing any mmorpg tekken style - it would force me to play hours to keep practicing moves and combos, instead of doing anything else in the game.

 

According to your global stats on Unreal Tournament, you seem like a very decent player. Why would you need to practice hours after hours to be on pare with most? Even HUxley doesn't compared to UT or any other high end twitch skilled games.

You would probably crush the competition with ease.

 

haha, you would be very suprised. fact is my xfire stats are not even 25% of the time i played, yet i never managed to be more than div 2 player in all competitions. i know best players from my country in this game and if they would use xfire they probably would have around 6-7k of hours played. Huxley is shit game, without dodge (very basic strafe in UT), and with bad client/server implementation - tested it, its crap.

Why do you think top cs teams play all days and nights? How many hours you have to spend to be top Guitar Hero player, or top console fighter? Time needed to master movement/combos so you could compete with others would take most of available gametime many of people have. I believe that forcing players to learn god knows how many combos/movements would result in another niche game.

 and thanks for kind words about UT, i wish it was true :) I managed to win some trophies innit, but im far away from saying that i was anything more but average player.

EDIT: finished my post, meanwhile Skuz wrote a good one about eastern/western games, thats a good one mate.

Koreans do love MMOs and that is why they spend so much time and money on them.

They are however not the only one that can make good MMOs and Blizzard is far from the only western company that can do a good MMO.

Take Arenanet, Guildwars sold millions and GW2 will release in a year or so. US.

CCP is not as big as Blizzard or NC soft but they are doing well with Eve online, and are also working on several other games. Iceland/US.

Funcoms secret worlds is also an upcoming title with a lot of interest for us that love Lovecraft (not related to Warcraft ;). Morway.

Bioware is getting into the MMOs too, nad so far have they never botched a single game. Canada.

And don't totaly count out SOe yet either, DCU have a lot of potential too.

There are many interesting games coming up noth from north america and europe right now so I wouldn't say that Korean devs are in the lead. There are many good developers there, lets not say anything else but to say that they lead the industry is not right.

My guess for the next big MMO is still Arenanets "Guildwars 2", I doubt Aion can compete with it in the west.

The Korean companies do an outstanding job of both creating and marketing games.  Many of the failed Western styled MMOs rely too heavily on word of mouth for advertising.  When's the last time you saw an ad for Vanguard or EQ2?

Ken

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by ray12k

 

yeah aa, quake and bf ae mmo's with up to 64 players per map...

and no western mmo's play very diffrent from each other from uo to fallen earth....

eastern games play very much alike, so your dead wrong.... if anything the eastern mmo's try to use a western mmorpgs elements, that being wow.

your last little stance proves you have no idea what you are talking about... again all asian mmos are point click auto hit. In some western games you can lvl by crafting,fishing ect. not to mention uo's combat...

In the end westen MMO's are king, for how long, I dont know. Name one game besides Lineage 2 that was worth playing....

You must be confused. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. There is nothing massive about 64 people. Look those games up, not one of them claims to be an MMO. They are games with a multiplayer component but that does not make them MMOs.

As for every thing else you have posted, I would suggest you do some research before claiming that someone does not know what he or she is talking about. Otherwise, keep it up, your post is full of lols. Oh and reading comprehension, look it up.

 

HIT THe OOGLE slut... aa2 is the same as any mmo..

you newbs in the genre are so funny,,, ac 1 and uo are the best that was ever made... wow sucks but is still beter then any eastern mmorpg besides lineage 2.

western mmo's are gods to the east , k thanks buy =P

My dude, I've been playing MMOs since UO and no, America's Army is not an MMO. It is a mutiplayer game.

Here see if you can understand this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMO

And you still continue to completely miss the whole point of my post. So much so, in fact that, at this point, I think that you're simply trolling. Thanks for a few lols though.

Originally posted by ray12k

HIT THe OOGLE slut

Point her out and I'll give it a go.

That's almost sigworthy.

The gaming mentality demonstrated in here is atrocious. But i guess its human nature.

Korea may not yet lead the MMO market in terms of innovation, but neither does America. And if the mentality shown here is of any indication of the gaming community in the West's biggest market. It probably never will. America is torn between a Brilliant minded, multi-racial, 'productive' high class which leads the country, and a simple impulse driven 'Consuming' community. The contrast between the two is quiet significant.

This contrast wouldn't matter if MMOs didn't need this community to succeed. But they do, American MMO developers are stuck in producing 'proven to work' un-innovative game formulas because they cannot afford to risk investing in new ideas. Bringing Blizzard and WoW as an example of innovation is a flawed argument, careful examination of Wotlk expansion and subsequent updates show us that aside from 'Phasing' which isn't new. Nothing innovative was added by blizzard in the past 2 years.

On the other hand, the Korean community seems to be much more open minded towards new ideas. And has a much more mature view to gaming, Starcraft being made by a different human 'race' did not stop that game from succeeding. Clearly because Koreans admired the formula regardless of its creator's origin.

If the current announced MMO projects are of any indication to the future, then i can say while Koreans aren't yet a ahead in the MMOs gaming formula. Next year may pretty much change that. The fact that SWtoR is the most anticipated Western MMO release for next year, pretty much lead us to take this for granted.

I  do not believe Korea is leading the MMO Market but Asia as a whole is leading the market.  The West is not even close to having a market as large as the East and it never will.

Originally posted by Mannish

I  do not believe Korea is leading the MMO Market but Asia as a whole is leading the market.  The West is not even close to having a market as large as the East and it never will.

Duh.

The population of Asia is almost triple that of NA/EU combined.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

As many Asian countries become wealthier, both the amount of free time people have to for entertainment and the money they have to spend it on, will only go up. The market is probably bigger now and will only increase. It also doesn't hurt that playing video games/MMOs is a form of entertainment that does not take up much physical infrastructure or physical space to do, which is something more limited in places like Japan/Taiwan/S.Korea.

As the global market of ideas and products only increases, the "where" of a product becomes much less important than "What" and "How Good". Yes, it is always easier for locals to target local markets, but that is becoming increasingly less so.

More people in Asia play games produced in Asia, because the companies there are more familiar with cultural preferences, folklore, consumer trends, and all the rest. Same with the West, why Eastern games do better in the East and Western games in the West.

Just don't expect that to last forever.