Starting from the ground up, what at it's core makes a game a sandbox game?

Does it start with "go anywhere"? 

Is the next step "no instances"? 

What about interaction with the game world, is that needed? In what ways?Opening doors, sitting in chairs, building chairs?

What about terraforming? Does a sandbox need the ability to dig holes in the ground and clear trees?

• a good pail, preferably red
• a good shovel.  (blue would be nice)
• perhaps a little rake
• a good supply of sand
• a tractor
• some cat poop

What I think sandbox is:

1. Skill based character development, not limited to crafting and combat.

2. Ability to modify the world in some way, be it housing, towns or forts.

3. A variety of things to do, not limited to crafting and combat.

4. Player driven story,plot, and/or adventures. As opposed to quest driven.

5. Strong crafting integration. Can build most things in game. Can build custom

6. Large open world where you can go anywhere without limitation.

---

What passes for sandbox:

Skill-based games.

FFA-PvP gankfest.

 Flow environment. 

If you do something, it will affect the game. Whether it be gameplay, environment, or economy. 

Anything you do can be countered by another player, not nessesarily intentional.

 I think the core element of a sandbox game has something do with character progression that can go in a divergent array of directions.  The most obvious examples being crafting and combat.  A character can be a master crafter, totally lacking any combat skill, and still be considered an advanced character - as opposed to a game where all characters are on pretty much the same linear playing field.

Flexible character development (skill system, skill/attribute allocation system or flexible class system with point allocation under the hood.)

Large open World (World being the main focus of the game, How you affect it)

Crafting as the main way to get superior items.

No fucking Endgame!!!!!  Lateral progression ftw, World simulator.

Originally posted by madeux

• a good pail, preferably red
• a good shovel.  (blue would be nice)
• perhaps a little rake
• a good supply of sand
• a tractor
• some cat poop

^ Winnar!!

But seriously I think Freedom underlines all aspects.  Freedom to kill, to steal, to farm, to be a lumberjack, a vigilante, a ruler of a kingdom, a hobo on the muddy streets begging for copper coins so that you may get into the inn and buy that flagon of ale.  Any action should have some effect on the surrounding game world.  If I cut down a tree, there will be a stump left over and if done repeatedly in a general area you'd see a clearing with multiple stumps.

Not sure really how to get the point across but actions should have reactions.  If you go on a killing spree and manage to loot yourself a horde of items/money/prized material you should have to keep in mind that at any time a group of vigilantes could come along, kill you good and take the stuff back, or another person of your persuasion could come along and kill you mercilessly like you did the caravan you just robbed.  Or you might make the mistake of picking on a caravan or group of adventurers where you misjudge their strength and get killed.

Basically a game with limitations only within the context of it.  You can't make a FA-18 Super Hornet in a medieval game or have catapults launch Air to Ground missiles with exploding nuclear warheads.  Other then that sort of thing, you should be able to climb trees, track people via actual tracks... I'll stop rambling now.

Originally posted by neoterrar

What I think sandbox is:

1. Skill based character development, not limited to crafting and combat.

2. Ability to modify the world in some way, be it housing, towns or forts.

3. A variety of things to do, not limited to crafting and combat.

4. Player driven story,plot, and/or adventures. As opposed to quest driven.

5. Strong crafting integration. Can build most things in game. Can build custom

6. Large open world where you can go anywhere without limitation.

 

Agreed, though I would add player-driven economy.  Even though it might be implied in number 5, I feel it's important to spell it out and mention that adding things like BOE/BOP invalidate a title's sandbox credentials. 

Also, fluff is important, whether it be things like the storyteller system in SWG, the music system in LotRo, or the ability to write your own books like in UO, a true sandbox has many of these small but necessary immersion builders.

www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3365/page/1

Read this link for the heart of what a sandbox game is.

Seems like you need (a) a world (meaning a big world), (b) the ability to significantly impact that world, and (c) a large variety of choices (much of which will be crafting.)

Part of the large number of choices might come through the game having softer limits on what zones you can explore, but I'm not sure that's necessary for a game to still be a good sandbox.

Originally posted by Vanpry

www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3365/page/1

Read this link for the heart of what a sandbox game is.

Alright article.

But dead wrong on Skills vs. Levels.

The root is "How much does advancement matter?"  In skill-based games, skills often don't matter much.  Maybe 100 is the max, but you can kill any mob in the game with 50 sword skill.

Nothing stops a level-based game from being designed the exact same way (with 100 being max level, but you can kill anything at level 50.)

For that matter, you could have a skills-based game where a mob with 100 Armor skill can't be killed unless you have at least 98 Sword Skill.

Skills and Levels are merely different ways of organizing how the player's power is gained and distributed.  They affect very little beyond that.

 One important aspect is the very fundamental gameplay design.  There is no all-encompassing goal.  It's not about the level of your character - levels, skills, etc. are just measure of how powerful you are.  The game is about your character in some world.

In practical terms, a game that has a variety of content. I understand why some say skill is better than level because level implies classes but lots of combat classes with lots of additional classes like crafting is fine by me. I consider there's enough role variety in vangard for it to be more sandbox than darfall for example, since you have to major in pvp in darkfall.

A game that relies on the variety of the player's imagination, instead of its own pre-scripted content, to perpetuate the "fun factor." It doesn't need to react to the player, no. It just needs to give the player enough space to do what they want. When you paint on a canvas, does it react? No.

A sandbox is a canvas with paint.  A box of Legos. Blank sheet music, a pen, and a piano. It is less constrictive than a sports field, yet more engaging than chess - and possibly limitless.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Starting from the ground up, what at it's core makes a game a sandbox game?

Does it start with "go anywhere"? 

Is the next step "no instances"? 

What about interaction with the game world, is that needed? In what ways?Opening doors, sitting in chairs, building chairs?

What about terraforming? Does a sandbox need the ability to dig holes in the ground and clear trees?

- no PvE raiding endgame, otherwise players rush to the end

- NPC controlled factions who are on the same lvl as bots in FPS

- don't agree with "go anywhere": many areas should be super dangerous to go to until you progressed enough to handle it

 how can you get more engaging then chess?  some chess masters can think 10 moves ahead with their strategies while playing, some even more.  chess can be painfully engaging if you want it to be, its not like checkers =p

had you said more engaging then checkers we would have fully agreed.

1) Capacity for players to create content (ex: soverignty in eve)

2) Multiple ways of advancement.  Usually but not always skills based (i wouild argue VG's diplomacy/crafting/adventuring/gathering is a bit, though not 100%, sandboxey)

3) the capacity to do non- traditional things, and have that be your thing (IE blacksmiths in UO basically being devoted to smithing)

4) some level of risk in one's ventures (i didn't say ffa pvp, but SOME loss shd be endured if one loses/dies)

5) Fighting and equipment/fitting to please minmaxers and customizers.

6) Crafting and economy vital to the game with good, stable systems governing both.

7) things to do in both a small group and a large group, as well as alone.

or, i guess you could just say::

1) immersion

Sandbox = recess

Linear= P.E. class

Virtual World can have both, one, niether, or many of each.

Sandbox is the game where you can achieve game objective in multiply ways.

Enough said.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Sandbox is the game where you can achieve game objective in multiply ways.

Enough said.

Mmm, not enough. In FFXIV you can achieve the game objective in multiple ways, but it's still a themepark.