I do not know about the rest of you but I for one am sick and tired of the same type of MMO being produced every single time. With exception to a very select few they are all the same. A vast majority of MMO's out right now are similar in every way, some people call them "WoW Clones" but in reality this level of stupidity dates back to before WoW probably all rthe ay to EverCrack, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call. If you take a look at most of the MMO's out right now youll see that most of the quests are the same "go out and kill x number of a specific mob" or go out and collect y number of items a certain mob drops" or "go out and collect z number of resources so you can make a crappy item when finish the quest". And if aint those its a rush to get to the end game content only to find that your stuck doing the same raid dungeons so you can get the best gear or kill so many players so you can get the best pvp gear. To me there is only a very minor sellection of MMO's out that dont follow this pattern and these choices are getting smaller and smaller every day. The only major MMO out that follows this path is EVE Online, and a new MMO that is comming out called Alganon, both games depending totally on the players to drive the storyline. Whereas other games the Dev's controll the storyline(which in some cases like WoW there is no storyline). Ill pick on WoW for a little bit. I said WoW doesnt have a storyline, which is partially true, but at the same time it is also totally true. If you compare WoW to other fantasy games like EQ2, Lineage 2, and Lord of the Rings Online there is very little if any story line to follow. In the first CGI film for WoW it says that WoW takes place 4 years after WarCraft 3 and says the "tenuous pact between the Horde and the Alliance had all but evaporated" but doesnt explain why. I have played the Alliance side and there is no quest that explains why any race of the Alliance hates the horde. The only main quests that explain any hatred towards a faction is the main one against the Defias Brotherhood. Other than that the only Quest/Acheivemnt that deals with the Horde is "For the Alliance" and the only reason people do that one is because it gives a free mount. Hell Everquest 2 had complete storylines why Freeport hated Qeynos and vise versa. Even NCsoft had a complete storyline for Lineage 2 out even before Beta Testing came out. So why is WoW all but devoid on any storyline as to why The Alliance hates the Horde, or why The Horde Hates the Alliance? at the end of the main storyline for Warcraft 3 and Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne the Horde and Alliance were buddy, buddy. If you go to Moonglade, Lights Hope Chapel in EPL, Dalaran in Northrend, Shattrath City and The Stair of Destiny in Outlands you see Horde and Alliance members actually assisting each other. So someone please Explain to me why the factions hate each other. And also someone please tell me what the main storyline is for WoW because I cant find it.

(I know some n00b is going to post tldr but seriously I dont care I am tired of seeing pointless game after pointless game come out with the same questlines in each and every one of them)

This is a first for me:

*Wall of text hits you for 50k damage*

* You die*

Originally posted by akiira69

I do not know about the rest of you but I for one am sick and tired of the same type of MMO being produced every single time. With exception to a very select few they are all the same. A vast majority of MMO's out right now are similar in every way, some people call them "WoW Clones" but in reality this level of stupidity dates back to before WoW probably all rthe ay to EverCrack, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call. If you take a look at most of the MMO's out right now youll see that most of the quests are the same "go out and kill x number of a specific mob" or go out and collect y number of items a certain mob drops" or "go out and collect z number of resources so you can make a crappy item when finish the quest". And if aint those its a rush to get to the end game content only to find that your stuck doing the same raid dungeons so you can get the best gear or kill so many players so you can get the best pvp gear. To me there is only a very minor sellection of MMO's out that dont follow this pattern and these choices are getting smaller and smaller every day. The only major MMO out that follows this path is EVE Online, and a new MMO that is comming out called Alganon, both games depending totally on the players to drive the storyline. Whereas other games the Dev's controll the storyline(which in some cases like WoW there is no storyline). Ill pick on WoW for a little bit. I said WoW doesnt have a storyline, which is partially true, but at the same time it is also totally true. If you compare WoW to other fantasy games like EQ2, Lineage 2, and Lord of the Rings Online there is very little if any story line to follow. In the first CGI film for WoW it says that WoW takes place 4 years after WarCraft 3 and says the "tenuous pact between the Horde and the Alliance had all but evaporated" but doesnt explain why. I have played the Alliance side and there is no quest that explains why any race of the Alliance hates the horde. The only main quests that explain any hatred towards a faction is the main one against the Defias Brotherhood. Other than that the only Quest/Acheivemnt that deals with the Horde is "For the Alliance" and the only reason people do that one is because it gives a free mount. Hell Everquest 2 had complete storylines why Freeport hated Qeynos and vise versa. Even NCsoft had a complete storyline for Lineage 2 out even before Beta Testing came out. So why is WoW all but devoid on any storyline as to why The Alliance hates the Horde, or why The Horde Hates the Alliance? at the end of the main storyline for Warcraft 3 and Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne the Horde and Alliance were buddy, buddy. If you go to Moonglade, Lights Hope Chapel in EPL, Dalaran in Northrend, Shattrath City and The Stair of Destiny in Outlands you see Horde and Alliance members actually assisting each other. So someone please Explain to me why the factions hate each other. And also someone please tell me what the main storyline is for WoW because I cant find it.

(I know some n00b is going to post tldr but seriously I dont care I am tired of seeing pointless game after pointless game come out with the same questlines in each and every one of them)

Have you ever considered changing your playstyle, to me it's the playstyle people have that makes them feel as if every game is a clone, you speak about the FedX quest type's, they are there in every MMORPG ever made, but they often also just side quest, separeted from the main story line.

Every MMORPG ever made has story, but it's up to the player to discover that route.

Obvious if people just click the quest/accept and hardly read them then most MMORPG's will be boring towards those type of players.

I like story, but most of all with this genre I do not have to be bound to follow it, I can create my own story, perhaps it's due to my being a experiance gamer (30+years with Pong being my first) I already follow story in singleplayer games, just let me have my freedom in MMORPG's.

Saying there is no story most of the time only shows a persons playstyle, similar to those who speak about grind/ casual, hardcore, as those things are bound at playstyle and not because of the game cause we gamers know for a fact that each and every game can be played hardcore or casual because most GAMERS know hardcore has nothing to do with TIME, but has every thing to do with how devoted someone is towards "something" and devotion can be done in 10 minutes or 24/7.

I am harcore when it comes to MMORPG or gaming in general, that just means when a game provides me with fun I'll devote myself towards the game, kinda the reason why I never ever seen a WOW clone as each game is totaly different, except if I choose to start playing these games with a very limited playstyle. Also this rush to end game is something I hope is done by people unexperianced with this genre, as I never seen any reason why people really rush thru games in this genre, as like you say they are bound to get stuck, and experianced players of this genre should already know that it's kinda foolish to rush to end lvl cause they are bound to miss out on many things a game can offer. Including many changes that might occure when a game might just be released.

Now obvious this is just my own opinion that I do share with friends I personaly know aswell a few online "friends" I know.But I am the minority that plays games in this genre this way I already know that. Most just follow the carrot or have this "I want it all and want it now" mentality.

Well, most people probably don't even read the story line.  I don't see it as a big deal.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by akiira69

I do not know about the rest of you but I for one am sick and tired of the same type of MMO being produced every single time. With exception to a very select few they are all the same. A vast majority of MMO's out right now are similar in every way, some people call them "WoW Clones" but in reality this level of stupidity dates back to before WoW probably all rthe ay to EverCrack, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call. If you take a look at most of the MMO's out right now youll see that most of the quests are the same "go out and kill x number of a specific mob" or go out and collect y number of items a certain mob drops" or "go out and collect z number of resources so you can make a crappy item when finish the quest". And if aint those its a rush to get to the end game content only to find that your stuck doing the same raid dungeons so you can get the best gear or kill so many players so you can get the best pvp gear. To me there is only a very minor sellection of MMO's out that dont follow this pattern and these choices are getting smaller and smaller every day. The only major MMO out that follows this path is EVE Online, and a new MMO that is comming out called Alganon, both games depending totally on the players to drive the storyline. Whereas other games the Dev's controll the storyline(which in some cases like WoW there is no storyline). Ill pick on WoW for a little bit. I said WoW doesnt have a storyline, which is partially true, but at the same time it is also totally true. If you compare WoW to other fantasy games like EQ2, Lineage 2, and Lord of the Rings Online there is very little if any story line to follow. In the first CGI film for WoW it says that WoW takes place 4 years after WarCraft 3 and says the "tenuous pact between the Horde and the Alliance had all but evaporated" but doesnt explain why. I have played the Alliance side and there is no quest that explains why any race of the Alliance hates the horde. The only main quests that explain any hatred towards a faction is the main one against the Defias Brotherhood. Other than that the only Quest/Acheivemnt that deals with the Horde is "For the Alliance" and the only reason people do that one is because it gives a free mount. Hell Everquest 2 had complete storylines why Freeport hated Qeynos and vise versa. Even NCsoft had a complete storyline for Lineage 2 out even before Beta Testing came out. So why is WoW all but devoid on any storyline as to why The Alliance hates the Horde, or why The Horde Hates the Alliance? at the end of the main storyline for Warcraft 3 and Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne the Horde and Alliance were buddy, buddy. If you go to Moonglade, Lights Hope Chapel in EPL, Dalaran in Northrend, Shattrath City and The Stair of Destiny in Outlands you see Horde and Alliance members actually assisting each other. So someone please Explain to me why the factions hate each other. And also someone please tell me what the main storyline is for WoW because I cant find it.

(I know some n00b is going to post tldr but seriously I dont care I am tired of seeing pointless game after pointless game come out with the same questlines in each and every one of them)

 

Have you ever considered changing your playstyle, to me it's the playstyle people have that makes them feel as if every game is a clone, you speak about the FedX quest type's, they are there in every MMORPG ever made, but they often also just side quest, separeted from the main story line.

Every MMORPG ever made has story, but it's up to the player to discover that route.

Obvious if people just click the quest/accept and hardly read them then most MMORPG's will be boring towards those type of players.

I like story, but most of all with this genre I do not have to be bound to follow it, I can create my own story, perhaps it's due to my being a experiance gamer (30+years with Pong being my first) I already follow story in singleplayer games, just let me have my freedom in MMORPG's.

Saying there is no story most of the time only shows a persons playstyle, similar to those who speak about grind/ casual, hardcore, as those things are bound at playstyle and not because of the game cause we gamers know for a fact that each and every game can be played hardcore or casual because most GAMERS know hardcore has nothing to do with TIME, but has every thing to do with how devoted someone is towards "something" and devotion can be done in 10 minutes or 24/7.

I am harcore when it comes to MMORPG or gaming in general, that just means when a game provides me with fun I'll devote myself towards the game, kinda the reason why I never ever seen a WOW clone as each game is totaly different, except if I choose to start playing these games with a very limited playstyle. Also this rush to end game is something I hope is done by people unexperianced with this genre, as I never seen any reason why people really rush thru games in this genre, as like you say they are bound to get stuck, and experianced players of this genre should already know that it's kinda foolish to rush to end lvl cause they are bound to miss out on many things a game can offer. Including many changes that might occure when a game might just be released.

Now obvious this is just my own opinion that I do share with friends I personaly know aswell a few online "friends" I know.But I am the minority that plays games in this genre this way I already know that. Most just follow the carrot or have this "I want it all and want it now" mentality.

Like you I am not the type to get a quest and just click accept. I am a Lore geek, in the fact that I love the lore that surrounds a game that is why i mainly stick to the RPG and MMORPG genre's. For me to find out why I need to do the things I do is more important than some weapon or peice of equipment that will only be replaced by something bigger and better later in the game. I am also a social gamer, in that I love to see what other players are doing, and see how the interaction with them will give me a bigger understanding of the game. But I am sick and tired of the Dev's dumbing down the importance of a decent storyline just because the vocal minority of the MMO Gaming Community would rather have better end game content than trying to piece together what could be a storlyine that rivals any book series you could pick up at the local library or book store. If I wanted to play a pointless game Id play a First Person SHooter Like Call of Duty or Unreal Tournement Online.

I get a headache in reading those walls of text.

Do you guys have a return key?

Like this.

Can we just agree on, that they suck?

If "all but a select few" are dull, unoriginal clones, just play one or more of the select few then. Your dollars will speak much louder than any number of posts on an uaffiliated forum.

Half of the post something about horde and alliance hating each other LOL. 

"I have played the Alliance side and there is no quest that explains why any race of the Alliance hates the horde."

Warcraft's lore could probably fill an encyclopedia set. Say what you will about World of Warcraft, but there is a LOT of backstory to it that was developed during Warcraft 1-3's timeline.

Originally posted by Omali

"I have played the Alliance side and there is no quest that explains why any race of the Alliance hates the horde."

Warcraft's lore could probably fill an encyclopedia set. Say what you will about World of Warcraft, but there is a LOT of backstory to it that was developed during Warcraft 1-3's timeline.

I'm not really sure I'd say there was a "lot" to Warcraft 1-3.  The vaaast majority of Warcraft lore has been created for WOW.

As for the reason: Alliance hates Horde because Orcs invaded Human lands in multiple large wars.  The rest of the races then tend to be at war largely by being associated with Orcs or Humans.

That's the Super Simple Version at least.  And I'd agree that it's covered pretty vaguely in WOW.

Originally posted by vickies

I get a headache in reading those walls of text.

Do you guys have a return key?

Like this.

 

Simple sulotion: Don't read them,

Anyway you could try and actualy get into the discussion.

Originally posted by akiira69

 

Like you I am not the type to get a quest and just click accept. I am a Lore geek, in the fact that I love the lore that surrounds a game that is why i mainly stick to the RPG and MMORPG genre's. For me to find out why I need to do the things I do is more important than some weapon or peice of equipment that will only be replaced by something bigger and better later in the game. I am also a social gamer, in that I love to see what other players are doing, and see how the interaction with them will give me a bigger understanding of the game. But I am sick and tired of the Dev's dumbing down the importance of a decent storyline just because the vocal minority of the MMO Gaming Community would rather have better end game content than trying to piece together what could be a storlyine that rivals any book series you could pick up at the local library or book store. If I wanted to play a pointless game Id play a First Person SHooter Like Call of Duty or Unreal Tournement Online.

Well I think I need to add that YES I do read about 70/80% of quest text, 20% sometimes I just don't but mostly I will.

I will also say I am a lore fan but only with singleplayer RPG's, where with a MMORPG it must go beyond that what I already know, I want developers to give me the tools to be able to creat my own story/lore, of course I love MMORPG's that have a clear good main story/lore, but overall I want my freedom in MMORPG's.

Overall I am a gamer and even greatly enjoy games like Cod/UT, to you they might be pointless, to me when multiplaying them they are a adrenaline rush as I truly love PVP in those games, something PVP in MMORPG never could give me as for me combat never excited me in MMORPG as it is everything else that should go beyond a singleplayer RPG what intrests me in a MMORPG. Currently btw really loving Batman Arkham Aylum, regardless that it's very linear it beats the hell out of any other superhero game ever made regardles if it's a singleplayer superhero game or a MMO superhero game FOR ME.

So in short what I dislike about this genre is that it's so dumped down and foccuses to much on only combat oriented MMORPG's where in my opinion MMORPG's can be so much more then just being combat games as like I explained I never gotten my combat fix in MMORPG but always in other genre of games. Oh and I know there are MMORPG that try to be different, but then things like RMT or Graphics/Animations or the overall look sets me off of them.

Why are the story of quests in Text anyway, that is simply dumb.

If I wanted to read text I'd go borrow a book from the library, not sit on my chair looking at 24' monitor while playing a >3D< game that could do so much more than just produce simple text as an excuse for 'story'. Disgusting.

The developers should use the technology over books to their advantage. Why make an e-book when you could create epic cutscenes and dialogue to tell the story instead? 

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Why are the story of quests in Text anyway, that is simply dumb.

If I wanted to read text I'd go borrow a book from the library, not sit on my chair looking at 24' monitor while playing a >3D< game that could do so much more than just produce simple text as an excuse for 'story'. Disgusting.

The developers should use the technology over books to their advantage. Why make an e-book when you could create epic cutscenes and dialogue to tell the story instead? 

oh I do agree and feel SW:Tor might be that change. Still not convinced about the game in a MMORPG sense, but am becoming more intrested in it pure in a gamers sense.

I am waiting on a Milo type of interaction within this genre, though we might see it first in singleplayer games. Check link if unknown with Milo.

Don't forget tech is still taking baby steps.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Why are the story of quests in Text anyway, that is simply dumb.

If I wanted to read text I'd go borrow a book from the library, not sit on my chair looking at 24' monitor while playing a >3D< game that could do so much more than just produce simple text as an excuse for 'story'. Disgusting.

The developers should use the technology over books to their advantage. Why make an e-book when you could create epic cutscenes and dialogue to tell the story instead? 

 

oh I do agree and feel SW:Tor might be that change. Still not convinced about the game in a MMORPG sense, but am becoming more intrested in it pure in a gamers sense.

I am waiting on a Milo type of interaction within this genre, though we might see it first in singleplayer games. Check link if unknown with Milo.

Don't forget tech is still taking baby steps.

I for one don't mind reading. But for God's sake let's have some more sandbox mmos...

Originally posted by Draccan

 

I for one don't mind reading. But for God's sake let's have some more sandbox mmos...

 

99% of you guys don't even see the freedom in theme parc play.

Let alone you'd  know what sandbox means.

Play the games being offered within your sandbox goals first.

Then whine because you can't even figure out the theme parcs.

Whats the point of a story line if it doesnt effect the game. IF you have a war between two factions that can never be won, that isnt a great story. The story should be  one in the same with the game. Fluff is glazed over. If the "war" is fluff, any story about it is as well. It will only make the "game" easier to see its pointless. Story tells us why we're fighting, the game takes the story and ruins it because those reasons dont apply. Story doesnt tell us why we need to level up endlessly and wait.

A lot of good points made in this thread.  Thanks all for taking the time to post your feelings on the matter.

I too have some serious concerns on the current state of MMORPGs, but I wouldn't hold story up as a primary concern.  The first MMORPG I played was Meridian 59, back in 1996 and the story there was virtually non-existant.  That did little or nothing to detract from the balls-to-the-wall gameplay that sucked me in immediately.

The biggest problem I see with MMORPGs of today is the rails.  Its like you're riding around one of those haunted house rides.  There are all of these zombies and monsters popping out at you, but its all so controlled and safe that you're never really afraid.

I would love to find an MMORPG that takes me back to Asheron's Call on Darktide.  Make death mean something.  Make advancing your character mean something more than taking one more step to the grim conclusion that is the "end game."  Open things up.  Throw me into a world, filled with blood-thirsty heathens (aka my fellow gamers).  Fill that world with cool mechanics and compelling combat.  Rip down the walls, and tear out the PVP safezones.

Maybe its just nostalgia on my part.  I know I hated AC by the end, but years later I chock that up to the hackers and botters who ruined the game.  In any case, I do remember this: the no holds barred PVP of AC on Darktide created the most immersive feeling for me.  The society of good vs. evil that arose remains truly unique to this day.  In the years since, I have hungered for an MMO that would make me feel like I did when I played AC.

Try as I might, I can't find it anywhere, and I've been looking for a very long time.

Originally posted by vickies

Originally posted by Draccan

 

I for one don't mind reading. But for God's sake let's have some more sandbox mmos...

 

 

99% of you guys don't even see the freedom in theme parc play.

Let alone you'd  know what sandbox means.

Play the games being offered within your sandbox goals first.

Then whine because you can't even figure out the theme parcs.

 

What freedom are people not seeing in TPP?

To be honest most games being released are boring. They are created for $$$ and nothing more, which is fine lol. Just don’t try and say that people are dense because they can’t find freedom in a game that offers 8 classes, limited weapons and predetermined play styles.

Everyone that has played since the 90's has a idea what a sandbox game should be. A MMORPG should be set in a world that has no endgame. Where people can enjoying the here and now.