Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by dave6660

Funny, I thought scenarios was the worst thing they did.  It takes people out of the main world RvR.  I know, people want fair fights.  To that I say, war is not supposed to be fair.  I like EVE's motto, "If you're in a fair fight, you're doing something wrong".

 

Most people get sick of mismatches.

I am neither a sadist nor a masochist.

War isn't fair - that's one of the horrible things about it. Games need to be fair.

I agree with the main feeling of imbalances ruined the game, and for me it was also as a long standing Warhammer fan, what they had actualy produced in the name of the ip, the game had scacrificed so much to become a MMO it lost its soul, it lacked direction in general, but with the IP in mind it was worse than a lack of direction it was clueless.

Maybe and its only I thought, if they built a solid PVE warhammer with the factions all correctly done, with their cities and their classes, then built a PVP, now normaly thats almost a sure fire way for a weak PVP, but I honestly think it would of gone the other way with Warhammer......Well it couldnt of been much worse lets put it that way.

All this article does is show us how clueless Mythic are about their own problems, since they don't mention the ACTUAL problems with the game.

I mean we're never going to see Blizzard saying "wow failed because":

• solo friendly
• PvE too easy at the beginning
• in game economy.

you're speaking crap Mythic

I mean get REAL Mythic... the reason your game did badly was because:

• *released too early (6 cities.. hmm... )
• *goa
• *not realising what the gamers wanted
• *crap engine
• *crafting useless
• *Too many PQ's and Fortresses too early [how many players do you see sticking around Tier 2&3], with crap rewards (too many cooks spoil the broth)
• *End Game (there isn't one)
• *not working on balance issues, ignoring them
• *too many live events
• *not enough content
• *creating high res shots of new armour, without telling the community that the armour exists in game but you just jiggled it around

and lots more.... you can't even admitt your own failures.. go look at Net Devils article after Auto Assault died... and understand why your MMO failed. You destroyed a loved fantasy setting.

Best thing Bioware can do, is to tell Mythic where to stick their ideas....

I loved DAoC but i can't get on with the clunky graphics now. I know graphics don't make a decent game (UO best mmorpg ever) but if Mythic had brought out DAoCII with updated graphics i'd have gone back like a shot. I agree with all the comments on why WAR has failed (running through an empty city on a PC that can run AoC full spec and still sticking eventually got to me) but i really enjoyed playing my Witchhunter...

Originally posted by Matt_UK

I loved DAoC but i can't get on with the clunky graphics now. I know graphics don't make a decent game (UO best mmorpg ever) but if Mythic had brought out DAoCII with updated graphics i'd have gone back like a shot. I agree with all the comments on why WAR has failed (running through an empty city on a PC that can run AoC full spec and still sticking eventually got to me) but i really enjoyed playing my Witchhunter...

A lot of the classes are cool to play.

There is a lot of good in the game, but it is buried in the bad.

I'll add my 2 cents:

1) The lack of unity among the factions. The green skins had a seperate area, the chaos did too as well as the dark elves. Thier should have been one or maby two areas for factions to progress.

2) End game pvp was a lagfest joke on the players. People trying to siege had huge amounts of lag and instability.

3) Crafting was garbage in this game. Crafting = economy = player interaction.

It was fun for like a month or two. But dam all that work for a poorly designed product, its a shame.

Another major downside of WAR: It's incredibly zerg-based. You can't really stand out and work on a great tactic that works fine.

You can't be the smart bastard that figured out some great, working mechanic to dominate. This makes PvP extremely satisfying for people who are unexperienced or just button mashing; but at the same time makes it completely pointless to figure out where your strengths and weaknesses are.

Honestly, while button mashing through scenarios or in an open RvR zerg you can contribute, kill and die as much as any other player... so why bother to actually be _good_? You are dark elf number 1241, and you do the dark elf thing, like everybody around you. *shrug*

M

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by Khrymson

The worst for me was not only the battlegrounds, but the massive amounts of XP you got from doing them also. {Never should have gotten XP from PvP...or at least that much.}  I was never a huge PvP person but I enjoyed it in DAoC and it was amusing in WAR.  It shouldn't have had Battlegrounds at all and was instead entirely focused on open-world PvP, and just make many more quests be interacted with the PvP areas instead so players could not only do PvP but also knock out quests for their XP as well!

 

Uhm, I think it's pretty obvious that you are not a fan of PvP or the type of game that Mythic concept gears toward.

XP from Scenarios (NOT battleground) was very welcomed by the players.  Yet another concept WoW had to steal.

Warhammer Scenarios was one of the best things in that game.

Funny, I thought scenarios was the worst thing they did.  It takes people out of the main world RvR.  I know, people want fair fights.  To that I say, war is not supposed to be fair.  I like EVE's motto, "If you're in a fair fight, you're doing something wrong".

 

You think scenarios are the worst thing? Imagine if there wasn't ever scenarios. What would happen is the overpopulated side would dominate repeatedly breaking the morale of underpopulated side. Broken morale means no players to PVP against. No matter what you think, without scenarios WAR would have tanked even sooner. It's not a perfect world where everything goes as you see it in your head. No matter how well thought out the ORVR is, when one faction dominates 2:1 it isn't lasting fun for the losing side.

Originally posted by protoroc

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by Khrymson

The worst for me was not only the battlegrounds, but the massive amounts of XP you got from doing them also. {Never should have gotten XP from PvP...or at least that much.}  I was never a huge PvP person but I enjoyed it in DAoC and it was amusing in WAR.  It shouldn't have had Battlegrounds at all and was instead entirely focused on open-world PvP, and just make many more quests be interacted with the PvP areas instead so players could not only do PvP but also knock out quests for their XP as well!

 

Uhm, I think it's pretty obvious that you are not a fan of PvP or the type of game that Mythic concept gears toward.

XP from Scenarios (NOT battleground) was very welcomed by the players.  Yet another concept WoW had to steal.

Warhammer Scenarios was one of the best things in that game.

Funny, I thought scenarios was the worst thing they did.  It takes people out of the main world RvR.  I know, people want fair fights.  To that I say, war is not supposed to be fair.  I like EVE's motto, "If you're in a fair fight, you're doing something wrong".

 

You think scenarios are the worst thing? Imagine if there wasn't ever scenarios. What would happen is the overpopulated side would dominate repeatedly breaking the morale of underpopulated side. Broken morale means no players to PVP against. No matter what you think, without scenarios WAR would have tanked even sooner. It's not a perfect world where everything goes as you see it in your head. No matter how well thought out the ORVR is, when one faction dominates 2:1 it isn't lasting fun for the losing side.

Agree here. The game would have been a lot more versatile and less population dependend if they had introduced a third faction and not a block-war. The Warhammer lore provides plenty of opportunity to do so.

Well, many ifs and whens... the game is what it is, no use complaining now since it won't re-skyrocket miraculously. It will sit in its niche and some people will play it. Like Vanguard, like AoC, like HG, all the stars and stars-in-the-making that were to be _the_ second coming of MMORPGs...

M

I remember the first few weeks of warhammer. It was great fun.

Everyone was making use of the PQ's, the bo/keep attacks and not so many yet of the scenarios, so it seemed at least. Though the only problem was socializing. Noone said a single word, not in pq's or in chat. The game felt dead but still people seemed to have fun.

Then once you hit tier 2 and 3 you started to see the game's flaws. Orvr zones were way to small, keep sieges were boring, uninspiring and repetative. Orvr fights would always be around the same hot spots. Noone cared about  bo's and fights would mainly just take place near warcamps where you had guards one shotting you.

So people started to head for scenarios instead and thats where the real trouble began. They were way more rewarding then orvr and noone seemed to care anymore about the pve part of the game. Hardly any PQ's were being done and the orvr zones were deserted and all everyone did was stand in warcamps queing for scenarios.

My personal experience is that this is what killed the game. Scenarios + boring orvr. The orvr zones simply were way to small not to mention the stupid pve mechanic implemented in all orvr tier zones.

But many continued to lvl through scenarios and once they hit tier 4 they'd go for the fortresses to try raid the capital. Here came another huge dissapointment. Raiding the capital city wasnt anything more then another boring pve grind and felt unrewarding and uninspiring.

So mythig continued their ''loot makes a game'' focus and threw in grind-rewards for taking bo's etc to try make orvr more popular. This resulted in only making orvr even more boring then it already was with people joining bo-trains and try to avoid any fight to speed up the grind. Stupidest descision ever.

Mythic screwed up big time with ORVR which was their main component of the game or at least the component to selling it. They focussed to much on loot making orvr interresting instead of making orvr interresting by making it inspiring. Keeps and fortresses were designed so bad that it made every single keep fight the same fight. Orvr lakes to small with zone-border-lag in the wrong places and guards one shotting everyone plus providing a safe spot for everyone to fight at.

Still they continued to throw in more loot to try save orvr. Their mistake was the pyramid tier formed ORVR which they couldnt fix but only expand upon by adding but not by changing. Sure they could make better designed fortresses but thats about all they could do. There'd be no time to redesigned every single map in the game to make the orvr zones bigger and better and more inspiring. That would have meant redesigning the whole game.

Basically their orvr wasnt a game element. It was nothing more then a storyline to get people to rvr in a pve-reward system. They aimed for pve-reward mechanics and not for ORVR.

That's all  there was to it. Using the phrase "ORVR" was just a nice way to sell the game while basically the game wasnt designed around orvr at all. The game was designed around using a pve reward system, like wow's for instance, in a rvr world and ORVR was the only way to implement this lore wise and connect all components together. This is what made warhammer fail. This is why their whole design failed and made it extremely difficult for them to change the way the mechanics worked. 

Even a 3rd side wouldnt have changed this. Sure it would have made it a bit more fun, a bit more interresting and balanced. However the orvr design was a failed concept coz of them aiming in the wrong direction. They gaze was aimed to much at former mmorpgs which aimed at constantly rewarding players, think of wow. They wanted to implement the same system and this is where they failed.

If you look at daoc and why daoc orvr succeeded. It wasnt  the rewards, it was the inspiration that made it succesful. In warhammer with their pve-reward system and ORVR just a way of connecting the pve components they took all this inspiration away and instead made former, daoc's, ORVR nothing more then a solo game where people only cared about loot and nothing else mattered. Big mistake.

This game was hyped way too much by the fans and the developers, I was pretty dissapointed with it, I will be wary of Mythic games from now on, even now it still sounds like they don't quite get it.

WAR's biggest problem was they released with too many servers, for WAR to be fun you need a population without a population people have to focus on the other parts of the game. After that all of it's flaws became obvious because players were not able to experience the best part of WAR. The economy? Seriously, try the freaking game engine. PvE is too easy? Give us some RvR then even if you have to close some of the instanced areas to concentrate it. Non-issues compared to the game's other defects. And just to get this straight I love the Warhammer IP, I was begging them to give me a reason to love this game too.

And I agree they should have been much, much more proactive in the response to the unbalanced pops and low populations. I believe they would have been better off aggressively combining servers the first month and hard capping factions or giving much larger bonuses to under-popped factions. The fallout from it would have been the lesser of two evils in the long run. And I do appreciate the added content but polish some of the old stuff before you push out more content. Players were begging for fixes and instead they got umm, more PvE. I'm almost certain this stuff was being worked on before release and when it came due it came due but to the player base it seems Mythic lacks the focus needed to repair mistakes.

Geeks are not businessmen, we know this, but for the sake of all that is holy action is better than inaction as far as players are concerned. Sure you can dismiss this as retrospective thinking, but even at the time people were bringing up these issues...maybe if they launched with official forums. Oh wait, they have the Herald, information should flow one way only. Unless it's in the form of a survey with three choices. But I guess it was better than listening to players whine.

Besides the fact that class balance got worst and worst over time, I think the biggest failure was the design of the WAR campaign.  Particularly the Victory Point system.  This system would have worked well if the actually campaign took days or even weeks.  However, a faction could do the campaign in a matter of 6 hours to a capital city.  This turned little the little issues of the victory point system into major flaws.  Now you had people avoiding scenerios in fear of losing points.  You had an army of people sitting aorund in a zone waiting for it to cap so they can get their rewards.  You had an enemy scared to fight and camping inside their fort in hopes of stalling the campaign. 

If the campaign was actually epic and took days to complete, people would not be playing all these waiting games.  Everything would move along constantly. 

The Land of the Dead also killed the game.  The zone itself was masterfly done.  It was the access to the zone that killed it.  They linked the damn zone to their shitty VP system.  So now you had 1 sided PvP zones with a mass of people waiting to get victory points so they can capture a zone.  But with no enemies around the zones just sat their in a stalemate. 

Why cound't this game go by 100% domination sytem is beyong me.  DAOC did it that way and it worked well for Darknessfalls.

Those were WAR's three biggest flaws? really? Apparently denile is just a river in egypt...

The three biggest flaws in war come from its core gaming experience. The devs failed to realize, recognize and repeat what they did right for DAoC. Little subtle things. It almost makes you think that some of the best elements of DAoC were not really planned as such, but rather just happened accidentally and were never recognized for the core elements that they were. 3 faction RvR being the biggest of these.

I feel the main bottom line problem is they made a PvP game with PvP that wasn't that fun over the long hual.

The PvE might not as well been put in the game with how poor quality it was.

The PvP gameplay just felt off at times.

They needed to start with FAR less servers.

That said I had a blast until I got into T4 then it just started getting to repetitive and matches were just always to one sided (one way or the other).

RvR was a shear numbers thing zerg zerg zerg.

BGs were rarely ever balanced past T2.  One team almost always kicked the shit out of the other to the point of spawn camping.

But again T1 and T2 on a busy sever were really really fun early on.  I really liked the fact I could level solely on PvP and have access to BGs where ever I may be.  I liked some of the concepts behind the RvR but something was missing and other things wrong.

After that the newness wore off and all the bugs issues ruined the fun.  Also, for a PvP oriented game I never felt like there was any risk to it at all.

I really was never a fan of Warhammer when I first heard about it. I bought it after not enjoying AOC as much as I thought. But I ended up buying it and played it quite a bit for the first free month.

I played quite heavily with a guild I found in game at first and was having a blast. I played a Warrior Priest and loved healing, I had great fun with the PVP. I would agree with everyone else about Tier 1 and Tier 2 being great fun, but after that it definitely declined. My personal pet peeves about the game were...

1. PVE content was mediore, beyond the (Public Quests? I forget the names now, I apologize if thats incorrect) the regular quests seem quite lackluster. I understand this was a PVP focused game, but originally they boasted of the PVE content. I found I spent nearly all my time scrambling for quests that seemed incredibly similar in nature. While this can be said for nearly all MMOs, it simply seemed more tedious in WAR. For this reason I spent most of my time PVPing.

2. Earlier levels, Tier 1 and Tier 2 seemed as if there was a lot more work put into it than Tier 3+. It seemed like much more of a grind from Tier 3 onward, did not seem as if there was nearly as much content. Generally in most games I don't mind a "grind", essentially a grind is the MMO experience after all, it just did not seem enjoyable.

3. Class Balance / Faction Balance: There were clear disconnects when I was playing with the difference of classes. Some seem very over-powered, people complained like crazy on the forums. I personally took pride in trying to out strategize a player of a "over-powered" class, but it was noticeable. This would have been more noticeable I believe at end game.

4. Graphics: Completely personal preference, some loved the way it looked. I found it to be incredibly bland, drab, dreary, I felt as if most of the world looked like it was encassed in fog. The textures throughout the game just seemed unnatractive to the eye. This is a lesser issue I had with the game, but it did affect my stay. Not to mention the performance for this game seemed poor, my system was plenty to run this game, and it just seemed to not run fluidly at High graphics.

Anyhow, this is all completely my opinion, none of it fact.

Its a shame because when I first started this game I figured it would keep my attention for awhile.