Originally posted by Zorndorf

For the fans: Lotro = 170K > AoC 65K + War 75K. The rough calculations of today's Xfire (with 5.5 M WOW, 300K EVE, Lotro 180K as a 3 point line reference).

So I don't see Lotro going FTP. It is simply the second most played Fantasy MMORPG with a sub.

GW is second (semi ftp) overall with 470 K players. Always count players never playing time.

D&DO is a good effort. Certainly a nice addition to FTP crap.

But I agree that in 2 years time the single subcription based game is a thing of the past.

All will be bundled or FTP.

Last man standing will be WOW, but even there I see a bundle through Battle.Net play awards within 2 years time.

 

 

 

 

mm battlenet is blizzard trump card, like the ring of power in lotr 

one ring to rule them all(grin)

The kind of FTP I don't like is anything that has to do with item shops, or xp boosts of any kind, selling pets, that sort of thing.

Selling access to zones or dungeons doesn't seem much different from selling an expansion pack, it doesnt' change the structure of the game.

If you take P2P games, and break them up by content and sell off the content piece by piece instead of a monthly fee, that's fine. But P2P games aren't designed to be F2P with item shops and xp boosts, so it seems to me you'd wreck the game if it wasn't designed as F2P in the first place.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

So what do you think of the ftp AD&D feature: you get a next key  level when you can find it in a quest and dungeon set up.

OR you can buy the key in the shop (lame).

I think the option is challeging in itself. Do I quest for it (perhaps very long I don't know yet), or do I cheat. (let's re roll the dice in that dungeon remember the old times :)))).

There can be so many twists around ftp games.

 

 

Tricky one as this was added to get some income from F2P, P2P players don't need to do it. So it isn't like a buy your way around a natural part of the game, it is a F2P only hurdle. A better example would be the effort in unlocking a Favored Soul compared to buying it. Now this is a clear way both F2P and P2P can pay to avoid a lot of effort in game.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by Torak

 

Steefel (or however you spell his name) the guy in charge of Turbine said about a year ago that he is very interested in making LotR F2P.

I doubt you will see WAR go free to play, AoC might go to a similar model as Anarchy (might) but they would need a few expansions under them first.

It's more likely some more of the lesser titles go F2P before any of these.

 

i see, why did we end up with Codemasters for both DDO and LOTRO in the EU.

turbine is so much better >.>

DDO is Free 2 play in NA but P2P still in EU

LOTRO is $10 a months in NA and in EU its still £9/12 Euro...

 

Download the US clients.

I live in Germany and I can play both US versions with no problems. In fact I just did the new DDO client, made a character, logged in but didn't actually play...but it worked fine.

 I'll see if I can dig up that interview later.

www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-lord-of-the-rings-online-mines-of-moria-interview

Sept 1, 2008

Steefel talks about looking at alternate business models for LotR

Eurogamer: Do you think there's room for other business models in LOTRO's future?

Jeffrey Steefel: I think so... There are some things about the way that we built the game that would allow us to try some different business models. For people that want to have a more casual relationship with the game, and just have fun a couple of hours, a couple of times a week, right now I think we have a difficult value proposition. They're paying a premium price to get a whole bunch more than they actually want. So, maybe there's room to satisfy those people in a slightly different way.

This is a franchise that's going to continue for years and years and years, and there's no way that the singular, monolithic, USD 14.95 a month subscription model is going to last for years and years and years all by itself. I think the answer is, it has to change.

I totally buy Steefel logic. F2P is a great idea for some AAA MMOs.

I plainly just don't have the time to play more than one MAIN MMO at a time so i will definitely NOT sub more than one game. However, I do want to play other MMOs for variety. I am NOT opposed to pay a small amount from time to time so that i can play a MMO as a side game.

This f2p model is perfect. DDO is a good example. I play-tested it before and i like it to some extent but NOT enough to replace my main MMO (WOW) with it.

Now I can play DDO on the side. If i have to drop $10-15 into it, once in a while, that is fine as long as I don't have to subscribe.

I also don't really have a problem about xp boost, good items and things like that. If others can buy and use them, i can too.

Isn't there a bit of a problem going with f2p for lotro? Cause of the lifetime subscription thing? Wont those lifetimers feel shortchanged if they arent getting their monthly points like the other 14.95 sub people?

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by Torak

 

Steefel (or however you spell his name) the guy in charge of Turbine said about a year ago that he is very interested in making LotR F2P.

I doubt you will see WAR go free to play, AoC might go to a similar model as Anarchy (might) but they would need a few expansions under them first.

It's more likely some more of the lesser titles go F2P before any of these.

 

i see, why did we end up with Codemasters for both DDO and LOTRO in the EU.

turbine is so much better >.>

DDO is Free 2 play in NA but P2P still in EU

LOTRO is $10 a months in NA and in EU its still £9/12 Euro...

 

Download the US clients.

I live in Germany and I can play both US versions with no problems. In fact I just did the new DDO client, made a character, logged in but didn't actually play...but it worked fine.

 I'll see if I can dig up that interview later.

 

 

i got DDO a few days ago, game is pretty fun

i may get lotro NA, are there many EU players is NA Lotro?

Originally posted by Ackbar

Isn't there a bit of a problem going with f2p for lotro? Cause of the lifetime subscription thing? Wont those lifetimers feel shortchanged if they arent getting their monthly points like the other 14.95 sub people?

that is a good point, maybe they will have a VIP system like DDO

Originally posted by Torak

www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-lord-of-the-rings-online-mines-of-moria-interview

 

Sept 1, 2008

Steefel talks about looking at alternate business models for LotR

 

Eurogamer: Do you think there's room for other business models in LOTRO's future?

Jeffrey Steefel: I think so... There are some things about the way that we built the game that would allow us to try some different business models. For people that want to have a more casual relationship with the game, and just have fun a couple of hours, a couple of times a week, right now I think we have a difficult value proposition. They're paying a premium price to get a whole bunch more than they actually want. So, maybe there's room to satisfy those people in a slightly different way.

This is a franchise that's going to continue for years and years and years, and there's no way that the singular, monolithic, USD 14.95 a month subscription model is going to last for years and years and years all by itself. I think the answer is, it has to change.

I don't see LOTRO going F2P until it's way past it's prime.

The issue came up on the official forums after that article came out as well as a listing on Turbine's website for a RMT manager type position.  The forums were in a HUGE uproar.  Turbine stated in no uncertain terms that LOTRO was not going RMT that it was for another game.  Some of you claiming it would happen can't possibly play LOTRO or you have a very poor beat on the playerbase.  If RMT was instituted right now, LOTRO would lose at least half it's playerbase if not more.  I feel very comfortable with that statement given the amount of outrage between the haves and have nots after the release of MoM with the radiance gear debacle.

DDO is a different animal and IMO very well suited to the F2P model.  You pay for the modules you want to play, and forget the rest....just like real life PnP.  Trying something like that in a free world MMO like LOTRO that started off P2P would be a logistical nightmare I would think.  It took Turbine roughly a year to revamp DDO, LOTRO would not be as simple I wouldn't think. 

My opinion, $.02, 2 coppers.......

Originally posted by lordtull

With DDO gone free and TCOS going that way one can only think a trend may be starting,in game cash shops are the attraction,people spend more in shops per month than they would a monthly fee add in game advertising and ...well economics takes over...question is.......whos next

Depends on the game and the target audience. Quality =/= F2P.  DDO wasnt worth a sub, which is why it can benefit more with a f2p business model. Other games however, Aion even (which comes from a f2p dominated region) is p2p. P2P is the best method since it is predictable profit. As a publisher you know exactly how much you will make that month by the number of active subs... if you lose active subs you know something is not working and can address it. It also attracts those who actually have money to spend.

F2P games are risks, best done on low budget titles and developed in such a way where people will feel obligated to buy items. This is bad for game design, if you really care about quality games. A MMORPG fan should never want f2p business models in their games if they actually want something good. F2P models directly effect how the game is designed... so the focus is then to design a game around the concept of component spending and purchases, rather than focusing on just making an amazing game in which its quality will keep people subbing.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

WAR - owned by EA ! They just close games. No chance for F2P there. And also , would you like to play PVP game with item shop ?

and LOTRO is one of better performing MMOs. It may go F2P though. Cause Turbine likes it that way

I dont know, I think DDO opened the door for games to go F2P, as long as the company is making a gain, thier is no reason to close shop... EA has BF HERO's F2P. If they (any company) buy allot of titles and offer them all F2P, they might be able to make some money... Hell they can offer crappy service, and not respond to customer support lol... maybe out source the devs and tech support =P

Actually, I like the idea of failing games having another shot at success with a transition to free to play. It is such a waste to close down a game... all that hard work and money all wasted, so changing the payment model would actually give the game another chance to succeed. Plus, it might also bring in new players, who were not willing to pay for the game previously, but, who might like the game enough to actually buy items so as to support the game.

However, I dislike the idea of cash shops selling items that would have a huge impact on gameplay. A few experience packs, costumes, hairstyles, nothing that would directly influence gameplay is something I don't mind. However, when the shop includes armour that have stats that are far better than armour that can be worn ingame, or hp and mp pots that increase your health and mp to epic proportions (the heirograms in Perfect World is a perfect example of this) or overpowered pets... yes, I'll probably stop playing that game, and I don't think I would be the only one doing so.

My favourite model would be the b2p model though... I wonder why most companies refuse to use it.

New people do not equal new income in the F2P model. The population has gone up but unless they get substantial new revenue the money spent enabling this hybrid system will have been wasted.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by Ackbar

Isn't there a bit of a problem going with f2p for lotro? Cause of the lifetime subscription thing? Wont those lifetimers feel shortchanged if they arent getting their monthly points like the other 14.95 sub people?

 

that is a good point, maybe they will have a VIP system like DDO

Quite a few on brandywine.

Originally posted by Scot

New people do not equal new income in the F2P model. The population has gone up but unless they get substantial new revenue the money spent enabling this hybrid system will have been wasted.

That is very true, which is why I said that if they are able to get in new players who are more than willing to spend in the cash shop to support the game, then it would certainly give them another chance of success. Certainly a lot better than completely closing down the game.

Though I certainly agree with your post though, at least in terms of why B2P games are rather risky, which is why not many companies would go for it.

Originally posted by alecbr

 I'm sure WOW will be the next one. They are already preparing the ground for it - it's impossible to get into the instances. Their business model will be like this: no subscription, if you want to get into an instance you will have to try it for an hour to get in but if you pay the entrance ticket you will get immediately into the instance.

Please share with us whatever your drinking, it will be a long long time before WoW goes F2P, now the next Blizzard MMO maybe but not WoW.

how can we make a guess at what will go F2P when we don't even know why P2P games go F2P...

Until a dev sits down and spells out the benefits of going from P2P to F2P (we already know the benefits of P2P and F2P) then we cannot make an accurate guess at who might be next...

Originally posted by Death1942

how can we make a guess at what will go F2P when we don't even know why P2P games go F2P...

 

Until a dev sits down and spells out the benefits of going from P2P to F2P (we already know the benefits of P2P and F2P) then we cannot make an accurate guess at who might be next...

We cannot look in the kitchen of individual companies to see whether games will go f2p or will just be closed down, but we can see those decisions coming in most cases.