Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

 

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

While they are "guesses", they are made with facts and figures we have at our disposal. You don't need to look any further than BadgerSmaker's own GCW chart to see the declines. His most recent chart even adds in the player city stats which allow us to make even better "guesses".

Spin it all you like...you may even believe what you type (although I doubt it)...but closing and downsizing is not "good" in this situation. SoE isn't downsizing due to finding new efficiencies or new technology allowing them to do more with less...they simply have LESS. Less players, less customers, less Developers, less interest, less money, less revenue.

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

There is "evidence" that soe has lost lots of subs of the past few years.  Some of it based in fact, other times its anecdotal and yes theres a lot of wild speculation.  However, I have yet to see anything that comes close to being fact to suggest soe has maintained or gained subs.  Apart from obvious fanboy drivel like "theres more players in swg today than ever before" theres nothing showing growth at soe, only decline.  If you have any facts or insight that would show different, please...enlighten us.

That's what I've been saying...NO ONE here is qualified to post any facts on this matter.  It's ALL speculation.  Unless of course, someone from SOE wants to break their NDA...

You're not saying theres more subs now than there was before the NGE, right? Beacuse that's not true....

Originally posted by Trubaduren

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

 

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

While they are "guesses", they are made with facts and figures we have at our disposal. You don't need to look any further than BadgerSmaker's own GCW chart to see the declines. His most recent chart even adds in the player city stats which allow us to make even better "guesses".

Spin it all you like...you may even believe what you type (although I doubt it)...but closing and downsizing is not "good" in this situation. SoE isn't downsizing due to finding new efficiencies or new technology allowing them to do more with less...they simply have LESS. Less players, less customers, less Developers, less interest, less money, less revenue.

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

There is "evidence" that soe has lost lots of subs of the past few years.  Some of it based in fact, other times its anecdotal and yes theres a lot of wild speculation.  However, I have yet to see anything that comes close to being fact to suggest soe has maintained or gained subs.  Apart from obvious fanboy drivel like "theres more players in swg today than ever before" theres nothing showing growth at soe, only decline.  If you have any facts or insight that would show different, please...enlighten us.

That's what I've been saying...NO ONE here is qualified to post any facts on this matter.  It's ALL speculation.  Unless of course, someone from SOE wants to break their NDA...

 

You're not saying theres more subs now than there was before the NGE, right? Beacuse that's not true....

Pretty sure I haven't posted that at any point. 

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

 

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

While they are "guesses", they are made with facts and figures we have at our disposal. You don't need to look any further than BadgerSmaker's own GCW chart to see the declines. His most recent chart even adds in the player city stats which allow us to make even better "guesses".

Spin it all you like...you may even believe what you type (although I doubt it)...but closing and downsizing is not "good" in this situation. SoE isn't downsizing due to finding new efficiencies or new technology allowing them to do more with less...they simply have LESS. Less players, less customers, less Developers, less interest, less money, less revenue.

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

There is "evidence" that soe has lost lots of subs of the past few years.  Some of it based in fact, other times its anecdotal and yes theres a lot of wild speculation.  However, I have yet to see anything that comes close to being fact to suggest soe has maintained or gained subs.  Apart from obvious fanboy drivel like "theres more players in swg today than ever before" theres nothing showing growth at soe, only decline.  If you have any facts or insight that would show different, please...enlighten us.

That's what I've been saying...NO ONE here is qualified to post any facts on this matter.  It's ALL speculation.  Unless of course, someone from SOE wants to break their NDA...

Any1 can tell real easily what the population of a server is just by logging on.  In the past year and a half, my friends list is almost down to nothing, the guild I was in has went from very busy (30+ in guildchat) to hardly any1 in guildchat.  (maybe 2 or 3 at best).  The people that I used to know did not transfer to Starsider.  They did not leave the guild and go to another.  They do not remain subscribed and just do not log on as I have some of their phone numbers, emails, etc.  NEWS FLASH to Obraik, they QUIT, just the same as I did taking 3 more account with me, and are playing other games or waiting for other games.

Why?  The list is quite long.  Some did not like the CHANGES with C6CD thru GU-Whatever.  Some do not like how "LS = pve (tank)" on a 68 page thread with no dev attention to it.  Some did not like the last year of the "smaller updates".  Some do not like the PVP in SWG being left totaly alone since C5.  Some are tired of the bugs.  Some are tired of the lag.  Some just lost interest altogether.  Some, all of the above.  etc, etc, etc.

It's quite easy to know how SWG is doing in the population dept. 

Originally posted by Esquire1980

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

 

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

While they are "guesses", they are made with facts and figures we have at our disposal. You don't need to look any further than BadgerSmaker's own GCW chart to see the declines. His most recent chart even adds in the player city stats which allow us to make even better "guesses".

Spin it all you like...you may even believe what you type (although I doubt it)...but closing and downsizing is not "good" in this situation. SoE isn't downsizing due to finding new efficiencies or new technology allowing them to do more with less...they simply have LESS. Less players, less customers, less Developers, less interest, less money, less revenue.

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

There is "evidence" that soe has lost lots of subs of the past few years.  Some of it based in fact, other times its anecdotal and yes theres a lot of wild speculation.  However, I have yet to see anything that comes close to being fact to suggest soe has maintained or gained subs.  Apart from obvious fanboy drivel like "theres more players in swg today than ever before" theres nothing showing growth at soe, only decline.  If you have any facts or insight that would show different, please...enlighten us.

That's what I've been saying...NO ONE here is qualified to post any facts on this matter.  It's ALL speculation.  Unless of course, someone from SOE wants to break their NDA...

 

Any1 can tell real easily what the population of a server is just by logging on.  In the past year and a half, my friends list is almost down to nothing, the guild I was in has went from very busy (30+ in guildchat) to hardly any1 in guildchat.  (maybe 2 or 3 at best).  The people that I used to know did not transfer to Starsider.  They did not leave the guild and go to another.  They do not remain subscribed and just do not log on as I have some of their phone numbers, emails, etc.  NEWS FLASH to Obraik, they QUIT, just the same as I did taking 3 more account with me, and are playing other games or waiting for other games.

Why?  The list is quite long.  Some did not like the CHANGES with C6CD thru GU-Whatever.  Some do not like how "LS = pve (tank)" on a 68 page thread with no dev attention to it.  Some did not like the last year of the "smaller updates".  Some do not like the PVP in SWG being left totaly alone since C5.  Some are tired of the bugs.  Some are tired of the lag.  Some just lost interest altogether.  Some, all of the above.  etc, etc, etc.

It's quite easy to know how SWG is doing in the population dept. 

You can't use your friendslist or guild list to determine a servers population.  Just because your friends aren't online doesn't mean that no one else is logging into the server.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

 

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

While they are "guesses", they are made with facts and figures we have at our disposal. You don't need to look any further than BadgerSmaker's own GCW chart to see the declines. His most recent chart even adds in the player city stats which allow us to make even better "guesses".

Spin it all you like...you may even believe what you type (although I doubt it)...but closing and downsizing is not "good" in this situation. SoE isn't downsizing due to finding new efficiencies or new technology allowing them to do more with less...they simply have LESS. Less players, less customers, less Developers, less interest, less money, less revenue.

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

There is "evidence" that soe has lost lots of subs of the past few years.  Some of it based in fact, other times its anecdotal and yes theres a lot of wild speculation.  However, I have yet to see anything that comes close to being fact to suggest soe has maintained or gained subs.  Apart from obvious fanboy drivel like "theres more players in swg today than ever before" theres nothing showing growth at soe, only decline.  If you have any facts or insight that would show different, please...enlighten us.

That's what I've been saying...NO ONE here is qualified to post any facts on this matter.  It's ALL speculation.  Unless of course, someone from SOE wants to break their NDA...

SWG is shutting down half of it's servers.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Esquire1980

 

Any1 can tell real easily what the population of a server is just by logging on.  In the past year and a half, my friends list is almost down to nothing, the guild I was in has went from very busy (30+ in guildchat) to hardly any1 in guildchat.  (maybe 2 or 3 at best).  The people that I used to know did not transfer to Starsider.  They did not leave the guild and go to another.  They do not remain subscribed and just do not log on as I have some of their phone numbers, emails, etc.  NEWS FLASH to Obraik, they QUIT, just the same as I did taking 3 more account with me, and are playing other games or waiting for other games.

Why?  The list is quite long.  Some did not like the CHANGES with C6CD thru GU-Whatever.  Some do not like how "LS = pve (tank)" on a 68 page thread with no dev attention to it.  Some did not like the last year of the "smaller updates".  Some do not like the PVP in SWG being left totaly alone since C5.  Some are tired of the bugs.  Some are tired of the lag.  Some just lost interest altogether.  Some, all of the above.  etc, etc, etc.

It's quite easy to know how SWG is doing in the population dept. 

You can't use your friendslist or guild list to determine a servers population.  Just because your friends aren't online doesn't mean that no one else is logging into the server.

You've got to be kidding, right?  You can't be that daft. 

When you play/played on a server everyday for years, you sure get to know who's on it.  You get to know where the new players start, where they go, (Badger even thinks he can count them and there are 100s of 1000s  lol), how much your vendors should be doing, how well your tier 5 city is doing, ALL of it.  And I can most certainly tell you Bria took a large hit in population.  And then there's all the threads on the Bria forums stating the same thing I felt in game, by alot more people than just me. 

How's it feel in that other river, "de-nial" much?  Hard to believe how some1 could argue the facts with just, "You can't do that".  I used to think you had some points but it would seem you just make things up as you go, and to fit your own position, Obraik. 

OK, I've been "Badger-ed".  Go ahead.  Don't even bother to look at reality.  I was on Kauri up to and a little after it's demise.  I certainly know what a dieing server feels like.  But, you just live in your own little world where the sky is pink and the trees are made of suger candy.  You know, there are threads on the O-Boards now made by players that wouldn't see the upcoming closure of the 12 servers and it took them rather by surprise.  You've most probably got a surprise or 2 in store for you from SOE, also.

meh.

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

Sure some games merge servers, but you do realize that the market is growing right?  More players and more game companies are in the market. 

Just because SOE is closing servers, doesn't mean the market is shrinking.  It just means soe is losing its share of the market to other companies. 

You can play word games all you like, but the reality is that the mmo market has exploded over the last several years.  Both in number of games and number of players.  The converse has happened to SOE.  As the market grew, their customer base has shrunk and server mergers are the result of that situation. 

Stop trying to rationalize soe by comparing it to other failing products in some wierd attempt to make it look normal. 

 

 

You obviously didn't read what I posted.  I'm not suggesting that the MMO market is shrinking.  It was a rhetorical question based on the post I quoted that claimed that because SOE is merging servers that their market is shrinking.  I'm not going to bother explaining it out word for word if you didn't understand it but maybe you should have another read at the meaning behind what I was posting ;)

Personally, I think SOE just has a habbit of over guessing how many servers they need at launch and put too many up.  That doesn't have to mean they're shrinking, it just means that they didn't grow to the levels they thought they would in that game.  Of course, as I said, since netiher you nor I have any kind of numbers this numbers debate is rather pointless.  Neither of us have any kind of insider knowledge to make such claims and both sides have bias' that are going to lead them to their own opinions - not facts.

 Yes rhetorical, got it.  However hiding behind a rhetorical questions doesn't mean a false statement isn't worth discussing.  This is where I could return the "you didn't get it so I'm not going to explain it to you".     

Like the facts you keep claiming don't exist, yet you seem fine making your own guesses.  Even when the facts show you are wrong. 

Let me show you:

• Raph Koster is one of several developers who have openly stated a typical mmo server supports around 10k players and has 20% of its subscriber base online during peek hours.  This was during his time with swg and again after he left.
• SOE stated swg had over 300k subscribers after release.  Somewhere around Dec 03 if I recall.
• 300k players for 25 servers = very dense populations on all the servers. 

So yes there are numbers to support the fact that soe had enough servers to support the demand for the game.  Another FACT is that soe had to add servers post release to handle the demand for the game.  Adding servers means there was not enough servers.  I played on one of those added servers and the population was huge. 

I agree that soe keeps to many servers after they merge them.  Just like they did in most of their games.

You trying to rewrite 6 years of history by saying that there were to many servers for the playerbase of the game is just plain delusional?  You really want to say that the problem took 6 years to solve and it is not a result of loss of players? 

Where are your facts?  You want to point fingers at everyone else, why don't you post up anything to support your theories.  So far all you seem to do is ignore everything and post ideas that have no merit or supporting data. 

How about it?

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik

It's alot of words you've written but it's still simply based on guessiing - filled with a healthy dose of over-exaggerations ;)  

One question:  If all server merges mean shrinkage, does that mean the MMO marketplace for pretty much all MMO companies (excluding WoW and whoever makes EvE) is shrinking?  Afterall, SOE isn't alone when it comes to merging servers and as I've pointed out numerous times now, this is more the norm then the abnorm for the industry.

 

Sure some games merge servers, but you do realize that the market is growing right?  More players and more game companies are in the market. 

Just because SOE is closing servers, doesn't mean the market is shrinking.  It just means soe is losing its share of the market to other companies. 

You can play word games all you like, but the reality is that the mmo market has exploded over the last several years.  Both in number of games and number of players.  The converse has happened to SOE.  As the market grew, their customer base has shrunk and server mergers are the result of that situation. 

Stop trying to rationalize soe by comparing it to other failing products in some wierd attempt to make it look normal. 

 

 

You obviously didn't read what I posted.  I'm not suggesting that the MMO market is shrinking.  It was a rhetorical question based on the post I quoted that claimed that because SOE is merging servers that their market is shrinking.  I'm not going to bother explaining it out word for word if you didn't understand it but maybe you should have another read at the meaning behind what I was posting ;)

Personally, I think SOE just has a habbit of over guessing how many servers they need at launch and put too many up.  That doesn't have to mean they're shrinking, it just means that they didn't grow to the levels they thought they would in that game.  Of course, as I said, since netiher you nor I have any kind of numbers this numbers debate is rather pointless.  Neither of us have any kind of insider knowledge to make such claims and both sides have bias' that are going to lead them to their own opinions - not facts.

 Yes rhetorical, got it.  However hiding behind a rhetorical questions doesn't mean a false statement isn't worth discussing.  This is where I could return the "you didn't get it so I'm not going to explain it to you".     

Like the facts you keep claiming don't exist, yet you seem fine making your own guesses.  Even when the facts show you are wrong. 

Let me show you:

• Raph Koster is one of several developers who have openly stated a typical mmo server supports around 10k players and has 20% of its subscriber base online during peek hours.  This was during his time with swg and again after he left.
• SOE stated swg had over 300k subscribers after release.  Somewhere around Dec 03 if I recall.
• 300k players for 25 servers = very dense populations on all the servers. 

So yes there are numbers to support the fact that soe had enough servers to support the demand for the game.  Another FACT is that soe had to add servers post release to handle the demand for the game.  Adding servers means there was not enough servers.  I played on one of those added servers and the population was huge. 

I agree that soe keeps to many servers after they merge them.  Just like they did in most of their games.

 

You trying to rewrite 6 years of history by saying that there were to many servers for the playerbase of the game is just plain delusional?  You really want to say that the problem took 6 years to solve and it is not a result of loss of players? 

Where are your facts?  You want to point fingers at everyone else, why don't you post up anything to support your theories.  So far all you seem to do is ignore everything and post ideas that have no merit or supporting data. 

 

How about it?

I haven't posted guesses, I've posted my personal opinion.  As I'm sure you're aware, an opinion isn't right nor wrong.  I don't try and claim them as fact and I don't go around preaching numbers.  I also haven't said your opinions are wrong, my posts have simply point out to you and those that treat them as fact they are infact guesses/opinions and not something that can be taken as fact.  Unless you can show some hard, reliable evidence that what you say is 100% true then that is all it will ever be.  I don't see how you're going to do this without SOE actually releasing that information.

The fact that you're asking me to present my "facts" shows that you're not understanding what I'm saying or simply ignoring it.  I'm not excluding myself when I say that no one here is qualified to comment on the state of the company.  All of us here have our own bias' that will interfere with the accuracy of the guesses we make.  Basically, it's a pointless discussion.

I don't think it is pointless and I don't think playing games with words make it such.  

Just because you want to play games with words and definitions doesn't make the relvent facts of the issue go away.  You can "opinionize" factual events and then claim it cannot be proven wrong.   You can't have an opinion that the world is flat for example, when it has been proven not to be the case.  Taking the word opinion onto your claims doesn't mean it cannot be proven false, especially when there is evidence that does just that. 

You have an opinion.  I asked for you to present ANYTHING to support your theories.  Facts, quotes, press releases.  ANYTHING.

Right now people are posting relative facts as well as educated guesses based on the information at hand. 

You offer nothing to refute those claims except word smithing, deflecting attention to other mmos and an opinion with nothing to support it.  You are very slippey Obriak, but not that slippery. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

I don't think it is pointless and I don't think playing games with words make it such.  

Just because you want to play games with words and definitions doesn't make the relvent facts of the issue go away.  You can "opinionize" factual events and then claim it cannot be proven wrong.   You can't have an opinion that the world is flat for example, when it has been proven not to be the case.  Taking the word opinion onto your claims doesn't mean it cannot be proven false, especially when there is evidence that does just that. 

 

You have an opinion.  I asked for you to present ANYTHING to support your theories.  Facts, quotes, press releases.  ANYTHING.

 

Right now people are posting relative facts as well as educated guesses based on the information at hand. 

 

You offer nothing to refute those claims except word smithing, deflecting attention to other mmos and an opinion with nothing to support it.  You are very slippey Obriak, but not that slippery. 

 

The world is flat vs round was a pretty poor example.  It's a well proven fact from 100% known evidence that the world is round.  Compared to this whole SOE thing, which there are no facts and only guesses made mostly by people here.  Once SOE releases the information then you can compare this whole thing to the round vs flat argument ;)  Until then, yes, this remains opinion and not fact.
 

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Daffid011

I don't think it is pointless and I don't think playing games with words make it such.  

Just because you want to play games with words and definitions doesn't make the relvent facts of the issue go away.  You can "opinionize" factual events and then claim it cannot be proven wrong.   You can't have an opinion that the world is flat for example, when it has been proven not to be the case.  Taking the word opinion onto your claims doesn't mean it cannot be proven false, especially when there is evidence that does just that. 

 

You have an opinion.  I asked for you to present ANYTHING to support your theories.  Facts, quotes, press releases.  ANYTHING.

 

Right now people are posting relative facts as well as educated guesses based on the information at hand. 

 

You offer nothing to refute those claims except word smithing, deflecting attention to other mmos and an opinion with nothing to support it.  You are very slippey Obriak, but not that slippery. 

 

The world is flat vs round was a pretty poor example.  It's a well proven fact from 100% known evidence that the world is round.  Compared to this whole SOE thing, which there are no facts and only guesses made mostly by people here.  Once SOE releases the information then you can compare this whole thing to the round vs flat argument ;)  Until then, yes, this remains opinion and not fact.
 

I think even then you would defend $OE.

Originally posted by Obraik 

The world is flat vs round was a pretty poor example.  It's a well proven fact from 100% known evidence that the world is round.  Compared to this whole SOE thing, which there are no facts and only guesses made mostly by people here.  Once SOE releases the information then you can compare this whole thing to the round vs flat argument ;)  Until then, yes, this remains opinion and not fact.
 

You keep claiming the problem isn't population decline and there are no facts, despite the mountain of evidence that shows it is the result of loss of subscribers.  You really do sound like the person saying the world is flat.  You thumb your nose at all of the available evidence and pretend that everything here is just an opinion.  It really is a good example. 

We may not know the exact numbers, but that doesn't mean the truth is not being spoken.  No one needs to show you exact numbers to accurately describe the effects and causes.  I have shown you clear facts from events and the games developers that do show your "to many servers" opinion is in fact wrong.  As expected you ignored that and shifted directions again. 

Lets see what SOE has to say on the matter.

For example:  the game developers themselves have been working for the last year to create tools to help players with "population issues" and "condense populations".  

SOE has also said population levels dropped with the NGE and they hoped to get the game back up to pre-nge levels within six months.  That is a direct reference to population drop. 

When the company that runs the game says things like this, then yes it is a fact that population levels are down.  I'm sorry, but the only way your viewpoint looks even remotely valid is if you flat out ignore the events that have transpired.  Perhaps if you took your blinders off and actually read what has been happening you might see this.

When John Smedley openly talks about sunsetting the game, then yes it is heading in that direction. 

I suppose you are going to say those are just opinions of the people who own the game right? 

If swg isn't on decline then where are the paid expansions?  There certainly was enough players prior to the nge to justify a steady flow of expansions, so where are they?

Where is the dev team going?  SWG once had around 100 developers working on it.  Where did they go?  Why does soe keep removing devs from the team to work on other projects?

Other than you trying to sound like a warhammer fan with your "there were just to many servers, people aren't leaving" denial, what support do you have to oppose what anyone has shown or reinforce what you think is the true issue?

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Obraik 

The world is flat vs round was a pretty poor example.  It's a well proven fact from 100% known evidence that the world is round.  Compared to this whole SOE thing, which there are no facts and only guesses made mostly by people here.  Once SOE releases the information then you can compare this whole thing to the round vs flat argument ;)  Until then, yes, this remains opinion and not fact.
 

 

You keep claiming the problem isn't population decline and there are no facts, despite the mountain of evidence that shows it is the result of loss of subscribers.  You really do sound like the person saying the world is flat.  You thumb your nose at all of the available evidence and pretend that everything here is just an opinion.  It really is a good example. 

We may not know the exact numbers, but that doesn't mean the truth is not being spoken.  No one needs to show you exact numbers to accurately describe the effects and causes.  I have shown you clear facts from events and the games developers that do show your "to many servers" opinion is in fact wrong.  As expected you ignored that and shifted directions again. 

Lets see what SOE has to say on the matter.

For example:  the game developers themselves have been working for the last year to create tools to help players with "population issues" and "condense populations".  

SOE has also said population levels dropped with the NGE and they hoped to get the game back up to pre-nge levels within six months.  That is a direct reference to population drop. 

 

When the company that runs the game says things like this, then yes it is a fact that population levels are down.  I'm sorry, but the only way your viewpoint looks even remotely valid is if you flat out ignore the events that have transpired.  Perhaps if you took your blinders off and actually read what has been happening you might see this.

When John Smedley openly talks about sunsetting the game, then yes it is heading in that direction. 

I suppose you are going to say those are just opinions of the people who own the game right? 

 

If swg isn't on decline then where are the paid expansions?  There certainly was enough players prior to the nge to justify a steady flow of expansions, so where are they?

Where is the dev team going?  SWG once had around 100 developers working on it.  Where did they go?  Why does soe keep removing devs from the team to work on other projects?

 

Other than you trying to sound like a warhammer fan with your "there were just to many servers, people aren't leaving" denial, what support do you have to oppose what anyone has shown or reinforce what you think is the true issue?

 

 

So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG?  As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking.  If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing. 
 

Originally posted by Obraik 

So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG?  As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking.  If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing. 
 

I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE.  Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue.  You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft.  How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread.  How soe releases games with to many servers. 

There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining.  I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like.  Please go right ahead and pick some.  Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion.  At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.

SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos.  We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like.  The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking.   SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace.  Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining.  Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?  

Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok?  I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in. 

Originally posted by Obraik 

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

Uh huh. Again dude, have at it, pretend it's all great! I know the truth. ;)

Reality will hit you sooner or later, but until then, have fun and spend as much as you can to support the Devs. I wish they'd get their **edit** together...hopefully you can fund them long enough that even they eventually get it right.

PS...this is a great time to add additional accounts! Insta CL50 if you can get your "buddy" (*wink wink*) to join.

Originally posted by

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

 

Uh huh. Again dude, have at it, pretend it's all great! I know the truth. ;)

Reality will hit you sooner or later, but until then, have fun and spend as much as you can to support the Devs. I wish they'd get their **edit** together...hopefully you can fund them long enough that even they eventually get it right.

 

PS...this is a great time to add additional accounts! Insta CL50 if you can get your "buddy" (*wink wink*) to join.

 

<Mod Edit>

But in the end, it hits them the hardest.

Farewell, beloved Intrepid.

This move is well overdue. You have just witnessed the beginning of the end of Galaxies.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obraik 

A guess is still a guess no matter how educated you think it might be.  GCW and Player City charts are a glimpse but they can't be quoted as an accurate measure of the population as a whole when they're based on the activities of one playstyle in the game.  The majority of my guild aren't featured on the GCW ranks because they choose not to PvP, for example.

 

Uh huh. Again dude, have at it, pretend it's all great! I know the truth. ;)

Reality will hit you sooner or later, but until then, have fun and spend as much as you can to support the Devs. I wish they'd get their **edit** together...hopefully you can fund them long enough that even they eventually get it right.

 

PS...this is a great time to add additional accounts! Insta CL50 if you can get your "buddy" (*wink wink*) to join.

 

<Mod Edit>

 

But in the end, it hits them the hardest.

I don't think so in the end a new name and a new game to post about....

The so called "leader in the MMO industry" are starting to shut down games, servers, dev staff cutbacks, etc. My bets is Pirates of the Burning Sea is next on the list within a couple years- if not SWG.

As far as I know only 3 servers has a health amount of players; starsider, flurry and bloodfin and almost 40% of the population are on starsider alone according to a recent player city status chart.