Originally posted by DoomsDay01

Actually the user is not at fault for breaking the eula. Gameguard is and Microsoft is the one that needs to pursue stopping gameguard from hacking into its system.

If that's the case, I'd be a happy man! It's the one thing I need to verify.

I for one don't allow games to install rootkits on my machine. Period.

Originally posted by shoziku

 

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Originally posted by Souvlaki

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Originally posted by jimmy123

 

Gg is on Aion to prevent cheats.
If you dont like gg don't play Aion.
If you don't like milk don't drink it, starting to smell the coffee ?
ffs get a life stop harping on about it, its in the game its not going anywhere.

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Jimmy,
First of all, I am not playing Aion for that reason and I honestly have no regrets.
Second of all, I know what Game Guard is all too well. It's efficiency though has been a matter in question, but to be clear, I don't care what it's advertised to do. I care about the means it uses to do it. Which takes me to the following-
Third and most important of all, is the fact that a commercial program is violating the EULA of an Operating System. Under the pretense of "protection", the user is forced to violate an agreement and render his/her system vulnerable to attacks. That is obviously not ethical, unless some don't have any such reservations.
I could be more thorough and descriptive on what this translates to, but I am not in the mood to have this thread turn into a troll fest. I made a legitimate question in the beginning and I am sticking to it.
 
 

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I just found yuor original post to be a tame version of "please just get rid of gameguard... pleeeease" post. Kinda sad to be put under the guise of "protecting" your microsoft EULA. No one actualyl cares about the MS eula, and I know you really dont' either. But I do commend your tame method, at least its not whining like most of the others do about it.

Most people like myself dont even notice gameguard running and don't have issue with it. And most of the issues people really have are more mental than anything.
 

mm lol go tell that to all the player that have gameguard issu not solved still !

and see if thewy care about gameguard ,it makes me laugh if you had problem with gg you be the first to post here

but since you dont oh theres no problem with gameguard

same was said when ton of post were written here about lag rubberbanding some silly peep said oh the one that have problem its probably you or  your system 

funy during the following week ncsoft add a small patch after the 3 gig patch 

miracle game works smooth

its the same frewaking thing with game guard with one exeption 

micorosoft  can sue you and you cant even turn around to sue gg or ncsoft because the first page you clic ok say you autirse them (probably lol)

no ty i wont go in that bandwagon ,microsoft is already complicated enough without adding something like gameguard to the pile

Gameguard causes no issues with my computer so to be frank, I don't care about your problems just the same as you don't care about mine or anyone else's unless it is convenient for you.

shoziku is correct, Gamguard is in the game to stay.  I am also fairly certain that he is also correct about the OP using the EULA as a guise to make his point.  But you better look out, the Microsoft FBI will come and get'cha for breaking their precious legal agreement!

A picture is worth a thousand words:

 I really don't get the big deal about having security programs probe your PC. In regards to GG, then only thing that annoyes me is the fact that it makes logging into Aion more of a pain, especially when something breaks and you get an error with a bunch of question marks. 

But about the code injection.. Why do you care? Do you not trust your game company? Do you have anything to hide? Are you a botter/hacker? 

You might not like the idea that GG goes as far as it goes into your system, but this only occurs while your playing the game. 

But yeah, why are you worried so much? Are you afraid that it's going to act like a trojan and total !@"£" your system and steal your credit card numbers? :P

Originally posted by nightbird305

 I really don't get the big deal about having security programs probe your PC. In regards to GG, then only thing that annoyes me is the fact that it makes logging into Aion more of a pain, especially when something breaks and you get an error with a bunch of question marks. 

But about the code injection.. Why do you care? Do you not trust your game company? Do you have anything to hide? Are you a botter/hacker? 

You might not like the idea that GG goes as far as it goes into your system, but this only occurs while your playing the game. 

But yeah, why are you worried so much? Are you afraid that it's going to act like a trojan and total !@"£" your system and steal your credit card numbers? :P

Besides to what I already described above (about my support contracts for my Windows Based applications) the reason I care so much about core injections is the following:

Game Guard has some stability issues, which people have experienced in Aion. That was the starting point for me also. Especially at a game quit (cannot connect) that the program (GG) could not unhook from the processes it monitored, causing my entire system and its resources to become unstable.

Unstable program + injecting into the OS core... dangerous combination. Any reasonable human being can realize this. Last thing I need is for my system to become useless by a badly written program and find myself without support to restore system licenses. Ok... let us say I don't care about support (for the licenses worth tens of thousands of euros)... just the fact that a system is at risk of being disabled is not acceptable. I work with deadlines and play on my free time.

There is NO simpler way I can put it. And I played other MMOs (WoW, EVE, AoC, WAR, LOTR) and never encountered such a problem... even with the original bugs of the AoC client. This one is -sadly- a first.

I came in here to verify a couple of things and at least I am happy that a few people responded on the actual context.

Soon, game companies will ask us to buy a dedicated computer for each game out there...

Well, I really hope Microsoft locks the Kernel in Windows 7. As far as my experience goes, neither Norton or McAfee are known for their detection capabilities anyway.

Originally posted by nightbird305

 I really don't get the big deal about having security programs probe your PC. In regards to GG, then only thing that annoyes me is the fact that it makes logging into Aion more of a pain, especially when something breaks and you get an error with a bunch of question marks. 

But about the code injection.. Why do you care? Do you not trust your game company? Do you have anything to hide? Are you a botter/hacker? 

You might not like the idea that GG goes as far as it goes into your system, but this only occurs while your playing the game. 

But yeah, why are you worried so much? Are you afraid that it's going to act like a trojan and total !@"£" your system and steal your credit card numbers? :P

mm if you leave your door open 1 quart of an inch ,do you think the crook will care if its only a small window ,if its enough to make im go in your house he will go

its the same deal with gg it  opens a window to my system wich i pay norton and microsoft to protect

gg doesnt help protect my system if at least it did that

i dont care if ncsoft will remove gg or not ,one thing is sure its not needed 

guild wars proved us that

Originally posted by Locklain

Gameguard causes no issues with my computer so to be frank, I don't care about your problems just the same as you don't care about mine or anyone else's unless it is convenient for you.

shoziku is correct, Gamguard is in the game to stay.  I am also fairly certain that he is also correct about the OP using the EULA as a guise to make his point.  But you better look out, the Microsoft FBI will come and get'cha for breaking their precious legal agreement!

Problem is that people don't really pay attention until it's too late. Just because it doesn't affect you (or bother you) doesn't mean it's not there. I've heard (parallelism) people watching a forest fire far away and say "we don't care, it's not near us". They weren't saying that twelve hours later.

I wonder, besides risking the security and stability of my system, having to suffer a possible OS failure, infringe my annual maintanance contract and lose time and money to restore everything... what other point am I trying to make?! To get NCSoft to dump Game Guard? I couldn't care less!

I was only trying to find out if I was covered to use the game in the first place. Since it appears I'm not, I only got one solution. Take Aion off, which is eventually what I did.

The issue was placed legitimately, clearly and honestly.

Hey guys, you know what the difference is between games that use game guard, and games that don't use game guard? Their hacker protection has a different name, but it does the same thing.

Of course their hack protection plants files in yoru hard drive. The hack protection has to have the ability to scan all running processes. They see a memory editor running, or a bot, and boom you're banned.

Unfortunately, people have discovered that if you rename memoryeditorwhatever.exe to omgwtf.exe it will bypass hack detection programs, so now the hack detection programs are a bit more invasive.

Now be honest here, do you think NCSoft wants to plant files inside your operating system to watch yoru porn videos or read the e-mails of 500k people when they have a game to run? I really don't think they would bother wastign there time, but yes they could easily do so if they wanted.

The N.S.A. has unrestricted access to every computer connected to the internet. The  connection to the N.S.A. is built right into your computer's operating system, and no firewall in existance will block it. If you want to be worried about someone reading your e-mails and watching your porn videos, these would be the guys to worry about, not a gaming company.

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Originally posted by Souvlaki

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Originally posted by Locklain

Gameguard causes no issues with my computer so to be frank, I don't care about your problems just the same as you don't care about mine or anyone else's unless it is convenient for you.
shoziku is correct, Gamguard is in the game to stay.  I am also fairly certain that he is also correct about the OP using the EULA as a guise to make his point.  But you better look out, the Microsoft FBI will come and get'cha for breaking their precious legal agreement!

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Problem is that people don't really pay attention until it's too late. Just because it doesn't affect you (or bother you) doesn't mean it's not there. I've heard (parallelism) people watching a forest fire far away and say "we don't care, it's not near us". They weren't saying that twelve hours later.
I wonder, besides risking the security and stability of my system, having to suffer a possible OS failure, infringe my annual maintanance contract and lose time and money to restore everything... what other point am I trying to make?! To get NCSoft to dump Game Guard? I couldn't care less!
I was only trying to find out if I was covered to use the game in the first place. Since it appears I'm not, I only got one solution. Take Aion off, which is eventually what I did.
The issue was placed legitimately, clearly and honestly.

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Ok you just haaaaad to make me go and research it. Actually it's not a problem with Microsoft and it doesnt break any contract or agreement. But somethign DOES happen. Gameguard, along with many other programs, like Intuit Quickbooks, PC Cillin, and a couple other virus scanners, make a modification which renders Windows files as "tampered". It triggers reactivation. So if you have a valid copy of Windows you can simply reactivate and be done with it. Problem solved. But... if you have a bootleg copy... I'm sure the OP is fine, since his primary decision is based on keeping things on the level with Microsoft.

mm i do hope ff14 is good when its released,i ll leave computer gaming ,men this gets ridiculous.

theres more software from  various hacker ,add-on etc worling on the computer then the actual game no wonder game dev have so many issue everybodu want in but everybody want to cheat for various reson some tocheack the cheater other to be 

the cheater other to sell gold etc etc etc

in the end if ff14  is nice on ps3 it will be a better alternative

Never had a problem with gameguard. And if anyone does post some info and errors and ill help you.

But there are software I despise.    First on the list Ez-fix, overpriced hack. My boss makes me use it on our systems and most my days are spent finding ways to stop it messing with the database. Did I mention how overpriced it is.

Cookies: Sure there a good idea but why does every site barage you with cookies, and some wont let you access them unless You enable em. And those happen to be the sites users need to access.

Anti-Virus: For some reason free ones work better but most the time I find the software before the program gets a update to find it. And they mess up more than they fix.

Worldship: 50 steps just to do one simple thing.

Visual C++ IDE: Sure it makes making windows easier but It sucks compared to my old borland.

Vista: What the hell was MS thinking, hopefuly win7 is setup more like winxp and those before it. Its a pain just to do simple   things.

World of Warcraft: Not so much the program but my brother always tries to get me to play it. And I cant stand the thing. And everytime a new game comes out he gets hyped but then hears one bad thing and runs back to WoW.   Its like hes married to blizzard or something.   Or im starting to think Warcraft abuses him if he tries to leave her. 

Originally posted by shoziku

 

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Originally posted by Souvlaki

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Originally posted by Locklain

 

Gameguard causes no issues with my computer so to be frank, I don't care about your problems just the same as you don't care about mine or anyone else's unless it is convenient for you.
shoziku is correct, Gamguard is in the game to stay.  I am also fairly certain that he is also correct about the OP using the EULA as a guise to make his point.  But you better look out, the Microsoft FBI will come and get'cha for breaking their precious legal agreement!

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Problem is that people don't really pay attention until it's too late. Just because it doesn't affect you (or bother you) doesn't mean it's not there. I've heard (parallelism) people watching a forest fire far away and say "we don't care, it's not near us". They weren't saying that twelve hours later.
I wonder, besides risking the security and stability of my system, having to suffer a possible OS failure, infringe my annual maintanance contract and lose time and money to restore everything... what other point am I trying to make?! To get NCSoft to dump Game Guard? I couldn't care less!
I was only trying to find out if I was covered to use the game in the first place. Since it appears I'm not, I only got one solution. Take Aion off, which is eventually what I did.
The issue was placed legitimately, clearly and honestly.

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Ok you just haaaaad to make me go and research it. Actually it's not a problem with Microsoft and it doesnt break any contract or agreement. But somethign DOES happen. Gameguard, along with many other programs, like Intuit Quickbooks, PC Cillin, and a couple other virus scanners, make a modification which renders Windows files as "tampered". It triggers reactivation. So if you have a valid copy of Windows you can simply reactivate and be done with it. Problem solved. But... if you have a bootleg copy... I'm sure the OP is fine, since his primary decision is based on keeping things on the level with Microsoft.

Thank you so much for your time invested and your response! That was what I was trying to verify and I wish there was more information about it. I wish NCSoft would respond as clearly as you did when I opened a support ticket with them. They only sent me a "refund". Anyway.

One thing I learned from this entire experience is the following: Have an entire system only for gaming! At some point I may do just that so that I won't have to go through this again.