Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by xzyax
 
I guess that is another way of looking at it.
 
To me though, your definition would just mean that there are multiple linear paths... not necessarily non-linear.   But I'm willing to accept that there are differing opinions on non-linear as well. 

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It is not another point of view and it is not my definition, it is what it means.

Definition is not an opinion.

You can have your own definitions but don't bother to talk to people then because no one will understand you.

o.k. you win.

I'd just as soon not side-track this thread. 

I only play sandbox MMOs. Thats why i have to wait years between them. And i play Darkfall now.

And that´makes it a sandbox MMO. Otherwise i wouldent be playing it!

Originally posted by daarco

I only play sandbox MMOs. Thats why i have to wait years between them. And i play Darkfall now.

And that´makes it a sandbox MMO. Otherwise i wouldent be playing it!

Thank you daarco, that settles the arguement. 

Originally posted by daarco

I only play sandbox MMOs. Thats why i have to wait years between them. And i play Darkfall now.

And that´makes it a sandbox MMO. Otherwise i wouldent be playing it!

X 2

Now everyone stop bitching.

Originally posted by Ponico

You can’t really compare EVE with Darkfall.

EvE is basicaly 6 years old and that means 6 years of polish. Darkfall is not even one years old. (yes yes, 10 years of devellopement)

EVE has no cookie cutter builds and whatever you want to be, you can be. In EVE, if properly prepared, a 2 week old pilot can turn around the odds of a large scale operation of 300 versus 300. My alliance can spit out Titans and Dreadnaughts like it could be nothing and yet, you’ll see a lot of T1 Frigates and Cruisers in our fleet setups. There is no level 100 weapons. You can use a T2 weapon or you can sacrifice some DPS for better tanking or whatever you may need.

The SOV system and Darkfall City control is completely different and the impact of controling a system has significant impact on your whole alliance. You can build Jump bridge, it might be a bottleneck system or a gateway from empire to 0.0, you might use this system for it’s resource and build capital ships, it might be the only a border system between you and your arch enemie. I am skipping the list here but trying to compare the control of a Darkfall city and an EVE system is two different things. Both are great but the level of impact they have are far apart. Darkfall cities means that you have a few private resource nods, a little cool spawn near home and the crafting stations at your disposal. It doesn't matter which city you have, that's what you get in MOST situation.

Fair enough, 30 day skills suck… However, nothing forces you to train these skills and the advatange you’ll have are often barely noticeable. I’m an old player and I have never trained Dreadnaughts and motherships. I don’t think I’ll ever do it. I’m much more happy in flying my fast little interceptors during a fleet operation. Without interceptors, the big powerfull ships are extremely vulnerable to certain setups and attack. However, I am maxed out in every gallente and amarr skills and I can fly pretty much any ships up to Carriers T1, including the T3 ships.

Darkfall on the other hand offers a more dynamic way of becoming stronger but you quickly find out that it’s all the same thing and that only a few special item are extremely dominant in PVP. If you have better skills and higher ranked weapons, your pretty much the one that will win the fight. Exceptions exist of course. In EVE, exceptions are a bit rarer. you might have a good setup but then someone will know how to counter your ship and exploit the weakness of your “ultimate” fit.

I’ve destroyed faction fitted battleships with T1 Battlecruisers with basic modules and it was all thanks to a little electronic warfare module here, a bit of speed there and perhaps the right damage type with the right drones. Also keep in mind that having a level 4 skill versus a level 5 skill is often only a 5% difference. So your gun will hit me for 105 damage while I’ll hit you for 100 damage… fair enough, now what happens if I have the ammo to close in your angular velocity and you don’t? You won’t be doing much if you can’t hit me.

As the theme implied, Darkfall occurs on one continent, EVE occurs on more then 10 000 system (including wormhole space)

Both games have similar ideas but the scale and complexity of EVE crushes Darkfall. Even if you remove all the empty space and crush every hand made zones together, it’s still going to take your years to explore it all.
 

Great post, It's no secret that Eve is far more developed and a much deeper and complex game. I still think it's unfair to call a lesser game a non-sandbox because it doesnt have all the cool shit Eve has.

I play every sandbox game on and off, All of them are enjoyable in their own way. From UO to FE they give us the freedom to play the way we want and not be stuck in a lead me around like a dog progression mechanic.

All I want is the freedom to build my character, freedom to explore and affect the world. In all of these games I can.

IN Eve its through SoV (and more) in DF its through the Territorial control, in Ryzom its lore changing events and in other games it's different also.

Im just happy that we have games like this and we arent all forced to play WoW.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

ITs funny to read post saying that darkfall is not a sandbox. So i want to hear from them, why do they think darkfall is not a sandbox.

A sandbox mmorpg for me is a game where anyone that play are in the same world. Once you login, you cannot be separate from the other login players. Meaning that a sandbox have 0 instances. Its a world where you have the freedom to do anything you want, go anywhere you want and nothing will stop you. You are free to do anything you want in DF so its a sandbox.

What they should say to look less stupid then saying that darkfall is not a sandbox is simply saying that darkfall is not like the old UO or the old AC or the old SB or the old SWG and other old sandbox.

Darkfall is his own game like no other, but it still an mmorpg sandbox.

Comparason: GTA 4 online on free mode is a sandbox game. Why? There is no instance. You can travel in the whole world while the others stay in liberty city killing each others., but you are still active on the map with them. You can do anything you want and nothing stop you from doing it. You use the tools added on the sandbox freely.

What is the different between gta 4 free mode online and darfkall online? Darkfall online have more feature then GTA 4 free mode. Thats all. Does it make GTA 4 free mode being less sandbox then darkfall? No. Its just more limited then darkfall. Thats it.

Then, you have those coming in other threads saying that lineage is a sandbox, FFX1 is a sandbox. OMG. Games like DF is a single world. A single sandbox. You login, there is no login screen that will make you go away from other online players. In theme park mmorpg, they have lvl. LVL sometime are use to like (You have to be lvl 50 to equip that. LVL 70 to do that raid. LVL 80 to pvp with the other lvl 80 players. and others.) So theme park are not sandbox games. Because they have a style of sandbox that is reserved for those who earned that rank already. In darkfall, from day one, you can go anywhere you want in the world. Only pkers that road on the sandbox will kill you and you will have to get spawned back to your latest spawn stone that you clicked on.

 

Yo Realbigdeal, I'm really happy for you and I'm gonna let you finish, but Ultima Online had one of the best sandbox experiences of all time.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by daarco

I only play sandbox MMOs. Thats why i have to wait years between them. And i play Darkfall now.

And that´makes it a sandbox MMO. Otherwise i wouldent be playing it!

 

Thank you daarco, that settles the arguement. 

ha ha. Im really happy to see humor have not yet forsaken the DF section : )

I've said it a million times.  It's not a sandbox because it doesn't let you just do anything and that path can be viable.  Everything in this game serves one purpose and one purpose only.  It's all centered around PVP.  So in this game if you're not into PVP it's really not the game for you.  That's not a sandbox, that's just a PVP game. 

Originally posted by metalhead980

Read between the lines of all the people that say its not and you will see:

"I hate the game, so its not a sandbox".

 

Conversely, "I love the game, therefor it must be a sandbox."

Originally posted by Nipashnaka

Originally posted by metalhead980

Read between the lines of all the people that say its not and you will see:

"I hate the game, so its not a sandbox".

 

 

Conversely, "I love the game, therefor it must be a sandbox."

When I first tried Darkfall I hated the game but never once said it wasn't a sandbox.

The people on these forums are pretty screwed up it doesn't matter how good a game is they will attack it to sway people toward their game.

If a sandbox is more pvp focused they will bitch, if it's more pve focused they will bitch.

We saw what happened with DF and now FE is getting bashed for not being a sandbox.

People need to stop this hardcoded perception they have of what THEIR sandbox is, because a game isn't as robust as UO or Eve doesn't mean it isn't a sandbox.

Most MMO's i have played have more features than DF and strangely enough they are not called sandbox.

Just becuse there is FFA PvP full loot dosent mean it's a sandbox game simple as that, you guys who argue that DF is a sandbox game should really research what a sandbox game really is.

If Darkfall is a sandbox then Team Fortress 2 is a sandbox. I can melee, ranged, AoE, heal, and tank in TF2 in PvP. I can capture points and hold them, I can upgrade my gear, I can form a guild (clan) and play together against other guilds. That is the only objective of DF, to PvP and take over points, same as TF2. I cannot build a house or a boat or craft or gather minerals and maintain loot, so I would say DF has more sandbox fluff than TF2, but TF2 is also a lot more fun and a lot cheaper to play.

And I'm free to do what I want. I can join a server and just talk to friends, I can try to gather loot (new weapons), I can unlock rewards, get achievements, I can choose to fight or I can just explore the world (map). Goodness, you can say ANYTHING is a sandbox or NOT a sandbox, since it's an arbitrary term hardcore gamers made up. You can say Pong is sandbox. You can play on the left side or the right side. You can go up or down or not move at all! You can change the direction of the ball and you can PvP... amazing! Freedom of choice is amazing! I don't even have to pick up the paddle to play, I can just lay next to the controller and take a nap because the world the system is in is a sandbox itself!

Originally posted by Cereo

If Darkfall is a sandbox then Team Fortress 2 is a sandbox. I can melee, ranged, AoE, heal, and tank in TF2 in PvP. I can capture points and hold them, I can upgrade my gear, I can form a guild (clan) and play together against other guilds. That is the only objective of DF, to PvP and take over points, same as TF2. I cannot build a house or a boat or craft or gather minerals and maintain loot, so I would say DF has more sandbox fluff than TF2, but TF2 is also a lot more fun and a lot cheaper to play.

And I'm free to do what I want. I can join a server and just talk to friends, I can try to gather loot (new weapons), I can unlock rewards, get achievements, I can choose to fight or I can just explore the world (map). Goodness, you can say ANYTHING is a sandbox or NOT a sandbox, since it's an arbitrary term hardcore gamers made up. You can say Pong is sandbox. You can play on the left side or the right side. You can go up or down or not move at all! You can change the direction of the ball and you can PvP... amazing! Freedom of choice is amazing! I don't even have to pick up the paddle to play, I can just lay next to the controller and take a nap because the world the system is in is a sandbox itself!

I didnt read because you dont even know what you are talking about yourself. I mean, where you at lol ?

TF is not a sandbox for one reason. There are many different map to chose and its one game. Thats it.

Darkfall is one huge map. Only one. The number 1. 1 sandbox, no instance, no nothing else. Anything you do happen in one world.

I also made that thread to see who is ignorant enough to not know what is a sandbox, but they still posting to embarass themself lol.

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Originally posted by Realbigdeal

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Originally posted by Cereo

If Darkfall is a sandbox then Team Fortress 2 is a sandbox. I can melee, ranged, AoE, heal, and tank in TF2 in PvP. I can capture points and hold them, I can upgrade my gear, I can form a guild (clan) and play together against other guilds. That is the only objective of DF, to PvP and take over points, same as TF2. I cannot build a house or a boat or craft or gather minerals and maintain loot, so I would say DF has more sandbox fluff than TF2, but TF2 is also a lot more fun and a lot cheaper to play.
And I'm free to do what I want. I can join a server and just talk to friends, I can try to gather loot (new weapons), I can unlock rewards, get achievements, I can choose to fight or I can just explore the world (map). Goodness, you can say ANYTHING is a sandbox or NOT a sandbox, since it's an arbitrary term hardcore gamers made up. You can say Pong is sandbox. You can play on the left side or the right side. You can go up or down or not move at all! You can change the direction of the ball and you can PvP... amazing! Freedom of choice is amazing! I don't even have to pick up the paddle to play, I can just lay next to the controller and take a nap because the world the system is in is a sandbox itself!

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I didnt read because you dont even know what you are talking about yourself. I mean, where you at lol ?
TF is not a sandbox for one reason. There are many different map to chose and its one game. Thats it.
Darkfall is one huge map. Only one. The number 1. 1 sandbox, no instance, no nothing else. Anything you do happen in one world.
I also made that thread to see who is ignorant enough to not know what is a sandbox, but they still posting to embarass themself lol.

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1: That is in NO WAY a reason that something is not a sandbox.

2: If you did not read it, you are not able to say if Cereo knows the subject matter or not, are you?!

3: I cannot stand Darkfall and I do not think it is a sandbox. I base that on character freedom, though much of it could be used in a sandbox. It was just made by a very, very poor (I mean bad) developer.

Darkfall is a sandbox because it shows 2 essential criteria for a sandbox.

A seamless not instanced world and conntent in Darkfall is not limited by classes, player levels etc. You can go everywhere, you can participate in everything.

Opinions and subjective feelings,  likings and whatnot are absolutely irrelevant to that fact.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Darkfall is a sandbox because it shows 2 essential criteria for a sandbox.

A seamless not instanced world and conntent in Darkfall is not limited by classes, player levels etc. You can go everywhere, you can participate in everything.

Opinions and subjective feelings,  likings and whatnot are absolutely irrelevant to that fact.

Is WWIIOL considered a sandbox? It fits your criteria.

 C´mon!

Darkfall is a sandbox MMO. Everyone knows it. But some people cant get pass the idea they were wrong about it being vaporware or not in the first place. 

Originally posted by daarco

 C´mon!

Darkfall is a sandbox MMO. Everyone knows it. But some people cant get pass the idea they were wrong about it being vaporware or not in the first place. 

Darkfall is a PvP game with sandbox elements. That's where people are confused. What do you really do in Darkfall, seriously? You make or farm for armor and weapons and fight other players and/or NPCs.

I think that a lot of people confuse the 'emptiness' of Darkfall with a sandbox. A true sandbox doesn't give you an empty world to play in, it gives you a world and provides you will tools to play how you want.

So again, while Darkfall does have some sandbox elements, it is not a true sandbox MMORPG.

Edit: oh and as far as it being vaporware, with the amount of people playing it, it may as well be vaporware, or maybe abandonware?

I already told you people.. You are confusing sand box with litter box.

The game is a litterbox..There was a story on the news about it also, a kid was burried alive by a cat while playing in the "sandbox."

 i've havent played df, but was wondering if it were a sandbox or not. i know its pvp heavy, but are there all different types of characters?  crafters, harvesters, etc?  or just pvpers?  because to me, a sandbox is a game where players can do all different types of things.  where characters can be all different sorts of things.  if the gameplay is pretty much the same for everyone, it's not really much of a sandbox.

i dunno where instancing fits in, that's just what makes themeparks even worse.  it didn't used to have anything to do with it.