Darkfall wasn't built around a skill cap and it shouldn't be. I don't want a game where x beats y. That is WoW and that is why I hate WoW. People that want a skill cap are trying to turn this game into WoW b/c they think that a skill cap will allow them to auto-win like in WoW and b/c they want to compete with the hardcore gamers.

It is best if everyone is equal, that is a true test of player skill, not paper vs scissors like in most games, that is a bad player mechanic meant to let the noobs win.

Regular Darkfall haters do your worst. You dedicate so much time hating on a game you don't even play, makes me glad i'm not nearly as pathetic as that type of person.
 

Ive been saying this for years but the populous at large disagrees with my opinions on the matter.

I think everyone should have access to everything, there is no possible way anyone's personal skill can be the same as anyone elses, resulting in the first and purest diversity in mmorpg PVP skill - real player skill.

Never gonna happen but whatever.

Yep, I've been trying to say this for a long time.   I'll adapt either way, but all AV needs to do is put in global cool-downs on like skills/spells and we'd avoicd the spam of like damages people are concerned with.     Any way, I explain it in detail on this thread forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php and I don't consider 58% very much of a majority.

-CC

I fully agree.

There is no point what so ever with a skillcap in Darkfall.

And keeping track of all skill, that is a real skill too : )    Its not like the skills are working for you.

your arguement falls flat on it's face; there's a grind, thus even with no skill cap there will be x beats y as in x with higher skills beats y.  Why already have that.  Guess what? In order for that all skills theory to work there'd have to be no grinding, no leveling up skills instead we would have to play on an even ground everyone's 100 in everything.  Otherwise, there will always be x beats y except it'll be even worse than in WoW...  in WoW, you mostly fight people your same level in the arena's...  here, you'll get ganked unfairly and you'll get beaten simply by someone having btter gear/skills.

The only people that odn't want a skill cap are the people hacking/macroing or the people who've played for 6 months and feel entitled to be better than everyone else.

The people that matter; new players... you'll never hear them say i don't want a skill cap or hear them complain about easy leveling...  it's the people who've mastered everything already that dont want it... using things like bloodwalling to get it.

I say skill cap or at least some form of decay.  Everyone is the same otherwise and  to me that is boring and just another type of class. But then I still look for the RPG part of these games while most here especially on these boards do not.  Diversity is important. With MO looking to be in the tank though DF has some time on its side for this. I think it would allow for more subs if some kind of cap system was created though. Just my opinion of course.

Why would anyone ever want to stop progressing their characters?

Cap your skills and what's left? progression through gear?

I would rather they do what the Devs at Ryzom have done.

Basically you could skill up anyway you want but depending on armor and weapons one has equip certain skills are basically worthless.

Right now I'm seeing melee with heavy armor casting and shooting arrows better than a caster and archer in lighter armor in DF.

In Ryzom if I wear heavy armor I Run out of mana in 3-4 casts and each cast takes like 3 times longer to cast.

It's similar in a game like Eve. You can train everything but you can only support particular skills depending on what ship you take out in space.

DF should do something like that, Don't limit players skill learning because that keeps people playing.

My character in DF can bascially do anything he wants during a fight and that's where the issues come into play becuase a vet will always have an advantage.

Hard cap skill decay had been planned before the launch of Df. Its an other promise feature that Tasos will execute one day.

If you combine hard cap and skill decay, its still a cap. If you play UO, you would enderstand knew that its a good system.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Why would anyone ever want to stop progressing their characters?

Cap your skills and what's left? progression through gear?

I would rather they do what the Devs at Ryzom have done.

Basically you could skill up anyway you want but depending on armor and weapons one has equip certain skills are basically worthless.

Right now I'm seeing melee with heavy armor casting and shooting arrows better than a caster and archer in lighter armor in DF.

In Ryzom if I wear heavy armor I Run out of mana in 3-4 casts and each cast takes like 3 times longer to cast.

It's similar in a game like Eve. You can train everything but you can only support particular skills depending on what ship you take out in space.

DF should do something like that, Don't limit players skill learning because that keeps people playing.

My character in DF can bascially do anything he wants during a fight and that's where the issues come into play becuase a vet will always have an advantage.

 

The way you want a progression system in DF seem like you never played DF. It seem like you think DF is more a pve then pvp. We want war and a competitive war. A balanced war. Not an end game pvp war. Df was not suppose to be a grinding game and you would know that if you was in the forum before the game had been launch and if you readed all the tasos journal saying that DF will not be a grinding game like any other theme park where End game pvpers only can compete vs each others.

Limiting skills is what we need because at the end, all players will be a clone of other players. Now that they got reed of the grind, cap is what we need and soon, they will be able to focus on economy, war, gears and any other stuff that they can trow into our sandbox.

Maybe you are playing the wrong game metal or maybe you never knew what DF is about.

I can see you going back to runescape with no limit of learning skills.

I dunno but without skill cap the game will be totally unfair for new players.  Imagine a new player starting the game vs someone who's been playing for 2 years.   It will be impossible for that new person to ever compete vs the veteran.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Hard cap skill decay had been planned before the launch of Df. Its an other promise feature that Tasos will execute one day.

If you combine hard cap and skill decay, its still a cap. If you play UO, you would enderstand knew that its a good system.

I don't understand why people refer to "Promise" in a MMO in the same way one makes a vow upon getting married.    MMO's are games; they evolve, and many aspects of what makes each game work and fun are often unknown until the game is live.    It's not a question of if it was "Promised"; but solely a question of if it will make the game better and mroe fun.   On that note, we have different points of view.

I played UO for years, and started on day 1 of its release in September of 1997, so I fully understand.   The system UO used worked great for that game.   In DFO we get one character; that's it.     A character can only use one skill, spell, weapon, staff, bow, at a time.     With "Global Cool-Downs", the ONLY advantage a player with achievements in multiple fields of skills has is choice, and choice creates diversity, not the other way around.      If you play DFO, you know there are many many magic schools, and in October we shall see how AV enhances the melee and archer areas.    One can only cast ONE Spell at a time.   One still needs to decide what they feel is best in any given situation.      Against player X I may believe he/she is poorly geared for COLD damage, and lead with a cold debuff and cold damage via spell or a cold enchanted melee or bow.      It's not like I can debuff all elements then attack with all elementals.    First of all, global cool-downs would prevent that, and secondly, by the time I was done with all the debuffs, I'd probably be dead.

This debate to me is more academic vs actually playing the game.     From an academic view-point, I understand the requeet for caps.   From an In game viewpoint, it is rediculous, and find more unique characters with no caps at all.

-CC

Player skill shines where there is no difference in which weapon or paper-skill someone use.

Everyone has the same ability now to gain same paper-skill as everyone else and these allow his personal twicth skill to make the difference.  No seen in MMORPG before. These is amazing ! Darkfall is amazing ! 

with latest patch newbs cant even complain about catch up with vets. It is almost perfect like it is (everyone has the same chance to get the same paper-skill) and more skills for mellee and archery incoming. 

Not everyone can master darkfall some has to realize that and go play some easier stuff.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by metalhead980

Why would anyone ever want to stop progressing their characters?

Cap your skills and what's left? progression through gear?

I would rather they do what the Devs at Ryzom have done.

Basically you could skill up anyway you want but depending on armor and weapons one has equip certain skills are basically worthless.

Right now I'm seeing melee with heavy armor casting and shooting arrows better than a caster and archer in lighter armor in DF.

In Ryzom if I wear heavy armor I Run out of mana in 3-4 casts and each cast takes like 3 times longer to cast.

It's similar in a game like Eve. You can train everything but you can only support particular skills depending on what ship you take out in space.

DF should do something like that, Don't limit players skill learning because that keeps people playing.

My character in DF can bascially do anything he wants during a fight and that's where the issues come into play becuase a vet will always have an advantage.

 

 

The way you want a progression system in DF seem like you never played DF. It seem like you think DF is more a pve then pvp. We want war and a competitive war. A balanced war. Not an end game pvp war. Df was not suppose to be a grinding game and you would know that if you was in the forum before the game had been launch and if you readed all the tasos journal saying that DF will not be a grinding game like any other theme park where End game pvpers only can compete vs each others.

Limiting skills is what we need because at the end, all players will be a clone of other players. Now that they got reed of the grind, cap is what we need and soon, they will be able to focus on economy, war, gears and any other stuff that they can trow into our sandbox.

Maybe you are playing the wrong game metal or maybe you never knew what DF is about.

I can see you going back to runescape with no limit of learning skills.

1. Everyone DOES train the same skills, thus everyone is a clone.

2. DF is in fact a grind game, in fact it such a grind game that people resorted to cheating to lessen it.

3. DF is about 2 things, fraud, and making money via said fraud.

4. I can see you going back to DF, its the only place you obviously feel special.

Originally posted by ChinaCat

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Hard cap skill decay had been planned before the launch of Df. Its an other promise feature that Tasos will execute one day.

If you combine hard cap and skill decay, its still a cap. If you play UO, you would enderstand knew that its a good system.

 

I don't understand why people refer to "Promise" in a MMO in the same way one makes a vow upon getting married.    MMO's are games; they evolve, and many aspects of what makes each game work and fun are often unknown until the game is live.    It's not a question of if it was "Promised"; but solely a question of if it will make the game better and mroe fun.   On that note, we have different points of view.

I played UO for years, and started on day 1 of its release in September of 1997, so I fully understand.   The system UO used worked great for that game.   In DFO we get one character; that's it.     A character can only use one skill, spell, weapon, staff, bow, at a time.     With "Global Cool-Downs", the ONLY advantage a player with achievements in multiple fields of skills has is choice, and choice creates diversity, not the other way around.      If you play DFO, you know there are many many magic schools, and in October we shall see how AV enhances the melee and archer areas.    One can only cast ONE Spell at a time.   One still needs to decide what they feel is best in any given situation.      Against player X I may believe he/she is poorly geared for COLD damage, and lead with a cold debuff and cold damage via spell or a cold enchanted melee or bow.      It's not like I can debuff all elements then attack with all elementals.    First of all, global cool-downs would prevent that, and secondly, by the time I was done with all the debuffs, I'd probably be dead.

This debate to me is more academic vs actually playing the game.     From an academic view-point, I understand the requeet for caps.   From an In game viewpoint, it is rediculous, and find more unique characters with no caps at all.

-CC

Indeed you shouldnt talk about promises and darkfall. I have yet to come across a game in 32 years that promised as much as DF and delivered so little.

your mom needs a cap, cause I filled her up

in all honesty, I do think darkfall does need some sort of soft-cap or atleast penalties for wearing plate and casting magic or something like that

Originally posted by daveospice

your arguement falls flat on it's face; there's a grind, thus even with no skill cap there will be x beats y as in x with higher skills beats y.  Why already have that.  Guess what? In order for that all skills theory to work there'd have to be no grinding, no leveling up skills instead we would have to play on an even ground everyone's 100 in everything.  Otherwise, there will always be x beats y except it'll be even worse than in WoW...  in WoW, you mostly fight people your same level in the arena's...  here, you'll get ganked unfairly and you'll get beaten simply by someone having btter gear/skills.

The only people that odn't want a skill cap are the people hacking/macroing or the people who've played for 6 months and feel entitled to be better than everyone else.

 

The people that matter; new players... you'll never hear them say i don't want a skill cap or hear them complain about easy leveling...  it's the people who've mastered everything already that dont want it... using things like bloodwalling to get it.

There is no grind anymore.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by metalhead980

Why would anyone ever want to stop progressing their characters?

Cap your skills and what's left? progression through gear?

I would rather they do what the Devs at Ryzom have done.

Basically you could skill up anyway you want but depending on armor and weapons one has equip certain skills are basically worthless.

Right now I'm seeing melee with heavy armor casting and shooting arrows better than a caster and archer in lighter armor in DF.

In Ryzom if I wear heavy armor I Run out of mana in 3-4 casts and each cast takes like 3 times longer to cast.

It's similar in a game like Eve. You can train everything but you can only support particular skills depending on what ship you take out in space.

DF should do something like that, Don't limit players skill learning because that keeps people playing.

My character in DF can bascially do anything he wants during a fight and that's where the issues come into play becuase a vet will always have an advantage.

 

 

The way you want a progression system in DF seem like you never played DF.

You have no Idea what your talking about. The "progression" I want is already in DF. I'm fighting for it to stay the same even if that means vets having more skills than me forever since I'm casual.

Yes I play DF, "progression" is not a pve only term.

Originally posted by daveospice

your arguement falls flat on it's face; there's a grind, thus even with no skill cap there will be x beats y as in x with higher skills beats y.  Why already have that.  Guess what? In order for that all skills theory to work there'd have to be no grinding, no leveling up skills instead we would have to play on an even ground everyone's 100 in everything.  Otherwise, there will always be x beats y except it'll be even worse than in WoW...  in WoW, you mostly fight people your same level in the arena's...  here, you'll get ganked unfairly and you'll get beaten simply by someone having btter gear/skills.

you obviously missed the logic train.  What a terrible analogy.  a player without maxed skills can still beat a player with maxed skills in everthing.  Every player can get the exact same abilities as his opponent if he puts forth the time and effort.   Those people who want a skill cap and skill decay want specialization so that they can be the rock to a scissors.  Skill caps would turn this into rock vs scissors game, there are loads of other games like that.  In Darkfall you can do everything your opponent can do if you put forth the effort.  Quit trying to turn the game into WoW just so you can actually manage to kill someone by limiting players that dedicate more effort into their characters than you want to.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by metalhead980

Why would anyone ever want to stop progressing their characters?

Cap your skills and what's left? progression through gear?

I would rather they do what the Devs at Ryzom have done.

Basically you could skill up anyway you want but depending on armor and weapons one has equip certain skills are basically worthless.

Right now I'm seeing melee with heavy armor casting and shooting arrows better than a caster and archer in lighter armor in DF.

In Ryzom if I wear heavy armor I Run out of mana in 3-4 casts and each cast takes like 3 times longer to cast.

It's similar in a game like Eve. You can train everything but you can only support particular skills depending on what ship you take out in space.

DF should do something like that, Don't limit players skill learning because that keeps people playing.

My character in DF can bascially do anything he wants during a fight and that's where the issues come into play becuase a vet will always have an advantage.

 

 

The way you want a progression system in DF seem like you never played DF. It seem like you think DF is more a pve then pvp. We want war and a competitive war. A balanced war. Not an end game pvp war. Df was not suppose to be a grinding game and you would know that if you was in the forum before the game had been launch and if you readed all the tasos journal saying that DF will not be a grinding game like any other theme park where End game pvpers only can compete vs each others.

Limiting skills is what we need because at the end, all players will be a clone of other players. Now that they got reed of the grind, cap is what we need and soon, they will be able to focus on economy, war, gears and any other stuff that they can trow into our sandbox.

Maybe you are playing the wrong game metal or maybe you never knew what DF is about.

I can see you going back to runescape with no limit of learning skills.

when you start adding skill cap then that forces specialization.  specialization means paper vs scissors.  Sorry but that is the reason I don't play wow, there are loads of paper vs scissors games, go play them if character diversity is more important to you than standing an equal chance in a fight.  There are 8 different magic schools but having 3 of them maxed is more than you really need. 

Originally posted by trashburnin

Originally posted by daveospice

your arguement falls flat on it's face; there's a grind, thus even with no skill cap there will be x beats y as in x with higher skills beats y.  Why already have that.  Guess what? In order for that all skills theory to work there'd have to be no grinding, no leveling up skills instead we would have to play on an even ground everyone's 100 in everything.  Otherwise, there will always be x beats y except it'll be even worse than in WoW...  in WoW, you mostly fight people your same level in the arena's...  here, you'll get ganked unfairly and you'll get beaten simply by someone having btter gear/skills.

 

you obviously missed the logic train.  What a terrible analogy.  a player without maxed skills can still beat a player with maxed skills in everthing.  Every player can get the exact same abilities as his opponent if he puts forth the time and effort.   Those people who want a skill cap and skill decay want specialization so that they can be the rock to a scissors.  Skill caps would turn this into rock vs scissors game, there are loads of other games like that.  In Darkfall you can do everything your opponent can do if you put forth the effort.  Quit trying to turn the game into WoW just so you can actually manage to kill someone by limiting players that dedicate more effort into their characters than you want to.

Lets compar a fighting game to a rock paper scissors system.

In street fighter 2, all the fighter do different stuff, a fighter cannot counter an other fighter. I mean, if you are better then someone else, you win. You dont win because you have a character that can counter his character. If you want the kind of balance that all players should be the same so there will be no rock paper scissors, in that case, in all the street fighters,we would get more ryu akuma ken teal we get 8 characters or more and game complete, release. That would be damn lame.

For a warfare game like DF, by having many characters in game with different set of skills, a guild leader will have more difficulties to make strategies. Set his tankers, his archers and his mage. Other hybrid do anything they want. Each war will look like a game of Empire total war. At the moment, zerg rule in darkfall, but in a bad way. The guild leader only say rush and die. They all rush and die teal they win the castle. There is no strategies, they all think about them self or dying for the guild.

Leader say AOE, All mage and archers strike at the zerg. If he say melee, All mounted players mount and those who are not usually good while mounted dismount only when they arrive near the other zerg to fight with their 2 hand. AOE mage will stop because they dont want to hit their friends so they will take smaller aoe or just wait. Archers will carefully aim and strike since they dont do aoe damage. There will be healers too, but at the moment, so many players max self heal so healers is are like rejected from DF seriously. All players support themself. Where is the team work? The only teamwork we get is by joining a zerg guild.

With a cap, players will help other players. Why? Because some players dont have those set of skills.