Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

Sorry to hear you've come to that conclusion. Was looking forward to your review of the game. I'm still waiting for launch or open beta so I guess I'll form my own opinions then.

I know of some major publishers who have some games that seem to be very good at co-op play based PvE : (such as EQ2.) Obviously not an indie dev and obviously not entirely group focused, but the group play is there if you look for it. Next year there are titles like Heroes of Telara or who knows, maybe even FFIV that fit the bill, but those are a long time coming & we don't know much about them yet. Otherwise, you may be waiting for a while. PvP is all the rage these days.

Hang in there and hope you find what you are looking for...

Originally posted by lancelot76

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

 

Sorry to hear you've come to that conclusion. Was looking forward to your review of the game. I'm still waiting for launch or open beta so I guess I'll form my own opinions then.

I know of some major publishers who have some games that seem to be very good at co-op play based PvE : (such as EQ2.) Obviously not an indie dev and obviously not entirely group focused, but the group play is there if you look for it. Next year there are titles like Heroes of Telara or who knows, maybe even FFIV that fit the bill, but those are a long time coming & we don't know much about them yet. Otherwise, you may be waiting for a while. PvP is all the rage these days.

Hang in there and hope you find what you are looking for...

Thx Lance :)

I am really dissapointed about it all tbh... I would have loved to support an indie doing something good. I was really hoping this game had it's eye on community with ideas like MyAlgannon etc... I personally believe you only get community by design in a MMORPG though, and thats not by making it '95% soloable' to play.  

Gonna give Aion a go for a while I think, I am already seeing lots of calls for groups at around L20, and then theres the Abyss etc to come... We will see how it plays out. I am sure it will be fun for a month at least.

do the devs read these things? I love alot of what they're doing, but why the hell make a single player mmo? There are plenty of single player rpgs that are a lot better games for playing solo. I hope this isn't the case with this game; they need to foster community by making sure there is a valid reason to group, maybe group exp, and instance exp bonusing. It should be possible to solo to 50, but it should be faster to do it by grouping. Just my two cents though.

Originally posted by KingGator

do the devs read these things? I love alot of what they're doing, but why the hell make a single player mmo? There are plenty of single player rpgs that are a lot better games for playing solo. I hope this isn't the case with this game; they need to foster community by making sure there is a valid reason to group, maybe group exp, and instance exp bonusing. It should be possible to solo to 50, but it should be faster to do it by grouping. Just my two cents though.

Even if they did, it's way too late to change their design focus from solo to group when their release date has been stated as late Oct :(

I agree with what you are saying here though. Sure, solo should be in game, thats fine and good, but the problem is when it becomes a MMORPGs focus, and that seems to have happened here.

They should have been brave enough to go for the group required co-op market imo, but thats life.

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

final Fantasy?

I actually find this interesting, because I won't play a game unless I CAN solo most of it if I want.  I love grouping with friends and friendly strangers -- I stick with games longer when my friends are playing them -- but if I find myself with time to play yet need to be ready to bail at a moment's notice (which happens a lot), I want to be able to solo.   I see people saying that they need to be able to solo a lot, for varying reasons.

That said, if people want to group, they'll group.  If people are forced to group because they can't play/advance otherwise, they'll probably find a different game.  It's the difference between offering options and railroading people.  I've generally found it's better to use the carrot than the stick.

Long way of saying I think you're selling the game short because I think they made the wiser choice, and I hope you'll give it a chance.  :)

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

FFXI fits your need to the tee.   There is only 1 job that can solo ( beastmaster ). 

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

And you know you can solo 95% of this how?  Are you in the closed Beta?  If so you would know whats going on and of course know you can't talk about it until they lift the NDA.  I assure you that you most likely wont be able to solo 95% of the game.

Im in the Closed Beta so I can't discuss anything.  Just wondering where your getting your idea from that you can solo 95% of the game?

is a solo MMO bad thing?

I found that when they reduced the amount of soloable content in WoW it started to turn sour for me. Plenty of people want a soloable game which also has a social network in it. Why would soloable material be bad?

Originally posted by haratu

is a solo MMO bad thing?

No, but that was not the point of the OP. There are enough of those around and he was looking for something different in that respect.

Well, since 95% of the MMO players out there prefer to solo, and 95% of MMORPG's created today are soloable, it makes sense for them to provide content that is 95% soloable by 95% of the potential subscriber base.

edit: I'm 95% sure that I'm correct in my statistical analysis above.

Remeber way back when, in the "old" days? One would have to shout to get a certain class to fill out the group? Made your toon special and gave a purpose to. ahhh those were the days. (EQ, Camalot) Really felt good to be part of a group and really contributing. And the squables? haa haa "Heal me Heal me!!  Bastard never healed me! haa haa ahhh those were the days. I have hopes for this game. Very burnt out over the years. Played them all. Now playing Eve but thats a horse of another color.

This debate will never be resolved. I see both sides of the coin. There is no black and white answer. Do what you want. Play what you want. But always.... Game till you bleed.....

Originally posted by Delanor

Originally posted by haratu

is a solo MMO bad thing?

No, but that was not the point of the OP. There are enough of those around and he was looking for something different in that respect.

For those of us that prefer to group alot, too much solo content is a bad thing. Too many people won't spend even a few minutes LFG before they head out to the solo content and give up on grouping. Instanced grouped content isn't much better as soon as the instance is over, people disperse to go do their own thing. While this kind of game isn't for everyone, some of us crave a group heavy game in this sea of solo games.

Originally posted by vesavius

Dosent look like this is gonna be the co-op play based PvE MMORPG I am looking for, which is a real shame to me.

Any game that people can solo through, history shows us they WILL solo through, with all the repercussions that has on community etc, so I guess this is where I wish he devs best of luck and go my own way.

Maybe one day an indie dev will get that there is a long term profitable co-op group based PvE market out there waiting to be tapped, rather then bending over backwards to sell the game to the usually short term soloist player.

  Sorry to hear this is not for you. However for myself this is just what I was looking for. Being forced to group up with people I just frankly cannot stand has caused me to cancel many other subscriptions. The ones people mock about being dumbed down or soloable actually get more subscribers then the others who are trying to be more elite.

 To be honest, you can solo your way to max level on any MMO. The point of a MMO is multiplayer but at the same time it is a virtual world where you can play as you wish. Some people prefer the challenge of solo play while others like the group aspect. I for one do prefer to solo until i feel like getting the advanced loot you only get from group instances and raids. I don't think it is a bad thing to be able to solo all in all. It is purely a matter of personal choice. 

p.s. And if a game does come out that you HAVE to group to achieve the top level/rank/whatever then I for one will not play it. Just not my style :)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Well, since 95% of the MMO players out there prefer to solo, and 95% of MMORPG's created today are soloable, it makes sense for them to provide content that is 95% soloable by 95% of the potential subscriber base.

edit: I'm 95% sure that I'm correct in my statistical analysis above.

I agree with that 95%!

Gotta love all the crying from people who can't make friends on their own.  "If people aren't forced to play with me, no one will!!"

I love to solo.  And I love to group.  Sometimes I solo because I don't have time for a group, and sometimes I'm just not in the mood. 

Other times I group up to do quests that I could solo, just because I'm in the mood, because I'm hanging out with friends.

Sometimes it's easier to group up,

Isn't choice a wonderful thing?

Originally posted by Nevena

I actually find this interesting, because I won't play a game unless I CAN solo most of it if I want.  I love grouping with friends and friendly strangers -- I stick with games longer when my friends are playing them -- but if I find myself with time to play yet need to be ready to bail at a moment's notice (which happens a lot), I want to be able to solo.   I see people saying that they need to be able to solo a lot, for varying reasons.

That said, if people want to group, they'll group.  If people are forced to group because they can't play/advance otherwise, they'll probably find a different game.  It's the difference between offering options and railroading people.  I've generally found it's better to use the carrot than the stick.

Long way of saying I think you're selling the game short because I think they made the wiser choice, and I hope you'll give it a chance.  :)

 

In my experience with grouping games most people just don't bail out. I played FFXI for 3 years and  pretty much everyone I grouped with found a replacement before they left.  There would be times when Id be in the same group with the same people for 4 hours.  But on the other hand any game where you can solo it people will bail because they know you wont have a problem finishing what you need because you can solo it.

i thought this game was more of a PvP game anyway? well RvR (religion vs religion), for me thats the biggest selling point and most unique feature of the game. if you check out their site, the way its set up is very unique. you pick your class and depending on what religion you choose your spells are different from other people playing the same class have if they are a different religion. and the coolest thing i've read so far is the god you worship is out in the world roaming and you can ineract with him, not only that but the gods are GM controlled. you go to war with the other religion your god with right there with you in the fight and is being played by a GM against the other religions god wich is also controlled by a gm. its honestly the best feature about the game. if it didn't have this new idea i wouldn't even be interested in the least bit for the game.