Originally posted by templarga

Sorry outside of Eve or some of the earlier MMO's (that have now been dumbed down to nothingness), no MMO is harder than another. In MMo's difficulty is only in terms of a time sink anyway. Look at everyone say WOW is easy because you can level so fast. See, time sink.

AIon is the same way. It is easy to play and it is as easy as any other MMo out there. At higher levels it is harder to level therefore more of a time sink and gives the false impression of being harder.

If you want a difficult game, I would look beyond MMO's. I hear Tetris can be a real challenge.

That's simply not true.  Time invested does not equate to effort required.  I'd have to agree that on the whole, MMOs are easy, but that degree varies by the game.  On top of that, PVP is where difficulty really sets in, and challenges vary by the fight.  PVP is where your abilities are tested, or at least where people hope to test them.  From all I hear of WOTLK PVP, it's almost entirely based on gear (which I don't doubt).  People like what they know of Aion and are excited because of the lack of that very factor, and that you can compete without devoting every minute of every day to your character.

While I don't think wow is hard to play, per say, I think Aion can't touch it in any sort of "hardness" factor.

PvE? Uhmm, tank and spank for basically everything.  If attacking with specials roots melee, that means the bosses HAVE to be easier since melee can't be moving away as they put in their last hit or two.

From the videos I've seen of the "best" PvP  fights and such, it looks pretty easy.  Auto follow lol?  It seems that responsiveness matters little compared to the plethera of abilities to use to impede the person you are fighting in wow.

It's not clunky at all like WAR is, but just has that asian PvP feel.  Which is what it is.

People say that WoW is easy, yet they don't do the hardmodes, they don't do great in the arena.  They do the stuff that is made to be easy.  Granted, the boss fights could be rough and new in Aion, I just don't see it with the current combat system.  We shall find out more soon though.

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by templarga

Sorry outside of Eve or some of the earlier MMO's (that have now been dumbed down to nothingness), no MMO is harder than another. In MMo's difficulty is only in terms of a time sink anyway. Look at everyone say WOW is easy because you can level so fast. See, time sink.

AIon is the same way. It is easy to play and it is as easy as any other MMo out there. At higher levels it is harder to level therefore more of a time sink and gives the false impression of being harder.

If you want a difficult game, I would look beyond MMO's. I hear Tetris can be a real challenge.

 

That's simply not true.  Time invested does not equate to effort required.  I'd have to agree that on the whole, MMOs are easy, but that degree varies by the game.  On top of that, PVP is where difficulty really sets in, and challenges vary by the fight.  PVP is where your abilities are tested, or at least where people hope to test them.  From all I hear of WOTLK PVP, it's almost entirely based on gear (which I don't doubt).  People like what they know of Aion and are excited because of the lack of that very factor, and that you can compete without devoting every minute of every day to your character.

I have played MMO's since EQ and other than PVP I have, not once, been like "Man, that was difficult". I agree PVP is a real challenge but that is because its the player on the other character and not AI. PVE, by nature, is only as difficult as the time invested. I have never found another way to measure the difficulty of PVE.

Originally posted by Swanea

While I don't think wow is hard to play, per say, I think Aion can't touch it in any sort of "hardness" factor.

PvE? Uhmm, tank and spank for basically everything.  If attacking with specials roots melee, that means the bosses HAVE to be easier since melee can't be moving away as they put in their last hit or two.

From the videos I've seen of the "best" PvP  fights and such, it looks pretty easy.  Auto follow lol?  It seems that responsiveness matters little compared to the plethera of abilities to use to impede the person you are fighting in wow.

It's not clunky at all like WAR is, but just has that asian PvP feel.  Which is what it is.

 

People say that WoW is easy, yet they don't do the hardmodes, they don't do great in the arena.  They do the stuff that is made to be easy.  Granted, the boss fights could be rough and new in Aion, I just don't see it with the current combat system.  We shall find out more soon though.

These are the same hardmodes that where completed more or less in the week of release by pro-gammer guilds? This is the same game that the entire wrath expansion was completed in 3 days by pro-gamming guilds? Sadly I was in one of the guilds that completed all the content on the 5th day of release but w/e. Point is, what was hard in WoW is no longer there. What was hard was Sunwell. The hardest thing WoW ever had and will ever have. Vashj and Kael before they "opened up BT and MH" to the masses was hard. Those where diffecult time. Time where you could tell the strong and skilled players from the gear they had. Now, you can't tell shit. Everyone looks the same. Everyone has the same gear. You basically walk into any raid now kill a rat and get epics. Plz. I can only laugh when you call that difficult. 

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by templarga

Sorry outside of Eve or some of the earlier MMO's (that have now been dumbed down to nothingness), no MMO is harder than another. In MMo's difficulty is only in terms of a time sink anyway. Look at everyone say WOW is easy because you can level so fast. See, time sink.

AIon is the same way. It is easy to play and it is as easy as any other MMo out there. At higher levels it is harder to level therefore more of a time sink and gives the false impression of being harder.

If you want a difficult game, I would look beyond MMO's. I hear Tetris can be a real challenge.

 

That's simply not true.  Time invested does not equate to effort required.  I'd have to agree that on the whole, MMOs are easy, but that degree varies by the game.  On top of that, PVP is where difficulty really sets in, and challenges vary by the fight.  PVP is where your abilities are tested, or at least where people hope to test them.  From all I hear of WOTLK PVP, it's almost entirely based on gear (which I don't doubt).  People like what they know of Aion and are excited because of the lack of that very factor, and that you can compete without devoting every minute of every day to your character.

I have played MMO's since EQ and other than PVP I have, not once, been like "Man, that was difficult". I agree PVP is a real challenge but that is because its the player on the other character and not AI. PVE, by nature, is only as difficult as the time invested. I have never found another way to measure the difficulty of PVE.

Well man, all I can say is that you sir, are a pro (or a slacker).

Even in Wow (vanilla/BC) there were fights where, as tank/dps/heals I remember going "whew, that fight was tough".  There are simply some fights that require far, far more attention and effort than others.  Perpetual fights that involve little more than tapping 1, 2, 3 will never lead you to any challenge.  But, for example, fights on my mage which required a poly target, frost novas, cones of cold (to keep mobs off the party that the tank alone could not handle) were always a blast.  Tanking in situations where I had to hold threat off DPS and heals (back when it was a challenge and not just automatic) were always fun for me.  Healing fights where I was constantly swapping targets, keeping the entire group up, and dealing with whatever was going on were fun.  Prior to gear or levels giving you such a massive advantage over things to a point where they no longer pose a threat, things in WoW were fun and offered challenges.  In Aion, that feeling is back.  You don't just waltz into an area and know there's no threat.  You go in respecting the mobs, and knowing that if one guy fucks up and grabs an add, it may call friends, and there goes your group.  At the same time, handling those types of situations is difficult, and when you do, there's an actual feeling of accomplishment, rather than "Whew, sure glad we just plowed through that dungeon in 30 seconds".

I'll also add that difficulty is all in what you, the player, makes of it.  The amount of effort each individual will put forth determines how challenging they may find something.  Personally, I rarely, if ever, bother playing DPS these days.  Far too long have I played DPS in the past where the norm WAS watching the tank hold the mob, while you spam the same skill(s) over and over while watching TV/jerking off with your other hand.  As a tank or healer, I find that there is simply more to do in most games.  Dealing with multiple mobs at once, or keeping up multiple people at once always offers more a challenge than sitting back and spamming damage.  That said, I loved my vanilla WoW mage for all its CC, and my EQ2 coercer for all the involvement they required to play well.  Sure I could've sat there and spammed damage on both of them in groups, but playing your character to its full potential was the challenge, and I thoroughly enjoyed doing that, and still do in whatever I play.

In all, some games still offer a challenge to the player that wants to be as good as they can (and is bored with WoW), and Aion is one of them (for me, so far).  I'm sure just getting by is enough for plenty, though, and for those people, MMOs are easy.  For others, they're just too cool for school, and all MMOs are a joke in terms of difficulty.

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by templarga

Sorry outside of Eve or some of the earlier MMO's (that have now been dumbed down to nothingness), no MMO is harder than another. In MMo's difficulty is only in terms of a time sink anyway. Look at everyone say WOW is easy because you can level so fast. See, time sink.

AIon is the same way. It is easy to play and it is as easy as any other MMo out there. At higher levels it is harder to level therefore more of a time sink and gives the false impression of being harder.

If you want a difficult game, I would look beyond MMO's. I hear Tetris can be a real challenge.

 

That's simply not true.  Time invested does not equate to effort required.  I'd have to agree that on the whole, MMOs are easy, but that degree varies by the game.  On top of that, PVP is where difficulty really sets in, and challenges vary by the fight.  PVP is where your abilities are tested, or at least where people hope to test them.  From all I hear of WOTLK PVP, it's almost entirely based on gear (which I don't doubt).  People like what they know of Aion and are excited because of the lack of that very factor, and that you can compete without devoting every minute of every day to your character.

I have played MMO's since EQ and other than PVP I have, not once, been like "Man, that was difficult". I agree PVP is a real challenge but that is because its the player on the other character and not AI. PVE, by nature, is only as difficult as the time invested. I have never found another way to measure the difficulty of PVE.

 

Well man, all I can say is that you sir, are a pro (or a slacker).

Even in Wow (vanilla/BC) there were fights where, as tank/dps/heals I remember going "whew, that fight was tough".  There are simply some fights that require far, far more attention and effort than others.  Perpetual fights that involve little more than tapping 1, 2, 3 will never lead you to any challenge.  But, for example, fights on my mage which required a poly target, frost novas, cones of cold (to keep mobs off the party that the tank alone could not handle) were always a blast.  Tanking in situations where I had to hold threat off DPS and heals (back when it was a challenge and not just automatic) were always fun for me.  Healing fights where I was constantly swapping targets, keeping the entire group up, and dealing with whatever was going on were fun.  Prior to gear or levels giving you such a massive advantage over things to a point where they no longer pose a threat, things in WoW were fun and offered challenges.  In Aion, that feeling is back.  You don't just waltz into an area and know there's no threat.  You go in respecting the mobs, and knowing that if one guy fucks up and grabs an add, it may call friends, and there goes your group.  At the same time, handling those types of situations is difficult, and when you do, there's an actual feeling of accomplishment, rather than "Whew, sure glad we just plowed through that dungeon in 30 seconds".

I'll also add that difficulty is all in what you, the player, makes of it.  The amount of effort each individual will put forth determines how challenging they may find something.  Personally, I rarely, if ever, bother playing DPS these days.  Far too long have I played DPS in the past where the norm WAS watching the tank hold the mob, while you spam the same skill(s) over and over while watching TV/jerking off with your other hand.  As a tank or healer, I find that there is simply more to do in most games.  Dealing with multiple mobs at once, or keeping up multiple people at once always offers more a challenge than sitting back and spamming damage.  That said, I loved my vanilla WoW mage for all its CC, and my EQ2 coercer for all the involvement they required to play well.  Sure I could've sat there and spammed damage on both of them in groups, but playing your character to its full potential was the challenge, and I thoroughly enjoyed doing that, and still do in whatever I play.

In all, some games still offer a challenge to the player that wants to be as good as they can (and is bored with WoW), and Aion is one of them (for me, so far).  I'm sure just getting by is enough for plenty, though, and for those people, MMOs are easy.  For others, they're just too cool for school, and all MMOs are a joke in terms of difficulty.

I did kinda read this wall of text fast as I skimed threw it so I'm just gunna say flat out I missed the overal point of your post. 

That said as for being a pro-gamer, yes I am. A slacker? I don't get what you mean like in school? Hardly I still maintain my 3.5 GPA so it's not that either. It isn't hard to come home from school and work and sit at your computer and raid for 3-4 hrs. If you are saying you like Aion than yeah I'm with you on that b/c it is more difficult early on than WoW and I personally love the Asian xp touch of if you die you lose xp. It lets the programers surpass the n00bs if you will letting you know that if you group with a person at a higher lvl you can count on him or she holding their own since they too reached the point that your at. 

Vanilla WoW I was a rogue and DPSing was difficult. (yes difficult, everyone likes to joke with rogue dps but being the one class that had too always worry about their single target threat wasn't fun especially later on with bosses that dropped threat on the tanks. My rogue would always be there on the charts. In sunwell I was a priest and anyone who says healing on a priest wasn't difficult in sunwell can go kill themselves right now. Even in BT that shit was insane.)

....I just forgot wth we are even talking about now so w/e It's late and I got to get up early for work school tomorrow -.-

Originally posted by Hepisodic 

<snip> That said as for being a pro-gamer, yes I am. A slacker? I don't get what you mean <snip>

No no no... sorry for the misunderstanding. 

I'm referring to slackers in-game.  People who play their characters half-assed.  The guys who could throw a debuff, and make everyone's (including their own) damage higher, but forego it to continue pumping DPS so their personal numbers are higher.  The guys who refuse to heal anyone but the main tank because "Noone else should take damage".  The tanks that insist that everything be CC'd at all times because more than one mob is too much for them to handle (not because of gear or damage taken, but effort).  The same folks who, in games that are centric to gear (WoW), ignore their gear, don't learn their class, and generally suck because they can, and get away with it solo... then, when they actually get into a group and people don't want to play with them, get all upset and freak out screaming "I GOT KICKED BCUZ OF MY GEAR!11" when in reality, it's because they didn't lift a finger to make themselves better when it should be a given to anyone with common sense ("What's this skill do???!!!!" - mouse over and detailed description pops up).

The overall point was that the challenges in any MMO are what you make them.  If you approach everything in the simplest way possible, you're gonna fall asleep.  If you play your character in such a way that you only need one hand, and two buttons, you're gonna hate it and call it easy.  If you use your character (with friends) to their full potential, all of these games can be challenging to a degree, and offer far more fun than anyone will find playing as a loner.  Get some PVP in there, and even better.

Ive played WoW for years and have numerous 80's.

Up till 20 Aoin is comparable with quests etc easymode.

When you hit 20 things become a lot harder.

Open world pvp ..ganked lots if in the pvp zones.

Grind fest.

There is MUCH more grind in Aoin compared to WoW

WoW is the mmorpg' immigrants ez mode

And blizzard does this very well and the ply in more players everyday by making the game easier and easier.

Aion doesnt.

I play a Sorcerer, when levelling ONE wrong spell im dead.

That is what makes this game good imo

Its not given on a plate.

There are times in aion when I fight a mob my lvl I can kill it and walk away without a scratch.  Fight the same mob again but use a different rotation on my skills /  buffs or don't get a block, parry, stun, or crit  I can still kill it but will walk away with 1/2 to 1/4 HP left.  If I get 2 on me I'm in a knock out brawl to the death, iF I get 3 on me I'm running for the exit.

I don't know how wow is but in aion your not going to mass pull kill mobs in large quantities.

Originally posted by Swanea

While I don't think wow is hard to play, per say, I think Aion can't touch it in any sort of "hardness" factor.

PvE? Uhmm, tank and spank for basically everything.  If attacking with specials roots melee, that means the bosses HAVE to be easier since melee can't be moving away as they put in their last hit or two.

From the videos I've seen of the "best" PvP  fights and such, it looks pretty easy.  Auto follow lol?  It seems that responsiveness matters little compared to the plethera of abilities to use to impede the person you are fighting in wow.

It's not clunky at all like WAR is, but just has that asian PvP feel.  Which is what it is.

 

People say that WoW is easy, yet they don't do the hardmodes, they don't do great in the arena.  They do the stuff that is made to be easy.  Granted, the boss fights could be rough and new in Aion, I just don't see it with the current combat system.  We shall find out more soon though.

Why do people make comments when they have only done this.

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