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Jita (General)  » Eve has some of the crappiest PvP in a game.

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90 posts found
  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2257

 
OP  9/08/09 6:52:20 PM#1

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

  qazyman

Gurista

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 1790

A Good Sandbox isn't about your characters abilities. It's about the players ability.

9/08/09 10:06:19 PM#2

Well EVE is an empire building game that has allot of open PVP areas. The PVP that evolves from people building their empires is any thing but lame. If you’re just flying around looking for PVP with no other interest you first have to find the right environment. It's certainly possible but it's not the way the game is designed.

Also if your trying to say people aren’t willing to fight when out gunned or risk losing a ship for a little PVP, I would say your just plain wrong. People do it all the time, especially after they have accumulated a little wealth and don’t mind losing a ship or two.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19284

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/08/09 10:09:44 PM#3

EVE isn't about fair fights, its about winning and losing.

edited: I was tired when I first replied and was being snarky for no good reason.  Removed the uncalled for dig at the OP.

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  User Deleted
9/08/09 10:11:28 PM#4
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

  tbox

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 375

9/08/09 10:28:21 PM#5
Originally posted by dhayes68
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

 

   
Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   
In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.
 
I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing. 
 

 

 

  User Deleted
9/08/09 10:39:50 PM#6
Originally posted by tbox
Originally posted by dhayes68
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

 

   
Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   
In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.
 
I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing.  

 

Granted, pointless ganking does take place, as in any mmo with open world pvp, but what I was referring to is that EvE doesn't provide for pvp just for the sake of pvp to see who is better at pvp. (unless players agree to that before they fight.) Generally speaking at least one of the combatants has some stake in the outcome of pvp, which is why I don't refer to it as pointless. PvP takes place in the context of the world in which the game is played in. That is satisfying for some, not for others, but I wouldn't label it as a flaw of the game.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

9/08/09 10:46:38 PM#7

The fights in EvE are often one-sided because they're not pointless. People who care about winning will do everything they are able to maximise their chances. The chances of two sides in a fight having equal capabilities are low. This is so obvious as to be pretty much a tautology. You only get "fair fights" when at least one side doesn't really care about winning. In essence, what you're asking for is Arena combat.

 Luckily, EvE provides even this facility:

Log in to SiSi.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  qazyman

Gurista

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 1790

A Good Sandbox isn't about your characters abilities. It's about the players ability.

9/08/09 11:10:05 PM#8
Originally posted by tbox
Originally posted by dhayes68
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

 

  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.    

 

 


 

This is exactly what EVE does. Is it the games fault if players don't figure it out and play the game the way it's designed?

  Nicoli

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/06
Posts: 1308

Nicoli VoldkifTalia VoldkifEVE-Online

9/09/09 12:29:44 AM#9
Originally posted by tbox 
   
Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   
In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.
 

 

Those Fights happen a lot more often then you give credit for. Problem is those fight recieve very little attention because of the participants involved. I don't go running to the forums every time I have a fair fight or close fight to start a rant because I maybe lost a ship in the mess. Those that do lose thier ship to a gank have a much higher chance to talk or complaign about it on a public forum. To top it off it is usually the newer players that are the ones getting ganked the most which acentuates the crys of EVE being a newbie gankfest.

And any 0.0 kill in hostile territory whether its 15 v 1 or 2 v 2 is not pointless, its is the nessicary part of war. Wars where most of the ships are lost are not some Honor duel where your trying to puff out your chest and show off your pvp rating. Your there to inflict damage on your enemy be it the be it the desire to cause the destruction of an entity or to fend off someone trying to take your assets.

Of course to use a line from "The Dark Knight," Some people just want to watch the world burn. And with those people in eve you have 2 choices: burn to death, or Get your crew together and fight back, either way your pick.

  User Deleted
9/09/09 12:33:33 AM#10
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

Can i haz yer stuffs?

  kattehus

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 374

"Life is just a test - a test to see if you can survive death." - Myself.

9/09/09 12:37:43 AM#11
Originally posted by tbox
   
Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   
In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

 

As said before, a lot of these fights happen. I regularily hear about 10 to 20 fights, where the 10 guys win. Not because their ships were bigger or their gear were better, but because they, themselves, were better.

In 0.0 this happens more than you'd think, even though you usually hear 0.0 being a blobfest.

Also, pirating is all about finding the right opponent. And, again, I often hear about people who win against BCs and below, while they're flying frigates.


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  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5628

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

9/09/09 12:54:52 AM#12

But the OP is right. Eve is about Gank and zerg. For this, I have little respect for Eve's PvP. I wouldn't even call it PvP - It's a jungle. Only improvement in sight is the alliance tournament thingy. Which seems nice, i think. Atleast they try. To say that Eve would beat "shallower" (haha) games like Guild Wars or WAR in regards of exciting PvP is clear fanboi-talk and should be dismissed as such -> utter nonsense.

Fact is, no matter what you have at stake, PvP is at its best when the opposing sides are equal or nearly equal and they both stay and fight.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  PatchDay

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 1645

9/09/09 2:02:10 AM#13
Originally posted by Quirhid

But the OP is right. Eve is about Gank and zerg. For this, I have little respect for Eve's PvP. I wouldn't even call it PvP - It's a jungle. Only improvement in sight is the alliance tournament thingy. Which seems nice, i think. Atleast they try. To say that Eve would beat "shallower" (haha) games like Guild Wars or WAR in regards of exciting PvP is clear fanboi-talk and should be dismissed as such -> utter nonsense.

Fact is, no matter what you have at stake, PvP is at its best when the opposing sides are equal or nearly equal and they both stay and fight.

 

You have no idea how wars are fought then. What you refer to is a 'sports' game where both sides have equal numbers. Or something like Boxing, Basketball, UFC, blah blah. All 'fair'

WAR--- there is no 'fair'. You bring superior force. If you bring less numbers then you hit-and-run. Kill what u can and blaze

 

  PatchDay

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 1645

9/09/09 2:09:36 AM#14
Originally posted by tbox
Originally posted by dhayes68
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

 

   
Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   
In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.
 
I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing. 
 

 

 

 

ugh what are you talking bout? When I go into enemy terriority with my comrades and we killa  helpless Orca I take pleasure in knowing I've helped deal my enemy a terrible blow. So what if the Orca pilot cant defend himself? Perhaps in his holds he has precious rocks in which his friends can build ships and such for our enemies.

So hulks, orca, and haulers I special pleasure in killing. Because they can do more potential harm to me than any Vagabond can. A vaga I can handle. But minerals going towards the construction of capital ships that just cannot be allowed to get to enemy hands free of risk

  User Deleted
9/09/09 2:11:58 AM#15

The pvp in eve is great because it matters.

Things like "arena combat" are nothing more than sparring matches for bragging rights.  In "play fights" like that people strive for evenly matched opponents to test their skill.

 

In eve you are fighting for your very LIFE in the game.  As in real life, if you find yourself in a "fair fight" then someone really screwed up when they were planning the battle.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but I know military commanders prefer to enter battle with something like 10:1 advantage.  The point is to win with as few losses as possible.  To utterly destroy your foe.

Eve is about long term goals... a big loss might represent months or even years worth of work and planning.  So you better believe intelligence gathering and tactics matter a hell of a lot.

To be quite honest, since I've played eve I've never been able to see the point in PvP that doesn't have consequences or require the same level of situational awareness.  From my point of view eve doesn't just have the BEST PvP in any game.. it has the ONLY PvP in any game. 

We are all entitled to our opinions, and it is probably a good thing that we don't all enjoy the same things.

 

  comerb

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 955

9/09/09 2:15:14 AM#16
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

I don't think you quite understand what EVE is about.

  PatchDay

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 1645

9/09/09 2:19:04 AM#17
Originally posted by comerb
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

I think think you quite understand what EVE is about.

 

Nice troll, I see what you did there

Short and brief post that lacked content so you can mask how little you know about EVE in general.

 

  sdeleon515

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 125

9/09/09 2:33:04 AM#18
Originally posted by Horusra

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

 

To OP:

Are you seriously that mentally retarded or simply bitter being on the losing side far too often. The basic principle of ALL PvP system when it comes to winning is emphasizing your advantages over you opponents disadvantages your moron! PvP is inherently unfair in nature and even if you want to be so stupidly idealistic and say "PvP is supposed to be fair and equal" then that would also require that individuals would be judged beyond game dynamics in areas such as reaction time, judgement, overall game experience and familiarity and we can even throw in game equipment because if you ever played any mmorpg with a crappy PC and connection, expect lag to be your biggest foe.

There is simply no fairness in PvP and for anyone who claims there should be try a FPS like Halo or Resistance 2 for a more realistic example. Both sides can have equal numbers and sizes and nearly identical weapons but that doesn't always result in nearly identical match results; in fact identical results are rarer than one side simply wreaking carnage on the other.

So if you want to spew out the "pvp needs to be fair" then its not really PvP is it and any attempt to really make it fair even in game context can't account for the dynamics beyond the game that involve the player and their tools and no game or developer can really address that now can they.

  Death1942

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2596

9/09/09 2:37:48 AM#19
Originally posted by Kyleran

EVE isn't about fair fights, its about winning and losing.

We can see what side you were on.

 

 

doing your avatar justice

 

CATFIGHT IS ON!!!!

 

 

on a serious note even when i was getting ganked the fights were still interesting and fun.

MMO wish list:

-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  PatchDay

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 1645

9/09/09 2:40:28 AM#20
Originally posted by Quirhid

 

Playing: EvE
Played: GW, Vanguard, WAR, PotBS, AoC, Atlantica Online
Tried: Auto Assault, CoV, FoM, Planetside, DDO, Lineage 2, Anarchy Online, Tabula Rasa
Liked: GW, DDO, AoC

 

 

Hm, dont you think this is a little ironic? You proclaim that WAR and GW are so awesome yet you left them behind to play EVE? Don't worry I'm pretty sure EVE Online outgrosses both of those anyway. I'm sure some hater will go dig up some charts or something so gonna go pop some popcorn and check thread tomorrows

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