If a game sells 700k copies in its first month, and by the third month is down to 300K subscribers that is fail. No other way to spin it. Successful MMOs gain subscribers. Failures don't.

You EQ2/WAR/AOC fanbois just refuse to believe you're playing an inferior product. That is fine. I'm sure there are a few people who think Domino's is just great.

Originally posted by CyanSword

It's definitely used far too often. Some good, fun games are being discarded as 'failures' by trolls when they actually represent a fun experience if you like the gameplay (AoC, WAR, LOTRO are all labelled failures here but are fun diversions, with their faults sure, but they are all good games if they are your thing). Hell, I have seen people call Champions Online a 'failure' here, after just a few days, thats crazy! Sure its not perfect, I have my own gripes about it, but a 'failure'? That's just insane.

 Well that's because AoC and WAR were failures, specifically WAR. But that one has some backing if you look at initial sales estimates and if you look at a month by month subscriber estimate. The sub numbers plummeted so quickly and are now decently low, and when you look at the sales numbers it looks really bad.

I haven't heard many people seriously say LotRO is a failure, since it's supposedly 2-3rd depending on the estimate or whether it is money made/monthly subscribers.

As for Champions, yes that's kind of what I think inspired this post to begin with. When people try a new game and like it they call it a failure. But in this case the numbers aren't very impressive. Given that success or failure should probably go along with money made though it is tough to say, would depend on how much it cost them to make and if the numbers grow/shrink or remain fairly stable. Yes Champions is the best example of people using fail to quickly and too often.

Yes it is used way to much its insane. But of course every game will be a fail in the eyes of the WoW players. All they think about is subs and really IMO subs don't decide if a game failed or not.  Heck In my world WoW doesn't even exist anymore so any game that has like 300k subs to me is a success.

Originally posted by brostyn

If a game sells 700k copies in its first month, and by the third month is down to 300K subscribers that is fail. No other way to spin it. Successful MMOs gain subscribers. Failures don't.

You EQ2/WAR/AOC fanbois just refuse to believe you're playing an inferior product. That is fine. I'm sure there are a few people who think Domino's is just great.

Failure is a game that sinks. If it stays a float and draws in revenue then its not fail.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

I haven't heard many people seriously say LotRO is a failure, since it's supposedly 2-3rd depending on the estimate or whether it is money made/monthly subscribers.

By the same token though they should see it as a failure, it didn't sell anywhere near as many as AOC or WAR for example (not even close) so while it may have the same level of subscribers as those now it just avoided a big fall off to get there.

So if a game has 100-150k subs (which is probably where all three of those games are at) but one never had more than that, and the other had more and lost them are they both failures or is just the one that fell a 'failure'? i.e. is the decision on whether you consider a game a 'failure' or not purely based on sub numbers or is it the history of the product?

Right now there are probably six or seven major MMOs in the 100-150k region in the west - EQ, EQ2, AOC, WAR, LOTRO, FFXI, (maybe Lineage 2 as well?) and now maybe Champions Online. So are they all failures because they are in that range?

Can't an MMO be in that range and be seen as a decent game. Sure they all 'failed' to challenge the behemoth that is WoW, but it doesnt mean they should be branded 'failures' in total. They all probably make nice profits for their makers (in the long term at least).

Originally posted by aleos

Originally posted by brostyn

If a game sells 700k copies in its first month, and by the third month is down to 300K subscribers that is fail. No other way to spin it. Successful MMOs gain subscribers. Failures don't.

You EQ2/WAR/AOC fanbois just refuse to believe you're playing an inferior product. That is fine. I'm sure there are a few people who think Domino's is just great.

 

Failure is a game that sinks. If it stays a float and draws in revenue then its not fail.

I don't agree. If one gets an F at school it means you failed to comprehend and apply that lesson. It doesn't mean you're kicked out of school.

Fail not only means to stop operating. Look it up.

In fact, I did it for you.

# fail to do something; leave something undone; "She failed to notice that her child was no longer in his crib"; "The secretary failed to call the ...
# be unsuccessful; "Where do today's public schools fail?"; "The attempt to rescue the hostages failed miserably"
# disappoint, prove undependable to; abandon, forsake; "His sense of smell failed him this time"; "His strength finally failed him"; "His children failed him in the crisis"
# stop operating or functioning; "The engine finally went"; "The car died on the road"; "The bus we travelled in broke down on the way to town"; "The coffee maker broke"; "The engine failed on the way to town"; "her eyesight went after the accident"
# be unable; "I fail to understand your motives"
# judge unacceptable; "The teacher failed six students"
# fail to get a passing grade; "She studied hard but failed nevertheless"; "Did I fail the test?"
# fall short in what is expected; "She failed in her obligations as a good daughter-in-law"; "We must not fail his obligation to the victims of the Holocaust"
# become bankrupt or insolvent; fail financially and close; "The toy company went bankrupt after the competition hired cheap Mexican labor"; "A number of banks failed that year"
# prove insufficient; "The water supply for the town failed after a long drought"
# get worse; "Her health is declining"

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by aleos

Originally posted by brostyn

If a game sells 700k copies in its first month, and by the third month is down to 300K subscribers that is fail. No other way to spin it. Successful MMOs gain subscribers. Failures don't.

You EQ2/WAR/AOC fanbois just refuse to believe you're playing an inferior product. That is fine. I'm sure there are a few people who think Domino's is just great.

 

Failure is a game that sinks. If it stays a float and draws in revenue then its not fail.

I don't agree. If one gets an F at school it means you failed to comprehend and apply that lesson. It doesn't mean you're kicked out of school.

 

Fail not only means to stop operating. Look it up.

 

In fact, I did it for you.

 

# fail to do something; leave something undone; "She failed to notice that her child was no longer in his crib"; "The secretary failed to call the ...
# be unsuccessful; "Where do today's public schools fail?"; "The attempt to rescue the hostages failed miserably"
# disappoint, prove undependable to; abandon, forsake; "His sense of smell failed him this time"; "His strength finally failed him"; "His children failed him in the crisis"
# stop operating or functioning; "The engine finally went"; "The car died on the road"; "The bus we travelled in broke down on the way to town"; "The coffee maker broke"; "The engine failed on the way to town"; "her eyesight went after the accident"
# be unable; "I fail to understand your motives"
# judge unacceptable; "The teacher failed six students"
# fail to get a passing grade; "She studied hard but failed nevertheless"; "Did I fail the test?"
# fall short in what is expected; "She failed in her obligations as a good daughter-in-law"; "We must not fail his obligation to the victims of the Holocaust"
# become bankrupt or insolvent; fail financially and close; "The toy company went bankrupt after the competition hired cheap Mexican labor"; "A number of banks failed that year"
# prove insufficient; "The water supply for the town failed after a long drought"
# get worse; "Her health is declining"

I can't agree with EQ2 being a failure. I think the game was good its been operating longer than AOC and WAR going 5 years and had tons of expansions I am quite sure its been profitable. Now WAR on the other hand sniff I can't argue and man I am a huge DAOC fanboy so it hurts to say it but saying it heals me :)

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by aleos

Originally posted by brostyn

If a game sells 700k copies in its first month, and by the third month is down to 300K subscribers that is fail. No other way to spin it. Successful MMOs gain subscribers. Failures don't.

You EQ2/WAR/AOC fanbois just refuse to believe you're playing an inferior product. That is fine. I'm sure there are a few people who think Domino's is just great.

 

Failure is a game that sinks. If it stays a float and draws in revenue then its not fail.

I don't agree. If one gets an F at school it means you failed to comprehend and apply that lesson. It doesn't mean you're kicked out of school.

 

Fail not only means to stop operating. Look it up.

 

In fact, I did it for you.

 

# fail to do something; leave something undone; "She failed to notice that her child was no longer in his crib"; "The secretary failed to call the ...
# be unsuccessful; "Where do today's public schools fail?"; "The attempt to rescue the hostages failed miserably"
# disappoint, prove undependable to; abandon, forsake; "His sense of smell failed him this time"; "His strength finally failed him"; "His children failed him in the crisis"
# stop operating or functioning; "The engine finally went"; "The car died on the road"; "The bus we travelled in broke down on the way to town"; "The coffee maker broke"; "The engine failed on the way to town"; "her eyesight went after the accident"
# be unable; "I fail to understand your motives"
# judge unacceptable; "The teacher failed six students"
# fail to get a passing grade; "She studied hard but failed nevertheless"; "Did I fail the test?"
# fall short in what is expected; "She failed in her obligations as a good daughter-in-law"; "We must not fail his obligation to the victims of the Holocaust"
# become bankrupt or insolvent; fail financially and close; "The toy company went bankrupt after the competition hired cheap Mexican labor"; "A number of banks failed that year"
# prove insufficient; "The water supply for the town failed after a long drought"
# get worse; "Her health is declining"

These are MMOs we are talking about not test scores in a classroom. The common goal of these games is to generate money not get 10million subscribers even though it would be a bonus the common goal is to get paid. They don't care what your opinion is if you havnt noticed lately. And your definition of fail and the fails provided by your literal terms contradict one another so...

Originally posted by tyorke

Oh god too many topic about what game failed or is falling or is gonna fail.

with all of this game cooming out... people will change game so fast that i think they are not gonna make any mmorpgs ever
i know there are game that are not good, or u could not like but that's

i dont want even talk about that 
I just want to know how many people think it is correct to use the word fail
 

"Fail" is a term the wow'bies use. right along with WoW killer. These people think that an MMO has to have millions of subs or its a fail.Thats not the case. If they can make a profit its a sucess, a little secret some companies can turn a profit on 50k subs, or less. Yes its overused but  I guess thats to be expected since where its coming from.

Definately yes, "this game fails at this" and blaablaa, seen it all and don't really even bother to read any more text when "fail" comes up..

Wait.. a game sells 700,000 copies on it's opening month and after three months it has 300,000 subscribers and that constitutes failure?

Considering the average monthly subscription fee is roughly 12 dollars a month.. That's 3.6 million in revenue a month. I'd hardly call that a failure.  That isn't to say the game is living up to it's full potential but it still functions as profitable.  Now perhaps to you, it has FAILED to live up to you expectation on what YOU believe that success is, and your OPINION can be that it has failed, but that's just your OPINION and really, truely, only means dick.

However by your reasoning then 3.6 million a month equates to failure.
It is highly unlikely that you, yourself gross 3.6 million dollars a month.
Therefore you sir, are "Fail".

I think that in more cases than not, the term failed describes the players wishes rather than the conclusion after some sort of analysis of the game. "The game dissapointed me, then it must be fail"

 Example below

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Originally posted by Barteaux

I think that in more cases than not, the term failed describes the players wishes rather than the conclusion after some sort of analysis of the game. "The game dissapointed me, then it must be fail"

 

I would say the word " Fail " and Funcom have alot in common.

Jihad works both ways

I guess truly the only way that a game could fail would be if the company or companies involved somehow lost money from it. I've been starting to think the gaming companies dont really care about what we think of the games as long as they are able to get some profit and line their pockets than in their eyes they didnt fail.

fail is an excelent word.

the cheapest way to communicate something without having to waste time and effort, even more since it reforces the notion that a certain subject is not even worth of any more words than that.

Just type "fail" and its all over, dont need to explain, dont need to apologize, doesnt matter what is said next, the whole meaning behind it gets alive and keeps going by itself. Very powerfull word, strong enough to work as killing blow to any doubtfull reader.

Common Sense + Mass Media + Usage and Notion of the word "fail" = EFFECT

Why does it bother you?

Originally posted by Interesting

fail is an excelent word.

 

the cheapest way to communicate something without having to waste time and effort, even more since it reforces the notion that a certain subject is not even worth of any more words than that.

 

Just type "fail" and its all over, dont need to explain, dont need to apologize, doesnt matter what is said next, the whole meaning behind it gets alive and keeps going by itself. Very powerfull word, strong enough to work as killing blow to any doubtfull reader.

 

Common Sense + Mass Media + Usage and Notion of the word "fail" = EFFECT

 

Why does it bother you?

Following this line of reasoning, I wonder how long it will be before we devolve to the point of simply making a series of grunts and gestures to eachother in place of verbal and written communication.

The word "fail" is rarely used in a grammatically correct fashion or proper context anymore.

"Fail" is not a quality of something; it is an action.  Things cannot "be" fail.

Failure implies an intended objective that was not met.  It is not a way of describing something that you find disagreeable or foolish.

MMOs do not "fail".  If a subscription MMO company had a goal, it would be to turn a profit.  Every MMO is discontinued before it gets to the point where it can no longer generate profits.  Therefore the objective is met, regardless.  Rather than "fail" or "succeed", there are varying degrees of success MMOs can achieve.  They can be more relatively more successful and profitable, or relatively less.

If you intend to communicate using the English language, please attempt to do so properly.  Thank you.