Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 

I came hoping that it would offer some new gameplay experience.  How is this game better than AoC or War?  It's admittedly got many of the same MMO features, with less innovation than either of those two titles offered.  Less bugs?  Is that what they're pinning their hopes on?

Do you want to see a list of failed games that have 'established mechanics'?  It's pretty damned long.  Don't compare it to WoW, because WoW did innovate.  WoW gave players levels of polish and satisfaction that the industry did not provide.  As someone who has been playing MMO's for 13 years, tell me why I should play this game?  What is supposed to catch my eye?  Flight?  Done before. Chain attacks?  Done before.  Kill 10 guys questing?  Done before?  Where's the hook?   How does a potential new player log into this game and not think "Well, I've done this before."?

It's not that I don't like MMO's, but I don't want to do the same thing in this game that I've done in 10 other games.  I want interesting combat, I want reasons to socialize with other players, I want to discover quests and artificats, instead of being lead around a ring like a pony at the circus.

 

Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

:-\

So, let's release a bunch of iffy innovative games, and then we can get a good polished one in a few years built on their backs?

Y'know, with polish.

When did expecting crap become acceptable?

Since when did polished become crap?

I play MMO's because they're fun, interesting AND polished.  Just because it's not innovative, doesn't mean it's crap.  Well.. maybe to you, but not to everyone.

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by JonMichael

:-\

So, let's release a bunch of iffy innovative games, and then we can get a good polished one in a few years built on their backs?

Y'know, with polish.

When did expecting crap become acceptable?

That's what the OP and I want to know?  It's just that in Aion the crap is the design document, rather than the implementation.  There are millions of people who read and enjoy romance novels.  That's the way the Aion fans in this thread are presenting themselves.  There's nothing wrong with it, but don't tell me not to look for the next 'Moby Dick' because you've got a perfectly good copy of 'The Passions of Summer' for sale.

Originally posted by AKABoondock

I don't believe that anyone on these forums or even NCSoft themselves have called Aion "Innovative" (other than char customization, which it is), so why is so important for you to tell us it isnt?. I would like to hear what you suggest for MMO-gamers to play instead. Yes, Aion is the same kind of MMO we have seen over and over. But you know what? Some people are actually INTO those games! I myself cant wait for Sep 20.

Not just from this post, but your many others it's clear you're a fan of Aion and you like it, but the tables can easily be turned and it's easy to question just why you would feel the need to post to the contrary... But wait!

These are forums, where people express their opinions and share their views with others.

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

You might need an innovative game to make an MMO interesting to you, not to me.

I don't think AION is full of innovative, new ideas... but I find it extremely interesting and a lot of fun to play.

And BTW- you get your wings at 10, not 25. ;)

 I'd love to see some innovation, but I expected it more from the likes of Fallen Earth or maybe even Champions, this time around.  That's why I tried them first.  Not only did they both lack any significant innovation, they just felt poorly strung together and half finished.  In the end, as badly as I want to see innovation, Aion's the only one I might actually stick with past the 'open' beta.

I never expected it to be innovative, but I was hoping the combat system would be a little more fun.  Maybe at higher level, with more active skills and less auto-attack?  I'm also curious about the sort of customization it has, because at lv.10, it looks like 8 cookie-cutter classes to me, and I was hoping for a least a little bit of skill tree type choices or something.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Obviously some people here are either burned out on MMOs or don't like MMOs anyway. Which begs the question why do they even post here?

If you came into Aion with expectations that it would be "innovative" and not use the mechanics established and proven successful in other games, then the problem is yours, not Aion's.

Aion is what it said it would be: an MMO with some unique features but with the basic framework of a standard MMO. If I owned an MMO company this is the exact route I would take if I *wanted to make money*. The same gamers who clamor for something completely new/innovative in an MMO are the same people who would not put their money down on such an MMO because it's too different from other successful MMOs.

Not at all.  I'm very much looking forward to Fallen Earth going live.  I enjoy EVE from time to time.  And I definitely miss my SWG days.  Also sorry that POTBS had to die the death of stagnation.  Coming up, I'm keeping an eye on SWTOR (who isn't), Star Trek Online, and Infinity : The Quest for Earth.  But thanks for your attempt at a diagnosis, doctor. I am not diagnosing--I'm just making an observation based on what you wrote. Nothing that you said here changes my observation.  Your observation is not correct.  I didn't change your OPINION.  Your opinion is not relevant.  Moving on. You are looking for something that Aion never promised.  True, but I'm not blaming it for that.

I didn't come with any expectations at all.  You did. You came expecting some innovative and different.  I didn't.  You need to get your crystal ball checked, Madam Mamushka.  Hoping, perhaps.  Expecting, no.   I came due to boredom.  Exactly. You wanted to relieve that boredom. You expected Aion to do that for you, but when you saw that it had very few "innovative" features built on top of the same old proven MMO mechanics, you continued to be bored.  I believe I said that. This is what I found.  I wrote it down.

That isn't the route I'd take if I wanted to make money if only because a relatively small fraction of such ventures have been successful in any significant degree, most from a winner IP boost.  I played LOTRO, I kinda liked LOTRO, but same problem.  It's still going because it's LOTRO, not Generic Fantasy Kingdom Online. Thank goodness you don't run an MMO company.  More of a pity really.

And hey, I pretty much only put my money down on those different MMOs. Good for you. You are a minority, and companies that make MMO know that you are minority.  Obviously not if those games are being made.  Or, perhaps, a minorty large enough to still consider making a game for, so the argument's still pointless.  So, if you've got any more false assumptions to lay out, by all means. I made no false assumptions. Actually, you did, but it doesn't really matter now because Aion is not the game for you it seems.  No, I didn't, but you did an excellent job of trying to speak for me.  Let's try this: I'll say what I'm saying, and you say what YOU'RE saying.  If you are incapable of getting your own message across, try not to make it seem like it's coming from my mouth.

 

Colors are fun.

Originally posted by Vhaln

 I'd love to see some innovation, but I expected it more from the likes of Fallen Earth or maybe even Champions, this time around.  That's why I tried them first.  Not only did they both lack any significant innovation, they just felt poorly strung together and half finished.  In the end, as badly as I want to see innovation, Aion's the only one I might actually stick with past the 'open' beta.

I never expected it to be innovative, but I was hoping the combat system would be a little more fun.  Maybe at higher level, with more active skills and less auto-attack?  I'm also curious about the sort of customization it has, because at lv.10, it looks like 8 cookie-cutter classes to me, and I was hoping for a least a little bit of skill tree type choices or something.

Now, see, an FPS-based combat system WITH the flight.  It would probably be challenging as hell, but FUN.

And I kinda liked Fallen Earth.  Perfect, no, but I think it's got potential.

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

You mean wings at level 10, well actually I think you can get it at level 9 in CB.  I haven't got to play OBT to 10 yet since my friends are all hogging it in rotation.... bastards...

I don't know, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Some people simply does not play for the wow moment.  No mmorpg have ever wow'ed me since the first one I've played and that was before the 3D games exist some 15+ years ago.

I simply choose games that seem to be able to offer long term entertainment based on my preferences in a game.  I find those wow moments might sometimes happen from time to time, but those only last long as it take to say the word "wow".  Well, I suppose you can say that I am good at entertaining myself, which usually require some imgaination and attention to details.

Waiting to be entertained is extremely boring IMO.

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

 

You might need an innovative game to make an MMO interesting to you, not to me.

I don't think AION is full of innovative, new ideas... but I find it extremely interesting and a lot of fun to play.

And BTW- you get your wings at 10, not 25. ;)

Just a quick point, if this is you, I don't understand why you're here?

This was quite clearly not here to change your mind.

And you're not going to change mine....

So, really, why?

Originally posted by USFPutty

And I kinda liked Fallen Earth.  Perfect, no, but I think it's got potential.

Potential, definitely.  Maybe I'll give it a second look in 6-12 months or so.

This thread essentially comes down to three people who like variety in their desserts and three people who really like Vanilla icecream, very occasionally with some chocolate sprinkles thrown on top.  Everyone is agreeing, but there the vanilla fans can't get why anyone would possibly look for Rocky Road, when they can have vanilla, and the others wondering how people can be content with vanilla ice cream for their entire lives.

Originally posted by Hoobley

Originally posted by AKABoondock

I don't believe that anyone on these forums or even NCSoft themselves have called Aion "Innovative" (other than char customization, which it is), so why is so important for you to tell us it isnt?. I would like to hear what you suggest for MMO-gamers to play instead. Yes, Aion is the same kind of MMO we have seen over and over. But you know what? Some people are actually INTO those games! I myself cant wait for Sep 20.

 

Not just from this post, but your many others it's clear you're a fan of Aion and you like it, but the tables can easily be turned and it's easy to question just why you would feel the need to post to the contrary... But wait!

 

These are forums, where people express their opinions and share their views with others.

Well put, and thanks.

Reason for post:  People who did NOT read NCSoft PR materials on this game.  I certainly didn't.   A friend said it was kinda cool.  I tried it out.  This is what I found.

Really, it's not a request for comment or validation.  It's one of those two-arrow roadsigns, one pointing to, another away, and the reasons one might make those choices.  Quite frankly, what people think about THAT doesn't interest me in the slightest, aside from the general anthropological ramifications.

Originally posted by grimfall

This thread essentially comes down to three people who like variety in their desserts and three people who really like Vanilla icecream, very occasionally with some chocolate sprinkles thrown on top.  Everyone is agreeing, but there the vanilla fans can't get why anyone would possibly look for Rocky Road, when they can have vanilla, and the others wondering how people can be content with vanilla ice cream for their entire lives.

:-D  Perfect.

The thread sorta became that, yes.

In the beginning, it was a sign saying "This game for vanilla fans" - Signed, RockyRoadEnthusiast

I'm not quite sure why it had to be anything more than that, but it's interesting to watch. :-)

Originally posted by USFPutty

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by grimfall

 Those games did not fail because they had established mechanics.  They failed due to incompetent developers, money hungry CEO's, releasing before they're ready and generally poorly made, full of bugs and suffer from a lack of truthful communication from the company that runs it.

By looking at what MMO's ARE successful, it's not necessarily the ones that are innovative... it's the ones that are stable, polished, create a fun, interesting environment and are run by competent companies.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  Taking WoW for example, is it headed by a money hungry CEO?  Is there a wealth of communication flowing from Blizzard?

You almost got it right at the end - you just weren't able to link 'innovative' with 'interesting'.  Innovation makes interest.  There's nothing terribly interesting about Aion.  When you play, where's the 'Wow!' moment?  When you get wings at level 25?

 

You might need an innovative game to make an MMO interesting to you, not to me.

I don't think AION is full of innovative, new ideas... but I find it extremely interesting and a lot of fun to play.

And BTW- you get your wings at 10, not 25. ;)

Just a quick point, if this is you, I don't understand why you're here?

This was quite clearly not here to change your mind.

And you're not going to change mine....

So, really, why?

Because I happen to like AION and this is the AION forum.

The real question is: Why are YOU here?  AION is obviously not for you as you have stated.

So, really, why?

WoW is pretty much the same thing as older mmo's with it's "twist" on things, and thats is insanely popular. wow really does nothing you cant get in another mmo. nothing REALLY special so i dont see your point.

aion isnt super-innovative but it does what it does really well. and as i have said 1000 times. i think theres a big market for people that want more pvp than pve/raiding and hopefully aion will manage to get these players. cuz lets face it, there havent been alot of good pvp mmo's lately so this is a chance to get a part of the mmo market there hasnt really been a good game for in a while. hopefully theres enough pvpjunkes out there like myself to make it work

Originally posted by sceeZ

WoW is pretty much the same thing as older mmo's with it's "twist" on things, and thats is insanely popular. wow really does nothing you cant get in another mmo. nothing REALLY special so i dont see your point.

aion isnt super-innovative but it does what it does really well. and as i have said 1000 times. i think theres a big market for people that want more pvp than pve/raiding and hopefully aion will manage to get these players. cuz lets face it, there havent been alot of good pvp mmo's lately so this is a chance to get a part of the mmo market there hasnt really been a good game for in a while. hopefully theres enough pvpjunkes out there like myself to make it work

Wow is self-admitted rip of off EQ.

1. Different art style

2. Which enabled lower system specs

3. Much faster leveling curve - on release probably 5 times as fast

4. Tons of quests that fed into #3 above

5. Higher satisfaction in crafting where you didn't have fails, could generally get the components yourself and you could use the gear you crafted (rather than selling to lower level characters)

6. PVP battlegrounds which gave you PVP points to earn gear

#3,4 and 5 were the really big elements, though.

Originally posted by grimfall

This thread essentially comes down to three people who like variety in their desserts and three people who really like Vanilla icecream, very occasionally with some chocolate sprinkles thrown on top.  Everyone is agreeing, but there the vanilla fans can't get why anyone would possibly look for Rocky Road, when they can have vanilla, and the others wondering how people can be content with vanilla ice cream for their entire lives.

I read all the posts and.... this wins.

Originally posted by vive

Originally posted by grimfall

This thread essentially comes down to three people who like variety in their desserts and three people who really like Vanilla icecream, very occasionally with some chocolate sprinkles thrown on top.  Everyone is agreeing, but there the vanilla fans can't get why anyone would possibly look for Rocky Road, when they can have vanilla, and the others wondering how people can be content with vanilla ice cream for their entire lives.

 

I read all the posts and.... this wins.

+1

I am a rocky road enthusiast, and like to hear from other rocky road enthusiasts what they think about the game because the vanilla enthusiasts probably can't evaluate the game from the same perspective as my buddy rocky road can.

Why do fanboys have to flame?

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by USFPutty

Just a quick point, if this is you, I don't understand why you're here?

This was quite clearly not here to change your mind.

And you're not going to change mine....

So, really, why?

 

Because I happen to like AION and this is the AION forum.

The real question is: Why are YOU here?  AION is obviously not for you as you have stated.

So, really, why?

 

Yes, it's the Aion forum, for comments about Aion, good or bad.  Not a forum for sucking Aion off.  They don't need that kind of validation.  Just the kind involving credit cards.

I'm here to state my opinion of the game.  People reading will identify with it or not, agree or not, act on it or not.

People who bitch about what I think, though?  Hi-larious.

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by sceeZ

WoW is pretty much the same thing as older mmo's with it's "twist" on things, and thats is insanely popular. wow really does nothing you cant get in another mmo. nothing REALLY special so i dont see your point.

aion isnt super-innovative but it does what it does really well. and as i have said 1000 times. i think theres a big market for people that want more pvp than pve/raiding and hopefully aion will manage to get these players. cuz lets face it, there havent been alot of good pvp mmo's lately so this is a chance to get a part of the mmo market there hasnt really been a good game for in a while. hopefully theres enough pvpjunkes out there like myself to make it work

 

Wow is self-admitted rip of off EQ.

1. Different art style

2. Which enabled lower system specs

3. Much faster leveling curve - on release probably 5 times as fast

4. Tons of quests that fed into #3 above

5. Higher satisfaction in crafting where you didn't have fails, could generally get the components yourself and you could use the gear you crafted (rather than selling to lower level characters)

6. PVP battlegrounds which gave you PVP points to earn gear

 

#3,4 and 5 were the really big elements, though.

Which is pretty much why they're called 'WoW clones' now and not 'EverQuest clones'.

I've said it before, they achieved a total formulaic victory.  My dislike for the game aside, they took the right pieces in the right amounts, fitted them together the right way, and forged a winner.  It might even be said they perfected their particular sub-genre.

If that's the case, continuing to 'perfect' this formula is a waste of time; no effort is likely to produce the "critical success" result WoW managed and still look like anything but a blatant copy.

More to the point, would you want to play it?  What incentive is there for a WoW veteran with all the lewts in the world (of warcraft) to leave his lofty perch and delve into...the same game?  Just to do it all over again?  Really?  Like, I sort of GET the folks who play, cap out, putter around a bit, then hibernate until the next expansion comes out (which they CHARGE you for, you SUCKERS oh my god) to move up to the next increment of 10.

I've seen a lot of talk about something coming out to become the 'WoW-killer'.  I don't know that any such animal shall ever be born.

Except, perhaps, WoW 2.