if your worried about Trooper vs Jedi i only have 2 things to say. One was mention in hero vs hero (obi wan vs Boba/Jengo Fett)

The other is level.

If a experience (read lvl 20) Trooper were to face a novice (read lvl 5) Jedi who do you think would win?

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"They pulled a joke on Saturday, announcing a big reveal then flashing up "Darth Binks" to stunned silence and a smattering of laughter. "I think we failed on humor," said Bioware Producer, Jake Neri. "Wait, what did you think?" asked Lucas Arts Public Relations Manager, Adam Kahn. Well, I was laughing so hard, I forgot to take a picture of the "reveal." Darth Binks was not shown again on Sunday, but from my reaction and the bits of laughter they had heard from the crowd, they thought the joke a success. Yes, with this many dedicated Star Wars fans, canon humor is a little tough."

I don't think that canon humor is tough at all. There was a time that I would have laughed at such a thing. Considering what MMO game companies do today that makes most people say or think "WTF" and that Bioware is known for not revealing much if any information about their games, it doesn't surprise me at all that the vast majority of that audience was silent. They thought it was a serious revel and obviously didn't approve.

If Bioware maintains to skimp on information releases (which is their modus operandi), giving a good feel for what is actual information, then they should probably back off trying such humor. By such humor I mean grabbing polarizing figures such as Jar Jar and making such a joke. I doubt much of the audience for this game likes Jar Jar, which would give base to the reaction they experienced.

Keen observation Khal, and it shows exactly the fact that BioWare/LEC don't really know their audience. I mean C'mon, this was PAX. It's a Con. It's a place for hard cores to gather. These are the people who know about the NGE have seen these kind of blunders in other MMOs that would make them believe that maybe yes, perhaps LEC/BioWare have actually put a Gungan Sith Lord in the game because frankly, stuff like this doesn't surprise people anymore (SWG Cupid Ewoks anyone?). They don't TRUST LucasArts. For LEC not to be sensitive to that is not really surprising, but shows bad judgement on their part.

True enough, the average SW fan (non-Con going, Cosplay wearing) might think this is funny, as they are perhaps a bit more trusting of the IP holder.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"They pulled a joke on Saturday, announcing a big reveal then flashing up "Darth Binks" to stunned silence and a smattering of laughter. "I think we failed on humor," said Bioware Producer, Jake Neri. "Wait, what did you think?" asked Lucas Arts Public Relations Manager, Adam Kahn. Well, I was laughing so hard, I forgot to take a picture of the "reveal." Darth Binks was not shown again on Sunday, but from my reaction and the bits of laughter they had heard from the crowd, they thought the joke a success. Yes, with this many dedicated Star Wars fans, canon humor is a little tough."

I don't think that canon humor is tough at all. There was a time that I would have laughed at such a thing. Considering what MMO game companies do today that makes most people say or think "WTF" and that Bioware is known for not revealing much if any information about their games, it doesn't surprise me at all that the vast majority of that audience was silent. They thought it was a serious revel and obviously didn't approve.

If Bioware maintains to skimp on information releases (which is their modus operandi), giving a good feel for what is actual information, then they should probably back off trying such humor. By such humor I mean grabbing polarizing figures such as Jar Jar and making such a joke. I doubt much of the audience for this game likes Jar Jar, which would give base to the reaction they experienced.

 

Keen observation Khal, and it shows exactly the fact that BioWare/LEC don't really know their audience. I mean C'mon, this was PAX. It's a Con. It's a place for hard cores to gather. These are the people who know about the NGE have seen these kind of blunders in other MMOs that would make them believe that maybe yes, perhaps LEC/BioWare have actually put a Gungan Sith Lord in the game because frankly, stuff like this doesn't surprise people anymore (SWG Cupid Ewoks anyone?). They don't TRUST LucasArts. For LEC not to be sensitive to that is not really surprising, but shows bad judgement on their part.

True enough, the average SW fan (non-Con going, Cosplay wearing) might think this is funny, as they are perhaps a bit more trusting of the IP holder.

To be fair i TOTALLY want to play Gungan Sith Lord (and a Gorn Federation MEdical Officier in ST:O)

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"They pulled a joke on Saturday, announcing a big reveal then flashing up "Darth Binks" to stunned silence and a smattering of laughter. "I think we failed on humor," said Bioware Producer, Jake Neri. "Wait, what did you think?" asked Lucas Arts Public Relations Manager, Adam Kahn. Well, I was laughing so hard, I forgot to take a picture of the "reveal." Darth Binks was not shown again on Sunday, but from my reaction and the bits of laughter they had heard from the crowd, they thought the joke a success. Yes, with this many dedicated Star Wars fans, canon humor is a little tough."

I don't think that canon humor is tough at all. There was a time that I would have laughed at such a thing. Considering what MMO game companies do today that makes most people say or think "WTF" and that Bioware is known for not revealing much if any information about their games, it doesn't surprise me at all that the vast majority of that audience was silent. They thought it was a serious revel and obviously didn't approve.

If Bioware maintains to skimp on information releases (which is their modus operandi), giving a good feel for what is actual information, then they should probably back off trying such humor. By such humor I mean grabbing polarizing figures such as Jar Jar and making such a joke. I doubt much of the audience for this game likes Jar Jar, which would give base to the reaction they experienced.

 

Keen observation Khal, and it shows exactly the fact that BioWare/LEC don't really know their audience. I mean C'mon, this was PAX. It's a Con. It's a place for hard cores to gather. These are the people who know about the NGE have seen these kind of blunders in other MMOs that would make them believe that maybe yes, perhaps LEC/BioWare have actually put a Gungan Sith Lord in the game because frankly, stuff like this doesn't surprise people anymore (SWG Cupid Ewoks anyone?). They don't TRUST LucasArts. For LEC not to be sensitive to that is not really surprising, but shows bad judgement on their part.

True enough, the average SW fan (non-Con going, Cosplay wearing) might think this is funny, as they are perhaps a bit more trusting of the IP holder.

To be fair i TOTALLY want to play Gungan Sith Lord (and a Gorn Federation MEdical Officier in ST:O)

Off Topic but I can't resist...  - What about Ferenghi Science Officer in ST:O?  :P

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

If you made a game of angels vs demons you wouldn't say "Hey people want to be god and the devil let's let them, oh wait everyone would be god and the devil, let's just balance up the angels and demons to be able to stand toe to toe with god and the devil." Because that would be stupid.

Really should have stuck with the Superman analogy since the devil was actually an angel of God before he believed his power was just as great as Gods.  Then what about guardian angels or warrior angels like Gabriel and Micheal.  They posses the same powers the devil had and he thought he could give God a run for his money so in game balance why couldn't they?  Also the origional demons are the 1/3 of the angels that sided with the devil so they too would have similar powers.  Sorry couldn't resist a little theology today.  I'd try out your angels vs demons MMO.

Some people just need to grow up.

Its a game. I know there are people out there who take the lore of a product far to seriously but calm down.

If an apprentice jedi went against a veteran bounty hunter or smuggler, the advantage will be in the corner of who has the most experience.

The same goes for the jedi. But if both were apprentices in their class, and this goes for sw lore. It could go either way, the jedi doesnt fully understand his or her powers, and well the smuggler ect just needs to keep a distance a shoot really and use their skills and weapons. Anything can happen.

At the end of the day, bioware have spent alot of years working on star wars universe, and who knows when beta comes around things maybe cleared up and fixed so for now we cannot do anything so stop bickering.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

---

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Yes but not one on one, it was huge ratios of probably 50+ to 1. Even 3-4 troopers to 1 Jedi would have no chance of defeating the Jedi. And the problem becomes they want this game to be balanced where every class can stand toe to toe. Really when it's 1 on 1 the only class that has the chance of defeating a Jedi or a Sith is the opposite of one another.

---

The Jedi had no problems taking on 100+ droid troopers and tanks.
The Jedi easily being killed by the clone troopers was a "this is how happened because we say so" moment.
In movies the winner is not decided by who is more powerful the winner is decided by the writer.

 

So lore is quite useless as an argument as to why Jedi and Bounty Hunters should not be equal in a video game.

A few Jedi (the Masters) could take on that much, most couldn't. Even the ones that could didn't take such a challenge lightly. Jedi did have special powers, but they also trained to fight a certain way. Good bounty hunters like Jango and Boba could take out Jedi because they trained on a fighting style that could counter or subvert the style of the Jedi. A good example of that in one of the book series is Jaina Solo being trained by Boba Fett to take down her brother, because she couldn't compete with her brother with the usual Force tactics.

Originally posted by Sylvene

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"They pulled a joke on Saturday, announcing a big reveal then flashing up "Darth Binks" to stunned silence and a smattering of laughter. "I think we failed on humor," said Bioware Producer, Jake Neri. "Wait, what did you think?" asked Lucas Arts Public Relations Manager, Adam Kahn. Well, I was laughing so hard, I forgot to take a picture of the "reveal." Darth Binks was not shown again on Sunday, but from my reaction and the bits of laughter they had heard from the crowd, they thought the joke a success. Yes, with this many dedicated Star Wars fans, canon humor is a little tough."

I don't think that canon humor is tough at all. There was a time that I would have laughed at such a thing. Considering what MMO game companies do today that makes most people say or think "WTF" and that Bioware is known for not revealing much if any information about their games, it doesn't surprise me at all that the vast majority of that audience was silent. They thought it was a serious revel and obviously didn't approve.

If Bioware maintains to skimp on information releases (which is their modus operandi), giving a good feel for what is actual information, then they should probably back off trying such humor. By such humor I mean grabbing polarizing figures such as Jar Jar and making such a joke. I doubt much of the audience for this game likes Jar Jar, which would give base to the reaction they experienced.

 

Keen observation Khal, and it shows exactly the fact that BioWare/LEC don't really know their audience. I mean C'mon, this was PAX. It's a Con. It's a place for hard cores to gather. These are the people who know about the NGE have seen these kind of blunders in other MMOs that would make them believe that maybe yes, perhaps LEC/BioWare have actually put a Gungan Sith Lord in the game because frankly, stuff like this doesn't surprise people anymore (SWG Cupid Ewoks anyone?). They don't TRUST LucasArts. For LEC not to be sensitive to that is not really surprising, but shows bad judgement on their part.

True enough, the average SW fan (non-Con going, Cosplay wearing) might think this is funny, as they are perhaps a bit more trusting of the IP holder.

To be fair i TOTALLY want to play Gungan Sith Lord (and a Gorn Federation MEdical Officier in ST:O)

Off Topic but I can't resist...  - What about Ferenghi Science Officer in ST:O?  :P

I was thinking Ferengi Cheif of Security, and Oriin Science Officier.

Maybe a Andorian Science Offcier or navigator?

Originally posted by kevingaily

 

In episode 2 I believe, many jedi fell in the stadium scene before the republic showed up to bail them out with the clone troopers. Those jedi didn't look that tough. They were dying left and right by federation robot troopers.  Luke or Obi Wan could have wiped the floor versus 3 of these guys. In fact Jango would have eaten one of them alive.  Clearly the iconic top tiered jedi/masters were the exception, not the rule.

This.  Most Jedi/Sith/force users weren't anywhere near as powerful as the top end guys, like Vader, Luke or Yoda.  So its quite possible for someone with the skills and experience of a Jango Fett to defeat the average Jedi or Sith.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

The line that gets me is trying to make sure all the classes are balanced against one another. The problem is as soon as that happens the game isn't true to the lore of Star Wars. If you're a Jedi or a Sith and you get taken down by a smuggler or bounty hunter, well you are the worst Jedi/Sith to ever have lived. Both the Jedis and Siths have skills far beyond the normal people that it just doesn't make any sense for them to be balanced against one another.

 

That sums up the major flaw in the design of this whole game. "We're going to let people play Jedis and Siths." Oh that's cool are there going to be other choices "Yes there will be many other classes that can be played." Oh well why wouldn't everyone just play Jedi and Sith, they're the most interesting and by far the most powerful. "Well we're going to make all the class types balanced against one another so that they can stand toe to toe." Um what?

 

Yes Hans Solo is an interesting character and fun to think about, but in case you missed it he got abused by every type of character in Star Wars. He didn't win fights he had to run from fights and use his smuggling abilities to get away, hide, and stay alive. He didn't go up to Darth Vadar and pistol whip him.

Funny that you mention that, because there ARE in fact, instances were the Jedi have fallen to "just 'ole regular smugglers"/bounty hunters"

In fact, there's a comic in which Bobba Fett manages to wield a lightsaber and fights off Vader and hold his grown very well. Darth Grievous is just a cybernetic human (non-Jedi) and was able to kill many SKILLED Jedi, so don't go knocking the "normies" saying they can't fight off Jedi, when in reality, there are many instances when they have.

 seeing into the future isnt the cooles, the Florwalking(past and future) that Jasion(sory for spelling) solo dos is way cooler, and only a handful know of this skill, (inkluding Ben skywalker).  but then a gen, The mandalorian armor is so strong it can whitstant the blow from a light saber. 

if you got problems Read upp on the damn lore, not just the movies, This game isnt based on them alone, But the whole of the Universe, if you do that, you will se that Jedi die all the time, by the hands of even lesser ppl, ( Dark Nest enyone?) iven coruptet by insekts...............

And to point out a jedi can be killed by enything, by enyone. so Whats the problem in balansing?

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

The line that gets me is trying to make sure all the classes are balanced against one another. The problem is as soon as that happens the game isn't true to the lore of Star Wars. If you're a Jedi or a Sith and you get taken down by a smuggler or bounty hunter, well you are the worst Jedi/Sith to ever have lived. Both the Jedis and Siths have skills far beyond the normal people that it just doesn't make any sense for them to be balanced against one another.

 

That sums up the major flaw in the design of this whole game. "We're going to let people play Jedis and Siths." Oh that's cool are there going to be other choices "Yes there will be many other classes that can be played." Oh well why wouldn't everyone just play Jedi and Sith, they're the most interesting and by far the most powerful. "Well we're going to make all the class types balanced against one another so that they can stand toe to toe." Um what?

 

Yes Hans Solo is an interesting character and fun to think about, but in case you missed it he got abused by every type of character in Star Wars. He didn't win fights he had to run from fights and use his smuggling abilities to get away, hide, and stay alive. He didn't go up to Darth Vadar and pistol whip him.

I totally agree with you.

However, I am a seasoned roleplayer, so if I end up playing this I can cope in my own way. For example; if I'm playing a Jedi, and as a player I know there are bounty hunters and smugglers out there who stand an average or better chance of beating me in a fight, then my Jedi will be a wheezing, alcoholic degenerate. Blind drunk most of the time infact, and barely able to grip his lightsabre for more than a few seconds before fumbling it as he slips in a puddle of his own vomit. THAT would not only put him on an even pegging with the other lesser classes, but make him more fun to play to boot.

Originally posted by Question82

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

The line that gets me is trying to make sure all the classes are balanced against one another. The problem is as soon as that happens the game isn't true to the lore of Star Wars. If you're a Jedi or a Sith and you get taken down by a smuggler or bounty hunter, well you are the worst Jedi/Sith to ever have lived. Both the Jedis and Siths have skills far beyond the normal people that it just doesn't make any sense for them to be balanced against one another.

 

That sums up the major flaw in the design of this whole game. "We're going to let people play Jedis and Siths." Oh that's cool are there going to be other choices "Yes there will be many other classes that can be played." Oh well why wouldn't everyone just play Jedi and Sith, they're the most interesting and by far the most powerful. "Well we're going to make all the class types balanced against one another so that they can stand toe to toe." Um what?

 

Yes Hans Solo is an interesting character and fun to think about, but in case you missed it he got abused by every type of character in Star Wars. He didn't win fights he had to run from fights and use his smuggling abilities to get away, hide, and stay alive. He didn't go up to Darth Vadar and pistol whip him.

 

Funny that you mention that, because there ARE in fact, instances were the Jedi have fallen to "just 'ole regular smugglers"/bounty hunters"

In fact, there's a comic in which Bobba Fett manages to wield a lightsaber and fights off Vader and hold his grown very well. Darth Grievous is just a cybernetic human (non-Jedi) and was able to kill many SKILLED Jedi, so don't go knocking the "normies" saying they can't fight off Jedi, when in reality, there are many instances when they have.

Lest we also not forget you see a few times in the movies Jedi running from Droidekas...   

As far as I'm concerned you guys are all Luke from episode 4, in which case I"ll be blowing you to smitherines left and right with my bounty hunter.

Honestly, yes, Jedi and Sith shouldn't be completely balanced with the other random classes. Just not WAY higher than those classes. In the books and movies alike, it usually came down to who made the mistake first in a fight. THAT should be the way it should go down more than anything. If you know your class, and know how to fight against the other various classes, then as long as you don't make the  mistake first, you should have a chance.

The problem (IMO) is when companies try to balance out classes to compensate for those players that don't know how to play their selected class properly.

It's not about gimping the Jedi/Sith to balance them to the other classes.  It's about giving the other classes more.  Give the Bounty Hunter, Trooper and Smuggler all kinds of flame throwers and jet packs and sleep darts and stun guns and grenades.  Jedi only use lightsabres.  Besides the developer giving Jedi/Sith specific ways to use the Force all they have is their lightsabre.

 Why does it feel like the same mistakes made in SWG will be made. You cant put facts of movies in to a game and pretend to make them work out flawlesly. 

Range classes vs melle classes is what im seeing. Make the math, a player shooting from range will have an easyer time playing the game like 100% of the times and the melle class will have trouble shasing players that dont stop moving, not to mention th facts that the Saber animations are gonnabe fuckt up cuz its hard to make animations of melle combats in stances wile theplayer is actually moving.....Look at SWG!!!

Originally posted by frajhav

 Why does it feel like the same mistakes made in SWG will be made. You cant put facts of movies in to a game and pretend to make them work out flawlesly. 

 

Range classes vs melle classes is what im seeing. Make the math, a player shooting from range will have an easyer time playing the game like 100% of the times and the melle class will have trouble shasing players that dont stop moving, not to mention th facts that the Saber animations are gonnabe fuckt up cuz its hard to make animations of melle combats in stances wile theplayer is actually moving.....Look at SWG!!!

I find your lack of faith disturbing....

world of star wars