A lot of it has to do with the developers really. If they design a game to be fast to level through, then people will level fast through it.

I played EQ1 back in its glory days, where the mantra was SLOW leveling lol. To say the least. The speed at which exp was gained back then meant that a rush to the top was not very likely. Which made it so much more casual in a way...

Basically, in a fast to lvl game, like EQ2, WoW, and everything else, you always want to catch up with the other guy, or at least stay on the same level as those you started playing next to. Since leveling happens so fast, you gotta be quick about it. Conversely, old EQ1 which leveled slowly, you could literally take a week off and BARELY be 1 level behind the others if they got some good xp groups going while you were away.

EQ2... WoW... you take a week off, you will NEVER see your peers again lol. But then again, EQ2 and WoW and such, they aren't designed for the journey to end game, they are designed morre for the end game itself. Kinda like you cant really bash a bird for flying instead of swimming since it was created specifically to fly.

Originally posted by Lasastard

My guesses:

A) One key motivation of playing MMOs (or games in general) is the endorphine rush you gain through accomplishments ala "level-up". Since the effect is only short-lived you crave it again thus creating a continuously increasing 'forward motion' from level up to level up. It seems to me to be quite similar to caffeine or other drugs - addiction through pleasure; with a rapid breakdown of the effect (the basis for any addiction, btw).

B) Many MMOs are simply an example of piss poor design and lack of imagination between start and level cap. The Endgame is often, not always, the only reasonably solid and challenging aspect.

C) Competitiveness - gamers define their enjoyment not based on a rich and immersive story, but through competition with others (i.e. racing to reach level cap)

D) Many games (most, actually) have a heavily tiered game world, creating artificial borders between players of different levels - which only break down at cap level.

This sums it up nicely.

---

Originally posted by Spankthetoad
I think to many players are missing the point of online gaming its not always the finish its the journey.

---

However, it -is- easier to level whilst there are many other players your level. Its horrible to try to find a party when the whole server playerbase is max level.

Originally posted by Tisiphone

 

QFT

 

However, it -is- easier to level whilst there are many other players your level. Its horrible to try to find a party when the whole server playerbase is max level.

That isn't really so common in most games. Older players usually makes new alts and new people join the game. I can imagine that it might be a problem in old games that attract few new players like EQ, or older Wow servers but I never had any problem and I am usually taking my time, at least with the first character.

The endgame can be fun but I like the story of many games and wants to explore as much as possible of it. I personally think it is a misstake by most games to slowly raise the levelcap and at the same time making leveling easier. It slowly turns the whole game until a tutorial for the endgame content.

Of course I understand that other people prefer playing the endgame and that is fine to me, but I think it sucks when they nerf the difficulty of all the early stuff so a 8 year old kid can do it without effort.

I wish that they made leveling taking it's time, not so you must grind but so you have to see a lot of the content. They could then make it easier to level up the second character instead. People are just missing so much of the older games today.

Levels are made to be important. Here is how-

• You level to be able to equip the uber armors and weapons. We all know the lvl 100 armor is cooler/stronger than the level 20 armor (unless they ran out of design ideas).
• You level for PvP and to progress through PvE or to more easily kill things.
• You level because monsters and quests hand out exp. which goes to leveling. Funny how that works.
• You level because you'll never get out of Territory A alive without getting stronger.
• You level because the history of MMO's and gaming has burned into your brain.

Rushing through the leveling makes you stronger faster, gets you all over the map, lets you look epic, and you get to experience end game.

How about we replace leveling? But not with something that will just take it's spot  with a different name. I'm not exactly sure if leveling could ever successfully be replaced and I don't think every game company should ditch leveling. I just think some games should murder leveling and make a business model to fit.

Originally posted by Thradar

mmos have turned gaming from adventuring, fun, and excitement in to collecting "things."  You can only collect the best "things" at endgame.  So why not rush there?  How do you progress?  By accumulating more/new "things."  This is the mentality that is ruining the online genre...IMO.

Originally posted by metalhead980

When someone rushes to Endgame its because the game it self is flawed.

The leveling content in those games are so inferior that people rush through terrible content for what is the "real game".

Back in the day we didn't need to rush to endgame because their wasn't one. The whole game was a joy to play.

I wish as MMOs evolved they didn't forget the fun.

OP, A sign of a bad MMO is when you see everyone maximizing their gameplay to hit cap faster. Noone will rush through quality content just bad lame repetitive shit.

These two here pretty much sum it up.  UO there was no rushing to endgame because the game was developing your character not collecting phat loot.

Originally posted by noob2Epic

Levels are made to be important. Here is how-

• You level to be able to equip the uber armors and weapons. We all know the lvl 100 armor is cooler/stronger than the level 20 armor (unless they ran out of design ideas).
• You level for PvP and to progress through PvE or to more easily kill things.
• You level because monsters and quests hand out exp. which goes to leveling. Funny how that works.
• You level because you'll never get out of Territory A alive without getting stronger.
• You level because the history of MMO's and gaming has burned into your brain.

 

Rushing through the leveling makes you stronger faster, gets you all over the map, lets you look epic, and you get to experience end game.

How about we replace leveling? But not with something that will just take it's spot  with a different name. I'm not exactly sure if leveling could ever successfully be replaced and I don't think every game company should ditch leveling. I just think some games should murder leveling and make a business model to fit.

Players are going to rush no matter what.   Players do speed runs of everything, regardless of whether it has progression, so making any design concessions to "prevent racing" is going to be a losing proposition.

Even so, there's ways to make racing less apparent, but limiting how much "skippable" content your game has, either by being a jerk and making quest text and cutscenes unskippable (thus making your playerbase hate you), or by not having as many cutscenes and as much (or any) quest text.

Which isn't to say games can't be made without levels, or with short/shallow progression systems.  It's just that using those methods to "prevent rushing to endgame" is not going to work.  Because players are going to rush through content regardless.

Does it have anything to do with these questions?

Endgame is where everyone is more equal so you aren't at a disadvantage?

Most players are at this point?

Endgame is where players make goals?

Or being at endgame they feel like they have won or beat the game?

I like how some games have an approach to where the end of the game is not limited to soon after max level(or have a max "level") or isn't reachable in less than a year.

i never rush i enjoy every drop of the mmo's i play.

I actually hate the term "End Game". If I am paying money to play an MMO then I would like to think that it did not end. I do feel that people rush to get to "End Game" because the content in between feels like a chore and something that you just want to hurry up and get past. Also I think one of the biggest reasons why people want to get to "End Game" content is because they feel like they have something to prove and feel like being better then the other players is something important and really matters to them in their lives. I remember playing Asheron's Call back when it first came out and playing on the PvP server Darktide, there was really no end game just alot of open PvP and trying to level and get better gear to survive.  

I have to say that my guild rushes to the end of MMOs when they're first released. We don't immediately start on "end-game" content afterwards though. Instead, upon reaching level cap, we procedurally take a look around the entire world, and just enjoy it... without worrying about agroing mobs or other players. Of course, we also dislike griefers, which I'm guessing there are some on here who will read through this thread. Why grief? That's a better question imho. Kill me once, good on ya. Kill me twice, then you know you're better. Kill me three times...? Now, you're not trying to prove anything, other than you're a douche.

No clue where that came from as I haven't REALLY played an MMO in almost a year (might try RoM soon...), but everything else out there is just boring to me. Digressing...

Sorry for the sidebar folks. As I said, end-game first, then I enjoy. Now when SW:TOR comes out, I think we're gonna change our tune. It's been something my guild has been wanting for a long time. BioWare+MMO=PewPewBlizzgoBOOM!!!

Originally posted by Rafterman414

I actually hate the term "End Game". If I am paying money to play an MMO then I would like to think that it did not end. I do feel that people rush to get to "End Game" because the content in between feels like a chore and something that you just want to hurry up and get past. Also I think one of the biggest reasons why people want to get to "End Game" content is because they feel like they have something to prove and feel like being better then the other players is something important and really matters to them in their lives. I remember playing Asheron's Call back when it first came out and playing on the PvP server Darktide, there was really no end game just alot of open PvP and trying to level and get better gear to survive.  

It's going to have an end to content either way.  Just because AC1 didn't cap levels doesn't mean there wasn't a point where you ran out of interesting, distinct content.  An end to interesting, distinct content definitely existed with AC1.

Originally posted by Thradar

mmos have turned gaming from adventuring, fun, and excitement in to collecting "things."  You can only collect the best "things" at endgame.  So why not rush there?  How do you progress?  By accumulating more/new "things."  This is the mentality that is ruining the online genre...IMO.

This is probably the most true statment I have ever read here. Time and time again i try to explain to my buddies who are new MMOers how the old games used to be and they just dont get it. They always wanted to know what kind of gear you got. Its a sad thing.

I think Guild Wars has some good ideas about how to not put so much pressure on "Rush to the End" playstyle. . . and games that use a Mentor system as well.

For the most part, the reason I always felt "rushed" was I would start a character, have a friend that was higher level than I and wanted to group with em, so I'd try to rush through the grind, and never seemed to catch up most of the time because other person was leveling too and playing the game. Or, group with a few people, and the next day they're a few levels ahead, and then play like hell trying to keep up.

Another reason is say PvP... but another big reason was farming for me. I'd rush a high damage AoE toon usually to "endgame", so I could have an effective farmer to twink out characters I'd like to take my time with and enjoy playing, rather than worry about gear or feeling underpowered if I wanted to solo a bit.

Some classes don't shine till mid-late levels. Remember playing a Priest in early WoW, could never find groups for quests or anyone that needed a healer in early levels EXCEPT for constant runs in instances. The only thing that made me sane playing it was twinking the character out till I could effectively grind on do the Shadow thing.

Originally posted by rejad

To use your restaurant analogy, in MMO's leveling is the appetizer and the 'endgame' is the actual meal.  The only thing is that the appetizer is boiled cabbage and you have to eat an entire room full of it first. All the effort is put into the endgame.

All the content being made is for the end game. Other players aren't even interested in you until you have something to offer them, which in most MMO's sadly doesn't occur until endgame. People want to solo leveling so all leveling content is soloable, no reason to group. The game designers don't want to put in XP bonuses for grouping because dividing XP has been done since Gary Gygax crawled out of his mother's basement sometime in the mid-60's and why would anyone even think of doing something, you know, DIFFERENT?

All interaction is at the end game. All new content is at the end game. You are useless to the rest of the players until you hit the end game. Maybe you enjoy reading the weak excuse stories behind the 500th "go here and kill 10 of this" quest you've done somewhere half-way to max level, but most people don't.

This post is it in a nut shell, you just have to actually 'read' what he wrote. They rush to the endgame because they have a NEED to be accepted by others. They feel the only way to be recognized is by being a part of a perceived 'in crowd'. This 'in crowd' however won't recognize you unless you are useful to them, which requires you to have skipped the rest of the game and gotten directly to the end.

This mentality is exactly why I normally avoid the rush to the endgame, not because I can't, but because I have no desire to 'hang out' with anyone who follows this philosophy. I find it flawed, not just in the sense of MMORPG playing but in life itself. I am happy with who I am and what I have accomplished in life, I dont need others to tell me how great I am or accept me into thier click to feel I am a success. But yeah, thats why they do it in games.

Originally posted by Skooma2

Originally posted by Spankthetoad

  I have come across area's in Guildwars that my Guild was not even aware of 1 year into the first game.  So as they say take your time and smell the roses.  You may fine that you enjoy the game much more that way. :}

 

But, what people who don't play GW don't know is that GW is ALL end-game.  Getting to level 20, especially if you start with Factions or Nightfall, is not particularly time-consuming.  After that, everything else, by definition, is end-game.  And, if you think your game world is large, try getting all the Cartographer titles in GW.

GW is not all about end game.  pvp wise of course but definately not in GW Prophecies.  It was an extremely long campaign that taught you about your character and party, the story, and exploring the environment.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Liltawen

I think 'Endgames' are a holdover from the old linear PC gaming world.

Theoretically an MMO wouldn't have one-just an environment that your character would wander around in doing whatever adventures that interest you.

Even the big Theme park MMOs are this way to a degree (in LOTRO you don't Have to do the Book Quests for example). A true MMO would never really have an 'End"

I think it's a holdover for newbe gamers who haven't figured out the MMO universe yet.

 

 

All of todays mmos have an endgame. only difference with the newer games is you have two and sometimes three endgames to choose from.

Its a step up but still not as good as the old sandbox games like UO and SWG.

EvE has no real endgame. It actually has that "environment you can wander around in doing whatever interests you". Granted, the environments aren't to everyone's taste, bu t then that will be true of any game.

Originally posted by Spankthetoad

I have played many online games and have seen this though the years.  Game comes out and there is this mad rush to get to the end game.  I don't get it. I mean we don't go to a fine restaurant and wolf down the food as fast as we can.  I hope you do not make love like that either lol.  I think to many players are missing the point of online gaming its not always the finish its the journey.  There is so much to see and find in online gaming that i think you miss so much rushing that you really miss out on much of the game.  I have come across area's in Guildwars that my Guild was not even aware of 1 year into the first game.  So as they say take your time and smell the roses.  You may fine that you enjoy the game much more that way. :}

I usually find that the ones that rush to the end often don't have the necessary skills to play their character to its fullest. To fully understand how to play a character or class you need to try it from multiple angles, and that takes time and effort.
 

i think the problem is twofold

one the one hand we have all grinded to max level in so many games before and there is only so many different ways you can change things up

On the other hand the devs seem to focus almost entirelly on the endgame...WoW has been out for what...5 years now and its only just started to revamp old areas.  The other side of this is that there is too much weak content on the way to max level which leads to people rushing though.  This is either the devs fault (little innovation or ideas being tossed around) or the communities fault (avoiding certain zones, clumping in areas or avoiding grouping).

Easy awnser. Mmo's are easyer than non mmo's now.  How many games out there have you go out there have you go kill 10 rats bring there heads back and get tones amount of exp or you loot somthing stupid on the ground (collection type). I dont have facts but im postive most poeple will play an easyer game than a challanging game. Very few games have hosntly done well where rushing to endgame dosn't matter. a few examples  everquest orignaly was big exploring and quests meaned somthing in that game (reward was well worth it).But in that game alot of the quests requird alot of effort. ddo has content for all levels and realy dont feel the rush to level but more to explore.   AOC WOW eq2 anyother clone is same game diffrent skin -  go kill rats bring there heads back level up fast and effortless. guss what now there maken the end game content effortless to .  It's defently only about the dollar welcome to effortless/skill less gaming experances era.