Seriously, get a life people. If you don't like the game, don't play it. The fact that you are wasting your time posting on these forums, circlejerking with each other about how much you dislike the auto-follow feature, speaks volumes about your age.

A quick update on my thoughts on the Auto-follow, positioning, etc. argument.

If all you had was autofollow and there were no other way to move then those saying that Autofollow takes out any positioning would have a point.

But they dont.

Today I tried an assassin and I found out something very interesting and also very...relevant to the discussion.

1) In Aion, some of your powerful moves require you to stand still when firing them. This also is the case with MOBs. Interestingly, Moves where you reduce the enemy's movement you can move while firing, which is a good choice in my opinion.

2) Apparently, When MOB starts to use SUPER UBER MELEE ATTACK I can simply strafe behind them and smack them with my most powerful move thus far, Sneak Attack in the BACK.

Wow look, its almost as if POSITIONING and using movement in a totally non-autofollow way come into play!

I would still argue that 99% of MMORPGs, whether their combat system relies on twitch based, cooldowns, auto-follow, total freeform movement, etc. are THE SUCK at combat skill being an equation in a pvp or even pve fight. Its just...not how they are designed unfortunately. But to say AION is skill-less for autofollow is silly, and that positioning isnt there (not true) or that you cant run and hide (also not true) is just examples of not understanding how things work.

I havent PvPed yet in AION. I cannot say if it is fun or not. We will see. But Auto-follow, to me, works in its favor not against it.

The only thing Autofollow prevents is absurd skill-less crap like running around in crazy circles, 'circle strafing' (in an MMO? This should never happen), and jumping through and around everywhere.

I don't really think auto-follow vs no auto-follow is a big deal for the average gamer. I don't think Aion will grow to be very big in NA/EU, but that's for entirely different reasons.

Originally posted by HJFudge

A quick update on my thoughts on the Auto-follow, positioning, etc. argument.

 

If all you had was autofollow and there were no other way to move then those saying that Autofollow takes out any positioning would have a point.

But they dont.

 

Today I tried an assassin and I found out something very interesting and also very...relevant to the discussion.

 

1) In Aion, some of your powerful moves require you to stand still when firing them. This also is the case with MOBs. Interestingly, Moves where you reduce the enemy's movement you can move while firing, which is a good choice in my opinion.

2) Apparently, When MOB starts to use SUPER UBER MELEE ATTACK I can simply strafe behind them and smack them with my most powerful move thus far, Sneak Attack in the BACK.

Wow look, its almost as if POSITIONING and using movement in a totally non-autofollow way come into play!

 

I would still argue that 99% of MMORPGs, whether their combat system relies on twitch based, cooldowns, auto-follow, total freeform movement, etc. are THE SUCK at combat skill being an equation in a pvp or even pve fight. Its just...not how they are designed unfortunately. But to say AION is skill-less for autofollow is silly, and that positioning isnt there (not true) or that you cant run and hide (also not true) is just examples of not understanding how things work.

 

I havent PvPed yet in AION. I cannot say if it is fun or not. We will see. But Auto-follow, to me, works in its favor not against it.

 

The only thing Autofollow prevents is absurd skill-less crap like running around in crazy circles, 'circle strafing' (in an MMO? This should never happen), and jumping through and around everywhere.

Dude you haven't made any valid points. Obviously there is some usefulness in autofollow feature if people on the video I posted are using it all the time. If you, as lowbie sin doesn't see them this doesn't mean they aren't there

To all of those that says autofollow isn't a bad/gamebreaking feature - check the quoted post. This person tried to actually provide some arguments as to why it isnt'. Going "OMG TROLLS STOP QQ AUTOFOLLOW RULES" isn't going to prove your point and I can congratulate to numerous of people here wasting their time to identify a valid points me and other "troll's" made as TROLLING TITS OR GTFO. Next time when you hit that reply button remember that this won't add anything substantial to the debate and instead click on open beta client and have fun.

To the person who is claiming impossible all the way to comparing EVE and Aion - please provide us with better videos of Aion pvp or better arguments. The ones posted make Aion either a crazy people on stereoids or retarded old people on chill pill (1v1 and group pvp)

Originally posted by Model192

Same old stuff, no real depth of character or anything like that. Very WoW like but seem to pull it off worse with clumsier controls. Graphics are really nice. Good graphics.

The one thing I could see being a major problem is the attacking "feature". On my warrior if you click attack it will autofollow/attack at the same time. How could this be good for PVP or inject any skill into it what so ever? Ugh.

Does it feel like they've been in release for a whole year? No.

Same old boring quests. Would I pay 50$ for release and a monthly when I can just stay subbed to another game? NO. NO WAY IN HELL.

I mean good attempt, just...no. This style of play just turns into every other style of korean gameplay. 1. Have better gear and have spells queued up in the right order. Roast someone. Rinse and repeat. Just the fact that the game doesn't have a free movement system for pvp really douches it up.

I dunno, I won't be wasting my money on this. You can call me a troll or whatever you'd like but I saw the PVP videos and everything...no.

Some people will like it, probably the PVE gang.

I propose that Wo_ (censored) be banned, (no pun...really), or rather any mention of any part of Wo_ (censored) from forums everywhere. Even the Wo_ (censored) ones. It would be a major "acheivement" if we changed the "battleground" to a different stage. It's becoming a "seasonal" event to constantly have Wo_ (censored) mashed in our faces like so much "Storm"wind.  Let it go to the "graveyard" and never "Rez".

Originally posted by nihce

Originally posted by HJFudge

A quick update on my thoughts on the Auto-follow, positioning, etc. argument.

 

If all you had was autofollow and there were no other way to move then those saying that Autofollow takes out any positioning would have a point.

But they dont.

 

Today I tried an assassin and I found out something very interesting and also very...relevant to the discussion.

 

1) In Aion, some of your powerful moves require you to stand still when firing them. This also is the case with MOBs. Interestingly, Moves where you reduce the enemy's movement you can move while firing, which is a good choice in my opinion.

2) Apparently, When MOB starts to use SUPER UBER MELEE ATTACK I can simply strafe behind them and smack them with my most powerful move thus far, Sneak Attack in the BACK.

Wow look, its almost as if POSITIONING and using movement in a totally non-autofollow way come into play!

 

I would still argue that 99% of MMORPGs, whether their combat system relies on twitch based, cooldowns, auto-follow, total freeform movement, etc. are THE SUCK at combat skill being an equation in a pvp or even pve fight. Its just...not how they are designed unfortunately. But to say AION is skill-less for autofollow is silly, and that positioning isnt there (not true) or that you cant run and hide (also not true) is just examples of not understanding how things work.

 

I havent PvPed yet in AION. I cannot say if it is fun or not. We will see. But Auto-follow, to me, works in its favor not against it.

 

The only thing Autofollow prevents is absurd skill-less crap like running around in crazy circles, 'circle strafing' (in an MMO? This should never happen), and jumping through and around everywhere.

Dude you haven't made any valid points. Obviously there is some usefulness in autofollow feature if people on the video I posted are using it all the time. If you, as lowbie sin doesn't see them this doesn't mean they aren't there

To all of those that says autofollow isn't a bad/gamebreaking feature - check the quoted post. This person tried to actually provide some arguments as to why it isnt'. Going "OMG TROLLS STOP QQ AUTOFOLLOW RULES" isn't going to prove your point and I can congratulate to numerous of people here wasting their time to identify a valid points me and other "troll's" made as TROLLING TITS OR GTFO. Next time when you hit that reply button remember that this won't add anything substantial to the debate and instead click on open beta client and have fun.

To the person who is claiming impossible all the way to comparing EVE and Aion - please provide us with better videos of Aion pvp or better arguments. The ones posted make Aion either a crazy people on stereoids or retarded old people on chill pill (1v1 and group pvp)

Autofollow wont help you win fights.

Furthermore, circle strafing wont help you win fights either.

Go ahead, circle strafe on your assassin - but realize if your doing the foward circle strafing for the dmg buff, the increased damage YOU take far surpasses the additoinal damage you are doing. Circle strafing sideways/? Sure, youll dodge more, but a templar will be hitting for more damage then you are.

Theres no way to say it that is not rude. People who make claims about autofollowing and circle strafing have no idea what the heck they are talking about.

To the OP, aside from familiarity in some mechanics, the mixture of the basic mechanics + combo system + movement buffs + flight make it far different feeling from other MMO's out there. You dont queue up spells in any specific order.

Normal PvE questing is somewhat valid of an argument, but its a silly one, because over 90% of MMO's have the usual PvE leveling systems. What makes a difference in MMO's is what comes after the leveling.

In the end, AIon IS a PvP game. The claims that this is a game for PvE'ers shows how little you actually played the game. PvE players who do not like to PvP would HATE Aion.

You cant really judge any level based MMO by the "leveling up" portion because they are all the same at that point. Well you can, but you wont have enough information to know what the heck you are talking about when you try to tell others if the game is good or bad.

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Originally posted by durkdreven

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Originally posted by bastii

Too linear, this game makes WoW look good. I thought I would never say that ><. Back to WoW I go.

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for a preteen like you, having tried the game <10 levels, its probably also the bes t you go back to your kiddo bubble game.
 
you were deemed not worthy

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Seems like the Aion fanboys are hurt that as soon as Aion was opened to the masses the masses didnt like it.

Here's a better reason why auto-following/auto-facing isn't a game breaking feature.

First, there is no way to simulate the full range of controls over another humanoid creature in a virtual enviroment. Therefore, curtain functions like accuracy, must be automatic and given to the computer to control. Some games have tried to make manual targetting and that has proven difficult to balance and stablize in an MMORPG enviorment.

So with that idea established, then why can we not give the character some common combat skills. If your fighting someone and he backs up. Your not going to simply stand there and attempt to swing at an enemy. If you don't allow auto following/facing, then you will get broken graphics and more circle-strafing. Most of the time each attack will not be perfectly facing the target (as your manually facing) and then the game looks wrong.

You do lose some degree of skill. But this is an acceptable loss as this game is not focused around individual 1v1 skill but, group organization and PvP. WoW's PvP is directly focused into arenas. BGs are just there for 'fun'. Aion's PvP is going to be in castle sieges and world ganks. This kind of stuff would just hinder that gameplay instead of improving it.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Krilster

Originally posted by Model192 

Some people will like it, probably the PVE gang.

 

Yet another moron that thinks the first 10 levels are the entire game.

(The PvPvE aspect in the game 20+ is quite good actually)

Move along everyone, nothing to see here.
 

I'm sorry to tell you this but a player can figure out if a combat system is shit within the first 10 minutes of playing.

Going melee makes my character auto follow? jesus dude most people blasted WAR for having auto facing.

That's a big blow to aion dude. WoW players will try this for a month and leave.

If you can't top WoWs combat why even make a themepark mmo? fail

Oh and just for your information before you call me a wow fanboi I hate that shitty game.

He obviously did not understand the combat system in those 10 minutes.

When you move forward, you get a buff that increases you damage, but ALSO increases how much damage you TAKE. The increase to damage TAKEN increases more then your buff of damage.

Sure, they can use the "auto follow" to their advantage - and get owned badly.

Sideways gives you an evade buff, but lowers ur damage. Backwards gives a block/parry buff but lowers ur damage.

Movement is much more strategic and involves some more tactical advantages beyond logistics, which is the only difference movement makes in other games.

Common sense - dont listen to people who are judging a combat system who did not play the game long enough to become familiar with the mechanics. Furthermore, MMO combat evolves as you level up until the endgame.

If you want fair reviews of a game, you need to listen to someone who actually played the entire game.

Would you prefer your game reviewing websites such as Gamespot to play the games thoroughly and make a review? Or play for an hour and make a review based upon that gameplay time?

Gamespot did the latter with AoC and gave it huge ratings - look how that turned out.

I can not wait for all the WoWhiners to finish their OB run and move on.  One of the main reasons most the folks I know are leaving WoW are clogging chat in Open Beta.  Yes, this game does have some similarities to WoW to try and bring some relation to what has been productive in the gaming community.  Yes, this game will try and break away from the same controls as WoW just like any game will when trying to go away from what WoW has adopted as its style.  WoW surfaced to the top and became popular, but it's not because it was ground breaking.  It's simply a very polished item after 5 years like EQ was after half a decade.  Everyone seems hell bent on creating a WoW killer out of anything that is released.  I could give two craps what WoW does.  They made their mark and are making money, good for them.  It's Capitalism at its best.  But a smaller embraced different concept of game play will attract a following, just like FFXI did.  I for one, hope it gets a good long run and a couple expansions under it's belt.  I'd really like to see what it evolves in to.

END OF LINE_

~V

Aion's combat system definitely does things for you that WoW does not such as auto facing if someone moves to your back side, auto range (moves you to range for spell casting); and auto following.  These things you must do yourself in WoW.  However that doesn't make Aion's system "bad".  It's just a different type of combat system although less twitchy and more forgiving it's still pretty in depth.  Just as DAOC had /face etc.  which was made fun of by a lot of people.  The whole "why not just make a macro that plays the game for me" joke.  Well it surely didn't make DAOC a bad pvp system, it wasn't as flashy and twitchy but it was still deep and tactical.  People like different things.

somethign I like about auto facing, is with no collision detection and spells with cast times, someone can't simply run through you to interrupt your cast.

and since its a PvP game, I think thats nice.

Originally posted by Morgaren

somethign I like about auto facing, is with no collision detection and spells with cast times, someone can't simply run through you to interrupt your cast.

and since its a PvP game, I think thats nice.

With the really massive battles I saw on youtube in the Abyss I can only imagine what collision would do to this game..

" Anyway whatever. I googled some videos so I would see for myself....."

Anytime you start off a argument like this you have already lost. Just a lesson for your further troll endeavors.

Currently digging Aion myself about to shower and play some more :)

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by Model192

Oh I'm sorry, watching the korean pvp tournaments and their autofollowing might have just convinced me that especially in 1v1 autofollow happens ALL MATCH.

 

Anyway, anyone who likes AION enjoy. Nothing wrong with liking it.

 

It happening doesn't make it any more effective. Again, refer to the video I posted to see how not autofollowing, taking shortcuts instead helped me in that situation.

The official battle strategy is called "cutting them off". As it's inbetween a flank and a direct route. I've noticed following always take the longest route to a player, which makes them follow you step by step, making it harder for them to close a gap on you wheres someone using their head would use open terrain to make small changes non click to get the upper hand. In other words, you will never be worried when trying to kite a follower becasue they are always going straight towards your traps/kites.

All in all, i've notice in any game I play, being able to cut someone off is way more effective than auto following.

Every time I win a duel with a crappy clicker, I will tell them straight up that they werent even fun to duel because they where too easy for me.  I will continue to tell them that if they ever wanna have a good duel with me they need to drop the clicking.

Originally posted by Perfection66

wow has an amazing community you should probably stick with that game.

Amazing community??? OMFG!

Wow you guys are seriously a joke if your complaining about the auto-follow system, and say how it will affect pvp and what not... Seems to me your just looking for reasons to put this game down. Im an old school UO player pre-tram and the only thing that disappoints me is you cant kill your own faction lol. All in all this is a pretty damn good game IMO.

Originally posted by Perfection66
wow has an amazing community you should probably stick with that game.

All I can say is LOFL to that. Back ... and I mean wayyyy back in like pre-bc and before vashj/kael nerf in BC yeah... the community wasn't bad and I had a lot of good friends who I rolled some faces with but as for the last 2-3 years....No...no it does not have a good community.

Originally posted by beeker255

" Anyway whatever. I googled some videos so I would see for myself....."

 

Anytime you start off a argument like this you have already lost. Just a lesson for your further troll endeavors.

 

Currently digging Aion myself about to shower and play some more :)

 

What are you talking about? Why would I "lost" (in a discussion there is no real win - you have to be an american :D) if I found ONLY reliable source available to me (maybe I could pay some korean guy 100 euros and get lvl 50 char?) at the current time and used is to back up my thought about PVP auto follow consequences? 

Anyway fact remains. I made a solid argument that still hasn't been met really. Auto follow is in a way game breaking to most EU PvPers /speccialy dueler) - something you will see after 2 months if you don't see it yet. So who is troll here? me being accused of not playing (I started first post saying that I am just speculationg) or you bunch of kids trying VERY poor to argument? 

L2mA - learn to make an Argument

 I think it's pretty amusing that every time someone has an opinion about a MMO, Wow is somehow always brought into that conversation. That show what a huge impact the game has had on the MMO genre.

It also amuses me that people will argue back and forth about how Wow sucks versus the MMO of topic, and vice versa. Fanboy wars never lead anywhere. The people that hate wow will still hate it and defend their beloved MMO of choice. The wow players will defend wow at every turn.

I guess what i'm trying to say is: Everyone has an opinion. People are in general conservative and view their first MMO experiences as the golden age. You won't change their minds.

I'm obviously biased as I still view Wow as the greatest MMO of all time to this date. And Aion won't change that. That said, I do enjoy the Aion beta and I have pre-ordered the game. I will be playing it on release day (Asmo scout). Aion has borrowed many concepts from Wow, but they would be stupid not to. I don't think there is anything wrong with borrowing good gameplay concepts from other games. A good idea is still a good idea. Wow borrowed many things from other MMOs at the time.

Anyway, there is no right or wrong MMO. Just play what you feel is fun.