Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by chaintm

To finalize my point, I call people to look up (if they haven't played it) one game that attempted the cross platform on the same server having pc and console players play to gather. Not only did the console people get dominated, the game failed due to such an unbalanced game due to controls. (Sure the game itself wasn't all the great ) but in the end it was the pc player that just dominated the console player due to controls. This is a prime example of how a game can and is basically dumbed down for console play. Look up the game called "shadowrun".

Nuff said.

 

 

To be blunt your point is garbage, *mod edit*

FFXI cross platforms on same server

Nuff Said

Actually no its not I want to rub it in a little more. There is no advantage to playing ffxi on PC other than a small graphics tweak. I claimed highly camped HNM's serveral times on Ps2. Controls are not dumbed down for console, its just slightly different from the norm.

Horrible excample, FFXI has no challenge about it in terms of gameplay, the grind of mobs hack and slash (suprise just as shadowrun was) is no excample of a general MMO. There are exceptions on both sides , so alas your excample doesn't dispute anything about control issues in console vs pc, you can't win the argument, it's like saying the sky is blue when it actually isn't, only the sea makes it seem blue, but then again if you want to "simplify it" you can say it's blue.

With the game pad one joystick can be used like a mouse over the GUI, while the other controls movement. Maybe this will get MMOs out those boring stand and shoot fest and we will finally see some realistic movement as people actually try to manuvre as they fight.

Originally posted by chaintm

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by chaintm

To finalize my point, I call people to look up (if they haven't played it) one game that attempted the cross platform on the same server having pc and console players play to gather. Not only did the console people get dominated, the game failed due to such an unbalanced game due to controls. (Sure the game itself wasn't all the great ) but in the end it was the pc player that just dominated the console player due to controls. This is a prime example of how a game can and is basically dumbed down for console play. Look up the game called "shadowrun".

Nuff said.

 

 

To be blunt your point is garbage, *mod edit*

FFXI cross platforms on same server

Nuff Said

Actually no its not I want to rub it in a little more. There is no advantage to playing ffxi on PC other than a small graphics tweak. I claimed highly camped HNM's serveral times on Ps2. Controls are not dumbed down for console, its just slightly different from the norm.

 

Horrible excample, FFXI has no challenge about it in terms of gameplay, the grind of mobs hack and slash (suprise just as shadowrun was) is no excample of a general MMO. There are exceptions on both sides , so alas your excample doesn't dispute anything about control issues in console vs pc, you can't win the argument, it's like saying the sky is blue when it actually isn't, only the sea makes it seem blue, but then again if you want to "simplify it" you can say it's blue.

 

There is no challenging MMO game play. Hello Kitty online to WoW to EvE to FFXI to free relms to any other mainstream mmo of your choosing. MMO's by nature are designed so that a 90 year dude to a kid can play. (As long as he understands the concepts) MMO's acheive that.

Most MMO's is a hack and slash hotbar spamming mess of a grind of mobs with the exception of heavy PvP centric games.

Your right I cant win the argument because you have already chosen to stick your fingers in your ears and go nah nah nah nah nah.

And yes its been done poorly in the past, it has also been done exceptionally well with ffxi. I expect that SE with FFXIV will improve upon the UI further, proving again that it can be done just fine.

Guys calm down, before mods have to intervene.

Basically, this is a microcosm of the console vs pc argument, which no one wins at either.

Here is the list of assumptions made on both sides, which the other side doesn't share:

• PC audience is more mature
• Consoles are easier to develop for
• Consoles have simpler gameplay
• Consoles have inferior games
• PC games have expensive game requirements
• PC gamers are elitist

Those assumptions are why no agreement can be made. I haven't even read this thread, but I bet these arguments have been used at some point, correct?

The thing is, its hard to argue superiority for either consoles or PCs, because everyone has individual preferences. Some people like having games with 10,000 commands. Others don't. The ones who love uber-amounts of commands consider all games on consoles "crap" simply because of that fact. Fair enough, but really a silly reason to dismiss a game.

That means that they miss out on absolutely fun and brilliant games like Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and Rayman 2: The Great Escape.

So really, can we avoid the name-calling and the flaming please? Without making a compromise on assumptions you've made about Consoles and/or PCs, you will not agree, ever.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DerekGordon

Yes Star Trek will be on both PC and 360. Just like Champions Online.

Atari/Cryptic were able to work out a deal with both games.

Actually from the last interview with Jack Emmert concerning the Xbox version of CO he said they are having some difficulties negotiating a subscription plan with Microsoft over the Xbox version of CO. Jack has stated that they have the Xbox version all ready to ship but MS is standing in their way at the moment. This is a monumental moment in the future of console based MMOs as this move by MS is casting a dark cloud over the future of not only CO and STO for consoles but all future MMOs on consoles. Unless Cryptic and Microsoft can reach an agreement over this there may be no STO for Xbox 360.

 

The problem lies in the fact that Cryptic wants CO to be available to Xbox 360 Silver members(non-paying) and Microsoft is standing firm that only Gold members(paying) should have access to any multiplayer content on the Xbox Live service. Unless they can work this out there may be no CO or STO on the Xbox 360.

 

Bren

Could you give me a link to this info please? I am just asking because you can already play FFXI and Phantasy Star online on the 360 with Silver accounts.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by chaintm

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by chaintm

To finalize my point, I call people to look up (if they haven't played it) one game that attempted the cross platform on the same server having pc and console players play to gather. Not only did the console people get dominated, the game failed due to such an unbalanced game due to controls. (Sure the game itself wasn't all the great ) but in the end it was the pc player that just dominated the console player due to controls. This is a prime example of how a game can and is basically dumbed down for console play. Look up the game called "shadowrun".

Nuff said.

 

 

To be blunt your point is garbage, *mod edit*

FFXI cross platforms on same server

Nuff Said

Actually no its not I want to rub it in a little more. There is no advantage to playing ffxi on PC other than a small graphics tweak. I claimed highly camped HNM's serveral times on Ps2. Controls are not dumbed down for console, its just slightly different from the norm.

 

Horrible excample, FFXI has no challenge about it in terms of gameplay, the grind of mobs hack and slash (suprise just as shadowrun was) is no excample of a general MMO. There are exceptions on both sides , so alas your excample doesn't dispute anything about control issues in console vs pc, you can't win the argument, it's like saying the sky is blue when it actually isn't, only the sea makes it seem blue, but then again if you want to "simplify it" you can say it's blue.

 

 

There is no challenging MMO game play. Hello Kitty online to WoW to EvE to FFXI to free relms to any other mainstream mmo of your choosing. MMO's by nature are designed so that a 90 year dude to a kid can play. (As long as he understands the concepts) MMO's acheive that.

Most MMO's is a hack and slash hotbar spamming mess of a grind of mobs with the exception of heavy PvP centric games.

Your right I cant win the argument because you have already chosen to stick your fingers in your ears and go nah nah nah nah nah.

And yes its been done poorly in the past, it has also been done exceptionally well with ffxi. I expect that SE with FFXIV will improve upon the UI further, proving again that it can be done just fine.

 

Not to mention the sky appears blue because of light refraction through tiny water droplets in the upper atmosphere and has nothing to do with the ocean. Only the blue part of the light makes it through the refraction process and is why the sky appears blue. If your going to use a science example to make your point at least know what you're talking about. Sorry for the off topic post.

Bren

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DerekGordon

Yes Star Trek will be on both PC and 360. Just like Champions Online.

Atari/Cryptic were able to work out a deal with both games.

Actually from the last interview with Jack Emmert concerning the Xbox version of CO he said they are having some difficulties negotiating a subscription plan with Microsoft over the Xbox version of CO. Jack has stated that they have the Xbox version all ready to ship but MS is standing in their way at the moment. This is a monumental moment in the future of console based MMOs as this move by MS is casting a dark cloud over the future of not only CO and STO for consoles but all future MMOs on consoles. Unless Cryptic and Microsoft can reach an agreement over this there may be no STO for Xbox 360.

 

The problem lies in the fact that Cryptic wants CO to be available to Xbox 360 Silver members(non-paying) and Microsoft is standing firm that only Gold members(paying) should have access to any multiplayer content on the Xbox Live service. Unless they can work this out there may be no CO or STO on the Xbox 360.

 

Bren

Could you give me a link to this info please? I am just asking because you can already play FFXI and Phantasy Star online on the 360 with Silver accounts.

I would if I could but sadly I can't remember where I read it. It was attached to an interview with Jack Emmert about Champions just after it released. I don't think Jack actually said that part of it. It was just the interviewer explaining what was going on with the Xbox 360 release of champions at the end of the article. Jack only actually said that they were having difficulties negotiating a payment model with Microsoft over CO. Jack also stated that CO for Xbox 360 was all ready to ship and only Microsoft was standing in their way at this point. That was all he actually stated in the interview part of the article however so take the part you highlighted above however you choose.

Bren

Originally posted by ZerothLaw

Basically, this is a microcosm of the console vs pc argument, which no one wins at either.

Here is the list of assumptions made on both sides, which the other side doesn't share:

• PC audience is more mature
• Consoles are easier to develop for
• Consoles have simpler gameplay
• Consoles have inferior games
• PC games have expensive game requirements
• PC gamers are elitist

Those assumptions are why no agreement can be made. I haven't even read this thread, but I bet these arguments have been used at some point, correct?

The thing is, its hard to argue superiority for either consoles or PCs, because everyone has individual preferences. Some people like having games with 10,000 commands. Others don't. The ones who love uber-amounts of commands consider all games on consoles "crap" simply because of that fact. Fair enough, but really a silly reason to dismiss a game.

That means that they miss out on absolutely fun and brilliant games like Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and Rayman 2: The Great Escape.

So really, can we avoid the name-calling and the flaming please? Without making a compromise on assumptions you've made about Consoles and/or PCs, you will not agree, ever.

/agree

Everyone has their own tastes in games, and the platform that they are presented on. I'm happy to say I enjoy both PC and Console games equally. In my opinion, you simply cannot beat a PC controlled RTS using a keyboard and mouse. Many say this is true of PC FPS games as well, but I actually enjoy an FPS more when using a controller. It all comes down to personal preference.

There is no solid reason why STO couldn't become an enjoyable multiplatform title down the road. If you think about it, there's only been one other true MMO in the past that has crossed the barriers of not 2, but 3 platforms. And it has enjoyed very respectable success for a long amount of time, though dwindling as of late. FFXI. So far thats a 100% success rate for true MMOs that were actually released for PC & Console.

I think it's only natural that MMOGs get a stronger footing in the console market over the next few years. It's practically an untapped 'venue', and a very big one at that. It is worthy to note however, that Bill Roper has been quoted as saying that If/When the 360 CO port arrives, it will be played on a seperate shard system from the PC client. So it looks like the clash of the PC and Console players might not be such a big problem for many people who don't want to experience it, for whatever reason they may have.

I just hope that Cryptic can come to a reasonable agreement with the software giants in play here. I'd like to see STO become a succes, so it will surely grow and evolve with high quality content and new game mechanics over the years. It's in everyone's best interest that enjoys the game. I say the more, the merrier.

I'm okay with it so long as they don't stop making the games for PC as well. That'd be a true kick in the teeth.

This is what all of these types of arguments are about. The death of PC gaming, which has been predicted for a long time and has yet to come to pass.  I doubt we will see it anytime soon but some must believe it to have a continued hatred for consoles.  I remember one post even going so far to say consoles would be dead in a few years. Get a grip folks, console and PC have and will continue to coexist. 

Originally posted by grandpagamer

This is what all of these types of arguments are about. The death of PC gaming, which has been predicted for a long time and has yet to come to pass.  I doubt we will see it anytime soon but some must believe it to have a continued hatred for consoles.  I remember one post even going so far to say consoles would be dead in a few years. Get a grip folks, console and PC have and will continue to coexist. 

I agree 100%. If fact if anything they will merge and become one. Consoles are almost PCs at this point anyways. In the future a console will most likely just be a PC that is stripped down and optimized for gaming. They are almost at that point now.

Bren

Originally posted by ZerothLaw

Guys calm down, before mods have to intervene.

Basically, this is a microcosm of the console vs pc argument, which no one wins at either.

Here is the list of assumptions made on both sides, which the other side doesn't share:

• PC audience is more mature
• Consoles are easier to develop for
• Consoles have simpler gameplay
• Consoles have inferior games
• PC games have expensive game requirements
• PC gamers are elitist

Those assumptions are why no agreement can be made. I haven't even read this thread, but I bet these arguments have been used at some point, correct?

The thing is, its hard to argue superiority for either consoles or PCs, because everyone has individual preferences. Some people like having games with 10,000 commands. Others don't. The ones who love uber-amounts of commands consider all games on consoles "crap" simply because of that fact. Fair enough, but really a silly reason to dismiss a game.

That means that they miss out on absolutely fun and brilliant games like Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and Rayman 2: The Great Escape.

So really, can we avoid the name-calling and the flaming please? Without making a compromise on assumptions you've made about Consoles and/or PCs, you will not agree, ever.

I agree

I am not a console fanboy I am a gamer! if a game comes out that I want to play it doesnt matter what platform its on ill play it, If I dont have the system Ill go buy it. What urks me is when a "PC elitist" comes and starts spewing feces, on how inferior consoles are in one way or another. I am well aware that good PC can run games on a higher setting. Then there are the inferior control arguments. Keyboards/mouse does have more buttons and options than a controller, but that by no means that a games controlls will have to be dumbed down.  The UI design just has to be slightly different from the norm.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by grandpagamer

This is what all of these types of arguments are about. The death of PC gaming, which has been predicted for a long time and has yet to come to pass.  I doubt we will see it anytime soon but some must believe it to have a continued hatred for consoles.  I remember one post even going so far to say consoles would be dead in a few years. Get a grip folks, console and PC have and will continue to coexist. 

I agree 100%. If fact if anything they will merge and become one. Consoles are almost PCs at this point anyways. In the future a console will most likely just be a PC that is stripped down and optimized for gaming. They are almost at that point now.

 

Bren

I am pretty sure were already in the future then, PS3 is a small computer. It has a processor, I am not sure how its video card works, It has an HDD (which you can upgrade), can use keyboard and mouse. If you dont like sonys OS you can put linux on it. Hell you can bring up any website you want. So IMO its a stripped down PC optimized for gaming. I would be willing to bet that the next next gen consoles will take it further and allow you to upgrade more componets than just the HDD. Which then begs the question do you have a console, or a gaming computer?

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by grandpagamer

This is what all of these types of arguments are about. The death of PC gaming, which has been predicted for a long time and has yet to come to pass.  I doubt we will see it anytime soon but some must believe it to have a continued hatred for consoles.  I remember one post even going so far to say consoles would be dead in a few years. Get a grip folks, console and PC have and will continue to coexist. 

I agree 100%. If fact if anything they will merge and become one. Consoles are almost PCs at this point anyways. In the future a console will most likely just be a PC that is stripped down and optimized for gaming. They are almost at that point now.

 

Bren

 

I am pretty sure were already in the future then, PS3 is a small computer. It has a processor, I am not sure how its video card works, It has an HDD (which you can upgrade), can use keyboard and mouse. If you dont like sonys OS you can put linux on it. Hell you can bring up any website you want. So IMO its a stripped down PC optimized for gaming. I would be willing to bet that the next next gen consoles will take it further and allow you to upgrade more componets than just the HDD. Which then begs the question do you have a console, or a gaming computer?

The Xbox 360 is the almost the same. Like I said they are almost there all that they need to really make the jump is cross platform compatibility. That should come in the next few generations of consoles. When I can buy one game(Just one disc I mean) that can be played on PC or Gaming Console without any porting needed we will be there.

Bren

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by grandpagamer

This is what all of these types of arguments are about. The death of PC gaming, which has been predicted for a long time and has yet to come to pass.  I doubt we will see it anytime soon but some must believe it to have a continued hatred for consoles.  I remember one post even going so far to say consoles would be dead in a few years. Get a grip folks, console and PC have and will continue to coexist. 

I agree 100%. If fact if anything they will merge and become one. Consoles are almost PCs at this point anyways. In the future a console will most likely just be a PC that is stripped down and optimized for gaming. They are almost at that point now.

 

Bren

 

I am pretty sure were already in the future then, PS3 is a small computer. It has a processor, I am not sure how its video card works, It has an HDD (which you can upgrade), can use keyboard and mouse. If you dont like sonys OS you can put linux on it. Hell you can bring up any website you want. So IMO its a stripped down PC optimized for gaming. I would be willing to bet that the next next gen consoles will take it further and allow you to upgrade more componets than just the HDD. Which then begs the question do you have a console, or a gaming computer?

The Xbox 360 is the almost the same. Like I said they are almost there all that they need to really make the jump is cross platform compatibility. That should come in the next few generations of consoles. When I can buy one game(Just one disc I mean) that can be played on PC or Gaming Console without any porting needed we will be there.

 

Bren

PC and which console? I can see SOE making a game that can play on whatever the current playstation might be and a PC but i cannot see them allowing it to be played on Xbox or Wii. Same with microsoft. Maybe Xbox and PC but what about Sony and Nintendo? I see a lot of legalities and greed standing in the way of such a thing although it would be good for gamers.

I am glad everyone is trying to keep it civil, please do and yes I am always around including in this title as if it isn't obvious I am going to be playing this particular one. We the staff rarley comment on games as we try to stay netural in our feelings and thoughts as we are a company that represent the community and industry as a whole and try to not show sides. So with the following disclosure, these are my personal thoughts and opinions and in no way reflect or related to MMORPG.COM or it's affliates.

Now that, that is out of the way.... Great conversation and discussion/argument. I get both sides to be honest and play both, however controls I think are the issue here and to make a game more controller friendly for a console is why I think pc gamers have this argument.

If the game is designed well thou, I believe it can be successful in both platforms, it just shows how passionate everyone is here on this particular title and if you ask me, that's great to have a community wanting that "perfect game", being a fan of star trek and all games related, we definitely are over due for a title that actually isn't broken huh? :)

Looking forward to the game non the less.

Guardious