1 . History. Warcraft was already a blockbuster hit worldwide way before WOW came out. No Star wars game today has sold as much as Warcraft and as for series KOTOR Series is dwarfed in number compared to Warcraft Series in sales and illegal download.
2. Universal Appeal in the proper demographics and appropriate genres. StarWars is well know in western culture and has many Outlets in terms of material, movies, cartoons, books, games, comics, etc. But this mass appeal cannot be directly applied to game sales alone. StarWars fan don't all want to play video games. So if you have 100 million fans worldwide only a fraction of that maybe 1-5% would want to play a StarWars video game. On the other hand when you have 20 million people playing your game world wide and you bring out another game associated to that title. You have a good base of video GAMERS who might fork out the cash to play.
3. Fanboy fantasies, Wow fanboys get over yourselves, SW fanboys get over yourselves, Both IP's are good in their own right just that fact that Bioware and SW are in the same sentence is good news all around for the game and everyone knows this. Unless you honestly have some kind of grievance against Bioware and dislike their game designs. We can all relax , focus on more important aspects of the game itself and it's content then whether it is a WOW killer or not.

StarWars all the way baby!!!

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

I really don't give a damn which is better. Aslong as ToR provides me a polished fun experience then i'm more then happy.

GREED U my friend are on the money!! As long as it is fun i will have more then enough subs and continue for a long time. Providing endless amount of entertainment

As long as SWTOR can deliver most of what they are promising then I will unsub & uninstall WoW, never to return again.  I personally think WoW has run its course.  The game has become so diluted with the subpar (both gamers and content) that it is more frustrating then fulfilling now.  To me SWTOR represents the fresh air I've been craving.  A new game in a different genre that I can start on the ground floor.  I'm really looking forward to just being a noob again and being able to feel my way around to find my way through the Star Wars Universe BioWare is creating. 

I could care less about whether SWTOR can take the market lead.  Honestly I hope they don't.  I hope story is enough deterrent for the gimme everything now, nerf everyone but me, all classes have to be balanced, holy trinity rules, carry me through content, whining gamers to stear clear.

Originally posted by franksalbe 

1 . History. Warcraft was already a blockbuster hit worldwide way before WOW came out. No Star wars game today has sold as much as Warcraft and as for series KOTOR Series is dwarfed in number compared to Warcraft Series in sales and illegal download.

Star Wars games (plural) have definitely sold more copies than Warcraft. There have been gazillions of them and some of them have been great (like KOTOR).

2. Universal Appeal in the proper demographics and appropriate genres. StarWars is well know in western culture and has many Outlets in terms of material, movies, cartoons, books, games, comics, etc. But this mass appeal cannot be directly applied to game sales alone. StarWars fan don't all want to play video games. So if you have 100 million fans worldwide only a fraction of that maybe 1-5% would want to play a StarWars video game. On the other hand when you have 20 million people playing your game world wide and you bring out another game associated to that title. You have a good base of video GAMERS who might fork out the cash to play.

You are right that Star Wars fans don't ALL fall in the the video game demographic, but there are tons of them that do. There have been more Star Wars games than any other IP of video games in history. Many of those games have loyal fanbases who would love to try other Star Wars games. And then there are the Bioware fans. Bioware has made many great games and has a loyal fanbase of its own. I think that group + the Star Wars game fan group may even surpass the Blizzard peeps.

3. Fanboy fantasies, Wow fanboys get over yourselves, SW fanboys get over yourselves, Both IP's are good in their own right just that fact that Bioware and SW are in the same sentence is good news all around for the game and everyone knows this. Unless you honestly have some kind of grievance against Bioware and dislike their game designs. We can all relax , focus on more important aspects of the game itself and it's content then whether it is a WOW killer or not.

 I agree with you here. Both IPs have a lot to offer. 

StarWars all the way baby!!!

And here as well... 

Ultimately, I don't agree with your assertion that the game could never overtake WOW. Certainly it won't at first, but there is no other game or company around that I know of with as much of a chance to do it. Only time will tell...

Originally posted by Malagen

Originally posted by franksalbe 

1 . History. Warcraft was already a blockbuster hit worldwide way before WOW came out. No Star wars game today has sold as much as Warcraft and as for series KOTOR Series is dwarfed in number compared to Warcraft Series in sales and illegal download.

Star Wars games (plural) have definitely sold more copies than Warcraft. There have been gazillions of them and some of them have been great (like KOTOR).

2. Universal Appeal in the proper demographics and appropriate genres. StarWars is well know in western culture and has many Outlets in terms of material, movies, cartoons, books, games, comics, etc. But this mass appeal cannot be directly applied to game sales alone. StarWars fan don't all want to play video games. So if you have 100 million fans worldwide only a fraction of that maybe 1-5% would want to play a StarWars video game. On the other hand when you have 20 million people playing your game world wide and you bring out another game associated to that title. You have a good base of video GAMERS who might fork out the cash to play.

You are right that Star Wars fans don't ALL fall in the the video game demographic, but there are tons of them that do. There have been more Star Wars games than any other IP of video games in history. Many of those games have loyal fanbases who would love to try other Star Wars games. And then there are the Bioware fans. Bioware has made many great games and has a loyal fanbase of its own. I think that group + the Star Wars game fan group may even surpass the Blizzard peeps.

3. Fanboy fantasies, Wow fanboys get over yourselves, SW fanboys get over yourselves, Both IP's are good in their own right just that fact that Bioware and SW are in the same sentence is good news all around for the game and everyone knows this. Unless you honestly have some kind of grievance against Bioware and dislike their game designs. We can all relax , focus on more important aspects of the game itself and it's content then whether it is a WOW killer or not.

 I agree with you here. Both IPs have a lot to offer. 

StarWars all the way baby!!!

And here as well... 

 

Ultimately, I don't agree with your assertion that the game could never overtake WOW. Certainly it won't at first, but there is no other game or company around that I know of with as much of a chance to do it. Only time will tell...

You stole my green coloring, you bastard.

Originally posted by greed0104

You stole my green coloring, you bastard.

MUAHAHAHA

Originally posted by Malagen

Originally posted by franksalbe 

1 . History. Warcraft was already a blockbuster hit worldwide way before WOW came out. No Star wars game today has sold as much as Warcraft and as for series KOTOR Series is dwarfed in number compared to Warcraft Series in sales and illegal download.

Star Wars games (plural) have definitely sold more copies than Warcraft. There have been gazillions of them and some of them have been great (like KOTOR).

2. Universal Appeal in the proper demographics and appropriate genres. StarWars is well know in western culture and has many Outlets in terms of material, movies, cartoons, books, games, comics, etc. But this mass appeal cannot be directly applied to game sales alone. StarWars fan don't all want to play video games. So if you have 100 million fans worldwide only a fraction of that maybe 1-5% would want to play a StarWars video game. On the other hand when you have 20 million people playing your game world wide and you bring out another game associated to that title. You have a good base of video GAMERS who might fork out the cash to play.

You are right that Star Wars fans don't ALL fall in the the video game demographic, but there are tons of them that do. There have been more Star Wars games than any other IP of video games in history. Many of those games have loyal fanbases who would love to try other Star Wars games. And then there are the Bioware fans. Bioware has made many great games and has a loyal fanbase of its own. I think that group + the Star Wars game fan group may even surpass the Blizzard peeps.

3. Fanboy fantasies, Wow fanboys get over yourselves, SW fanboys get over yourselves, Both IP's are good in their own right just that fact that Bioware and SW are in the same sentence is good news all around for the game and everyone knows this. Unless you honestly have some kind of grievance against Bioware and dislike their game designs. We can all relax , focus on more important aspects of the game itself and it's content then whether it is a WOW killer or not.

 I agree with you here. Both IPs have a lot to offer. 

StarWars all the way baby!!!

And here as well... 

 

Ultimately, I don't agree with your assertion that the game could never overtake WOW. Certainly it won't at first, but there is no other game or company around that I know of with as much of a chance to do it. Only time will tell...

I'm also hoping it doesn't make it to WoW popularity... for some reason everone thinks that becoming the top at something suddenly makes it better then everything else.  Like because Microsoft is the top in sales of its operating system that it makes it so much better then Linux or Mac.  Personally I love windows for some things, but I prefer linux for others.  

Anyways,  you also can't really count star wars games as being less popular then warcraft....  Many star wars games span across a number of platforms and systems,  some of which have done remarkably such as the battlefront series which I still play on my 360.  Even for how buggy and seemingly mediocre SWG seemed it still actually had a decent playerbase...  I'm very excited to see what developers that use more then a quarter of their brain will do with it.

Like already stated, you really don't want TOR to attain the popularity of WoW.

Originally posted by skeaser

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi.  You DO know that something isn't science fiction simply because it has spaceships and technology in it?  

Science has never been important to the story of Star Wars.  It is a "Space Fantasy", based on the only "space opera" serials that kids grew up on in the good ol' days.  Even Lucas says that his films are simply a Fantasy set in space.  

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by skeaser

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

 

Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi.  You DO know that something isn't science fiction simply because it has spaceships and technology in it?  

Science has never been important to the story of Star Wars.  It is a "Space Fantasy", based on the only "space opera" serials that kids grew up on in the good ol' days.  Even Lucas says that his films are simply a Fantasy set in space.  

You need to adopt in your definition of what star wars is, a part of science fiction because the only thing fantasy about starwars is the force, just sayin be open minded as you are not entirely correct reguardless of what Lucas said.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by skeaser

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

 

Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi.  You DO know that something isn't science fiction simply because it has spaceships and technology in it?  

Science has never been important to the story of Star Wars.  It is a "Space Fantasy", based on the only "space opera" serials that kids grew up on in the good ol' days.  Even Lucas says that his films are simply a Fantasy set in space.  

 

You need to adopt in your definition of what star wars is, a part of science fiction because the only thing fantasy about starwars is the force, just sayin be open minded as you are not entirely correct reguardless of what Lucas said.

No, it's not science fiction.  Period.  It has no scientific themes.  Science takes a back seat in star wars. Much more prominent is the force, which is a mystical energy, hence fantasy.

Star Wars takes absolutely no time to explain how anything works. There is no techno-bable about lightspeed or laser guns, they are just there. The only thing it dwells on is this strange magical energy field that the characters can use to become powerful beyond belief.

It is a classic fantasy story, the setting is simply in space.  

Star Wars is a space opera; essentially a fantasy set in space.

People who think something is science fiction just because there are flying ships and laser guns make me headpalm.

Science fiction is a genre of fiction. It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically-established or scientifically-postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).

I would actually argue that the primary difference between Science Fiction and Space Fantasy is that true Science Fiction is completely lacking in any supernatural phenomenon.  But let's ignore that, and focus on this: Even George Lucas has said that he considered Star Wars to be "Space Fantasy" not Science Fiction. You people are disagreeing with the creator.

Here it is from the man himself:

"“What finally emerged through the many drafts of the script has obviously been influenced by science fiction and action adventure I’ve read and seen. And I’ve seen a lot of it. I’m trying to make a classic sort of genre picture, a classic space fantasy in which all the influences are working together. There are certain traditional aspects of the genre I wanted to keep and help perpetuate in Star Wars. I hope it is a big success and a lot of people do space fantasy adventure movies because I want to go and see them.”

THX 1138 differs as much from Star Wars as it does from American Graffiti. THX 1138 is a science fiction film, as opposed to the space fantasy film that Star Wars is."

Originally posted by franksalbe

 

1 . History. Warcraft was already a blockbuster hit worldwide way before WOW came out. No Star wars game today has sold as much as Warcraft and as for series KOTOR Series is dwarfed in number compared to Warcraft Series in sales and illegal download.
2. Universal Appeal in the proper demographics and appropriate genres. StarWars is well know in western culture and has many Outlets in terms of material, movies, cartoons, books, games, comics, etc. But this mass appeal cannot be directly applied to game sales alone. StarWars fan don't all want to play video games. So if you have 100 million fans worldwide only a fraction of that maybe 1-5% would want to play a StarWars video game. On the other hand when you have 20 million people playing your game world wide and you bring out another game associated to that title. You have a good base of video GAMERS who might fork out the cash to play.
3. Fanboy fantasies, Wow fanboys get over yourselves, SW fanboys get over yourselves, Both IP's are good in their own right just that fact that Bioware and SW are in the same sentence is good news all around for the game and everyone knows this. Unless you honestly have some kind of grievance against Bioware and dislike their game designs. We can all relax , focus on more important aspects of the game itself and it's content then whether it is a WOW killer or not.

 

StarWars all the way baby!!!

 

 

 

Warcraft (the RTS) never had 20 million different souls playing it, sorry.  I hate when people just make up random numbers.

Originally posted by Malagen

Originally posted by greed0104

You stole my green coloring, you bastard.

 

MUAHAHAHA

The world is not merely black and white but many shades of green...

Count me along with the others who could care less if this game overtakes WOW. I will disagree with the OP argument that it can't be done. We have no idea how stable this game will be, we have no idea if the launch will be successful and we have no idea if the game connects to a broad audience.

If Bioware can get it right they will have a major advantage.

The fact is that most players are just "burnt out" on WoW. (Blizzard knows this and I'll bet you anything in the next year we will hear an announcement for WoW 2)

It's just going to be difficult to meet the high level of polish that WoW brings to the table. Although most people will allow a certain amount of flaws in a new game; new MMO companies have to try and raise the bar on the level of development that the game has on release day. Prior to WoW, you could get away with a lot of bugs, and very little content..but that's just not going to cut it anymore.

That's what happens when the bar is raised.

..BUT, if Bioware get it right...and Im mean really right...it will take a huge bite out of WoW, and shut down a lot of MMO's in business that really shouldn't be in business.

Originally posted by greed0104

I really don't give a damn which is better. Aslong as ToR provides me a polished fun experience then i'm more then happy.

While I'm against everything WoW has become and now stands for, I have to agree that all I want from ToR is great MMO from start to finish. Will the game have hiccups from time to time? Answering a question with another question, what MMO doesn't? Will BioWare turn into the money hungry monster that mirrors Blizz? I certainly hope not and it still remains to be seen.

The most important question is this:
Is BioWare the greatest RPG developer to ever walk on water??? Being that they're the ONLY developer to ever walk on water, I hear a resounding YES from the mouths of the masses!!!

BioWare, we salute you.

Star Trek is better then star wars anyway :)  SW is so emo and it's a chick flick.

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Originally posted by skeaser

Most importantly.

One is Sci-Fi one is High Fantasy.

 

Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi.  You DO know that something isn't science fiction simply because it has spaceships and technology in it?  

Science has never been important to the story of Star Wars.  It is a "Space Fantasy", based on the only "space opera" serials that kids grew up on in the good ol' days.  Even Lucas says that his films are simply a Fantasy set in space.  

 

You need to adopt in your definition of what star wars is, a part of science fiction because the only thing fantasy about starwars is the force, just sayin be open minded as you are not entirely correct reguardless of what Lucas s

No, it's not science fiction.  Period.  It has no scientific themes.  Science takes a back seat in star wars. Much more prominent is the force, which is a mystical energy, hence fantasy.

Star Wars takes absolutely no time to explain how anything works. There is no techno-bable about lightspeed or laser guns, they are just there. The only thing it dwells on is this strange magical energy field that the characters can use to become powerful beyond belief.

It is a classic fantasy story, the setting is simply in space.  

Star Wars is a space opera; essentially a fantasy set in space.

People who think something is science fiction just because there are flying ships and laser guns make me headpalm.

Science fiction is a genre of fiction. It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically-established or scientifically-postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).

I would actually argue that the primary difference between Science Fiction and Space Fantasy is that true Science Fiction is completely lacking in any supernatural phenomenon.  But let's ignore that, and focus on this: Even George Lucas has said that he considered Star Wars to be "Space Fantasy" not Science Fiction. You people are disagreeing with the creator.

Here it is from the man himself:

"“What finally emerged through the many drafts of the script has obviously been influenced by science fiction and action adventure I’ve read and seen. And I’ve seen a lot of it. I’m trying to make a classic sort of genre picture, a classic space fantasy in which all the influences are working together. There are certain traditional aspects of the genre I wanted to keep and help perpetuate in Star Wars. I hope it is a big success and a lot of people do space fantasy adventure movies because I want to go and see them.”

THX 1138 differs as much from Star Wars as it does from American Graffiti. THX 1138 is a science fiction film, as opposed to the space fantasy film that Star Wars is."

 

 

 

 

People who argue semantics of story genres make me want to "headpalm".

Starting off, I'd like to inform you that Space Fantasy was coined by George Lucas. In no way does this designate Star Wars as a "space fantasy". If you even READ what Lucas had said, he explained that it was a combination of influences, thus making it part sci-fi, part action adventure, renaming it space fantasy.

Secondly, the term science fiction has many definitive variations, ranging from "a literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background" to what you had mentioned above. Keep in mind that in order to classify something as science fiction, you only need a few elements to do so. For instance, the fact that Star Wars even DISCUSSES space is scientific fiction. There are MANY MANY elements of the Star Wars lore that go hand-in-hand with the science fiction theme.

The fact is that the term sci-fi is hardly subject to one definition but a limitless array that focus on what? The unknown. Much of what is known as "fringe" science is based solely on fantasy aspects. Everything from time travel to teleportation and the like were once classified as fantasy, then science fiction, and are now referred to as "fringe" science. However, they can easily be referenced back to fantasy at any given time. It is a matter of opinion. Nothing more.

You may call a tomato a fruit, but others will refer to it as a vegetable. Will there be controversy there? Yes. Is it necessary? Not unless it reaches a viable solution.

Simply arguing terminology hardly justifies as a mature and intellectual conversation. Instead, perhaps you would enjoy coloring within the lines of the 50 page coloring book sitting in front of you rather than praddling on about the dynamics of terminologies and their definitive purposes.

I mean, you could, save you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. I propose that we move on from this, seeing as the term "science fiction" isn't really applicable under any circumstances. Science is based on theory, yet theory isn't technically tangible or even visible (equations and the like aside), thus Science IS fiction and redundant when referred to as such.