Originally posted by Peregrine2

Originally posted by CyanSword

Playing devils advocate though, isnt the greatest success (WoW) not innovative at all? They did what Blizzard do best, take a genre and just refine it evolution not revolution. No major bells and whistles (espcially at launch) just a good solid, and most importantly polished game.

Now games like LOTRO failing to match (as it was also solid and polished) show that it isn't that alone, but I would not consider Blizzard to be innovators all that much, they just make smart choices about the 'best bits' of a genre and make it solo friendly in a great art style (if it is your type of thing), but there wasnt a single feature in WoW at launch that hadn't been done elsewhere.

So that would tend to against the theory that innovators are the most successful. The innovators in MMOs either tend to not go far enough (AoC - or lack polish in addition in their case) or be too niche even if they are well made to really make a mainstream mark (EVE) or just maybe not so good (Darkfall)

so I am not sure that MMOs are a genre that has allowed innovation to succeed at all yet

 

Well if you consider when WoW came out, I'd say it innovated a lot in terms of casual gameplay, and an approachable game that even non-gamers could get into. The games that existed before WoW were usually much less PVE/quest driven. It also was the first game to really have the cartoon style of graphics that have become popular as well.

Perhaps, but I'd argue they took the art style from their own games, so that wasn't an innovation, and that was kind of my point they didn't revolutionise anything and innovate, they just refined and made better suited to the mass market (like making it more casual and solo friendly), so I would still argue that WoW didn't really have any innovative features or gameplay when it launched.

granted though some of its dungeon play later on did very much verge on being innovative for the genre, but at launch I am not sure I would personally say they were innovative really.

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Originally posted by riceae02
Thought it came out already? Didn't they name it  Warhammer?

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Right on the spot.

WAR was their sequal to DAOC, just watered down and they got lazy and only made two factions.

As long as mythic is owned by EA I won't play any game they make.

I think WoW pulled off a  feat that made a great substitute for innovation - they introduced the genre to millions of new players - to those millions, it might as well have been innovation, because it was totally new and different to them.  That  is something no other dev can even hope to accomplish.  Least not until some breakthrough technology comes along and replaces primetime TV with an MMO that appeals to that market.  Something I shudder to even think about.

Blizzard also refined the formula so well, to such a degree of polish and professionalism, that it was almost like innovation.  An MMO that didn't make you want to pull your hair out at every turn?  What will they think of next?  To this day, most MMOs can't compete, simply because they're so shoddy in comparison.

To answer the original question, No.

Dark Age players are famous for crying for something, getting it and then crying for the old thing back.  I'm an ex Dark Age player and I know a lot of ex Dark Age players and to a man we all agree that Dark Age in it's glory days was good, but none of us are coming back for DAoC 2 or Origins or anything like it.  Why?  Because we know it won't be the same and we've moved on.  If they were going to do a sequel they should have done it when they had the player base to transfer to it. 

Dark Age is the ghost of MMO past and people who think that it can be a force in today's MMO industry are just whistling past the graveyard.  Out of respect for what DAoC was EAMythic should just pull the plugs out of the walls and let the ghosts of DAoC rest in peace.

No

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Originally posted by gnomechef
If Mythic were to ressurect Dark age of Camelot

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"I'm not dead yet. I'm getting better."

Originally posted by galad2003

 

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Originally posted by riceae02
Thought it came out already? Didn't they name it  Warhammer?

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Right on the spot.

WAR was their sequal to DAOC, just watered down and they got lazy and only made two factions.

As long as mythic is owned by EA I won't play any game they make.

That's like calling EQ2 a sequel to EQ1, even though it's a completely different game and plays nothing like the first.  WAR is the same deal.  In an effort to mass appeal and take slices off the WoW pie, they've managed to make RvR suck worse than DAOC's, while their PvE comes nothing close to what WoW can offer.  So what they ended up having is a half/half game that ends up not catering to the people they were hoping to attract.

It's really too bad, they could've done WAR better.  I mean the same company that made DAOC came out with the RvR design of WAR?  The idea of having experience from a successful title is to know how to improve on it, not to make it worse.  Mark Jacobs needs to get some old Mythic team together, buy back the IP rights to "Dark Ages of Camelot", and make a true sequel that players want.  A 3 realm design with primary focus on RvR, both mass RvR and single group RvR.

Originally posted by galad2003

 

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Originally posted by riceae02
Thought it came out already? Didn't they name it  Warhammer?

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Right on the spot.

WAR was their sequal to DAOC, just watered down and they got lazy and only made two factions.

As long as mythic is owned by EA I won't play any game they make.

/second

Honestly when Warhammer was first announced I was sad because I knew it meant very little chance of seeing DAOC 2. Camelot was incredible for it's day, the PvP is still my favorite of all time. If they were to make DAOC 2 I would most definitely play it.

Originally posted by gnomechef

Ok simple question after reading Garret Fuller's column, if Mythic were to ressurect Dark age of Camelot and make it bigger and better, update graphics, etc. - Would you play it???

For me its a yes.

I would play it again in a Second.

DAoC was one of the best games out there. If people still played. I would go back to it

Originally posted by LynxJSA

I'd play it. The main thing i didn'tlike about DAoC when I played (release) was the grind. I seriously doubt they would do 2.0 as a grindfest so it would definitely be something I'd be interested in.

The best thing I liked about DAoC was the good grouping game in PvE. It made the PvP more fun since both games were good, and you got to know players as you worked your way up to the PvP.

However, I agree that the grind was to much. It was to top heavy with the last 5 or 10 levels just taking way to long. Shorten the grind curve, and ad more features like Darkness Falls, upgraded graphics, and it's a hit.

I would of played it, but now that they've made WAR I see they've forgotten how to make games. So I wouldn't play another mythic release unless it had been out for a while, had great reviews and ratings and was onto a free trial.

 4 days playtime the last 2 week and i hit lvl 49 with both a Sorc and a cleric as bb

i love back in time the rvr its still the best out there no game come even close to 3 faction rvr

so a daoc 2  ofc  i will love to see it , but can´t realy see how ?

atm i have been in Aion all 6 beta and the so called opbeta and i looking forward to see what it got at max lvl rvr , so far i like it alot

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by LynxJSA

I'd play it. The main thing i didn'tlike about DAoC when I played (release) was the grind. I seriously doubt they would do 2.0 as a grindfest so it would definitely be something I'd be interested in.

 

The best thing I liked about DAoC was the good grouping game in PvE. It made the PvP more fun since both games were good, and you got to know players as you worked your way up to the PvP.

 

However, I agree that the grind was to much. It was to top heavy with the last 5 or 10 levels just taking way to long. Shorten the grind curve, and ad more features like Darkness Falls, upgraded graphics, and it's a hit.

First let me say as long as its from the TA time frame or earlier then yes. I tryed to go back to it some time ageo and some jackass took a big rubber stamp and hit with with WoW. you can now solo like mad no reason to group and well I'll stop before I rant but if they took the clasic or up to the TA (trials of atlantas) and just updated the graphics . . . hell even as is I would pay $60 + $15 a month if you could give me a decfent (dont have to be huge) player population as the game stood with the TA expansion.

I would like to see the necro reworkded a bit I do think he hurt the game some. I have said it several times that if they simply updated the rendering engine, freshened up the textures and animations they could ship the thing as a new current gen MMO its just that good of a game.

I would play DAoC right now if there were enough people to have regular massive RvR battles. I have some complaints with the game, but most of them aren't that hard to fix.

I loved the limited range on buffs so buff bots weren't needed. Do away with ToA gear and powers. All the best gear should be crafted and the best drops should be items for crafting. The need for crafted gear in DAoC was good as it was, but the crafting system itself was pretty tedious and could have used a serious overhaul. Tone down realm rank powers. Make massive RvR at least as rewarding as 8v8.

I think that covers most of my problems with DAoC as it was when I last played. None would be that hard to fix, but my guess is the designers would try to reinvent the wheel and end up with something that just wouldn't be fun.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by LynxJSA

I'd play it. The main thing i didn'tlike about DAoC when I played (release) was the grind. I seriously doubt they would do 2.0 as a grindfest so it would definitely be something I'd be interested in.

 

The best thing I liked about DAoC was the good grouping game in PvE. It made the PvP more fun since both games were good, and you got to know players as you worked your way up to the PvP.

 

However, I agree that the grind was to much. It was to top heavy with the last 5 or 10 levels just taking way to long. Shorten the grind curve, and ad more features like Darkness Falls, upgraded graphics, and it's a hit.

It's no longer a grind.  I'm currently playing again (after being gone since ToA release) and I'm having a blast.  I dinged my first 50 since coming back after only a few days (casual play).  

The PvE game is second to none.  And it wouldn't take many more regular players to make RvR a hoot again.

As I said, I'm having a blast.  I find myself logging out of Aion OB and going back. 

To answer the original question, I would definately play DAoC 2.  No question.  DAoC in its current form only needs a little more polish on its new systems and a little advertising.. bam.. awesome.

Acidon

Which article? Could we please get a link to it? Thanks.

Originally posted by Mardy

Originally posted by neonwire

I reckon all the talented members of staff that originally worked on DAoC have now left the company. Hopefully though another more talented games company might take inspiration from DAoC and make a game that could pass for its sequel.

 

Those that left EA Mythic includes Mark Jacobs.  I can only hope Mark will get a new company together with their previous talents, and buy back the rights to DAOC's IP so they can make a sequel to it.  They'll have to accept a smaller company, smaller game.  But with how large companies & large game like WAR tanking, I don't see how smaller could be bad.

MJ was the reason WAR tanked. He didnt have Matt Firor at his side to fix things this time.

As far as DAoC2... Not with Mythic at the helm. Crappy PvE with overpowerd RAs and no class balance.. No thanks.

Originally posted by Acidon

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

The best thing I liked about DAoC was the good grouping game in PvE. It made the PvP more fun since both games were good, and you got to know players as you worked your way up to the PvP.

 

However, I agree that the grind was to much. It was to top heavy with the last 5 or 10 levels just taking way to long. Shorten the grind curve, and ad more features like Darkness Falls, upgraded graphics, and it's a hit.

 

It's no longer a grind.  I'm currently playing again (after being gone since ToA release) and I'm having a blast.  I dinged my first 50 since coming back after only a few days (casual play).  

The PvE game is second to none.  And it wouldn't take many more regular players to make RvR a hoot again.

The grind was reduced so much because the good grouping PvE game that was part DAOC's success was long dead.  Getting to 50 in a few days of casual play is absurd, and only makes sense in an geriatric MMO on life support.  RvR was great, but I don't think it would have been all that popular without the solid PvE game DAOC used to have.

I thought they hit the perfect levelgrind medium when Darkness Falls was at its peak of popularity, and people were fighting for keeps so that they could do High Lord raids, which made getting from 40 to 50 *much* easier.

Then TOA came out, and it all went downhill from there.  They could have fixed it if they'd acted quickly, but at that point, their mismanagement issues were starting to seriously show.  Mythic couldn't seem to decide what direction they wanted DAOC to go in, and took forever to even start making desperately needed changes.  Most players  were long gone by the time they did anything right, but everything they did right was undermined by all the new things they were doing wrong at the same time, anyhow.

Without a doubt would play DAOC2 my DAOC account expires tomorrow :( Only because I can't pay it lol because I got two EVE accounts going....

My first 50 dinged 50 before DF even hit and man it was a damn grind but now you can easily ding 50 before u can even claim a free level...there is still a couple classes id like to have 50's in but after 15 of them im done leveling anymore toons. I will prob check back into DAOC soon to se how Ywain is.