http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-star-wars/55340

He says "you need to feel like a Star Wars hero from the beginning".

All I can thing was what ever happened to growing into the Hero? If everyone starts off the hero then noone feels special and whocares about your character? What I loved about SWG was gaining Jedi made me feel special so why do people want everything now when they just feel like part of the crowd?

I guess they are assuming most players are just power gamers who are going to grind through to the end in a few weeks anyway so they might as well start you out powerful. Doesn't seem to me to be many players who are interested in  doing anything but getting to max level and doing the same raid 5 nights a week.

Because the majority of human beings today are in the "me, me, me, I want it right now and don't want to have to do anything but show up for it" mentality?

I remember playing pop warner football and only the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place teams got trophies. Now even the last place team gets a participation trophy. That type of thinking has permeated all facets of society and in my opinion has fostered a heavy sense of laziness and entitlement. *shrug*

I hate trolls but whenever I check on the SW-ToR I get this unstopable urge to troll this game to death.

I`ve never been married to any play style and I`ve enjoyed and still do both PVE and PVP as well as Solo and Hardcore raiding type of gameplay for over a decade now but  I can`t stomach how stupidly Solo PVE this game is shaping up to be.

Even an extremely kiddie friendly limonade of a game like LOTRO will look hardcore compared to this crap.

Originally posted by Varny

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-star-wars/55340

He says "you need to feel like a Star Wars hero from the beginning".

 

All I can thing was what ever happened to growing into the Hero? If everyone starts off the hero then noone feels special and whocares about your character? What I loved about SWG was gaining Jedi made me feel special so why do people want everything now when they just feel like part of the crowd?

I absolutely agree.

Luke was no hero until Return of the Jedi. Specifically, the moment he jumped off the plank over the Sarlacc, rose about thirty feet into the air, grabbed his lightsaber using only his mind and then destroed the Jabban crime empire in about ninety seconds. Prior to that he was just a whiny kid who got his arm cut-off because he wouldn't listen to his step-dead, a flying green space-monkey.

Is there an open beta going on I was unaware of? Since it seems you all have played it.

Originally posted by Varny

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-star-wars/55340

He says "you need to feel like a Star Wars hero from the beginning".

 

All I can thing was what ever happened to growing into the Hero? If everyone starts off the hero then noone feels special and whocares about your character? What I loved about SWG was gaining Jedi made me feel special so why do people want everything now when they just feel like part of the crowd?

There was nothing special about jedi in that game. Everyone knew the path and eventually the majority of the combat players were gowing jedi. Now if it had stayed like it was in the beginning with permadeath then sure. But by the end of the CU it wasn't anything special because the majority knew that to compete they had to go jedi. A lot of them also went jedi because they got off pawning everyone else in special forces.

I don't play games to feel special or to stand out in a crowd of pixels. As long as I like my character I could care less what anyone else thinks. Developers learned a long time that long grinds and  hours of work are not what the majority want when playing a game. I play to have fun and long tedious grinds aren't fun. Where did this idea come from anyway to make games a second job?

From what I heard, the original jedi thing was a complete chore to do.

Games like champions, SW:TOR etc. play to the fact that you are powerful and should feel that way.

Quite honestly the "grow" into it mentality doesn't really make any sense from a MMO perspective. You never really become better than your enemies in that sense (many mmos you can do basically the same thing at lvl 1 as level 100, just with more flourish)

I think quite a few people are stuck in the "old school" mentality. Games shouldn't be work or a chore, they should be fun. The sense of accomplishment you gain from doing something shouldn't just be from time put in/mobs killed.

Originally posted by neoterrar

From what I heard, the original jedi thing was a complete chore to do.

Games like champions, SW:TOR etc. play to the fact that you are powerful and should feel that way.

Quite honestly the "grow" into it mentality doesn't really make any sense from a MMO perspective. You never really become better than your enemies in that sense (many mmos you can do basically the same thing at lvl 1 as level 100, just with more flourish)

I think quite a few people are stuck in the "old school" mentality. Games shouldn't be work or a chore, they should be fun. The sense of accomplishment you gain from doing something shouldn't just be from time put in/mobs killed.

You hit the nail right on the head. There is nothing special about killing hundreds of animals just to gain one more skill box or level. I also don't see what is so special about playing an alpha class. Just what is so fun by being more powerful than the rest of the server? I remember so many jedi players who thought they were the shit in PVP but couldn't hang once their "I win" buttons got taken away.

 I get much more satisfaction with finishing a mission by myslef or with a group of people. If people like slaughtering animals then I am sure that the game will have wild areas for them to go and grind.

Originally posted by neoterrar

From what I heard, the original jedi thing was a complete chore to do.

Games like champions, SW:TOR etc. play to the fact that you are powerful and should feel that way.

Quite honestly the "grow" into it mentality doesn't really make any sense from a MMO perspective. You never really become better than your enemies in that sense (many mmos you can do basically the same thing at lvl 1 as level 100, just with more flourish)

I think quite a few people are stuck in the "old school" mentality. Games shouldn't be work or a chore, they should be fun. The sense of accomplishment you gain from doing something shouldn't just be from time put in/mobs killed.

Yet everytime I try one of the mmo out there I feel like working. We have a surely different definition of fun.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by neoterrar

From what I heard, the original jedi thing was a complete chore to do.

Games like champions, SW:TOR etc. play to the fact that you are powerful and should feel that way.

Quite honestly the "grow" into it mentality doesn't really make any sense from a MMO perspective. You never really become better than your enemies in that sense (many mmos you can do basically the same thing at lvl 1 as level 100, just with more flourish)

I think quite a few people are stuck in the "old school" mentality. Games shouldn't be work or a chore, they should be fun. The sense of accomplishment you gain from doing something shouldn't just be from time put in/mobs killed.

 

You hit the nail right on the head. There is nothing special about killing hundreds of animals just to gain one more skill box or level. I also don't see what is so special about playing an alpha class. Just what is so fun by being more powerful than the rest of the server? I remember so many jedi players who thought they were the shit in PVP but couldn't hang once their "I win" buttons got taken away.

 I get much more satisfaction with finishing a mission by myslef or with a group of people. If people like slaughtering animals then I am sure that the game will have wild areas for them to go and grind.

Yeah, pre-pub 9 Jedi were the shit, after they did the big Jedi give away was when things went down hill.  And it basicly was because people whined and cried so hard about not everyone can be a Jedi.  Whiners rule the MMO community.  

Yeah, I feel the same. If an MMORPG is telling me who my character is, something is wrong (imo).  *You all don't want to be who you want to be, you want to be who we tell you that you want to be!* is not the kind of game dynamic I look for in an MMO.

Ok ya, lot of people want to be a hero, fine, let them be a hero. But to force everyone to be a hero from the get go takes a lot of the fun out of it for me. In an MMO, its the kind of players who don't want to necessarily be heros, who provide the depth and variety to the game community that makes it more fun for everyone.

I'll wait for a free trial before I actually judge the game as playable for me, but it sounds to me more like a standalone rpg with multiplayer although that doesn't mean it won't be fun.

Originally posted by Varny

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-star-wars/55340

He says "you need to feel like a Star Wars hero from the beginning".

 

I thought it was quite obvious that he was saying this to explain that at level 1, you are fighting other humans instead of bats and boars.  You really didn't understand that?  Or are you just grasping for something to complain about?

And for the other people who are "hating" (that is the title of the thread afterall), you really think you are going to start out as some uber character and not gain abilities and skills as you go along? C'mon, give me a break.

If people don't like this game because its not a sandbox that is fine.  It's your opinion.  But why try to stretch reasons to not like it?  Clearly you already had a preconceived notion to dislike it in the first place.  Surely, you can come up with better reasons than this, can't you?

Originally posted by dhayes68

 

Ok ya, lot of people want to be a hero, fine, let them be a hero. But to force everyone to be a hero from the get go takes a lot of the fun out of it for me. In an MMO, its the kind of players who don't want to necessarily be heros, who provide the depth and variety to the game community that makes it more fun for everyone.

Yeah, cuz whenever I pick up an MMO, I do so with the hopes of becoming an average swordsman or a mediocre mage and nothing more.

Oh, by the way, they aren't forcing anyone to be a hero.  You can choose to be a villain too

Originally posted by Varny

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-star-wars/55340

He says "you need to feel like a Star Wars hero from the beginning".

 

All I can thing was what ever happened to growing into the Hero? If everyone starts off the hero then noone feels special and whocares about your character? What I loved about SWG was gaining Jedi made me feel special so why do people want everything now when they just feel like part of the crowd?

Could have saved the link and the paragraph and just said "One thing I hate is SWTOR isn't SWG 2".

Just because everyone can be a Jedi doesn't mean everyone will and it definately doesn't mean they all of them will be any good.  There are 22 football players on the field but you can always pick out the few that are better than the rest.  Once SWTOR is released the cream will rise to the top just like every other MMO.  How everyone starts out really doesn't matter.

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by dhayes68

 Ok ya, lot of people want to be a hero, fine, let them be a hero. But to force everyone to be a hero from the get go takes a lot of the fun out of it for me. In an MMO, its the kind of players who don't want to necessarily be heros, who provide the depth and variety to the game community that makes it more fun for everyone.

 Yeah, cuz whenever I pick up an MMO, I do so with the hopes of becoming an average swordsman or a mediocre mage and nothing more.

Oh, by the way, they aren't forcing anyone to be a hero.  You can choose to be a villain too 

You probably didn't understand that in the context he wasn't referring to the goodness/badness (hero or villain) of your char, but the scope. That your characater be heroic in power and ability.  L2r

Also I posted, I understand that people like you want to be heroic but other people don't. So the fact that you want to be great swordsman from the get go, doesn't really mean much in this conversation. And more relevant to the conversation at hand, the point isn't that someone wants to become a mediocre swordsman, but, either start out as a poor swordsman and over time develop your character into a heroic swordsman, or even more importantly never be a combatant at all if they wish.  I can tell from your post you obviously wouldn't like that but other people do.

Its about char development, and having that development be as free as possible.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by neoterrar

From what I heard, the original jedi thing was a complete chore to do.

Games like champions, SW:TOR etc. play to the fact that you are powerful and should feel that way.

Quite honestly the "grow" into it mentality doesn't really make any sense from a MMO perspective. You never really become better than your enemies in that sense (many mmos you can do basically the same thing at lvl 1 as level 100, just with more flourish)

I think quite a few people are stuck in the "old school" mentality. Games shouldn't be work or a chore, they should be fun. The sense of accomplishment you gain from doing something shouldn't just be from time put in/mobs killed.

 

You hit the nail right on the head. There is nothing special about killing hundreds of animals just to gain one more skill box or level. I also don't see what is so special about playing an alpha class. Just what is so fun by being more powerful than the rest of the server? I remember so many jedi players who thought they were the shit in PVP but couldn't hang once their "I win" buttons got taken away.

 I get much more satisfaction with finishing a mission by myslef or with a group of people. If people like slaughtering animals then I am sure that the game will have wild areas for them to go and grind.

normally I agree with you kt, however this time I have to add in something..

I agree that slaughtering 100 rats to skill up isn't fun at all, but going around and slaughtering people that have only a fraction of the power you have isn't fun either..  When I saw the video of the capt's quest I was "WTF?"..  The newbie Jedi going around with advanced force choke and lightening.. 2 or 3 hitting mobs left and right while barely taking any damage themself..   I fail to see the challenge and fun in going into a 10 v 1 fight and winning MOST of the time..  

I'd rather be killing a single target mutant rat that accidently pulls a 2nd add which causes me to either die or barely win, then to wipe a whole camp of Silt soilders with my eyes closed..  

Bioware.. YOU FAIL........

Originally posted by Rydeson 

normally I agree with you kt, however this time I have to add in something..

I agree that slaughtering 100 rats to skill up isn't fun at all, but going around and slaughtering people that have only a fraction of the power you have isn't fun either..  When I saw the video of the capt's quest I was "WTF?"..  The newbie Jedi going around with advanced force choke and lightening.. 2 or 3 hitting mobs left and right while barely taking any damage themself..   I fail to see the challenge and fun in going into a 10 v 1 fight and winning MOST of the time..  

I'd rather be killing a single target mutant rat that accidently pulls a 2nd add which causes me to either die or barely win, then to wipe a whole camp of Silt soilders with my eyes closed..  

Bioware.. YOU FAIL........

First of all, you are watching pre-alpha footage. I doubt very much they have really started balancing the game yet. Secondly, they have said that the combat will be fast paced. 

Looking at the few mainstream MMOs:

In Aion, when playing certain classes, I do not lose any HP even when fighting groups of mobs.

In WoW, I really do not lose any HP and have to bandage every 10th mob or so (unless playing a healing char), this is true for most classes.

Lastly, in an IP like this, dying to a mutant rat because you pulled a second one does not sound fun to me. It sounds like you want to hit the memory lane of RPGs of early 90s or MMOs in late 90s. I actually wish they started to put more emphasis on other elements in MMORPGs than combat . The combat in SW:TOR at the moment looks rather typical and very similar to KOTOR in it's pacing. While slightly more involved than the single-mob-killing style ala most currents MMOs. At this stage it does not look that bad or that amazing - just your standard fare.

Originally posted by Rydeson

 

normally I agree with you kt, however this time I have to add in something..

I agree that slaughtering 100 rats to skill up isn't fun at all, but going around and slaughtering people that have only a fraction of the power you have isn't fun either..  When I saw the video of the capt's quest I was "WTF?"..  The newbie Jedi going around with advanced force choke and lightening.. 2 or 3 hitting mobs left and right while barely taking any damage themself..   I fail to see the challenge and fun in going into a 10 v 1 fight and winning MOST of the time..  

I'd rather be killing a single target mutant rat that accidently pulls a 2nd add which causes me to either die or barely win, then to wipe a whole camp of Silt soilders with my eyes closed..  

Bioware.. YOU FAIL........

Look, I know a lot of you guys say you watched the video, but it's pretty clear none of you payed any attention. I know it seems the flashpoint was easy. But if you paid any attention at all there are clues that lead to why.

First off the Sith Warrior was level 10 to be exact

His Bounty Hunter group member was actually higher, 11

The mobs they encountered from the start was low, lowest being level 1.

And highest normal mob I seen was 6.

And the highest mob of all happened to be the Jedi Knight, he was level 8, with what appeared to be wings with XX marks. I'm assuming he is an elite sort of encounter. (boss, etc)

Even the solo videos they was level 4-5 taking on level 1-2 mobs. It was also mentioned in the video that the characters were using "higher level abilities" to demonstrate progression. It's not really clear if he means the abilities they had was meant to be for  a level 15, 20 and so on. Either way its two toons in there early 10s taking on mobs with a 3-10 level difference in the flashpoint.

BioWare does not fail. You fail to listen, or pay any attention. I believe if most of you actually watched it you would have heard Dallas Dickinson say, "Remember, this is a work in progress." In layman's terms, shit changes. GO FIGURE!

Three points.

1. This isn't SWG.
2. This is pre-alpha.
3. If you don't like it, don't play it.