Originally posted by HJFudge

This is one of my worries with this game.

 

I only recently pre-ordered, so i havent yet gotten to try a beta.

 

I like big, open worlds. Vanguards world, to me, was pretty awesome. It had...other issues unfortunately and a very, very small playerbase.

 

With a large playerbase, large open worlds can be very fun indeed. Im not a fan of small worlds.

 

We'll see if the smallness of it is too much for me to handle. Im willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Aion's world is not even close to Vanguard's world. Well, get to 20 and out of the areas that have channels and then decide. My thought is that it's going to be too small for you. At least at launch.

Obviously, if Vanguard's world size is someone's metric, just about all MMORPGs will fall short. :)

The problem with Aion is that the world is smaller than any other major MMORPG I can think of from WoW forward. If you remove the lands in AoC dedicated to resource collection and guild keeps, Aion might be bigger than AoC. Maybe.

Not including the Abyss, which is hard to quantify size wise, Aion has maybe 20% of the PvE land mass as WAR. Maybe less than 20% of the land mass in WoW at release. Half that PvE real estate belongs to the other side and though you can rift to two zones for PvP and a couple invasion quests, it's not leveling content you have access to.

To be fair, some PvP players have voiced the opinion that the small world will be better for PvP, because you won't be able to circumvent invaders, but will be forced to face them. I'm a PvP leaning player, but I personally don't buy that argument.

For most, the small world size will become a factor and likely a major factor in limiting the number of months they get out of this game.

The small world will be good for pvp but at the same time the initial rush will be a massive headache...massive. Aions world is way way to small. Granted some of the instanced dungeons are huge but pure landmass its very lacking. Would be nice if the 2 lands didnt mirror each other more or less outside of snow vs lush green. That alone would make the world feel larger.

Originally posted by fiontar

This is definitely one of the biggest negatives for Aion.

A game can be fun from the start, but if the world is too small, that flaw will grow in importance every day you play, until it becomes the death of the experience for you.

Aion has a very small game world.

The first wave of people quiting the game will be people who can't stand the griefing.

The second mass exodus will be people leaving once they realize how small the game world is (and how poorly designed much of what is in game actually is).

Zone design is at least as bad as WAR, maybe even worse, but the total land mass, excluding the Abyss, is maybe 20% of the land mass in WAR. Each zone is maybe the size of a large zone in WoW, but post level 20 there are only three zones for each race, excluding the Abyss! That is very small.

You say you are not a wow fanboi ,and yet you bring wow up in every single post you make. If you dont like Aion thats fine but your crusade to convince people not to play it screams wow fanboi.

In the last letter of one of the Aion devs you can read that they're already introducing new zones and much more. Why worry now?

Vanguard was awesome and I loved it for its vastness, but to be fair, most of it was barren land with not much to do..

Aion's world is tiny, in fact, it's probably the smallest mmo I've ever seen in terms of zone size and total land mass.  If exploration is your thing, look elsewhere, as this game caters to the fish-in-a-barrel pvp mindset, with some extremely linear pve thrown into the mix for the early levels.

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

Originally posted by veritas_X

Aion's world is tiny, in fact, it's probably the smallest mmo I've ever seen in terms of zone size and total land mass.  If exploration is your thing, look elsewhere, as this game caters to the fish-in-a-barrel pvp mindset, with some extremely linear pve thrown into the mix for the early levels.

agreed

Well as I said, im hesitant on this but Im willing to give it a shot.

Lets see how it plays out and if the small land size actually DOES improve pvp quality.

Im skeptical it will but we will see.

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by fiontar

This is definitely one of the biggest negatives for Aion.

A game can be fun from the start, but if the world is too small, that flaw will grow in importance every day you play, until it becomes the death of the experience for you.

Aion has a very small game world.

The first wave of people quiting the game will be people who can't stand the griefing.

The second mass exodus will be people leaving once they realize how small the game world is (and how poorly designed much of what is in game actually is).

Zone design is at least as bad as WAR, maybe even worse, but the total land mass, excluding the Abyss, is maybe 20% of the land mass in WAR. Each zone is maybe the size of a large zone in WoW, but post level 20 there are only three zones for each race, excluding the Abyss! That is very small.

 

You say you are not a wow fanboi ,and yet you bring wow up in every single post you make. If you dont like Aion thats fine but your crusade to convince people not to play it screams wow fanboi.

I haven't played WoW in at least a year and a half, maybe longer. I played for about three months after BC released and haven't been back since. It's a bit frustrating to have to repeat the same thing over and over to people who don't read the thread, then make flawed assumptions.

I reference WoW, in this regard, because most MMORPG players will understand the damn reference. It's as simple as that.

I'm not advocating for, or even playing, testing or thinking about another MMORPG at the moment.

If I wanted to sink to your level, I could say that your false, knee jerk assumptions and lack of anything meaningful to add to the discussion might mark you as the epitome of a fanboi. However, I don't know what you are. People can make their own assumptions. :)

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

 

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

flaws like.... what exactly? i played since day 1 of closed beta, and didnt notice "flaws".... also... theme park? the game feels pretty alive to me. everything has its place, the towns are very active and logically placed, the wilderness areas have birds and squirrels around,  the mobs even attack eachother on their own. I think you are confusing "theme park" with "story driven". i can see how that mistake can be made when there are videos, and questing areas that are there solely for the purpose of questing.....

Aion is offering players a more structured and to be quite honest, interesting, leveling process than MMO players are used to. Players arent used to having the game give them a reason to level up, they are used to leveling up just being something you do to get to the endgame content. you have to change your mindset about this when you play aion. the level up process is certainly part of your players story, and is tightly woven into advancing the games excellent storyline.

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

 

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

 

flaws like.... what exactly? i played since day 1 of closed beta, and didnt notice "flaws".... also... theme park? the game feels pretty alive to me. everything has its place, the towns are very active and logically placed, the wilderness areas have birds and squirrels around,  the mobs even attack eachother on their own. I think you are confusing "theme park" with "story driven". i can see how that mistake can be made when there are videos, and questing areas that are there solely for the purpose of questing.....

Aion is offering players a more structured and to be quite honest, interesting, leveling process than MMO players are used to. Players arent used to having the game give them a reason to level up, they are used to leveling up just being something you do to get to the endgame content. you have to change your mindset about this when you play aion. the level up process is certainly part of your players story, and is tightly woven into advancing the games excellent storyline.

That's some hefty spin.

Flaws?

World too small.

Too few zones.

Zones connected through teleports.

The zones are very linear. Another "follow the yellow brick road" title.

The zones are completely enclosed in low rez textured cliffs.

Each zone is further sub divided into smaller areas, enclosed with impassible cliffs. These areas are often further broken up by impassible gullies or other barriers. In this game, if you can see it, but it's more than ten feet higher or lower than you, there's a good chance you can never go there.

Some areas look great, others look like some of the worst areas in the original Guild Wars.

Terrain geography does not feel natural or organic.

Placement of flora in some areas is great, in others carelessly placed, often in mish mash clumps.

You can't swim. Any where. If it's passable, it's no deeper than knee high. If it's some where they don't want you to go, even if there is content right on the other side, you'll be over your head, walking on the bottom and will drown.

Poor use of of the vertical plane, which in most places is only used to provide a constricting barrier.

Small world size necessitates frequent travel related time sinks. You'll run back and forth to the main quest hub many times in an extended session.

Cities serve little purpose beyond training and crafting.

No shared PvE zones, where members of each faction can bump into each other and decide to run, kill or tolerate, compete over quests or kills, etc... That's reserved for the Abyss.

I still can't figure out how the was supposed to have looked prior to the breaking of the tower. Was the world hollow? If so, why were there skies? If the people lived on the exterior, none of the current geography makes any sense. Look at the maps and then run around the game maps, noting how much real estate they take up. So, Aion built a world not even the size of one of the moon-lets of Mars? I could go on. The fault, the world design doesn't make any sense given the lore or the minimum level of "reality" needed for a fantasy setting.

The zones are heavily "theme park" in nature. Everything is where it is to give a place for the corresponding quests. It's not at all organic in nature. You never feel this is a viable sim world.

Reliance on zone instances for level 1 to 20 content, due to the lack of redundancy of starting areas.

Closed world design. Regions don't flow into each other. None have strategic value as a function of their place in the world.

There is rarely the sense that you could close yours eyes, spin around, pick a random direction and find anything worth while. Zone design is basically a guided tour approach through a very basic maze with few options as to which way you go.

The Capitol cities are completely separate from the world. Not an "Oasis of civilization" in a vast wilderness, but a pocket realm with no meaningful location.

I could go on.

Most of these flaws are the same flaws that have been criticized heavily in other titles. In many cases the flaws are more extreme here.

Not infrequently you can stop, look around and say "this game looks pretty nice". However, as you travel the world, you are constantly reminded you are in a small, almost completely content driven theme park of a world, rather than being able to immerse in an organic, engaging environment that can foster the illusion of a possible real place.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

 

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

 

flaws like.... what exactly? i played since day 1 of closed beta, and didnt notice "flaws".... also... theme park? the game feels pretty alive to me. everything has its place, the towns are very active and logically placed, the wilderness areas have birds and squirrels around,  the mobs even attack eachother on their own. I think you are confusing "theme park" with "story driven". i can see how that mistake can be made when there are videos, and questing areas that are there solely for the purpose of questing.....

Aion is offering players a more structured and to be quite honest, interesting, leveling process than MMO players are used to. Players arent used to having the game give them a reason to level up, they are used to leveling up just being something you do to get to the endgame content. you have to change your mindset about this when you play aion. the level up process is certainly part of your players story, and is tightly woven into advancing the games excellent storyline.

 

That's some hefty spin.

Flaws?

World too small.

Too few zones.

Zones connected through teleports.

The zones are very linear. Another "follow the yellow brick road" title.

The zones are completely enclosed in low rez textured cliffs.

Each zone is further sub divided into smaller areas, enclosed with impassible cliffs. These areas are often further broken up by impassible gullies or other barriers. In this game, if you can see it, but it's more than ten feet higher or lower than you, there's a good chance you can never go there.

Some areas look great, others look like some of the worst areas in the original Guild Wars.

Terrain geography does not feel natural or organic.

Placement of flora in some areas is great, in others carelessly placed, often in mish mash clumps.

You can't swim. Any where. If it's passable, it's no deeper than knee high. If it's some where they don't want you to go, even if there is content right on the other side, you'll be over your head, walking on the bottom and will drown.

Poor use of of the vertical plane, which in most places is only used to provide a constricting barrier.

Small world size necessitates frequent travel related time sinks. You'll run back and forth to the main quest hub many times in an extended session.

Cities serve little purpose beyond training and crafting.

No shared PvE zones, where members of each faction can bump into each other and decide to run, kill or tolerate, compete over quests or kills, etc... That's reserved for the Abyss.

I still can't figure out how the was supposed to have looked prior to the breaking of the tower. Was the world hollow? If so, why were there skies? If the people lived on the exterior, none of the current geography makes any sense. Look at the maps and then run around the game maps, noting how much real estate they take up. So, Aion built a world not even the size of one of the moon-lets of Mars? I could go on. The fault, the world design doesn't make any sense given the lore or the minimum level of "reality" needed for a fantasy setting.

The zones are heavily "theme park" in nature. Everything is where it is to give a place for the corresponding quests. It's not at all organic in nature. You never feel this is a viable sim world.

Reliance on zone instances for level 1 to 20 content, due to the lack of redundancy of starting areas.

Closed world design. Regions don't flow into each other. None have strategic value as a function of their place in the world.

There is rarely the sense that you could close yours eyes, spin around, pick a random direction and find anything worth while. Zone design is basically a guided tour approach through a very basic maze with few options as to which way you go.

The Capitol cities are completely separate from the world. Not an "Oasis of civilization" in a vast wilderness, but a pocket realm with no meaningful location.

I could go on.

Most of these flaws are the same flaws that have been criticized heavily in other titles. In many cases the flaws are more extreme here.

Not infrequently you can stop, look around and say "this game looks pretty nice". However, as you travel the world, you are constantly reminded you are in a small, almost completely content driven theme park of a world, rather than being able to immerse in an organic, engaging environment that can foster the illusion of a possible real place.

 

 

 

have you even bothered to look at videos of korean players PVEing in the higher lvl zones? meaning past the lvl 30 cap in the beta? the zones are absolutely massive.... im talking like.... take the barrens from wow times like 4..... and not only that, but they are fairly open as well. the zones pre lvl 20 are all very structured in design. i can definitely agree with that, but did you ever stop to think that is because the game designers did it to help ease you into the game, and guide your progress, only to bust the game world wide open at later levels? Also, have you see videos of the new zones that were just added with 1.5? again, freaking huge.... and fairly wide open.

it sounds like you are judging the game based solely on your experience in the first 20 levels, which is just rediculous. the first 20 levels in wow are just horrible. one quest hub to the next, with ABSOLUTELY no need to explore. it isnt until you start getting into the 50s, or even close to 60, that they started putting in quests that had you crossing vast distances. not only that, but if you look at just about ANY MMO, the early zones are universally the smallest zones in the game.

the simple fact is, nobody in the USA/EU (unless they played the korean version) has seen content past lvl 30, which by the way is 20 FUCKING LEVELS lower than the cap. that is a lot of levels..... if you hit 50 and still feel like the game world is small (i dont see how you could, from what i have seen in videos and know from experience, tabula rasa was smaller, age of conan was smaller, city of heroes/villains was smaller....) then ok, whatever, bitch away... i guess you have earned that right after sticking it out and leveling to max. until then, shut it and either play or dont play the game. nobody will be that happy if you do, and nobody will miss you that badly if you dont. that is the joy of the internet.

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

 

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

 

flaws like.... what exactly? i played since day 1 of closed beta, and didnt notice "flaws".... also... theme park? the game feels pretty alive to me. everything has its place, the towns are very active and logically placed, the wilderness areas have birds and squirrels around,  the mobs even attack eachother on their own. I think you are confusing "theme park" with "story driven". i can see how that mistake can be made when there are videos, and questing areas that are there solely for the purpose of questing.....

Aion is offering players a more structured and to be quite honest, interesting, leveling process than MMO players are used to. Players arent used to having the game give them a reason to level up, they are used to leveling up just being something you do to get to the endgame content. you have to change your mindset about this when you play aion. the level up process is certainly part of your players story, and is tightly woven into advancing the games excellent storyline.

 

That's some hefty spin.

Flaws?

World too small.

Too few zones.

Zones connected through teleports.

The zones are very linear. Another "follow the yellow brick road" title.

The zones are completely enclosed in low rez textured cliffs.

Each zone is further sub divided into smaller areas, enclosed with impassible cliffs. These areas are often further broken up by impassible gullies or other barriers. In this game, if you can see it, but it's more than ten feet higher or lower than you, there's a good chance you can never go there.

Some areas look great, others look like some of the worst areas in the original Guild Wars.

Terrain geography does not feel natural or organic.

Placement of flora in some areas is great, in others carelessly placed, often in mish mash clumps.

You can't swim. Any where. If it's passable, it's no deeper than knee high. If it's some where they don't want you to go, even if there is content right on the other side, you'll be over your head, walking on the bottom and will drown.

Poor use of of the vertical plane, which in most places is only used to provide a constricting barrier.

Small world size necessitates frequent travel related time sinks. You'll run back and forth to the main quest hub many times in an extended session.

Cities serve little purpose beyond training and crafting.

No shared PvE zones, where members of each faction can bump into each other and decide to run, kill or tolerate, compete over quests or kills, etc... That's reserved for the Abyss.

I still can't figure out how the was supposed to have looked prior to the breaking of the tower. Was the world hollow? If so, why were there skies? If the people lived on the exterior, none of the current geography makes any sense. Look at the maps and then run around the game maps, noting how much real estate they take up. So, Aion built a world not even the size of one of the moon-lets of Mars? I could go on. The fault, the world design doesn't make any sense given the lore or the minimum level of "reality" needed for a fantasy setting.

The zones are heavily "theme park" in nature. Everything is where it is to give a place for the corresponding quests. It's not at all organic in nature. You never feel this is a viable sim world.

Reliance on zone instances for level 1 to 20 content, due to the lack of redundancy of starting areas.

Closed world design. Regions don't flow into each other. None have strategic value as a function of their place in the world.

There is rarely the sense that you could close yours eyes, spin around, pick a random direction and find anything worth while. Zone design is basically a guided tour approach through a very basic maze with few options as to which way you go.

The Capitol cities are completely separate from the world. Not an "Oasis of civilization" in a vast wilderness, but a pocket realm with no meaningful location.

I could go on.

Most of these flaws are the same flaws that have been criticized heavily in other titles. In many cases the flaws are more extreme here.

Not infrequently you can stop, look around and say "this game looks pretty nice". However, as you travel the world, you are constantly reminded you are in a small, almost completely content driven theme park of a world, rather than being able to immerse in an organic, engaging environment that can foster the illusion of a possible real place.

 

 

 

 

have you even bothered to look at videos of korean players PVEing in the higher lvl zones? meaning past the lvl 30 cap in the beta? the zones are absolutely massive.... im talking like.... take the barrens from wow times like 4..... and not only that, but they are fairly open as well. the zones pre lvl 20 are all very structured in design. i can definitely agree with that, but did you ever stop to think that is because the game designers did it to help ease you into the game, and guide your progress, only to bust the game world wide open at later levels? Also, have you see videos of the new zones that were just added with 1.5? again, freaking huge.... and fairly wide open.

it sounds like you are judging the game based solely on your experience in the first 20 levels, which is just rediculous. the first 20 levels in wow are just horrible. one quest hub to the next, with ABSOLUTELY no need to explore. it isnt until you start getting into the 50s, or even close to 60, that they started putting in quests that had you crossing vast distances. not only that, but if you look at just about ANY MMO, the early zones are universally the smallest zones in the game.

the simple fact is, nobody in the USA/EU (unless they played the korean version) has seen content past lvl 30, which by the way is 20 FUCKING LEVELS lower than the cap. that is a lot of levels..... if you hit 50 and still feel like the game world is small (i dont see how you could, from what i have seen in videos and know from experience, tabula rasa was smaller, age of conan was smaller, city of heroes/villains was smaller....) then ok, whatever, bitch away... i guess you have earned that right after sticking it out and leveling to max. until then, shut it and either play or dont play the game. nobody will be that happy if you do, and nobody will miss you that badly if you dont. that is the joy of the internet.

You may have had some good points to make, until you devolved into Trolldom.

When you've matured a little, you might have some things worth adding to discussions like this.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by Dameaus

Originally posted by fiontar

The world is very small, which is one of the biggest flaws for this otherwise compelling game.

The non-Abyss world map for both factions combined probably has a total landmass equal to all the Tier One lands in Warhammer Online, minus the RvR lakes. It's harder to quantify the Abyss, because it's 3 dimensional and it's mostly empty space, with small islands of land scattered here and there. Setting the Abyss aside, Aion has about 15%-20% the solid land mass seen in WAR.

If you compare it to WoW, you could probably fit all six lvl20+ "PvE" zones in Aion into a space less than 60% the size of Kalimdor. So, let's say that the three zones for your race would combined take up about as much space as The Barrens, Stone Talon Mountains and Ashenvale combined.

Small world.

Also, the zones are connected by portals, no seamless transitions. Additionally, the sub areas with in each zone are all surrounded by impassible cliffs and are connected through just a couple of narrow choke points.

For people wondering about rifts, even though an individual rift tends to open up near content for players in the same level range on each side, it is very possible for Level 35-40s invaders to travel to the part of the zone where level 20-25s are leveling.

 

50% of statistics are made up 90% of the time...

you have no idea what is the size of what, you are just making up numbers.

yes aions world is small compared to a lot of MMOs. it is, however, much more artistically and caringly crafted, and everywhere/thing in the game has a purpose. it also fosters PVP due to rifts.

 

Have I measured it yet? No, I haven't. You'll notice I always try to use some qualifiers when presenting my educated estimates. Heck, I thought the zones in LotRO where a lot bigger than they actually were once you set about timing the time it took to run from one edge to another.

If you want square kilometer estimates of Aion and the other titles referenced, sorry, I can't give you that. For people wanting an idea of the size of Aion, I have given an honest estimate based on the hours I've spent in Aion and the way too many hours I've spent in MMORPGs in general.

Opinion on zone design is going to be subjective. I've been around these games for so long it's hard to not see flaws when they present themselves, where as many other people won't notice them until many hours, days or weeks spent in the game world. Some areas are stunning, others are very blah. When you step back and look at the way the world design supports the game, there are some pretty big flaws here.

I'll agree that most everything has a purpose. This would have to be the case when you cram such a long leveling curve into such a small virtual environment. However, this results in the "Theme Park" phenomena in MMORPG world design.

The scale runs from Theme Park <-----> Virtual World.

The ideal is probably close to the middle. Some consideration has to be given to the way the world supports the game.  There should be the illusion you are living in an organic, viable environment, while still keeping things tight enough to foster fun game play.

Aion is way to the left of that scale. Go too much further left and you might as well have a game that's entirely made up of Battlefields.

 

flaws like.... what exactly? i played since day 1 of closed beta, and didnt notice "flaws".... also... theme park? the game feels pretty alive to me. everything has its place, the towns are very active and logically placed, the wilderness areas have birds and squirrels around,  the mobs even attack eachother on their own. I think you are confusing "theme park" with "story driven". i can see how that mistake can be made when there are videos, and questing areas that are there solely for the purpose of questing.....

Aion is offering players a more structured and to be quite honest, interesting, leveling process than MMO players are used to. Players arent used to having the game give them a reason to level up, they are used to leveling up just being something you do to get to the endgame content. you have to change your mindset about this when you play aion. the level up process is certainly part of your players story, and is tightly woven into advancing the games excellent storyline.

 

That's some hefty spin.

Flaws?

World too small.

Too few zones.

Zones connected through teleports.

The zones are very linear. Another "follow the yellow brick road" title.

The zones are completely enclosed in low rez textured cliffs.

Each zone is further sub divided into smaller areas, enclosed with impassible cliffs. These areas are often further broken up by impassible gullies or other barriers. In this game, if you can see it, but it's more than ten feet higher or lower than you, there's a good chance you can never go there.

Some areas look great, others look like some of the worst areas in the original Guild Wars.

Terrain geography does not feel natural or organic.

Placement of flora in some areas is great, in others carelessly placed, often in mish mash clumps.

You can't swim. Any where. If it's passable, it's no deeper than knee high. If it's some where they don't want you to go, even if there is content right on the other side, you'll be over your head, walking on the bottom and will drown.

Poor use of of the vertical plane, which in most places is only used to provide a constricting barrier.

Small world size necessitates frequent travel related time sinks. You'll run back and forth to the main quest hub many times in an extended session.

Cities serve little purpose beyond training and crafting.

No shared PvE zones, where members of each faction can bump into each other and decide to run, kill or tolerate, compete over quests or kills, etc... That's reserved for the Abyss.

I still can't figure out how the was supposed to have looked prior to the breaking of the tower. Was the world hollow? If so, why were there skies? If the people lived on the exterior, none of the current geography makes any sense. Look at the maps and then run around the game maps, noting how much real estate they take up. So, Aion built a world not even the size of one of the moon-lets of Mars? I could go on. The fault, the world design doesn't make any sense given the lore or the minimum level of "reality" needed for a fantasy setting.

The zones are heavily "theme park" in nature. Everything is where it is to give a place for the corresponding quests. It's not at all organic in nature. You never feel this is a viable sim world.

Reliance on zone instances for level 1 to 20 content, due to the lack of redundancy of starting areas.

Closed world design. Regions don't flow into each other. None have strategic value as a function of their place in the world.

There is rarely the sense that you could close yours eyes, spin around, pick a random direction and find anything worth while. Zone design is basically a guided tour approach through a very basic maze with few options as to which way you go.

The Capitol cities are completely separate from the world. Not an "Oasis of civilization" in a vast wilderness, but a pocket realm with no meaningful location.

I could go on.

Most of these flaws are the same flaws that have been criticized heavily in other titles. In many cases the flaws are more extreme here.

Not infrequently you can stop, look around and say "this game looks pretty nice". However, as you travel the world, you are constantly reminded you are in a small, almost completely content driven theme park of a world, rather than being able to immerse in an organic, engaging environment that can foster the illusion of a possible real place.

 

 

 

 

have you even bothered to look at videos of korean players PVEing in the higher lvl zones? meaning past the lvl 30 cap in the beta? the zones are absolutely massive.... im talking like.... take the barrens from wow times like 4..... and not only that, but they are fairly open as well. the zones pre lvl 20 are all very structured in design. i can definitely agree with that, but did you ever stop to think that is because the game designers did it to help ease you into the game, and guide your progress, only to bust the game world wide open at later levels? Also, have you see videos of the new zones that were just added with 1.5? again, freaking huge.... and fairly wide open.

it sounds like you are judging the game based solely on your experience in the first 20 levels, which is just rediculous. the first 20 levels in wow are just horrible. one quest hub to the next, with ABSOLUTELY no need to explore. it isnt until you start getting into the 50s, or even close to 60, that they started putting in quests that had you crossing vast distances. not only that, but if you look at just about ANY MMO, the early zones are universally the smallest zones in the game.

the simple fact is, nobody in the USA/EU (unless they played the korean version) has seen content past lvl 30, which by the way is 20 FUCKING LEVELS lower than the cap. that is a lot of levels..... if you hit 50 and still feel like the game world is small (i dont see how you could, from what i have seen in videos and know from experience, tabula rasa was smaller, age of conan was smaller, city of heroes/villains was smaller....) then ok, whatever, bitch away... i guess you have earned that right after sticking it out and leveling to max. until then, shut it and either play or dont play the game. nobody will be that happy if you do, and nobody will miss you that badly if you dont. that is the joy of the internet.

 

You may have had some good points to make, until you devolved into Trolldom.

When you've matured a little, you might have some things worth adding to discussions like this.

ummmm...trolling how? by disproving many of the things you have said? huh... thats trolling these days? STRANGE!