In video games I've settled for hardcore being anything that is designed to just be "painfull", "wastefull", and similar just for the sake of it.

Real "hardcore" is putting your real body at risk of death by doing something you care about.

Gaming "hardcore" is turning off the monitor and bathing.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by Axehilt

Obviously that's not true, and we can describe one MMORPG as being harder than another, just as (if "hardcore" wasn't a retardedly vague word) we could describe one MMORPG as being more hardcore than another.

 

Harder? No, we can describe one MMO as taking longer than another, but not harder. The very nature of these games means that you will reach level cap and you will have best gear given enough time. What's more, you will reach those goals in roughly the same amount of play time as everyone else. Since it doesn't seem to be sticking with any of you, I'll say it again: In an MMORPG you are your stats and gear. Stats and gear trump skill. Stats and gear are a function of time. Not a function of luck or skill, just time.

 

Again, I'll disagree Jimmy.  In EVE I have almost 40M SP's on two characters, they are well trained in a wide variety of  well fitted ships, and I assure you, better than 3/4's of the EVE population could destroy me in a PVP fight, even if they only had 10M SP's.

Their skill at PVP, correct fitting of their ship (which is sometimes luck) and tactics employed defintely have a huge impact in EVE and all the SP's in the world (nor ships that I fit) protect me from being destroyed in EVE.

BTW, I compensate for my lack of PVP skills by flying in groups, safety in numbers you know, but still you'll rarely find me in the top end of a killboard.

And its not just EVE, those 8 man groups in DAOC that I referenced in my earlier post were very skilled, their healers knew how to duck out of sight be still stay in range of the people they were healing, the tanks knew how to assist train the primary targets, some of the crowd control folks were legendary at estimating whether their targets were in range (and accounting for lag) and could stop your group before your CC guy would even think of casting.

I recall on Morgan La Fey a Hib group leader called "General" and his 8 man was legendary.  They could actually turn back a 40 man zerg, or at least kill dozens before dying themselves.

No, player skill can have a huge impact in certain games, and if you disagree than I can only think you haven't played the right games yet.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

...lazy gamer.

Am I the only one that found this funny

Troll! Troll!

Originally posted by daylight01

Many years ago I was part of a "hard core guild" and it was very stressful at times,you had to give up all your free time and be available to the guild almost every night.

That's pretty funny - thanks for the smile.  The day I EVER attach that much importance to a recreational computer game, I'll know I have become an uber-nerd and life has lost all real excitement and meaning.  Stressful my ass - if you think THAT'S stress, God help you in the real, cold, hard world.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by Axehilt

Obviously that's not true, and we can describe one MMORPG as being harder than another, just as (if "hardcore" wasn't a retardedly vague word) we could describe one MMORPG as being more hardcore than another.

 Harder? No, we can describe one MMO as taking longer than another, but not harder. The very nature of these games means that you will reach level cap and you will have best gear given enough time. What's more, you will reach those goals in roughly the same amount of play time as everyone else. Since it doesn't seem to be sticking with any of you, I'll say it again: In an MMORPG you are your stats and gear. Stats and gear trump skill. Stats and gear are a function of time. Not a function of luck or skill, just time.

And there was nothing "retardly" vague about the definition of hardcore that I provided. Hell, I even hedged the whole thing by identifying it as MY PERSONAL OPINION. So in the end, your posts on this thread are just a half ass stab at self proclaiming your superiority to others. Too bad that taking part in a "useless banter" prevents you from remaining above it.

You're right.

You're incapable of seeing the very blatant difference in difficulty between a level 1 mob that you can autoattack to death, and a max-level boss which requires you to react to each of its abilities or lose.  (and by extension, these same sorts of difficulty differences exist between different games.)

So you're right.  This conversation is useless banter because I'm talking with someone incapable of rational thought.

There's nothing "hardcore" about MMORPGs

You're wrong.

If you play a MMO for 4 days straight until you fall off your chair dead as a dodo due to dehydration and whatnot, that's hardcore man ;-)

Originally posted by Rajen

 I would have to say hardcore just means time sink in MMORPGs.... you can tell when playing an MMO which players have all the time in the world and which ones don't.

Most MMOs, yes, but not all.  Sandbox style MMOs require skill & a certain level of intelligence.  In those games, plain time sinks will get you nowhere fast, not unless you put some strategy into it. 

Regardless, in this world, success requires both work & skills, so it is not shocking that MMOs require time to accomplish goals.

I play Eve Online, and it is easy to pick out fresh from WoW noobs who fail miserably no matter how much time they put into it.

Eeeeeeeeeeeew, vesavius is such a know it all self proclaimed genius. Disgusting. Someone give me a stick so I can poke ''it''.

On topic, I agree that most games, despites being games, are too easy for my sake. And time doesnt equal skills. But what can we do, heh, internet memes will still be used by people who doesnt know a thing about their real meaning. Cant do a thing about that. So lets dance! Hmmm yeah.

 i think hardcore just means a game filled with people who play 24+ hours a week.

Originally posted by Pro_Pwnerer

 i think hardcore just means a game filled with people who play 24+ hours a week.

Or, in other terms, "anti-social losers".  Both are applicable. 

I see many people didn't really read original post, but the point is that MMOs mainly consist of simple tasks that only take much time to complete. Which of course is nowhere near hardcore. But the OP's assumpion that there are no hardcore elements in any MMORPG is a way off.

Let's take for example everyone's favourite whipping boy: WoW. It's true that reaching lvl 80 or grinding daily quests and instances for emblems so you can eventually afford gear that compensates for players' lack of skill by giving gameplay changing qualities(stats) is the very definition of all non-hardcore elements of MMOs.

But there still exist challenges that allow hardcore players to distance themselves from the average crowd. While every instance and raid is beatable on regular difficulty(so everyone can experience and see the content) there exist some artifical challenges(hard/heroic modes) that really are beyond average players' reach. The hardest modes are still only being beat by top guilds which achieve it with skilled players who devote the time(time spent for learning the encouter to beat it, not time to grind out some stat advantage), but are not beat by your average retard you stumble upon in pick-up groups.

There also goes PvP where everyone can truly show how skilled/hardcore they are, but it appliles as long as the game system allows overcoming advantages given by means of grinding easier tasks.

OP is right, MMO's are designed to be made mostly of easy tasks that are supposed to be repeated for hours/days/months to be accessible for masses. But he forgot to admit that there's exeption for it in every game, which made many players butthurt and flame him forgetting about the point of discussion.

So the thread title should rather be "There's little "hardcore" about MMORPGs".

The problem with ‘hardcore’ is symptomatic of the way many words are being used in media hype mode. Many words like Hardcore, Sexed up, Hate, Love etc are being used in the most tenuous of circumstances.

Do character classes really get ‘loving’ when they get an improvement? Are we ‘haters’ when we say we dislike something about a new MMO. Or ‘fanboys’ when we say like an aspect of a MMO?

The words ‘hardcore’ and ‘hate’ feature in loads of threads on this website. We have hardcore crafters, solo play haters, fluff lovers, it goes on and on. Way past time we woke up and stopped this hyperbole use of more and more words from our language.