It's not a sport. Competitive activity maybe but certainly not a sport.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

 

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

Originally posted by Furor

again this is big news because World of Warcraft is the first mmorpg to be shown on national TV Network and becoming the first to be considered an e sport among the professional sports. It gives major exposure to more potential subscribers, and well lets face it wow will only go up and not down.

this is a good thing. it opens doors for other potential MMOs to be given more publicity. Umm..if any potential subscribers haven't signed up for wow i don't think this will change anything. everyone knows about wow and probably had a chance to try it so i don't see number going up very much. It may go up when the new xpac is released due to old players coming back to see if the game is better or worst then they remember.

 This is also a major milestone because, there will never be another mmorpg that will ever catch up to wow in terms of subscribers. And this piece of news have just hit the nail to the coffin of long debated "wow is dying" comment made by wow haters. Wow after 4 years will reach even higher peak then originated. With this news in mind, wow have not reached its potential peak yet, and will always be miles ahead of its competitors in terms of subscribers. There are no more wow killers, there never will be this is a fact.

are you kidding me? wow boasted about 11m subscribers at its high point and that included the numbers from asia..china specifically. you take asia out the mix and that leaves about 5-6m players between NA and EU. MMO gaming is still young and its going to gain even more popularity over the next few years.

whether player want to believe or not WoW will end up falling victim to old age due to new advancements in technology and new pioneers in gaming coming up with ways to take MMO gaming to the next level. granted this won't happen over night..wow took about 3+ years including development to get to where it is.
 

World of Warcraft is no longer the 800 pound gorilla, it is now officially 2,000 pound Godzilla. I hope the developers try not to clone wow in hopes to reach to wow's subscribers base, I hope there are developers make fun original mmorpg. Trying to copy and compete against Wow is just futile.

Zzzz wow itself is just a compilation of other games. what exactly did wow do that was so innovative that was unlike anything that has been done before?

...I don't think the next big game will be very innovative. It probably will copy blizzard in that it will take the good stuff from alot of the current games and combine them into one huge game for everyone to enjoy.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

 

Let's face it: this is another blow in the face of the WOW haters.

WOW being reckognised as a valid e-sport on ESPN is just a fact.

And ALL 10  classes can make it to the TOP 100 of the world in official PVP  LADDER based PvP rankings.

Grtz Blizzard, it shows while other promise Porsche, Ferrari and Maserati they deliver ... Trabants.

I know I have the Mercedes SLE of MMO's and the 60% market share proves most people know it by now.

Waiting for the rated BG's in the next patch.....:))))

Hehe, Zorn..you're priceless at times.

I love the game as a pve game. They've done everything right in that area, but I find it's pvp a fucking joke. It's a damn gear grind, boring one at that, ruined by what they laughably call twinks, ebay gold and buy gear of some random person..lol, premades and class imbalance. Some classes, or combination of classes, will just own anything thrown at them. Premades blows in any pvp-game though. A random pug got no chance at all against people with teamspeak or ventrilo and most will just leave when facing them, so premades blows to high heaven.

Anyway, that WoW is on ESPN has nothing at all with being a good pvp game, or even a good game, it has everything to do with mainstream and money. WoW is mainstream and will make them money. See, it's as simple as that. Now go cyberwank to WoW numbers in another thread please. Sometimes it's embarrasing to think I play the same game as people like you.

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

 

Let's face it: this is another blow in the face of the WOW haters.

WOW being reckognised as a valid e-sport on ESPN is just a fact.

And ALL 10  classes can make it to the TOP 100 of the world in official PVP  LADDER based PvP rankings.

Grtz Blizzard, it shows while other promise Porsche, Ferrari and Maserati they deliver ... Trabants.

I know I have the Mercedes SLE of MMO's and the 60% market share proves most people know it by now.

Waiting for the rated BG's in the next patch.....:))))

 

Hehe, Zorn..you're priceless at times.

I love the game as a pve game. They've done everything right in that area, but I find it's pvp a fucking joke. It's a damn gear grind, boring one at that, ruined by what they laughably call twinks, ebay gold and buy gear of some random person..lol, premades and class imbalance. Some classes, or combination of classes, will just own anything thrown at them. Premades blows in any pvp-game though. A random pug got no chance at all against people with teamspeak or ventrilo and most will just leave when facing them, so premades blows to high heaven.

Anyway, that WoW is on ESPN has nothing at all with being a good pvp game, or even a good game, it has everything to do with mainstream and money. WoW is mainstream and will make them money. See, it's as simple as that. Now go cyberwank to WoW numbers in another thread please. Sometimes it's embarrasing to think I play the same game as people like you.

1) If a random pug had a chance against a coordinated group you would say the game requiered no skill.

2) If any other game different from WOW requiered a coordinated team to win, you would say that game was awsome and the best PVP game ever.

WOW bashers FTW!

Originally posted by Mythricor

Ok OP the concept you need to grasp is called capitalism, those with all the money get all the stuff. It was mentioned first page but not since then.

WoW did not get on ESPN because it was the best PVP MMO or the best overall MMO or most fun MMO to watch, while it may be one or all of those things, the ONLY reason WoW is becoming a E-Sport is that it has 11 million, or however many now, subscribers. ESPN will only show games that have large fan bases so they get people to watch it, that plus Blizzard is extremely rich and can put alot of money towards it.

That is the one and only reason it got on TV, that's not bashing WoW which is a fine game, so stop the fanboism and realize the facts money runs the world and blizzard has a awful lot of it

i do hope espn show what people really love (but i doubt it)

80%  of pvper arent in arena they are in all the other pvp place 

wsg,wintergrasp etc.most 11 m couldnt care less about arena 

but they love a good brawl in wintergrasp ,or a run like hell in wsg sorry if i leave the other best out ,(i dont remeber their name)

thats why most player that pvp in wow ,pvp

saying arena is the best of sport in wow is silly ,wintergrasp and all the other like it even the new one are what player want to see in espn not arena we can see arena easy anywhere lol,no need for espn to do that

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I have to say, WoW officially becoming an E-Sport has only proven to me that "E-Sport" is a complete joke. I've played WoW's PvP, I've played WoW's arenas. It is far, FAR too unbalanced to ever be considered a legitimate sport.

 

^this... took the words right out of my mouth.

EDIT: also i didnt see any videos in the OP......

 

So true.  Soccer is so unbalanced too, I play defense and I can't score. It can't be considered a legitimate sport. Nerf the forward line!

I hear that Chess is a sport. Heck even Jeopardy and The Price is Right are sports as well.

Call me purist...

MMOs don't belong in the e-sport world. Money and high exposure are reasons behind it... I guess the era where only a select few could compete in games such as quake 3, RTCW, Unreal Tournament is now reaching it's end.

Blizzard is slowly starting to look like Microsoft... invading and controlling one entity at a time shall we say?

I'll watch a few matches... who knows, I could be wrong about it but I have my doubts.

Originally posted by Ponico

Blizzard is slowly starting to look like Microsoft... invading and controlling one entity at a time shall we say?

Well, they've already been having some big issues with their big money-maker, just like a Certain 360-toting company. So hey, I guess the two are closer than we all thought!

(Secretly, Blizzard is owned by Bill Gates, wanting to create an MMO that rubs the awesomesauce of Windows in all the Mac user faces by letting them play it, but suffer from horrible glitches while the window's version isn't crashing cause of a fly's shadow)

---

Originally posted by Furor
http://www.mmo-champion.com
 
awesome blizzard, now warcraft is a professional e sport now. Now who says blizzard's pvp sucked? It is officially mainstream pvp now. Congrates to blizzard for becoming the first mmorpg to become professional e sport in the world of professional sports and the world.

---

E Sports and PvP arent necesarily the same thing.

And just because something is mainstream doesnt mean its any good.
If thats the case, you were a huge backstreet boys fan.

/edit Hey zorn, I see you brought your WoW spirit and pom poms!!
Raw Raw sis boom baw
Kickem in the right knee
Kickem in the left knee
Kickem in the Wee Knee TOUCHDOWN!!!!!

Try not to argue with them too much.  The arena kids are in la la land.  They think WoW is shown on espn because it's a good esports game, even though WoW was never intended to be or built for competitive play where as other well established esports games are.  They don't know how to think for themselves, they try to form opinions as facts.  Just laugh and move on.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Magic the Gathering was an E-sport too. Not sure if it still is... ESPN likes money too and lately it seems Blizzard has plenty enough to buy into the mainstream. Go go capitalism!

Sadly for WoW fans this is may actually be the first sign that the game has become 'too' mainstream and will begin to collapse. Fads cannot hold up to mainstream attention for long. When something becomes so big that it seems that 'everyone is doing it' the rebellious side of human nature kicks in and suddenly it's 'not cool'.

HAHAH

yeah right. Tell that to Facebook or social networking or Ipods. Attaining mainstream is the solution to the question of persistence. If you want something to persist, you make it mainstream or evolve into something mainstream. Mainstream increases demand exponentially until there is a max capacity of users and I don't think WoW has reached that.

If anything, WoW's age and archaic gameplay will kill it, not the fact that it is "mainstream."

Doubt they talk trash about the game cause they think it sucks, think they are just annoyed and wants their favorite game to get fixed. Getting tired of the lowlifes in here that are totally ignorant, if people play the game they think its flaws are small enough to overlook cause the rest is so fun.

Just keep to the facts instead, if you just took at what WoW and other games has, dosent matter if they are good features or not, WoW has by far the most complete game, not the best, not the most fun, but the most complete game, games that only offer PVP, or PVE or nothing (Tabula Rasa) cant be counted as being better then WoW. You could call me a fanboy and i guess i am, but i do also think that Tabula Rasa and several other games are a hell of alot more fun the WoW but its not a better game, and this can be said for most games out there WoW is better then them hence its the best.

Games that are released right now arent complete enough to compete with WoW, in the beginning i thought the ignorant WoW fanboys were annoying but now i start to see that its the ignorant WoW haters that are annoying, they just spew crap out their ass and dont even know what half of it means.

This is why WoW sells because Blizzard makes sure everyone knows about their games unlike other game developers.

Originally posted by Furor

How is wow's pvp system flawed? It is now shown as a professional sports like professional soccer, football, tennis, and basketball. WOW's pvp system has become a professional e sport shown on the tv network ESPN lol. Its the first mmorpg ever to achieve such a status. Those who missed watching it on ESPN can watch it live stream on my link. So the question remains how is wow's pvp system flawed? If wow's pvp system is so flawed why is it so popular and deserves to be shown on sports channel espn????

Possibly because WoW has a 10 million subscriber base.

N-Sync's music is all over TV, that doesn't make it good now does it?

WoW PVP = get the right class combo and roll everyone that wants to play with a friend regardless of player skill level. Ret Paladin + DK for example, they should just start out with a 2k rating.

Battlegrounds are just a flag clicking zerg fest of worthlessness. You can't even get any good items from battlegrounds alone anymore, unless you feel like trying to arena 2 seasons behind everyone above 1500 rating. So these imbalanced pvp teams get a free ride to the VERY BEST weapons in the game, including from raids, now they can roll over everyone in the next season to get the NEW BEST WEAPON.

Meanwhile, if a new player comes in, no matter how skilled and awesome they are, they have absolutely no chance of getting those weapons for a minimum of 1 full season of getting stomped by people with the good weapons.

Not flawed at all right? I didn't think so fake Furor.

Originally posted by Ponico

Call me purist...

MMOs don't belong in the e-sport world. Money and high exposure are reasons behind it... I guess the era where only a select few could compete in games such as quake 3, RTCW, Unreal Tournament is now reaching it's end.

Blizzard is slowly starting to look like Microsoft... invading and controlling one entity at a time shall we say?

 

I'll watch a few matches... who knows, I could be wrong about it but I have my doubts.

I agree that MMOs really don't have a place in pro gaming. Though if a wave of drones are willing to pay you money to set up some type of tournament structure that is done half assed, you can't turn it down. That's money you can use on resources such as new raid dungeons, and then re balancing the classes for the new pve encounters. It's free money to Blizzard and I wouldn't fault them for that.

Originally posted by taurak

Originally posted by Furor

How is wow's pvp system flawed? It is now shown as a professional sports like professional soccer, football, tennis, and basketball. WOW's pvp system has become a professional e sport shown on the tv network ESPN lol. Its the first mmorpg ever to achieve such a status. Those who missed watching it on ESPN can watch it live stream on my link. So the question remains how is wow's pvp system flawed? If wow's pvp system is so flawed why is it so popular and deserves to be shown on sports channel espn????

 

Possibly because WoW has a 10 million subscriber base.

N-Sync's music is all over TV, that doesn't make it good now does it?

WoW PVP = get the right class combo and roll everyone that wants to play with a friend regardless of player skill level. Ret Paladin + DK for example, they should just start out with a 2k rating.

You obviously never actually played arena. No matter how good geared and class combo, you will not get into 1600 arena without skill. Everyone 1600+ rating has maxed gear, and everyone who does arena isn't going to have a shit combo like priest priest. So every team pretty much has a Good combo, and having a good combo doesn't matter much, unless you think 1600 is a achievement. 

Battlegrounds are just a flag clicking zerg fest of worthlessness. You can't even get any good items from battlegrounds alone anymore, unless you feel like trying to arena 2 seasons behind everyone above 1500 rating. So these imbalanced pvp teams get a free ride to the VERY BEST weapons in the game, including from raids, now they can roll over everyone in the next season to get the NEW BEST WEAPON. 

Dude i don't know what kinda of world you live in, but when new seasons come out everyone is already geared, so there is no rolling over. The teams aren't that imbalanced. Its just you lose one you win. unless your on like whirlwind battlegroup.

Meanwhile, if a new player comes in, no matter how skilled and awesome they are, they have absolutely no chance of getting those weapons for a minimum of 1 full season of getting stomped by people with the good weapons.

Its not about that no matter how good you are you get owned by geared noobs, thats just makes the game even more worth while, It becomes there new goal to get better gear and pwn those no skiller geared noobs.

Not flawed at all right? I didn't think so fake Furor.

 This actually speaks more of the sad state of ESPN than WOW....also just because its on ESPN doesn't give the PVP system any more validity or make it "the best pvp" . They show damn texas holdem on ESPN  does that make it the best possible way to play poker no....just means its popular....so just because WOW is on ESPN doesn't make the PVP system the best nor without flaw. 

/facepalm

Originally posted by Pro_Pwnerer

Originally posted by taurak

Possibly because WoW has a 10 million subscriber base.

N-Sync's music is all over TV, that doesn't make it good now does it?

WoW PVP = get the right class combo and roll everyone that wants to play with a friend regardless of player skill level. Ret Paladin + DK for example, they should just start out with a 2k rating.

You obviously never actually played arena. No matter how good geared and class combo, you will not get into 1600 arena without skill. Everyone 1600+ rating has maxed gear, and everyone who does arena isn't going to have a shit combo like priest priest. So every team pretty much has a Good combo, and having a good combo doesn't matter much, unless you think 1600 is a achievement. 

Battlegrounds are just a flag clicking zerg fest of worthlessness. You can't even get any good items from battlegrounds alone anymore, unless you feel like trying to arena 2 seasons behind everyone above 1500 rating. So these imbalanced pvp teams get a free ride to the VERY BEST weapons in the game, including from raids, now they can roll over everyone in the next season to get the NEW BEST WEAPON. 

Dude i don't know what kinda of world you live in, but when new seasons come out everyone is already geared, so there is no rolling over. The teams aren't that imbalanced. Its just you lose one you win. unless your on like whirlwind battlegroup.

Meanwhile, if a new player comes in, no matter how skilled and awesome they are, they have absolutely no chance of getting those weapons for a minimum of 1 full season of getting stomped by people with the good weapons.

Its not about that no matter how good you are you get owned by geared noobs, thats just makes the game even more worth while, It becomes there new goal to get better gear and pwn those no skiller geared noobs.

Not flawed at all right? I didn't think so fake Furor.

 

On 1 hand,  you try to argue that WoW's PvP is more skill than gear and class combos and then on the other hand, you try to say to just accept the fact that you are going to be rolled by "gear noobs" and to just accept it? So which are you arguing for, does the game take skill or doesn't it? Does gear matter or doesn't it? If class combos never mattered so much, then why are there clear trends in the top 2's teams (there was a moment where I thought druids weren't in any top 2's team because of all the pally/dk teams running around). If there wasn't an imbalance, why did ret Pallies get nerfed into the ground? Can you honestly tell yourself every loss was due to skill moreso than gear (or vice versa)? There are too many things you can attribute a loss to and some outside the players own control. These are the things that make it hard to accept WoW as an equally competitive "sport" when there are clearly imbalances in the game and its really hard to weigh between whats balanced and whats not.

With a game like Warcraft 3, I can take more seriously, there's 4 races and only so many units (10-15) you have to track and its static (you play the same maps and there aren't changes made/added to the game every 3 months). With an MMORPG, its 10 different sets of abilities and 20-30+ abilities per set and other additional dynamics like Gear and Pets. I wouldn't say Warcraft 3 was perfectly balanced, but its easier to balance something like that and keep everything on more equal ground compared to an MMORPG that is constantly having things added to it and constantly changing all the time.

Being on TV has always been about marketing and it really is no big deal especially if a company has the money. It doesn't make it the best system yet alone a good one. There's too much complexity within an MMORPG and impossible to acquire a true balance yet alone a decent one when the game is constantly changing. There's a reason why I don't watch TV ultimately and its mainly because its all bullshit for the most part. Its stuffed with marketing, ads and too many forms of propaganda by many different groups that I just don't care to even try and keep track of. (Has anyone watched the movie Idiocracy?)