any game is hardcore if you can play it for 10 hours straight

"Hardcore" is a poorly defined word.  As such, threads that use the term quickly devolve into trolling and useless banter.

• WOW is a game you can sink 5000 hours into.  That could be described as hardcore.
• WOW is a game which currently lacks difficult endgame content.  That could be described as casual.
• WOW is a game with probably near 30 different game mechanics being used in a given fight.  That could be described as hardcore.
• Many of WOW's fights can be beat by spamming 1 button.  That could be described as casual.

And if we could manage (somehow) to get 70% of the people in this one thread to agree on a meaning of "hardcore"?  The next thread would bring us back to square 1 again.

Personally my gripes with WOW are that it didn't offer a small-scale progression curve, that it lacks difficult content, and raiding isn't fun.  However it's still a fantastic game.  Great enough that all the other MMOs I've tried/retried lately (except COX) are just outright worse games (and COX only fails out from lack of players online to team with; I think I like it more than WOW overall.)

I'd say i was a casual hardcore explorer.

In EQ i liked to find really difficult to solo-break camps at the bottom of dungeons or out in the wild and then try and figure how to break the camp. In the worst cases this could mean spending 4-5 evenings with my sucky ranger dying dozens of times (i'm hardcore stubborn). If i lost a level i'd go to whatever fast-levelling spot i was using to get the XP back plus one bubble and then go back to trying to break the camp. When i figured it out i'd go find a harder one.

I think my sucky ranger lost more exp than it would have taken to get to max level 3-4 times over.

You can't really do the stuff i like in the newer games because dungeons are full of elites rather than groups of normal mobs with patrollers etc and most of the zones are full of solo mobs all in the exact same level range rather than EQ-type zones full of different camps and solo mobs ranging from level 1-50 (slight exaggeration) so you ccan't just wander round randomly looking for odd camps tucked away in little corners that are your level range.

I don't play any now as I burnt out on EQ, SWG replaced it but was changed, Vanguard would probably have replaced SWG if i'd ever managed to get it to run on my PC. Fallen Earth looks like it might suit but can't run it.

I'll get my 4-yearly new PC next summer and then try Vanguard again i guess.

Originally posted by Axehilt

"Hardcore" is a poorly defined word.  As such, threads that use the term quickly devolve into trolling and useless banter.

• WOW is a game you can sink 5000 hours into.  That could be described as hardcore.
• WOW is a game which currently lacks difficult endgame content.  That could be described as casual.
• WOW is a game with probably near 30 different game mechanics being used in a given fight.  That could be described as hardcore.
• Many of WOW's fights can be beat by spamming 1 button.  That could be described as casual.

And if we could manage (somehow) to get 70% of the people in this one thread to agree on a meaning of "hardcore"?  The next thread would bring us back to square 1 again.

Personally my gripes with WOW are that it didn't offer a small-scale progression curve, that it lacks difficult content, and raiding isn't fun.  However it's still a fantastic game.  Great enough that all the other MMOs I've tried/retried lately (except COX) are just outright worse games (and COX only fails out from lack of players online to team with; I think I like it more than WOW overall.)

QFT

I agree with you, I just recently un-subbed from WoW (will probably come back eventually, it gets boring you know) but I put plenty of hours into it to consider the experience "hardcore". In terms of skill and figuring out what the hell you want to do, EVE is hardcore in the fact that it will confuse the shit out of you.

Personally though, as far as time-based hardcore goes, I would consider GW my "hardcore" game of choice.

I'm sure this will set somebody off, but in my mind there is nothing "hardcore" about anything in gaming. Hardcore in my mind involves something physically demanding and with risk involved. The only risk in gaming is wasting hours upon hours of your life.

When people brag how they and their guild are hardcore because they can clear endgame content within a small period of time of it being released, or how their guild is hardcore because they raid every night for hours on end, I can only imagine what their life outside of the gaming world must be like.

Wanna know who I think the most "hardcore" people are? People who get the most out of everything in life. When they play a game, they play it to get as much fun out of it as possible. When they go out, they go after the cute brunette sitting at the bar. At work, they push themselves to be the best at their job and get promotions/raises. That my friends, is hardcore. And that is what I try to push myself to do and never settle. Because in the end, I dont want to sit there with my grandkids and have to make up stories about their grandfather because I spent my whole life raiding online instances in games they never heard of.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing 'wrong' about gaming a lot. But its the people who need to proclaim themselves as "hardcore" because they are socially inadequate in real life that cause the problem. When someone brags about how much tougher/hardcore they are in gaming, I can only laugh.

In a thread about GAMES on a GAMES website i think most people would understand that we're not talking about LIFE, we're talking about GAMES.

You can have "hardcore" cage fighters, you can have "hardcore" maths nerds, you can have "hardcore" porn - you can even have "hardcore" smashed up bricks and concrete ;)

It's just a useful word - partly useful because it is so flexible - partly annoying because it is so flexible.

Within the CONTEXT of playing GAMES people use the word "hardcore" a lot so it seems a reasonable question from the OP to try and pin down some of the 100s of possible different individual meanings players may have for the word "hardcore" in the CONTEXT of playing GAMES.

Well, I'm so hardcore I'm getting my degree in Game Design because I think I can do better than the crap developers are coming up with now...lol

Originally posted by Lansid

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Lansid

 I've seen quite a few people display their dislike for World of Warcraft because of how it lacks "hardcore" content.

Well my questions are, "What hardcore games do you play >>currently<< since WoW is below your expectations?" and "Why do you consider your game Hardcore?"

 

Fire fighters are hardcore, policemen are hardcore, A soldier fighting for his/her country is hardcore. No such thing as a "hardcore gamer" Once someone designs a MMO that has a death penalty that makes someone drive to your home and put a gun in your face for dying then we can call those guys hardcore.

As for "Hardcore" games? ehh no such thing either.

Certain games may take more research to play well and hold a bit more risk when dying but every mmo is the same.

Easy.

 

Hmm so you compare real life with games lol.

Nope,  just sticking it to these lame self proclaimed "hardcore gamers" that think they're superior to everyone because they log in 40+ hours a week and avoid the outside world.

 

Well with respect, Remii718, I understand what you're saying pertaining to your relevance. But with this particular post, I "am" asking about MMO's, and what they consider "hardcore" and what "hardcore" games they are playing, not looking for a flame war.

Alright, So on this forum a game that requires more time to get good at is hardcore? if that's all that makes a game hardcore I would place Eve and Anarchy Online on this Hardcore List.

Both games take a decent amount of research to understand all the mechanics fully. Both games are complicated when it comes to user interface and overall game mechanics and under the hood systems. So, yeah those are mine.

Sorry about my craziness in this thread but the "I'm hardcore and better than you crowd" bother me.

Originally posted by zazz

I was Raiding Plane of Fear in EQ1 until the eartly hours of the morning , i think by this point i was on a 24 hours session easily and almost in a semi conscious, the guild wiped once again and i think i must have fallen alseep waiting for a monk to come drag my corpse , proberly was only for a minute but i woke in a startle at in game noise thinking the worse and i piss my pants little but i continued to raid for the next 2 hours without changing my pants.

 

True story, i think i still have the stain.

 

Thats how hardcore i am..

 

 

This guy is clearly winning the thread, cmon' guys, we know you have more stories like this, don't be shy! =)
 

Originally posted by Jackio81

Well, I'm so hardcore I'm getting my degree in Game Design because I think I can do better than the crap developers are coming up with now...lol

I doubt you would need to finish you degree to do better TBH.

Anyway... in answer to OP (and without being drawn on the whole fireman vs computer gamer argument...)

WWIIoL

Full PvP.  One shot kills.

Two phrases stand out to define WWIIoL
"Adapt or cry."
"Long periods of boredom followed by sudden death."

I have learned that doing something risky (like trying to run across open ground) and thinking "hmmm... this is a bit stupid..." is usually followed by the black screen of death.

The really hardcore part is where you suck it up and respawn.

Well, I'd disagree with WoW's hardcore raiding content being easy. Granted I last played in may, but I'd say the hardmodes introduced in 3.1 (Ulduar) patch are generally demanding compared to other games currently out there. It will make you sweat, if you're actually not being carried by your guild through these hardmodes.

If only a few guilds in the world can do the final challenge of Ulduar, without knowing strategies from previous kills, then I'd say it takes quite a lot of hardcore participation to do it. What I mean is you wipe and run back thousands of times only to learn one part of the fight.

As for how "hardcore" am I, well I can devote 4 nights in raiding easily.

Runescape was hardcore.. losing your items on death, i miss those days :(

Wish mmos would go back to those days!

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Lansid

 I've seen quite a few people display their dislike for World of Warcraft because of how it lacks "hardcore" content.

Well my questions are, "What hardcore games do you play >>currently<< since WoW is below your expectations?" and "Why do you consider your game Hardcore?"

 

Fire fighters are hardcore, policemen are hardcore, A soldier fighting for his/her country is hardcore. No such thing as a "hardcore gamer" Once someone designs a MMO that has a death penalty that makes someone drive to your home and put a gun in your face for dying then we can call those guys hardcore.

As for "Hardcore" games? ehh no such thing either.

Certain games may take more research to play well and hold a bit more risk when dying but every mmo is the same.

Easy.

 

Hmm so you compare real life with games lol.

Nope,  just sticking it to these lame self proclaimed "hardcore gamers" that think they're superior to everyone because they log in 40+ hours a week and avoid the outside world.

You make me laugh :)

Hardcore gamer: Hardcore gamer is a widely used term applied to describe a type of video game player. There is currently no unanimously agreed upon definition for the term (see Usage section). Some describe hardcore gamers as those whose leisure time is largely devoted to playing or reading about video games. This type of gamer prefers to take significant time and practice on games, in contrast to a casual gamer. Many hardcore gamers pride themselves on mastering the rules or use of a game, although this is not a strict requirement. Conflicting opinion argues that it is not so much the time spent on games however, as casual gamers can spend hundreds of hours on games without ever mastering them.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer for the 2 reasons stated above, I play a lot and I try to master the game I play.

BTW for your information, I play 40+ hours a week, have my own business, have a beautiful girlfriend, I go out with my friends all the time, I also play lots of sports.  There's 168 hours in a week, so I still have time to do lots of stuff, I just don't have time to sleep lol.

To me there aren't many hardcore games left, UO, EQ, Vanguard are some of the games I would consider HC because of the time they require you to spend in front of your computer to be able to achieve everything. I play EQ2 and I consider it somewhat HC.

To me WoW is far from being HC because you can get to endgame and achieve everything in under 2 weeks. Yes you need more time to grind your gear, but that's not really content.

That is why WoW is not for me. And that is why I play EQ2 and some other games in the likes of EQ2.

Peace

Originally posted by Golarum

To me WoW is far from being HC because you can get to endgame and achieve everything in under 2 weeks. Yes you need more time to grind your gear, but that's not really content.

What, exactly do you base this on? Did you apply to a raiding guild right after reaching level 80 and go straight into Ulduar hardmodes with your greens?

If a guild actually took you in to experience this then can I see your application to that guild? I ask this, because that could help a lot of people getting to the endgame.

There's seriously no way for a regular bloke (not a player in the top 5 guilds in the world) to achieve all WoTLK content in 2 weeks even if it means you've been 2 weeks at level 80 before starting.

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by Golarum

To me WoW is far from being HC because you can get to endgame and achieve everything in under 2 weeks. Yes you need more time to grind your gear, but that's not really content.

What, exactly do you base this on? Did you apply to a raiding guild right after reaching level 80 and go straight into Ulduar hardmodes with your greens?

If a guild actually took you in to experience this then can I see your application to that guild? I ask this, because that could help a lot of people getting to the endgame.

There's seriously no way for a regular bloke (not a player in the top 5 guilds in the world) to achieve all WoTLK content in 2 weeks even if it means you've been 2 weeks at level 80 before starting.

I clearly stated that you need more time to grind your gear, to me repeating the same raids over and over in normal mode or hard mode it's the same content, different difficulty, but you're still doing the same thing.

Like PvP gear, you need to do arenas like crazy for months to be able to get the best gear, but that doesn't mean you're doing months of content, you're just repeating the same thing over and over. Same went for WAR, where when you hit 40, all you did was the same dungeon and same PvP scenarios over and over again. Which can be fun, don't get me wrong, PvPing always brings new challenges, but to me, the kind of player I am, I hate repeating the same things over and over. That's why I love games that can keep me interested for a while.

So to recapitulate, in WoW you get to level 80, you finish most of the quests, you see all zones, get to do almost all dungeons at least once in under 2 weeks. Not necessarily because there isn't a lot to do, but because it's not challenging enough so you go through content really fast.

I am not dissing the game, I am only giving my opinion based on my experience on what's the difference between a HC game and a casual game to me.

To me hardcore= you really love the game and you spend the majority of your entertainment time playing  that game.

Casual= you like it. You play when you feel like it. Sometimes alot, sometimes not for a week.

The game determines whether you are hardcore or casual. Labeling yourself prior to that makes you post on forums. Forming a hardcore guild means you'll need to start looking for another game already. Forming a casual only guild means you'll be lonely soon. Labeling yourself, screws yourself. like devs do to people they label.

Opinion o' mine.

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by Remii718

Originally posted by Lansid

 I've seen quite a few people display their dislike for World of Warcraft because of how it lacks "hardcore" content.

Well my questions are, "What hardcore games do you play >>currently<< since WoW is below your expectations?" and "Why do you consider your game Hardcore?"

 

Fire fighters are hardcore, policemen are hardcore, A soldier fighting for his/her country is hardcore. No such thing as a "hardcore gamer" Once someone designs a MMO that has a death penalty that makes someone drive to your home and put a gun in your face for dying then we can call those guys hardcore.

As for "Hardcore" games? ehh no such thing either.

Certain games may take more research to play well and hold a bit more risk when dying but every mmo is the same.

Easy.

 

Hmm so you compare real life with games lol.

Nope,  just sticking it to these lame self proclaimed "hardcore gamers" that think they're superior to everyone because they log in 40+ hours a week and avoid the outside world.

You kinda confusing obsessive behaviour with Hardcore, someone playing 40+ hours a week and avoids the outside world is NOT in anyway Hardcore, atleast not in a gamers way in my opinion.

Like others said, not use silly macro's, having freedom, doing the things the game offers not trying to do the things the company might have promissed but is not in, knowing everything about the game by simply playing t without guides or website offering walkthroughts. Getting into a raid with random professions to really get a challenge instead of the holy trinity as that makes it again to easy and is not hardcore for me.

As for what game I am playing that is hardcore, none as hardcore is a playstyle so if I want I can play any game hardcore or casual as that is totaly up to me as a gamer and not what a game might bring us players.

Heh, "hardcore" is a label, used by nerds to make themselves feel less nerdy.

"Sure, I like video games but I'm not a nerd because I'm hardcore baby!"

Yup, not fooling anyone with that 'cept yerselves.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Heh, "hardcore" is a label, used by nerds to make themselves feel less nerdy.

"Sure, I like video games but I'm not a nerd because I'm hardcore baby!"

Yup, not fooling anyone with that 'cept yerselves.

It's definitely true that one, if not the most common, use of the word "hardcore" in the context of games is:

 "I am nerd - hear me roar!"

Which is obviously a bit comical.

However i bet almost everyone on this forum uses the word "hardcore" at least occasionally in their daily life without even thinking about it. It definitely means something, or many things. Looking at the replies I think hardcore basically means "extreme in some way".

Which may answer the OP's question. WoW averages everything. The extremes are cut away to prevent any players being put off by them, whether it's extreme PvP, extreme crafting, extreme travelling, or extreme anything else. So the minority of players who want something extreme, and it could be one of many possible things, get annoyed by WoW.