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8/27/09 11:46:54 AM#21
Originally posted by Bureyku
Yes Aion is complete fluff and shallow with it's combo system, rifts for dynamic PvP, the Abyss where two factions dynamically fight over fortresses where there is a third npc faction that gets involved randomly for either side on top of the many instances both PvE and PvPvE and it's subscription payment model. CO is definitely not flull and shallow with it's almost entirely instanced sharded world, easy button mashing combat, no real penalty for anything, cash shop fluff and non fluff items, it's completely linear gameplay from beginning to end, it's no meaningful PvP, it's completely soloable advancement with hardly any reason to group, and it's hillariously shallow itemization and crafting system. It is the most stale, shallow, fluffy, and linear game in the genre. Neither of these games is all that great, but at least Aion provides a dynamic and ever changing world to play in with meaning over taking the most basic elements of WoW, CoH, and LotRO and dumming them down, tacking on a cash shop, removing any form of meaningful PvP, adding more button mashing than any game since contra for the NES, and more instancing than WoW. Let me get this into your head. Every mmo is easy button mashing combat, and CO has a big penalty for chosing stupid combinations. You don't know anything about the cash shop. It's not completely linear from beginning to end if you don't want it to be, it's not focused on PvP, soloing is for the people who have lives, and the costume system makes up for the itemization and crafting. Now, how is Aion any better? It doesn't do anything new, but wings... And your overglorifying the pvp, the same shit can be said about WAR, "Where two realms dynamically fight over zones where there is NPC's guarding and both sides can attack at any time. |
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8/27/09 11:55:03 AM#22
Interesting points Tony. I think in the end it didn't cross there minds though. That or the complexity of the mechanics were to much for them to handle. Imagine having to write animations for each and every attack set, meshed with each and every travel set. The numbers are boggling. Say you have Clobber skill and speed, a Ram CLobber skill. Jump Clobber, Overhead Slam. Teleport Clobber... well see theres a problem. What about the attacks which dont link to a travel skill? Definitions, balance and so on all pile up. I think the answer of why they didnt is simply, time and resources couldn't achieve that goal. |
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8/27/09 12:15:45 PM#23
Originally posted by demonic87
Haha alright man whatever you say. I didn't play both games in beta for months or most of the MMO's before them. I even said in my post that neither game was that great, but you probably didn't read that far before your CO fanboy nerdrage kicked in. Have fun with your shallow fluffy themepark and your micro transactions. Make sure not to screw up your character build because it'll probably cost you 6$ to respec. Let me know in a month or two when you are max level if you still think the same way. |
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8/27/09 12:20:08 PM#24
Well on a technicality, it can be argued that despite BOTH using motorcycles, Captain America and Wolverine both have the Acrobatics Travel Power...especially Cap |
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8/27/09 12:45:07 PM#25
Originally posted by Butterball
Thats what I would of said also. =)
People will always complain about something.
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8/27/09 12:48:12 PM#26
Originally posted by Techleo I agree. They probably thought about meshing travel power with combat - but there are lots of problems. For one thing, a keyboard + mouse + limited field of view is going to make teleporting to throw one punch then teleporting to throw a second punch etc very difficult to do. But, I am glad someone mentioned vehicles. Could work maybe? (If anyone at Cryptic reads this - PM me and I will send my bank account details so you can deposit my royalties! Thanks!) I tried playing Real Life but the graphics sucked, the community was annoying too. |
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8/27/09 1:00:22 PM#27
I like CO because they come as close as possible to comic book super heroes that I've read as a kid. Nobody is perfect and neither is CO. The problem are physical and technical limitations due to limitations in today's technology. |
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Originally posted by Techleo
It wouldnt be that difficult to create powers in a travel power set. Simply put, if a player picks the correct combo of powers, a new power is available for purchase. Lets say I pick clobber and teleportation. How hard would it be to simply add a teleport/clobber icon. You target your opponent and click the teleport/clobber hot key, it teleports you to the victim, uses the teleportation animations already in the game, then does a clobber, using the clobber animations already in the game. This doesnt seem like a hard thing to impliment and it goes a long way to making your character fit with its thematic powers. All this requires is adding more powers and maybe a few new character animations to the game, which in turn increases the depth of character creation. Also, they should combine powers of different characters into new moves. Example, fastball special, where colosus throws wolverine. You could add effects if the player is affected by X when Y is cast add Z. Like if you use an ice snare and someone did a fire attack on the target it could add a steam aoe effect. This would go a long way to making grouping a more viable option. There are so many ways to make this game much more complicated, in a good way. It just feels, to me, like they went as simple as possible... |
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Originally posted by Butterball
Using a motorcycle is not like the flash running over half the world in 2 mins. You exaggerate the capabilities of a motorcycle when compared to a travel power. Also, the thing the made wolverine so cool, back in the day, was that he was as close to human as you could get and still be a super hero. Wolvering was not an acrobat, nor did he move at superhuman speeds. Wolverine's strength and agility was well with in human standards, he simply had an adamantium skeleton, claws, and very slow regeneration. Cap was an acrobat, but it didnt allow him to run at superhuman speed. |
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8/27/09 1:33:39 PM#30
what would be funny is if people were unable to post anonymously on here and people turned up to their house to beat the piss out of them for something they posted. |
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Originally posted by donjuanamigo
Fitting post for someone with a punisher Avatar ;) |
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NovaKayne
Novice Member
Joined: 3/04/04
That is just my opion and we all know what THAT is good for! |
8/27/09 1:37:01 PM#32
I can understand the point.
I think you may be asking for too much at this point in the technology levels for an MMO. I mean SWTOR is just getting to the next full voiced MMO. Look at the amount of effort being put into that. You have to understand that the motion captures in the game are specific and not fluid.
You would not ONLY have to script each motion of a power but, script each potential combination of a motion that MAY happen when one is executed after the initial motion script. This can only work like that if there was a que to pile up the powers you wanted to execute and the system would then know that power A is different than B and C is the result of A comming before B but, D is the result of B before A.
While possible it would be extremely combersome and slow in its current itereation. Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them. |
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8/27/09 1:39:43 PM#33
Originally posted by t0nyd I am just saying that this game has far more potential then cryptic has ideas...
I think that's a bit silly. I'm sure Cryptic have gone through more ideas about this than you or I could ever dream up. It's easily possible to imagine all sorts of things for a game. But whether those imaginings can be implemented with technology at its current state, or with the technology Cryptic has available, is a different question. Different again is the question of whether a certain demographic would find it "fun". There are all sorts of considerations and limitations on what we can imagine. Eventually, these things will come, but only incrementally, I think. Consider this: there was a game called Battlecruiser 3000AD that was started off back in the DOS days, by this maverick guy who wanted to make a s-f game that had everything (you commanded a space cruiser, interacted with the crew, could man guns or have them manned by crew, could man shuttlecraft and other spaceships, could land on planets and have fps style combat, etc. etc.) Of course it was possible to imagine such a game, to want such a game - EVERYBODY can imagine such a game, and everybody wants such a game. But back then it was impossible to implement, and the guy tried and tried, but the games he made were just too full of bugs to be even playable. Plus, by the time he'd solved his DOS problems, along came DirectX, etc.,etc. It's all much harder than one might think, so the lack of a feature isn't necessarily because the developers didn't think of it. It was probably one of the first things they thought about. |
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8/27/09 1:40:51 PM#34
XD, quoting for the funnies! JEEZE! I logged on just to do this! BOOYAKA! |
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8/27/09 2:09:43 PM#35
Originally posted by banthis
Ok but they're not even close to hitting the mark for capturing the PnP Champions either. The PnP Champions I played was pure rpg with a wide open ruleset that allowed for doing just about anything you wanted. CO trades on that IP and gets a lot of the surface flavor but not much else imo. Not saying its a bad game, just saying it doesn't have much to do with the PnP game except the lore. |
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8/27/09 2:13:17 PM#36
Originally posted by solareus I haven't played Aion at all, know nothing about it, so I'll take your word for it, (til I get a free trial at least) but I don't think you can classify CO as any kind of a deep game. CO is fun for what it is but to me it seemed like fluff. |
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8/27/09 2:16:18 PM#37
Originally posted by dhayes68
Ok but they're not even close to hitting the mark for capturing the PnP Champions either. The PnP Champions I played was pure rpg with a wide open ruleset that allowed for doing just about anything you wanted. CO trades on that IP and gets a lot of the surface flavor but not much else imo. Not saying its a bad game, just saying it doesn't have much to do with the PnP game except the lore.
Literal translations of PnP to Video game tend not to work very well. There has to be some limit on what you can design and produce by a reasonable launch frame. People saying they dont have nearly as much vision as the game has potential are talking out of their ass we have no idea what they have planned to add to the game over time. They've delivered a fairly solid product that has enough flavor for us to get started on with the promise of more like any other MMO. Games that try to deliver the whole hog right off the bat end up like SWG and Vanguard..buggy and shitty then turned into something even worse to try and sweep it under the rug. To be honest the OP and several posters like them would rather have everything they asked for right away with no concept of how logn it'll take to produce and what sort of condition it'd be in when they get it. I'd rather there be a reasonable time frame with enough to enjoy and a promise (thats held) so more is delivered. |
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Originally posted by banthis
Literal translations of PnP to Video game tend not to work very well. There has to be some limit on what you can design and produce by a reasonable launch frame. People saying they dont have nearly as much vision as the game has potential are talking out of their ass we have no idea what they have planned to add to the game over time. They've delivered a fairly solid product that has enough flavor for us to get started on with the promise of more like any other MMO. Games that try to deliver the whole hog right off the bat end up like SWG and Vanguard..buggy and shitty then turned into something even worse to try and sweep it under the rug. To be honest the OP and several posters like them would rather have everything they asked for right away with no concept of how logn it'll take to produce and what sort of condition it'd be in when they get it. I'd rather there be a reasonable time frame with enough to enjoy and a promise (thats held) so more is delivered.
No, what I am saying is that I want a dynamic combat system right off and not, i shoot electricity, you shoot fire, we are way to similar. Guildwars uses a class/skill system and even at release it had a much more varied ability selection, with melee and ranged having its place. As of now, melee has no place in PvP in Champ... |
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8/27/09 2:51:00 PM#39
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Solareus you and a few others here are really becoming overly fanatical about CO, and I regret to inform you, CO is just as shallow.
It really depends what part of the game you're looking at. When it comes to character development, Aion has no talen specs, no power or spell choices, no attributes to raise. Even Aion's Manastones and Stigmas are extremely limited. CO has a couple orders of magnitude more possible outcomes in character development than Aion does. There is really no comparison. Its like night and day. Aion is possibly the most shallow MMOG I have played when it comes to character development while CO is one of the most complex (but still falls short of DDO IMO).
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8/27/09 3:11:59 PM#40
In short... because CO did not emotionally move me. Good comics do. There should be more to your character and it's connection to the world than go pew pew. The LOTRO books are very good examples of good story telling. I never will forget this story climax, where the Fellowship leaves Rivendell and I am one of the honorary guests, talking to each of them, as I met them often before and worked for them and with them. All those LOTRO book quests gave my char and my connection to the world such emotional depth. In CO, no quest takes longer than 3-5 min, its all WOWish fetch 20 of this quests. Quite a yawnfest in terms of story, emotion and depth. When I read about Captain America or Batman, I FEEL with those chars. In CO... I am no hero, I am just number xxx kill bad guys type. I don't fight crime in my personal way, I mow criminals down. Ever noticed that practically no Superhero KILLED his enemies? And we kill low criminals even, by the thousands. I have watched the re-run of Teen Titans these days, and when Robin and his fellows fought villains, it was always cool. Sorta. But fighting the villains in CO myself, it was... less cool. Usually I waited my END to build, did my power attack and so on. So I made the same 1-2 attacks over and over and over. In Comics, combat is more like a coreographed thing. In CO I smashed my powers, the villains smashed theirs, and I never felt this epic, coordinated feeling like the Hero combat of comics at any time. |
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