When reminiscing about my favorite comic book characters, I came to the conclusion that cryptic does not read comic books. I first started collecting comic books around the Secret Wars (marvel) era. I am not much of a DC fan. You had Spider man with his agility and web slinging. You had the Hulk with his dense flesh(the hulk did not regenerate), strength, and jumping great distances. Then you had Captain america with his jack of all trades style and a shield. Wait a second, you mean Captain america didn't have a travel power? Wolverine, oh noes, he didnt have a travel power.

 I believe that the way cryptic uses travel powers breaks the comic book theme its trying to emulate. If you notice, travel powers are an integral part of the way a hero fights(in comic books). Nightcrawler didn't just use teleportation as a means to travel. Nightcrawler was an agile melee combatant that used teleporting as a means to defend and assault a foe. Spiderman used his webbing not only as a means of travel, but also as a defensive and offensive tool. How many times did spiderman save someone from falling to their death, by using his webbing. How many times did nightcrawler teleport a friend to safety.

 With Champions, travel powers are simply, travel powers. Yes, you can telport away from someone to get away. Yes, you could teleport near someone, then melee them. Sadly the mechanics are very clunky and the travel powers and attacks just do not mesh well. Personally I would like to see combat teleporting, where you click it and it teleports you to your victim OR defensive teleporting, where you click a friend, then teleport and bring him along for the ride. Id like to see combo powers where if you pick up a melee kick ablity, it could combine with the teleport to give you a teleport kick combo. The same can be said for the swinging travel power. Why not have a swinging super kick/punch/tackle. I am not a fan of DC, but I did like the flash. The flash was a speedster and he didnt just run fast, his travel power was his power. The flash didnt just run fast, he punched and kick fast as well.

 I believe the quest system  lacks depth and breaks theme. I would rather cruise/fly/swing around the city and find random crimes happening, then stop them. I would rather sit near a scanner and wait for the police to talk about a crime, then head out there to stop it. Hell, this sounds like a comic book to me. In this way, you may also, just by happen stance, run into another hero that just happens to be trying to stop the same crime. Then you and that hero either help each other OR you argue and bicker over it. Sounds like a comic book to me. Or we can just run up to the dude with an exclamation over his head, thanks a lot warcraft. Also do not act like a couple PQs is ground breaking. There is a way to take Warhammers PQ system an expand on it greatly, its like cryptic just copied it and put little effort in improving it.

 The costume designer was awfully limited when trying to design a thematic character that wield a weapon. I decided to create a character that used a bow. There was a single bow option. So if you wanted a character with a high tech bow, an ancient longbow, a crossbow, your shit out of luck. I began to wonder, how many other weapons lacked options. Lets say I wanted to make a cowboy with dual pistols, are there six shooter options? Maybe I want to make a punisher style character, are there m16a1 or 9m sig/beretta options or am I stuck with 1 pistol to use? Even CoX has a small amount of options for changing the look of your bow...

 A lot of my ideas shouldnt be hard to integrate into a Comic book themed MMO and lets be honest, if you have ever read a comic book, they would already be in the game. Cryptic, what in the hell were you thinking...

[edited to include questing]

[edited to include weapons visuals]

Champions is its own IP...they're following the IP for Champions PnP its not supposed to perfectly emulate comic books.   BTW you don't HAVE to take a travel power .. they dont have any travel powers related to vehicles yet so...well thats your choice if you want to run slow as hell for life.

Why does everyone have to bitch when things aren't done the way they think they should be..I personally like the travel powers.  If you want to zoom up on someone quickly take super speed and you CAN use teleport in combat...but to keep it from being over powered they have to nerf it otherwise your a god and thats kinda a game ruiner when everyone just takes the best travel power for pwning in pvp.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3016895#3016895

muff said.

Originally posted by banthis

Champions is its own IP...they're following the IP for Champions PnP its not supposed to perfectly emulate comic books.   BTW you don't HAVE to take a travel power .. they dont have any travel powers related to vehicles yet so...well thats your choice if you want to run slow as hell for life.

 The point is, that by not taking a travel power, you totally gimp yourself. If you could decide not to take a travel power and by doing this it alotted you more points to spend on your character in other ways, then yes, not taking a travel power would be a viable option...

At the end of the day a superhero in a comic is not defined by his/her powers, they are actually defined by their actions and how they put their remarkable abilities to use..... CO is a sterile and simplistic avatar creator because there is zero conviction in the things that really make a comic book character what they are....the massive customisation is simply not supported either by valid world mechanical responses or by a conceptual conviction in the theme.

I believe that when Cryptic came to making CoH there was a design goal to realise a comic book or superhero game that came up against real world limitations of the game, at its heart there's a flawed superhero game and somehow better than the sum of its individual components for that reason..... in CO the design goal just comes accross as a checklist of mmo staples without regard for theme or imagination, it has no heart or soul and is considerably less enjoyable and enganging than it should be as a result.

I've posted something similar on the CO forums back then.. My idea to correct the travel powers issues would be, in my opinion, to get flight, teleportation, etc.. into a power frame like fire, ice, strenght...

So yes, you could fly and teleport as a way to travel from point A to B, but you could as well use your power in combat... Skill 1 in teleportation would take you, for example, close to the enemy and perform a melee attack... Skill 2 would make you pummel the enemy while teleporting all around him...

There would be some power frames without any travel powers, that's just how it goes in comic books... But like the OP said, there could be a way to get the ones with a travel power to "carry" the ones who don't have any...

Anyway, just my 2 cents... CO still have the potential to become a great Super Hero game. I'll probably give it a real shot in a couple of months...

Originally posted by Kebeck

 

So yes, you could fly and teleport as a way to travel from point A to B, but you could as well use your power in combat... Skill 1 in teleportation would take you, for example, close to the enemy and perform a melee attack... Skill 2 would make you pummel the enemy while teleporting all around him...

you can use travel powers in combat, do you even play Open beta ? LOL as well at level 20 you pick a second travel power so you CAN fly and teleport .. LOL tribblke trabble from the Aion flamer base trying to be the true troll shady LOL . Go fish :)

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day a superhero in a comic is not defined by his/her powers, they are actually defined by their actions and how they put their remarkable abilities to use..... CO is a sterile and simplistic avatar creator because there is zero conviction in the things that really make a comic book character what they are....the massive customisation is simply not supported either by valid world mechanical responses or by a conceptual conviction in the theme.

I believe that when Cryptic came to making CoH there was a design goal to realise a comic book or superhero game that came up against real world limitations of the game, at its heart there's a flawed superhero game and somehow better than the sum of its individual components for that reason..... in CO the design goal just comes accross as a checklist of mmo staples without regard for theme or imagination, it has no heart or soul and is considerably less enjoyable and enganging than it should be as a result.

 I agree with this entire post. The idea of creating a comic book hero is, its all about the theme. You imagine this comcept, imagine how/why they have their powers, and then imagine how they would fight. Conceptualization meets random powers. instead of well thought out ideas that mesh well together, it just feels like chaos. I am by no means saying this game is horrible or doomed. I am no doomsayer, I am just saying that this game has far more potential then cryptic has ideas...

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by tyanya

 

 

Aion is complete fluff and shallow. Champions online , is a superhero game, and it delivers. 

Most likely Aion will have a great sub base because there are more people who like fluff and shallow then something that is actually good.

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by Kebeck

 

So yes, you could fly and teleport as a way to travel from point A to B, but you could as well use your power in combat... Skill 1 in teleportation would take you, for example, close to the enemy and perform a melee attack... Skill 2 would make you pummel the enemy while teleporting all around him...

you can use travel powers in combat, do you even play Open beta ? LOL as well at level 20 you pick a second travel power so you CAN fly and teleport .. LOL tribblke trabble from the Aion flamer base trying to be the true troll shady LOL . Go fish :)

 Do you even read what is written or just spout nonsense? Simply because had issues with Aion and posted about them, how does that change anything, What Kebeck is describing, is meshing travel powers with the powers they are associated with, like ice sliding with ice. Then adding combat maneuvers that mesh with the travel power.  How hard is this to understand?  Yes you can use superspeed in combat, but does it allow you to punch and kick real fast? All travel powers do is make melee half pointless due to people poofing as soon as someone hits them in melee. It forces you to take shit like ice snares and roots instead of following a theme..

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day a superhero in a comic is not defined by his/her powers, they are actually defined by their actions and how they put their remarkable abilities to use..... CO is a sterile and simplistic avatar creator because there is zero conviction in the things that really make a comic book character what they are....the massive customisation is simply not supported either by valid world mechanical responses or by a conceptual conviction in the theme.

I believe that when Cryptic came to making CoH there was a design goal to realise a comic book or superhero game that came up against real world limitations of the game, at its heart there's a flawed superhero game and somehow better than the sum of its individual components for that reason..... in CO the design goal just comes accross as a checklist of mmo staples without regard for theme or imagination, it has no heart or soul and is considerably less enjoyable and enganging than it should be as a result.

So, to summarize, even if someone makes a character that looks exactly like Batman, they'll never *be* Batman...just one of a pack of superheroes that look like Batman.

Which is pretty much the problem I have had with the concept of MMO superhero games.  No matter what, you'll never be as cool as the ones in the comic books.  A character in a comic book will have a set skill set from the point of creation, it will all follow a theme.  In a game such as this, there will be no theme, other than 'what can I choose that will help me fight other superheroes better?"

My detection of trolls is unmatched, your slight of tongue and miros may fool followers , but they don't full me. Keep up the good work though. :)

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by tyanya

 

 

Aion is complete fluff and shallow. Champions online , is a superhero game, and it delivers. 

Most likely Aion will have a great sub base because there are more people who like fluff and shallow then something that is actually good.

Solareus you and a few others here are really becoming overly fanatical about CO, and I regret to inform you, CO is just as shallow.  They unlocked the power slider on CO...  they added a hit or miss mechanic for combat that many CB players told them they didn't like up front, and there is sufficiently enough content to last an average player 1 month of play without starting over.  I don't say this because I haven't played all the way through the game, because I have, even with the minor polish changes they've made before launch, it hasn't changed the content.

CO isn't a bad game by any means, but in comparison to other games, its not any less shallow,  in the sense of the word I would almost feel as if it is more shallow that the main focus is directly related to PvE combat and only PvE combat.  Crafting still needs some polish with items, and PvP is still a wreck.  Again, when I played CO I enjoyed my time, but noone should say that AION isn't a good game in comparison, because it obviously is.

Originally posted by solareus

My detection of trolls is unmatched, your slight of tongue and miros may fool followers , but they don't full me. Keep up the good work though. :)

 Next time you read the link you posted. My reply is in red. I figured that was obvious...

 See DC Universe Online for my of an action oriented "true" comic book experience. Champions, from all the accounts I've read seems more of a spiritual succesor to the City of _____ line that NC Soft now controls. 

Originally posted by Books

 See DC Universe Online for my of an action oriented "true" comic book experience. Champions, from all the accounts I've read seems more of a spiritual succesor to the City of _____ line that NC Soft now controls. 

 I just cant get into the cheese that is most DC characters. Most seem to lack any flavor what so ever, green lantern, superman, guy with a bow, yawn...

Originally posted by t0nyd

 

 When reminiscing about my favorite comic book characters, I came to the conclusion that cryptic does not read comic books. I first started collecting comic books around the Secret Wars (marvel) era.

Thats totally weird. Maybe they don't read your comic books.

The ones put out by Stan Lee seem to be about as cheesy as this storyline to me. Just how I like it.

The tutorial mission when aliens invade the city and they need to me save a cat while trying to save real people, and the over the top "Iron Clad Defense!" stuff?

Yah. Thats what I remember. World spanning in the Canadian North or the Radioactive Desert. Yah, thats where the heroes always ended up. Places like that.

As opposed to the alternative, City of Heroes "Go beat up three thugs and get the codes" in their tutorial mission,  oh and you can never leave this city by the way" versus the world-spanning CO, I'd say the CO people seem to have read more comic books. If your beef is that you can't make a canon DC marvel character precisely following their formula? give me a friggin break, no one should even imagine thats the goal here.   They are running the line between a fun/balanced game and letting you feel like a super hero of your OWN creation, not creating the universal formula for creating Batman and Spiderman at the precise time you read about them in their comic book.

Wolverine has a travel power. Its a motorcycle and various X-men jets/helicopters. He would be very gimp if he had to walk everywhere.

And yes, travel powers are somewhat limited. The technical limitations and balance issues required for MMOG's prevent them from being EXACTLY like the ones you see in comics. But for the most part, they are very very close. Storm flies around and casts lightning bolts. I can do that in CO. Nightcrawler teleports and I can do that to. CO gets about as close to the comic version as I have ever seen in any PC game. I think that IP and copyright issues may prevent them from making things too obvious. Something like a spiderweb swinging type power replacer may cross the line.

Originally posted by Malakhon

Originally posted by t0nyd

 

 When reminiscing about my favorite comic book characters, I came to the conclusion that cryptic does not read comic books. I first started collecting comic books around the Secret Wars (marvel) era.

 

Thats totally weird. Maybe they don't read your comic books.

The ones put out by Stan Lee seem to be about as cheesy as this storyline to me. Just how I like it.

The tutorial mission when aliens invade the city and they need to me save a cat while trying to save real people, and the over the top "Iron Clad Defense!" stuff?

Yah. Thats what I remember. World spanning in the Canadian North or the Radioactive Desert. Yah, thats where the heroes always ended up. Places like that.

As opposed to the alternative, City of Heroes "Go beat up three thugs and get the codes" in their tutorial mission,  oh and you can never leave this city by the way" versus the world-spanning CO, I'd say the CO people seem to have read more comic books. If your beef is that you can't make a canon DC marvel character precisely following their formula? give me a friggin break, no one should even imagine thats the goal here.   They are running the line between a fun/balanced game and letting you feel like a super hero of your OWN creation, not creating the universal formula for creating Batman and Spiderman at the precise time you read about them in their comic book.

  

 You didnt happen to read the rest of my post did you? You know where I talked about travel powers and combat? Your post is fully of plot, which I didnt even touch upon. I also didnt say that I wanted to create a clone marvel or DC character. I said that I wanted to create a character based upon a theme and that travel powers are a big part of that theme and more about power than simply travel. Its funny how people selectively ignore sections of the post...

Originally posted by solareus

Aion is complete fluff and shallow. Champions online , is a superhero game, and it delivers. 

Most likely Aion will have a great sub base because there are more people who like fluff and shallow then something that is actually good.

Yes Aion is complete fluff and shallow with it's combo system, rifts for dynamic PvP, the Abyss where two factions dynamically fight over fortresses where there is a third npc faction that gets involved randomly for either side on top of the many instances both PvE and PvPvE and it's subscription payment model. 

CO is definitely not flull and shallow with it's almost entirely instanced sharded world, easy button mashing combat, no real penalty for anything, cash shop fluff and non fluff items, it's completely linear gameplay from beginning to end, it's no meaningful PvP, it's completely soloable advancement with hardly any reason to group, and it's hillariously shallow itemization and crafting system.  It is the most stale, shallow, fluffy, and linear game in the genre.

Neither of these games is all that great, but at least Aion provides a dynamic and ever changing world to play in with meaning over taking the most basic elements of WoW, CoH, and LotRO and dumming them down, tacking on a cash shop, removing any form of meaningful PvP, adding more button mashing than any game since contra for the NES, and more instancing than WoW.