I have certainly noticed that most people I have talked to that have roots in UO and MMOs based on PvP after that, typically do not care much for WoW. I personally did not enjoy WoW whatsoever, it felt way to dumbed down, cheesy, something my 10 year old niece would play.

Then again, there is not very much that I have truely enjoyed after playing UO. Sure there were a few that held my interest for a couple of years, but nothing that really captured me like Ultima Online did. I hate these new theme park MMOs, they are so incredibly restricting. That is why I cannot wait for Mortal Online and Fallen Earth, these "sandbox" games pay homage to the father of MMOs and actually let the player do what they want, instead of being told "you will be a cleric and heal!".

I've played WoW on and off since the near the end of beta. I agree 100% with you that PvP in WoW is and always was an afterthought. This is proven by the numerous changes to the PvP system over the years and the fact that it wasn't introduced until late beta.

With that said, I think WoW took the basic principles of MMOs and polished the hell out of them. This made for a game that didn't feel "new and exciting" but was so well put together that it made all other games feel dated. I think too many people who bash WoW do it because it's reached so many people and isn't your typical niche game. It's simplicity brought the genre to the masses and while it has been dumbed down way too much as the xpacs have rolled on, they did make it more friendly to people who can't spend hours upon hours per day on it. My biggest gripe with the game is the fact that after 4+ years, they still have yet to balance PvP between the classes, and I don't think they ever will. You can see they cater to PvErs just because of how easy they made getting PvE weapons and items and the fact that for so long PvE geared players were completely blowing up PvP geared players.

For me, the fun in WoW has faded, but there really isn't another MMO on the market currently that will be able to give you the feeling that you are able to accomplish something with having a little bit of play time each day. I did a few Aion beta events and I will be honest that it's getting hard for me to get excited, because I was not a fan of Lineage II or any Korean type of MMO and the game just comes off like one to me.

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

Originally posted by vgjunkie

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

Wow was my first MMO and I was completely addicted to it for a couple of years.  It was all new to me and I couldn't believe the size of the world, the fact that the initial character cut scene was the actual game were all astounding at the time.  The music and production values were so professional, I was impressed.

After all these years WoW has become even more dumbed down and I've just lost all interest.

Aion is not like other MMOs.  It is stable and from what I saw, virtually bug free.  As this is just the NA release and the game has been in production for so long in Asia, I think release will be quite different than what you are used to.  The only problem I can see is if the game is more popular than NcSoft has expected leading to laggy servers.  We'll see if they can't work out that final problem in OB.

No, I never liked WoW, but then again, I never liked UO or Everquest either for that matter. As soon as the Devs began sacrificing game-play for graphics the entire genre has been going downhill. Aion will probably follow in these footsteps. Flame away kids.

Originally posted by Bjornulve

No, I never liked WoW, but then again, I never liked UO or Everquest either for that matter. As soon as the Devs began sacrificing game-play for graphics the entire genre has been going downhill. Aion will probably follow in these footsteps. Flame away kids.

My only flame is: why post in a thread with a game you didn't like and a game you don't plan on playing?

My first MMO experience was UO. That was also the best experience to date. Even so, I lost interest about the time Age of Shadows was released and haven't been back since. I moved on to Final Fantasy XI after that, despite the major differences in the two games. I've been a FF fan since I was a child, and Square has been THE company I respect more than any other out there, hands down. After burning out with FFXI, though, I still have yet to find a good game that I truly feel connected to. I've tried Vanguard, Tabula Rasa (which, despite several flaws, had some really cool design ideas), LOTRO, Warhammer, various F2Ps and others I can't recall. WAR was the closest thing to keeping me entertained since I'd never really experienced such an attempt at organized RvR. I was impressed at first, and I still have some fond memories, but the flaws are just too glaring.

When I finally broke down and submitted myself to the WoW trial, I was sorely disappointed. I had hoped that I had been wrong all those years, that just maybe there would be something of value to it since millions of people were glued to it. I played 2 days of the 10-day trial before I could no longer stand the railroad track, candy-coated version of the Warcraft world. I had hopes that the world from the RTS series (up to Warcraft II) would be more prominent, but they obliterated it with Warcraft III and WoW. The artsy, comical style, the silly dialogue, the babysitting; it was unbearable. Warcraft was a gritty, dark and fierce world. The conflict was bloody, the heroes were demented, the story was deep. Until they decided to re-market the franchise.

I have a lot of respect for WoW outside of it's gameplay and style. Blizzard has found a killer recipe for attracting new gamers to what was once an obscure and niche genre. Most major gaming publications didn't even have a section or a column about MMOs before World of Warcraft came along. As bad as it hurts to say it, WoW put MMORPGs on the map. Unfortunately, though, it is doing nothing to mature those new MMO gamers into respectable gamers and is giving many the impression that all MMOs are supposed to cater to their every whim. No one wants to be challenged anymore, it seems.

Everyone is saying that Aion is the "spiritual successor" to Lineage II, or is effectively L3. Well, that's all fine and good, but what if it turns out to be the game that moves the gamers who were introduced to MMOs through WoW into the next step of maturity? What if this is the game that brings us out of the moronic and self-destructive cesspool and takes this now massive community of MMOers to a new level? Is that an ambitious and likely overly-optimistic thought? Yeah, maybe it is. But it is time for the WoW kids (not every former WoW player is a "WoW kid," btw) to grow up, and what better way to do it than through a game that feels similar to WoW but introduces them to a whole new world?

Originally posted by Whitetree

My first MMO experience was UO. That was also the best experience to date. Even so, I lost interest about the time Age of Shadows was released and haven't been back since. I moved on to Final Fantasy XI after that, despite the major differences in the two games. I've been a FF fan since I was a child, and Square has been THE company I respect more than any other out there, hands down. After burning out with FFXI, though, I still have yet to find a good game that I truly feel connected to. I've tried Vanguard, Tabula Rasa (which, despite several flaws, had some really cool design ideas), LOTRO, Warhammer, various F2Ps and others I can't recall. WAR was the closest thing to keeping me entertained since I'd never really experienced such an attempt at organized RvR. I was impressed at first, and I still have some fond memories, but the flaws are just too glaring.

 

When I finally broke down and submitted myself to the WoW trial, I was sorely disappointed. I had hoped that I had been wrong all those years, that just maybe there would be something of value to it since millions of people were glued to it. I played 2 days of the 10-day trial before I could no longer stand the railroad track, candy-coated version of the Warcraft world. I had hopes that the world from the RTS series (up to Warcraft II) would be more prominent, but they obliterated it with Warcraft III and WoW. The artsy, comical style, the silly dialogue, the babysitting; it was unbearable. Warcraft was a gritty, dark and fierce world. The conflict was bloody, the heroes were demented, the story was deep. Until they decided to re-market the franchise.

 

I have a lot of respect for WoW outside of it's gameplay and style. Blizzard has found a killer recipe for attracting new gamers to what was once an obscure and niche genre. Most major gaming publications didn't even have a section or a column about MMOs before World of Warcraft came along. As bad as it hurts to say it, WoW put MMORPGs on the map. Unfortunately, though, it is doing nothing to mature those new MMO gamers into respectable gamers and is giving many the impression that all MMOs are supposed to cater to their every whim. No one wants to be challenged anymore, it seems.

 

Everyone is saying that Aion is the "spiritual successor" to Lineage II, or is effectively L3. Well, that's all fine and good, but what if it turns out to be the game that moves the gamers who were introduced to MMOs through WoW into the next step of maturity? What if this is the game that brings us out of the moronic and self-destructive cesspool and takes this now massive community of MMOers to a new level? Is that an ambitious and likely overly-optimistic thought? Yeah, maybe it is. But it is time for the WoW kids (not every former WoW player is a "WoW kid," btw) to grow up, and what better way to do it than through a game that feels similar to WoW but introduces them to a whole new world?

Unfortunately I don't have much more to contribute other than you are my favorite person on these forums so far.

I loved WoW. DAoC was my first MMO, and WoW was second. I loved it for over 3 years. But I think Aion is next in line for me in terms of keeping my attention longterm.

Originally posted by Tekkin

For those who are thinking "tl;dr" I'll sum this post up by saying Aion appeals to me for these 3 reasons:

1. PVP Factor - PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought, although I enjoy raiding and it is an essential part of end-game content... for me its just a bonus. The real thrill is PVP. I've mainly played lineage 1, lineage 2, EVE online, and Planetside. All these games have something in common... they are PVP Orientated! I have zero interest in "PHAT LEWT" or "SLAYING DA DRAGON". I enjoy raiding... but NOT as the primary end game content! PVP in WoW felt like an afterthought.

2. (Hopefully) Group factor - It seems AION won't punish you like WoW does for grouping with other players, its quite possible it might actually be beneficial to PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE! This is a big one for me... When I played 1-77 in WoW (Yah I quit at 77) I never once grouped with other players, you know why? Because every time I tried it slowed my leveling down HUGE, leveling was boring enough without it taking twice as long. Seriously I think its pathetic how anti-social people are when playing MMO's... which is why the developers are forced to cater to you social rejects who are afraid of interacting with other people even on the internet.

3. Graphics - WoW graphics made me sick from the very beginning, I read on the WoW forums people dissing Aion graphics... SERIOUSLY... WOW PLAYERS DISSING AION GRAPHICS... boggles my mind. No need to explain this any further.


I'd like to hear some stories from people about their first experience with WoW... and why it never caught on for them. Also why or why not AION Appeals to them.

    This is mine.... My roommate suggests we buy WoW (this was 4-5 months before WotLK Release), so I say F*ck it lets play WoW (I had been avoiding the game since release). The first 2 months I had the game I could barely get myself to play it... I'd been there and DONE THAT... 2 feet away from me my roomate can't put the game down. Why? The dudes never even played an MMO before, or an RPG for that matter. WoW brought MMO's to the masses... william shatner, ozzie osbourne (seriously?)... but the reality is, theres nothing unique about WoW. I never hit level 80, I simply quit at level 77... because I realised the game felt like a chore for me, nothing pulling me along.

 WoW was a game for the masses who had never heard of an MMO before... does anyone know what I mean? how many people can say WoW was their first MMO.. that is why WoW was so successful. Its blizzard... how many fans did they already have... how many kids knew what an MMO was before blizzard was developing one.

 

WoW was one of the only MMO's I played for many years. Mainly due to the fact that SWG was destroyed before I got the chance to really immerse myself. Anyway back on topic.

I will be straightforward. Pre-BC I enjoyed WoW alot, I stayed up for many hours grinding away. But during and after BC the game has taken a turn for the worse. I no longer enjoy the game like I used to, mainly for the fact, there is no challenge anymore. The only challenges left are to do end game dungeons. And WoW has never changed the fact that if u want to do hardcore end game content you need a guild. But end game guilds wont even look at you if you dont have the gear quite up to snuff, but you cant get the gear without a guild, do I sense a loop here?

I played Aion during Beta honestly expecting it to be another Asian piece of crap (No offense intended). But was surprised to see how deep the game actually was, and I only got to lvl 10. I can only imagine what the game is like beyond that.

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah, the fact that you have to compare this game to WoW is silly, and frankly hate all you want but they are probably going to end up being similiar as far as the amount of people who like/dislike each game.

 

Of course you're not going to like WoW. Clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular... you said yourself that you had avoided WoW since launch... so your reaction is no shock.

your an idiot, the whole point of my post is talking about the fact that MOST people who have a taste for PVP and a lot of prior experience with the MMO Genre generally look at wow and say...  Been there done that. This isn't a wow hate post, just a clear example of the distinct differences of some peoples tastes. A person like yourself couldn't FATHOM that someone wouldn't like WoW, your obviously a complete fanboy from the sentence "clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular..." douche. I don't HATE WoW, Its a great game... for most people. NOT ME.

Originally posted by scodavis

Originally posted by vgjunkie

Also, I'd like to say that WoW was not my first MMO. I played a ton of them before and after WoW, so my judgement of WoW is not clouded by it being my first. I hope Aion can pull off the PvP card, because WAR was a big disappointment in that department. But also as a veteran MMO player, I know that I should avoid Aion like the plague for the first month or 3 until they iron out the kinks, because that seems to be the biggest trend for MMOs these days, putting off players because of buggy and unfinished game content/mechanics. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard for me to give the game another go.

 

Wow was my first MMO and I was completely addicted to it for a couple of years.  It was all new to me and I couldn't believe the size of the world, the fact that the initial character cut scene was the actual game were all astounding at the time.  The music and production values were so professional, I was impressed.

After all these years WoW has become even more dumbed down and I've just lost all interest.

Aion is not like other MMOs.  It is stable and from what I saw, virtually bug free.  As this is just the NA release and the game has been in production for so long in Asia, I think release will be quite different than what you are used to.  The only problem I can see is if the game is more popular than NcSoft has expected leading to laggy servers.  We'll see if they can't work out that final problem in OB.

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Edit: It seems most people enjoyed WoW when it FIRST came out, before the expansions. Maybe thats what ruined it for me I didn't play until a few months before WOTLK, I hit 60 and just continued on to 70. A lot of the PRE BC dungeons did look interesting but I never got to experience it. Maybe if I had given it a chance when it first came out I might have enjoyed it... Then again I was too busy playing lineage 2 at the time.

Oh and I garuntee anyone that Aion will die if NCSoft doesn't controll botting and hopefully tame gold farmers, Lineage 2 was a great game but NCSoft let it die from this exact same cause, the botters literally ruined the game.

Originally posted by Tekkin

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Grind is not difficulty. The ability to will yourself to go on, despite soul-numbing boredom is not skill.

Mainstream MMOs will never focus on skill, because it limits the market too much.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Tekkin

I love this post, it proves my point. I can feel your excitement as you first entered the world of warcraft. If I had never played an MMO before the addiction levels to WoW probably would have surpassed my greatest addiction ever (Diablo 2). But no, I came from lineage 1, lineage 2, and planetside before I ever touched WoW... Lineage games were too hardcore... but they still catered more towards my tastes than WoW could ever hope to, maybe its because I'd grown used to the thrill of hardcore PVP and then a sense of accomplishment from an overly difficult game.

Grind is not difficulty. The ability to will yourself to go on, despite soul-numbing boredom is not skill.

Mainstream MMOs will never focus on skill, because it limits the market too much.

Your right, see Lineage 2 on paper was an amazing game, but it was ruined by botters and the soul-numbing boring grind.

If you took aion right now and added the Lineage 2 grind, along with the hundreds of botters from lineage 2. Aion would fail amost instantly.

Oh, also for people who did not know, this game has already been released....in Asia, for over a year now.

So yeah, it is very polished, just like a lot of MMOs that have been out for over a year. The only reason it is in beta for NA is to work out the kinks of translating the game and making some minor tweaks to make it work in the American market.

Definitely a plus in my opinion, but not a valid arguement when it comes to comparing it to other MMO releases.

I loved wow before the crappy BC and they destroyed a good game, but no I have Aion and I love it.

Originally posted by Tekkin

3. Graphics - WoW graphics made me sick from the very beginning, I read on the WoW forums people dissing Aion graphics... SERIOUSLY... WOW PLAYERS DISSING AION GRAPHICS... boggles my mind. No need to explain this any further.

WoW's graphics stands true to WC3. Aion graphics cater weeaboo's

 My first MMO was FFXI, after about 4 years I burned out on it and went back to it several times up to and including now. I haven't really found a game I like better since, and I know I am a PvE player.

I didn't like WoW when I first tried it, I leveled a character to level 22 then quit. My irl friend was playing WoW and that was probably the only reason I tried it. After about 4 months I decided to reactive the game since I was just so burnt out on everything and I did end up liking it since it had a decent bit of things I could do (being a level22 and taking the game slow was why) I got used to the cartoon graphics after my second go around with WoW and they did give somewhat of an appeal after awhile even though I prefer very dark games.

I got my first taste of what PvP was like in an RPG with WoW and needless to say I did not like it, I hated the feeling of always having to 'one up' a person instead of working with them, and not being able to relax in open world while I minded my own business. I know some will say PvP in WoW isn't PvP but now you're just spliting hairs, it isn't the kind of PvP it is, it is the feeling I get from PvP in general. FFXI was soley PvE and I loved cooperating with others to achieve results instead of fighting with them.

Aion appeals to me mainly because I am burnt out on everything that is out there right now. I am still not sure how I feel about the forced PvP since I like to relax while I play MMOs after a long day, but I am going to give it a try never the less.

@Whitetree.

I'm sorry about how WoW may have turned out for you, and how you see the majority of players become very immature is true. But you need to realize not everyone of those players are that way. WoW has and probably always will have a very nasty Elitism system in a way. The good thing is the majority of the players at the top of this chart aren't that bad of people. And their great players. It's the middle and low tiers of this elitism chart. The majority of them are kids either around my own age or very far under that believe that they are better, just because they play every day after school etc.  And I'm glad your just like many other's were their first mainstream mmo is FFXI. I loved the game in concept years after I played it. Just couldn't ever get into it. One of my buds stuck with it and he is still into it. I have always loved Square Enix's product, but in retrospect to your respect I utterly hate the company as a whole. First of all they fucked up FFXII, second of all the western hemisphere wants their games just as much as the eastern and it's bull we tend to have to wait up to 6 months for each one were other japanese games we don't have to, and third of all they tend to have a period of time were the stop making the sequel to a game and make prequels and in-betweens. Which is fine, but they need to make those prequels and in-betweens availible to the public before the sequel comes out. Don't get me wrong Square Enix is still the best rpg company out there... Just their trademark style of releasing games is gunna piss any westerner who loves thier games. Now I know your probably thinking why aren't you pissed a NCsoft with AION. Thats because its an MMO. My idea of an MMO is taking as long as you want... Cause when I play it I want it to already be fun enough with minimal glitches.

Originally posted by Tekkin

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah, the fact that you have to compare this game to WoW is silly, and frankly hate all you want but they are probably going to end up being similiar as far as the amount of people who like/dislike each game.

 

Of course you're not going to like WoW. Clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular... you said yourself that you had avoided WoW since launch... so your reaction is no shock.

 

your an idiot, the whole point of my post is talking about the fact that MOST people who have a taste for PVP and a lot of prior experience with the MMO Genre generally look at wow and say...  Been there done that. This isn't a wow hate post, just a clear example of the distinct differences of some peoples tastes. A person like yourself couldn't FATHOM that someone wouldn't like WoW, your obviously a complete fanboy from the sentence "clearly you had contempt for it, probably because it was so popular..." douche. I don't HATE WoW, Its a great game... for most people. NOT ME.

Sorry but your insulting response makes it easy to sum you up. :) Honestly what was the piont of your post if not to zealously shout that one game sucks, and how this one will forever chage your life.  If Aion is successful and achieves popularity there will be a new generation of trolls burn who will make post like these solely to denigrate it as well.

I don't play WoW now but when I did it was a fun game. Well polished with something always to do. I was never forced to just PvE or PvP, but played the way I wanted.   WoW is a game that has something for everyone, which lead to it being so populer. Why is that such a bad thing? How do you think Aion, or any other future title will change that? 

Originally posted by Tekkin

Originally posted by maji

1. PVP Factor - PVP
PvP was an afterthought in WoW, because it was basically shipped without PvP. And I personally think PvP in MMORPGs is boring. If I want to play vs other players, then I prefer something like TF2, where the group with the better teamplay and higher skill wins, and not those who spend thousands of hours of grinding.

2. Group factor
In WoW you frequently group up with other players to do group quests or tackle dungeons. Grouping up for single player stuff doesn't make much sense. No idea why anyone should do that either, and it was this way for any MMORPG I played.

3. Saying that WoW graphics make you sick is weird. In general, every graphics artist and designer can tell you, that those working for WoW do a great job. Sure you can say the engine is dated, but graphics making you sick? That is no argument or opinion but just something you say to flame and troll

 

I think this whole "I'm a Aion fanboy and hate WoW" and "I'm a WoW fanboy and hate Aion" stuff is so silly, immature and childish. WoW is a good game. Aion might be a good game as well, it's not out yet in USA or Europe, so hard to say. Both games are rather shallow and aiming at the masses. Who cares as long as it's fun. But these fanboy-battles are just ridiculous.

 

 

1. If you don't like PVP in an mmorpg, I guess you would prefer WoW then. I can understand why people might prefer the PVE factor, but for me PVP is the best part. And there is skill involved, its not just about who grinded the most.

2. Fine by me if you don't want to group with other people while questing... but I play MMORPGs for the social factor... i mean come on its the entire point of an MMORPG. Why should I level slower while grouping with my friend than some lone wolf who levels SOLO. I played WoW too... I KNOW its primarily a solo game and unfairly biased towards solo players.

3. I simply meant I think WoW graphics are ugly as sin, again just a difference in opinion I guess. I'm not a troll.

Nor am I an AION fanboy, I think too many people throw the term fanboy out to ANYONE who makes an argument towards one side or the other. Yeah there is such thing as a fanboy... but they won't provide any intelligent argument.

1) So this game doesnt have any Good Large Scale PvE in it? Sounds lame like Guild Wars's PvE. WoW has both Good PvP and Good PvE, for people that like doing both.  I want to know,,, will AION have the same. Iam not a PvP hater nor a PvE Hater. I want Both.

2) Wait, so are you saying that Characters Cant Solo? You Mean like Guild Wars Does it? OH SHITTT THATS WACK!!!!!! Please Tell me this isnt the case!!!!

3) I dont care about Graphics, aslong as the game has Smooth Animations. WHich WoW has, and IMO WAR's Classes dont. Can I attack and move at the same time, or does the character stop moving everytime it need to swing a weapon?