Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

Actually, I would hope more companies would "piss all over" the genre. It has become too stagnant. We need companies that diversify and move to different directions.

Three games in this genre that I am looking forward to are (and yes, I have grown to dislike generic fantasy):

1. Global Agenda

2. Star Wars: The Old Republic

3. The Secret World

All different concepts and all will be MMOs.

Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game.  Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?

 

Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's.

You should clarify that as true hopes for you. I have no interest in those 2 and I know of many others who feel the same.

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

Actually, I would hope more companies would "piss all over" the genre. It has become too stagnant. We need companies that diversify and move to different directions.

Three games in this genre that I am looking forward to are (and yes, I have grown to dislike generic fantasy):

1. Global Agenda

2. Star Wars: The Old Republic

3. The Secret World

All different concepts and all will be MMOs.

Yep. It's either the complaints about pissing all over the genera and changing things, or copying WoW and being a clone. It's about it being single player with co-op where you can play lots of solo, or it's about it being an MMO and not KOTOR3 and having to play with and see other players. It's complaints about it being linear and on rails, it's complaints about fear of it appealing to SWG vets with to much taken from that game.  Which one is it? Everyone claims to be correct, what if it's really all of the above?

 

Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online are the true hopes for MMO's.

 

You should clarify that as true hopes for you. I have no interest in those 2 and I know of many others who feel the same.

True.  There is a very saturated market of AAA themepark titles.  It's a shame this has to be another one.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Revthought

I am not really understanding all of the hate directed at people who are concerned with the direction of this game.

 

Every game has it's blind fanbois and haters alike. The haters just hate, and the fanbois defend the game against any possible misgiving someone might have about the direction of the game. We see this sort of thing with every upcoming and released game. The blind will always be blind, just ignore them.

Been doing that for a while now thanks.

Originally posted by Revthought

I am not really understanding all of the hate directed at people who are concerned with the direction of this game.

 

I'll be honest with you all, I'm one of them. I've followed the game, and watched it since it was announced. What I've seen so far has me excited. So, yes, I *will* be in line with you all on release day.

 

The problem is that the game, with the limited information that is available to us, looks to be a massive single player RPG with multiplayer functionality and an complex hub.

 

This raises some serious issues for those of us who take our MMOs seriously. It seems like, while the story parts will be fun (and I look forward to them), that there is going to be relatively little to justify a monthly fee. I've worked in MMO development before, and I can honestly say that there is only so much "story" that can be crammed into a game like this. Eventually, and it might take a month or two, we're going to be running the same missions over and over again. If we group at all we'll see a lot of the content faster. This is a problem because, other than the "story" bits, bioware has given us nothing.

 

There is not one word about what "end game" will look like. Not one word about how pvp is going to work. Not one word about the server architecture. Not one word about some of the sandbox elements a lot of EVE and former SWG players would like to see. 

 

And to answer some of you, no. I trust bioware implicitly when it comes to making single player Western  RPGs. They are, at this moment in time, the best in the business. What I'm not sure about is their ability to build and sustain an MMO. What they do works very well for single player games, and there are a lot of potential problems (as stated above) with trying to build a Massively Multiplayer Game around what they do.

 

Furthermore, I think that it is MORE than fair to point out the failings of EA, which now owns and operates Bioware. EA's track record is CERTAINLY on the table for discussion. And so is Lucas Arts for that matter, since they control the license and are almost certainly playing a large role in development.

 

-R

It isn't directed at folks like yourself who have rational points. It's directed at the folks who do stupid drive by posts like "WOW ripoff" or repeat the same tripe over and over again in every thread.  Those aren't rational people who have genuine concerns for the game. They're trolls and they deserve to be treated as such.

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by storyless

Originally posted by solarine

Why so cynical?

Has Bioware done something that I'm not aware of in the past to earn such cynicism? 

 

 

 

 

No, Bioware have not.

Burt the hands of their lords and masters at LA and EA are red with the blood of  a thousand dashed hopes and dreams.

Cry me a river drama queen, this isn't a debate over health insurance, it's just a game. If I used your foolish tactics on every MMO game I disliked, this site would be full of my angry rantings. Thing is if I don't give a shit about a game, I'm not gonna waste my time talking about it daily.

I'm starting to think you are actually in love with this game, like the school kid who pulls the pony tails of the girl sitting in the desk in front of him because he likes her. No way in hell you aren't interested in TOR with as much time as you spend posting about, you and the rest of the wanna-be haterz are drinking this shit up good and bad. 

If what you are really trying to do is ruin BioWare with your antics like you think you did with SOE, good luck with that, you would have better luck hitting Mars with rock shot from a slingshot. Besides, if you were to throw an angry SWG vet convention at this point, like 2 people would show up to give shit. xD

In closing, if you really think you know everything there is to know about SWTOR, and you know for a fact it will suck, and you hate it, why not just move on then?

 

Pull the cork out of your sphincter, fanboi. Personal abuse helps no-one, does it? This is a discussion forum and everyone is allowed to express their opinions, even if they disagree with yours.

It looks extremely like SWTOR is NOT going to be an MMO but a very simple sub-FPS adventure game. I'm not going anywhere because I want to be here when SWTOR is launched so I can see your pathetic spnning followed by your nervous breakdown as SWTOR turns out to be much less than you have pimped.

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

Bingo!

MMO....not MMO

IDFC...I have played many Bioware games and haven't found one yet that I didn't thoroughly enjoy.

If your definition of an MMO is "EVERYONE must be in the same instance" then go play that game. I for one don't want to be stuck in the same instance as 200 tounge lolling button mashing anorexic ritalin junkies screaming roflcopter, ipwndjoo, stfu, and other irritating tripe.

I want an enjoyable gaming experience. IDC if it has instances. I had a blast playing guild wars in countless too late nights doing PVP.

So weather or not it has instances or not is moot to me, I'm buying it.......because I trust bioware to make a product that I will enjoy, I loved the gameplay video, and I like the class based mission system/storytelling.

I think it will be an awesome title.

And now for something completely different . . . . . .

Has there been any indication if this will be run on multiple server “Worlds” or one unified server world like Eve?

It would be nice to have another game where I don’t have to worry about a server transfer if I want to play with my friends.
 

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

:)

Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.

 Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok?

Are the developer's words evidence?  Yes, and no.  When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence.  Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released.  Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves.

So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features?  No.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs.  There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games.  I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO.  I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones.  No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game".  To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA.  What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part.  It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something.

Originally posted by demalus

 Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok?

Are the developer's words evidence?  Yes, and no.  When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence.  Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released.  Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves.

So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features?  No.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs.  There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games.  I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO.  I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones.  No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game".  To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA.  What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part.  It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something.

I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. 

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by demalus

 Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok?

Are the developer's words evidence?  Yes, and no.  When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence.  Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released.  Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves.

So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features?  No.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs.  There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games.  I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO.  I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones.  No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game".  To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA.  What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part.  It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something.

 

I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. 

And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof.  Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof.  Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is.

edit: For clarity's sake, I'll reiterate what I was getting at.  It's not that there are absolutely no MMO features in the game.  I don't believe that this is ACTUALLY a single player game being sold as an MMO - it is not at heart an MMO experience.  The MMO stuff that will be part of this game is poorly conceived and tacked on just to fit the marketing needs of selling "The next big MMO!"

Originally posted by demalus

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by demalus

 Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok?

Are the developer's words evidence?  Yes, and no.  When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence.  Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released.  Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves.

So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features?  No.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs.  There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games.  I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO.  I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones.  No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game".  To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA.  What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part.  It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something.

 

I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. 

And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof.  Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof.  Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is.

A 20 minute demo of lowbie areas and a low level Flashpoint is proof of absence? 

If we were 2 weeks close to release and this sort of thing is the only stuff we had, then I would agree with you. As is, this game is half a year or more from release. Which means half a year or more in which they can show other things to us...like maybe the rest of the game. 

Theoretically you could be right. But presenting that as fact is silly at this point in time. 

Originally posted by Narshe

Originally posted by Ruyn

This is coming from one of the biggest star wars fans.  This game is a poor excuse for an MMO.  Bioware is pissing all over the genre.  GTFO!

:)

Over the genre? No. Over diehard sandbox/SWG fans? Yes. Because they're in the minority no matter how loud they are, and for a game of this scope and budget, it'd be suicide if they went down that path, especially in the post-WoW generation. They are not investing hundreds of millions and targeting the mainstream audience for nothing.

 

I still think it's a poor design decision.  You look at it like there is all of this potential upside for instanced themepark MMO's.  You neglect to say that the current instanced themepark MMO's are saturated and destined to fail.   Fans of AAA sandbox  MMO's are frothing at the mouth for a good game and IMO far likelier to succeed.  Also, the themepark fans are maturing and wanting more from MMO's these days.  Things that sandboxes can offer.  Why would a person want to leave one themepark can go straight to another?  Go from one carrot to another? 

Originally posted by demalus

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by demalus

 Let's use our advanced hominid brains and make conclusions based upon available evidence, ok?

Are the developer's words evidence?  Yes, and no.  When screenshots, movies, and the actual launch come out, they become the real evidence.  Whether or not we trust the developers isn't too important now because some videos are starting to be released.  Yes, the game isn't nearly done yet - but it has been in development for quite some time - so those of you who actually think this game is going to significantly change from now until its release (unless it releases in 3+ years) are just fooling yourselves.

So I ask the question, has there been one single shred of real, hard proof (i.e. screenshots, videos, etc.) that this game has any meaningful MMO features?  No.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, KotOR, and MMOs.  There is however a reason that I *used* to play MMOs over mere single player games.  I loved KotOR, but it simply does not compare to a good MMO.  I am not concerned that this will be a bad KotOR or that this game won't be fun - I am concerned that this, being the next big thing that it is, will influence more pseudo-MMOs to be made over real ones.  No one* would be complaining about this game if it were a "Grand Coop KotOR game".  To tack on all of these poorly conceived marketing features (HEROIC, LEGENDARY COMBAT // THE NEXT WOW) is a testament not to BioWare, but to LucasArts and EA.  What I really don't understand about all of this is why people are so adament on this game not only being great, but the next great MMO when it is so clearly lacking enthusiasm for that MMO part.  It's like the person in the room that no one likes but they bring the poor sap along so they can get into a concert or something.

 

I'm gonna say what I said in another thread: Absence of proof is not proof of absence. 

And I'm going to say what you quoted: There is plenty of proof.  Pretending there is no proof does not mean there is no proof.  Go watch the 20 minute demo that was recently posted and tell me where the MMO is.

edit: For clarity's sake, I'll reiterate what I was getting at.  It's not that there are absolutely no MMO features in the game.  I don't believe that this is ACTUALLY a single player game being sold as an MMO - it is not at heart an MMO experience.  The MMO stuff that will be part of this game is poorly conceived and tacked on just to fit the marketing needs of selling "The next big MMO!"

Bioware dosen't do half assed games

Bioware is making an mmo

Bioware won't be making a half assed mmo

Grndzro looks like it to me.

Bioware is only in the level design phase, they haven't even finalized classes yet.

You guys are crying doom and gloom about game features that aren't even programmed yet.

silly huh?

Originally posted by grndzro

Bioware is only in the level design phase, they haven't even finalized classes yet.

You guys are crying doom and gloom about game features that aren't even programmed yet.

silly huh?

Are you serious?  The game is very far along - they have all the classes, but they haven't announced them yet.... do you really think the announcements coincide with when they actually finish stuff?  This game has been in development roughly since 2005 (2006 when it really kicked into gear).  The game - will not - change significantly from what you are seeing in the videos coming out.

silly huh?

---

Originally posted by tillamook
A: Yes, Star Wars: The Old Republic is a MMO, or “massively multiplayer online game”. Star Wars: The Old Republic will allow thousands of players to explore, adventure, and fight in a single game session.

www.swtor.com/info/faq#347

Q: Can I play alone?

A: While there are some tasks that cannot be completed without the cooperation of others, the majority of the game can be accomplished by playing alone.
www.swtor.com/info/faq#348
 
So see there you have it, it's an MMO. And unlike EQ2 you won't always need to recruit 5 friends to get beyond level 40, but some tasks will require a group. Seriously, I doubt BioWare is gonna spend nearly 200 million to make a co-op play game and omfg LIE TO US ALL. If this is a co-op game, then so is WoW, so is SWG pre-cu, since you could play that entire game solo.  What some of you folks state is only YOUR opinion not fact, the above FAQ I highlighted is fact.
Will there be instances? sure, no more or less than in any other MMO game out there today I'm sure. Will they make use of phasing? I'm sure, they have talked about it. Most likely most of the content instances will be in the early stages of the game and heroic content. Keep in mind EQ2 had shit loads of instance zoning, more than a lot of games, but oh yeah because you had to recruit 5 people to run a Heroic encounter, that made it an MMO.
I'm willing to bet a lot of games here on this site would lose their MMO card if the standards were set by angry SWG players, which they aren't.
 
That is all.

---

I've always respected what Tilla has to say, and this is no exception. Furthermore, if you doubt the gameplay aspect go to www.swtor.com and check out the newest video released about the gameplay and how grouping works. The game looks like its something that will deliver in story, character growth and development, and allow for some serious depth and immersion to the game.

So many people go on about how they get immersed in a game, I've never felt immersed in an MMO. Its reading of text, go here, kill this, bring back 10 bat wings, rinse repeat. This game, from the videos on the official website, really feels like there is immersion to the game. There is personalization and what you do affects YOUR world in the game. No more slaying Onyxia 1238102938102938 times, only to have her come back in an x-pac.

Originally posted by demalus

Originally posted by grndzro

Bioware is only in the level design phase, they haven't even finalized classes yet.

You guys are crying doom and gloom about game features that aren't even programmed yet.

silly huh?

 

Are you serious?  The game is very far along - they have all the classes, but they haven't announced them yet.... do you really think the announcements coincide with when they actually finish stuff?  This game has been in development roughly since 2005 (2006 when it really kicked into gear).  The game - will not - change significantly from what you are seeing in the videos coming out.

silly huh?

whats silly is all you mongoloids trying to post stuff on a game that you dont know about. you spout off stuff like its the gospel or something because you watched a video or read some post somewhere. i seriously doubt anyone knows anything about how a MMO is made and what they can or cannot do as far as changing stuff in game. that 20 minute video everyone watched could be drastically different once the game launches. if you dont work for bioware on this game, you dont know what youre talking about.