Hey Everyone...

I had an idea for a TRULY persistent / ever-changing MMO world that I'd like to get opinions on... And while I'd love to keep this idea to myself and create my own game with this system, I am no huge mega-million dollar corporation with the ability to just say "Go" to a project like this and have it be off and running.  Thus, I figure I will share my idea and hopefully, in the future, actually see one of these big companies implement something like this.  For, as I see it, this idea is what I personally feel that almost everyone is truly looking for in an MMO game!  And, in truth, I'm pretty sure this idea isn't really "new."  But, I just haven't, YET, seen anything like this in any of the MMOs that I have played.  So without further delay, here is the idea....

To craft my idea into tangible concepts/words, I am going to present the idea as though I am some made-up company who's just created an MMO of my own... and thus, my made-up game is a Modern Day Warfare MMO!  Now, being I don't know all the mechanics of what ALL goes into creating an actual MMO, I am going to just wing it and present my conceptual ideas...

For starters, two of the most important employee-categories at my company would be that of the "Story / Content Writer" and the "CPC" ("Company Player Character" as I will call them for my example). As for the actual game, the MMO would be like most other MMOs, where a player is able to create their character and choose their "specialty" (i.e. Infantry, Demolitions, Sniper, etc etc etc)... In addition, within this "Modern Day Warfare" genre, the player might also choose a particular branch of the military... and finally, they would choose which faction to join up with (i.e. the "good guys" and "bad guys" etc)... Then, the game plays out like other MMOs where the player proceeds thru a pre-designed NPC-given leveling campaign-like progression, where they go to boot-camp, etc etc etc... the details of this are up in the air...

Finally, as a player reaches the upper levels of their character, they are thrown into what most call the "end-game" aspect of the MMO.  And THIS is where my idea is implemented... This is where the "Story / Content Writers" and "CPCs" come into play heavily!  For the "Story Writers" are the one's that create on On-Going, yet Ever-Changing OVERALL storyline for this MMO World, while the "CPCs" are actual in-game characters who take on the High-Level Military Leader roles (i.e. Generals, etc etc etc)... With this, all normal players (you and me) are assigned to particular CPCs who lead us into our missions, etc... And this is where the TRULY Persistent & Ever-changing aspect comes in...

My game will no longer add "expansions" like most other MMOs do, where these expansions just feel like new "side-story" content that doesn't effect any sort of "overall story."  Instead, a single overall world-story is created to begin with, which never ends and is constantly changing BASED upon how the stories that are impleneted play out...

For example:: Say you and I join the game TODAY, but join opposing factions. We then go thru our "training" portion of the game ("leveling") and finally get into the "meat" of the game (the "end-game" aspect) where we are assigned to a particular "CPC" for our chosen Branch and Faction... We begin following the missions ("stories / content") that are assigned ("written") for us, which are spearheaded by the CPCs, and we go off and execute these missions.  In the end of each mission, there will be some sort of outcome (i.e. one side wins, one side loses)... These outcomes are then taken into consideration by the "Story / Content writers" who write new stories and content BASED on these outcomes... 

Thus, let's say several months into the game, one faction has continued to dominate; succeeding with their missions over and over, thus in a sense crippling the other faction (or factions, if there were more than two)... and the story writers all get together and decide that the other faction(s) are ready to implement a full-scale war... This new "major event" story is spread thru the game by the CPCs, where every branch / faction is prepared for war... and the event is implemented... an all-out full scale epic MMO battle, where the outcome MATTERS!  It matters, because when it's over the outcome is taken into consideration by the "Story writers" and new content is writen based on the end-results of this "event"... thus changing the overall world story from that moment on, while leading everyone in new directions based on every aspect of the gameplay that has taken place...  And thus, if anyone were to join the game AFTER such an event (or in truth, any event for that matter)... they would be joining a brand new world where they will never take part in that particular event, being as it already happened.

This is the main gist of my idea for a TRULY persistent and ever-changing MMO, where the actions of each player really DO effect in-game outcomes, thus changing an OVERALL world-story, due to the story being writen BASED on actual in-game events and implemented by actual in-game company-hired characters who spearhead the events... and, if inclined, could even take part in the events themselves...  I mean, who knows, these "CPCs" could play anything ranging from non-gameplay-strategic roles (i.e. Generals, as I said, etc.), all the way to roles such as command leaders , where they themselves get involved in the actual action of the events. The options here are limitless!

And while I have applied this conceptual idea into a "Modern Day Warfare" MMO... it could easily be implemented into ANY genre of MMO you can think of, as the main aspects of it are the two employee categories that keep the game ever-changing... the "Story / Content Writers" in conjunction with what I have called "CPCs" for this example (Company Player Characters).  If implemented correctly, this idea could give an MMO that "Lasting Feel," where individuals actually feel immersed in a never-ending world where the events matter!

In my honest opnion. this is what sooo many people are looking for in an MMO... maybe not everyone, but I know that my wife and I have been looking for something like this for years and years and have yet to see anything like this.  To us, most, if not all, MMOs fail in the aspect of creating a world that feels "alive" (so to speak).  They captivate the individual in the character creative abilities, as will as the social aspect (playing with friends / grouping / etc)... But, when it comes to making a person feel like they are involved with a overall world-story that actually changes based on events that they themselves took part in... FAIL!

Maybe I just haven't been shown the right game, but I'm pretty sure it isn't out there... but, by all means, if anyone out there knows of an MMO game like this, PLEASE let me know!!!  Otherwise, let me know of your thoughts on this idea...  I asked myself why a company hasn't done something like this, and the first answer that popped into my head was $$$$$...  I'm sure that adding a tier of employees that actually have to play in the game to keep the story running could be costly... HOWEVER, I guarantee that if any company implemented something like this perfectly, the game would be worth it's weight in Platinum!!! ;-)

Anyways... that's my idea... of which, like i said, I'm sure isn't a NEW idea... but it has been on my mind for some time, and I wanted to put it out into the world for all to see... for feedback, new ideas, tangents, etc etc etc... Who knows, maybe one of these huge mega-million/billion dollar companies will take this idea and run with it... we'll see right?

Peace everyone!  And... Respect!

-Chameleon

I like your idea, and I would like to share with you an experience I had in a game that tried something similar.

What I believe you are describing - and please correct me if I am wrong - is having paid Dungeon Masters, with the tools to create events on the fly.  I absolutely love the idea of staff from an MMORPG company actually interacting in the game as an important figure, or a huge monster, or whatever.  This is the epitome of online gaming imo; having someone responsible for creating a dynamic storyline instead of having static NPC mission givers which any challenge can be overcome with your Google-fu.

My experience of this sort of thing came from a special server in Everquest.  It was called Legends, and at it's prime it offered a lot of what you suggest.  It was a premium server, which cost around 3 times the regular subscription, but in return you had a permanent GM staff dedicated to creating dynamic events.

For example, in one popular dungeon, a SOE necromancer appeared in the dungeon and started randomly killing people.  Seemingly immortal, when confronted he would ask the player a riddle.  If the player guessed the answer he was rewarded with a very nice item (I believe I won a very large and rare bag), if he guessed incorrectly the GM killed him.

Other events were on a larger scale, for example the GMs organized a 200 man raid (many EQ players will question this, but it's absolutely true) against dragons, which were typically only done by the top guilds, but were made possible by this huge force of regular guys.

And many more.   These events occurred every day, and for a while the idea seemed successful.  After a while, for reasons I'm sitll not sure of, the popularity of the server waned and it was eventually closed down.  The quality of the GMs prose was top notch, it wasn't just some dude saying 'lets kill the big monster lol',  the GM was basically roleplaying and adhering to the game's lore as closely as possible.

I would love to see someone try something similar again.  However there are problems with this kind of thing, in no particular order:

• Players partake in the events for the sole purpose of wanting loot or a fancy title reward or something.  Knowing there's a human dictating the story and the rewards, there's a lot of begging.  'please give me an item I tried so hard!"  Sad, but it happens.
• Players get annoyed when they miss an event.  So there's a lot of 'IS THERE A GM EVENT GOING ON?" and "WHERE IS THE GM EVENT?!?!" in public chat.   SOE eventually resorted to scheduling the events in a calendar, which while practical, removed a bit of the randomness and unpredictabilty of the world.
• In order for Dungeon Masters to be cost effective, and to make the player feel like they are getting value for money, they have to deal with large groups of people.  Large mobs of people I should say, because when people are in a large random crowd they become even bigger assholes than normal.

More when I remember them, this is a few years ago for now.. But nice thread!

/gets grapling hook and starts climbing wall of txt

Sounds like an "alright" idea. but it would be to hard/expensive to ever implement.

You are talking about a game that heavily depends on live content.. I have never played a game with much live content but according to everything I heard of it, it doesn’t work well, mainly because its to expensive and doesn’t pay off. You would need a whole dozen of GMs per server. This just won’t work.

Originally posted by Recant

I like your idea, and I would like to share with you an experience I had in a game that tried something similar.

What I believe you are describing - and please correct me if I am wrong - is having paid Dungeon Masters, with the tools to create events on the fly.  I absolutely love the idea of staff from an MMORPG company actually interacting in the game as an important figure, or a huge monster, or whatever.  This is the epitome of online gaming imo; having someone responsible for creating a dynamic storyline instead of having static NPC mission givers which any challenge can be overcome with your Google-fu.

 Exactly... My idea isn't "fine-tuned" to be anything specific, but what you have described seems to be on the lines of what I've been looking for in an MMO!  And as far as the "issues" you mentioned that such a system might bring about, I believe that if I company were to create a game from the ground up based on a system like this, a lot of these issues could be rooted out...

Really, it just comes down to a company making a completely dynamic storyline for their game, and keeping it dynamic by use of,as you said, "paid DMs" who control everything... Without it, I've just been finding that mostly all MMOs I have tired become sooooo boring after a short while.  I understand that many people do love MMOs as they are, but I'm looking for that "next level" being added...

Star Wars: The Old Republic looks to be the game that I am highly anticipating, but who knows how they will handle the end-game aspect of it... But, as it stands, being it will be fully VO'ed, with a heavy push towards characters' storylines... it looks to be the MMO to be looking forward to (in my opinion)...

We'll see...  and thanks for the reply! :-)

Originally posted by Dewm

Sounds like an "alright" idea. but it would be to hard/expensive to ever implement.

Originally posted by Sengi

You are talking about a game that heavily depends on live content.. I have never played a game with much live content but according to everything I heard of it, it doesn’t work well, mainly because its to expensive and doesn’t pay off. You would need a whole dozen of GMs per server. This just won’t work.

Yeah... like i said, the money factor would be the issue... but look at comapnies like Bioware, spending millions of dollars (i'm sure) on their new Star Wars MMO. If a company like that, with the money to spend, were to TRULY put their time and money into making a game with actual LIVE and Dynamic content... I bet it could be worked out to make it profitable, fun, and utterly engaging...

I mean, as I said... implement something like this correctly, and you will have the masses running to your game's doorstep!  Don't you think?

What happens when you miss all this content because you're not at thje right place at teh right time=)  WHat happens when 1000 people show up in one place to engage in these events?

I think its an idea with huge potential but lots of obstacles to overcome in order to work successfully:

Cost Effectiveness: Is it feasible to employ a full-time team of DMs for each server yet still remain competetive in price with other MMOs?

Quality Assurance: How do you ensure that the performance of DMs and quality of dynamic content is consistently high across different factions and servers? A single bad DM could potentially ruin the experience for a large number of players resulting in reputational loss for the entire game.

Familiarity Breeds Contempt: The game would require a much higher level of interaction between players and GMs than most MMOs and that has the potential to backfire spectacularly. In the face of constant failure a lot of players will find it easier to blame their GMs (and, by association, the game) rather than look at their own performance.

Story Balancing: Perhaps I misunderstood your concept but it seems to me there could be a natural tendancy for the story-tellers to favour whichever side is the underdog. The danger is that players may eventually feel their efforts are fairly pointless because the better they do the more the 'story ' is weighted against them.

I like the idea, and infact I've made a post that is similar to it without the ingame CPC - thread link (fixed some errors). For a long time I've wished for live events that put a permanent mark on the world from as small as a city is forced to move from an ever growing danger to the destruction or coloniztion of a planet.

I don't get it...

Leaving technical issues aside,what's the point?

Only objective that will be achieved is infinite resource of quests and story line progression. How does that help anything?

Continually changing or adding content that only a few will see will only work if the server can generate it with minimal human contribution. I 'd like to see randomised dungeons with monster play. Give the monster players some time to explore and set traps before opening the dungeon. Think of the daggerfall random dungeons. Some were not solvable or were too hard for the level. I'd tolerate the problems if it meant breaking free from the current rut in mmo's.