Originally posted by TheStarheart

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

This is completely unrelated, but I love your name and avatar.

But yeah, that dudes gotta chill and not lash out at people for sure.

Thanks! 

I want to prove to the world that you can be a fan of Final Fantasy and Star Wars at the same time! (sorry)

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

No, actually, the problem is that I wanted to bring up some form of skepticism on SWTOR and the people here can't handle that one little bit without attacking someone for it and maybe if people like you would stop wasting time trying to establish some off-topic arguement, we could talk about something remotely related to the original topic.

The reason people in this thread don't like me is because I'm not willing to deal with their overused bullshit that gets posted in response to every fucking skeptic post about whatever game they're worshipping at the moment.

There's a few people trying to actually talk about the topic, maybe you should too.

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

 

No, actually, the problem is that I wanted to bring up some form of skepticism on SWTOR and the people here can't handle that one little bit without attacking someone for it and maybe if people like you would stop wasting time trying to establish some off-topic arguement, we could talk about something remotely related to the original topic.

The reason people in this thread don't like me is because I'm not willing to deal with their overused bullshit that gets posted in response to every fucking skeptic post about whatever game they're worshipping at the moment.

There's a few people trying to actually talk about the topic, maybe you should too.

If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...

Actually, just by reading the quoted posts above, anyone (except you) can see that my very first post was absolutely on topic.  You keep saying I was off topic but you FAIL to give a reason why.  I also spoke to you in a respectful manner which I thought you would appreciate considering how others spoke to you.  But now I see you are a troll, not because of your opinion, but because you feed off flame wars.  If anyone is off the topic that YOU posted, it is you. 

I never had an issue with your opinion.  I had an issue with you ignoring people's on-topic answers to your post.  Then later, your whiny reaction to me when I tried to speak to you in a civil manner (which I now see is a lost cause) about why you were ignoring the posts that directly responded to your first post.

The fact that you can't clearly tell that I was on topic is quite humorous.  I guess, your own first post is off topic lol.

Well, keep on rationalizing.  Everyone in the world is a jerk except you, right?

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...

 

Actually, just by reading the quoted posts above, anyone (except you) can see that my very first post was absolutely on topic.  You keep saying I was off topic but you FAIL to give a reason why.  I also spoke to you in a respectful manner which I thought you would appreciate considering how others spoke to you.  But now I see you are a troll, not because of your opinion, but because you feed off flame wars.  If anyone is off the topic that YOU posted, it is you. 

I never had an issue with your opinion.  I had an issue with you ignoring people's on-topic answers to your post.  Then later, your whiny reaction to me when I tried to speak to you in a civil manner (which I now see is a lost cause) about why you were ignoring the posts that directly responded to your first post.

The fact that you can't clearly tell that I was on topic is quite humorous.  I guess, your own first post is off topic lol.

Well, keep on rationalizing.  Everyone in the world is a jerk except you, right?

Yeah... Kaydinv lost my support a while ago. You know, when someone's playing devil's advocate for you, and offers you a chance of a sinking ship the smart choice is actually not shooting more holes in the boat. Though he did manage to sell me on one idea: Euthinasea. I say we let captain go down with his ship.

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

 

No, actually, the problem is that I wanted to bring up some form of skepticism on SWTOR and the people here can't handle that one little bit without attacking someone for it and maybe if people like you would stop wasting time trying to establish some off-topic arguement, we could talk about something remotely related to the original topic.

The reason people in this thread don't like me is because I'm not willing to deal with their overused bullshit that gets posted in response to every fucking skeptic post about whatever game they're worshipping at the moment.

There's a few people trying to actually talk about the topic, maybe you should too.

 

If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...

 

Actually, just by reading the quoted posts above, anyone (except you) can see that my very first post was absolutely on topic.  You keep saying I was off topic but you FAIL to give a reason why.  I also spoke to you in a respectful manner which I thought you would appreciate considering how others spoke to you.  But now I see you are a troll, not because of your opinion, but because you feed off flame wars.  If anyone is off the topic that YOU posted, it is you. 

I never had an issue with your opinion.  I had an issue with you ignoring people's on-topic answers to your post.  Then later, your whiny reaction to me when I tried to speak to you in a civil manner (which I now see is a lost cause) about why you were ignoring the posts that directly responded to your first post.

The fact that you can't clearly tell that I was on topic is quite humorous.  I guess, your own first post is off topic lol.

Well, keep on rationalizing.  Everyone in the world is a jerk except you, right?

 

 

 

Try making a post about the OP without trying to prove that I'm a bad ol' meanie because I respond aggressively to people trying to insult me. Please, go ahead.

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

 

No, actually, the problem is that I wanted to bring up some form of skepticism on SWTOR and the people here can't handle that one little bit without attacking someone for it and maybe if people like you would stop wasting time trying to establish some off-topic arguement, we could talk about something remotely related to the original topic.

The reason people in this thread don't like me is because I'm not willing to deal with their overused bullshit that gets posted in response to every fucking skeptic post about whatever game they're worshipping at the moment.

There's a few people trying to actually talk about the topic, maybe you should too.

 

If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...

 

Actually, just by reading the quoted posts above, anyone (except you) can see that my very first post was absolutely on topic.  You keep saying I was off topic but you FAIL to give a reason why.  I also spoke to you in a respectful manner which I thought you would appreciate considering how others spoke to you.  But now I see you are a troll, not because of your opinion, but because you feed off flame wars.  If anyone is off the topic that YOU posted, it is you. 

I never had an issue with your opinion.  I had an issue with you ignoring people's on-topic answers to your post.  Then later, your whiny reaction to me when I tried to speak to you in a civil manner (which I now see is a lost cause) about why you were ignoring the posts that directly responded to your first post.

The fact that you can't clearly tell that I was on topic is quite humorous.  I guess, your own first post is off topic lol.

Well, keep on rationalizing.  Everyone in the world is a jerk except you, right?

 

 

 

 

Try making a post about the OP without trying to prove that I'm a bad ol' meanie because I respond aggressively to people trying to insult me. Please, go ahead.

He did... in his first post. You should read it some time.

Originally posted by Cathalaode

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Originally posted by kaydinv

Originally posted by KupoKupopo

Kaydinv,

I am not posting to flame you.

But there have been multiple posts so far that have answered your question.  They said that if you don't kill the Captain, there are a smaller amount of invaders to battle. 

I actually think that is pretty cool.  Maybe you do and maybe you don't but it does show there are consequences.  Maybe not major ones in this one specific example but still consequences nonetheless.

So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?

 

I haven't responded to those posts because a) I'm too busy being attacked by crazy people b) the point of this thread is discuss the topic, not to answer the question for me specifically and c) somebody has already pointed out that even in those other reviews of the preview, the outcome was not that much different, which was the original concern brought up by me.

Feel free to join the actual discussion any time.

Haha, wow.

I was one of the few people who tried to have a discussion with you without insulting you and you respond with, "Feel free to join the actual discussion any time".  No wonder everyone hates you.

You know, when it seems like your having problems with a lot of different people, maybe it's not them... it's you.

 

 

 

No, actually, the problem is that I wanted to bring up some form of skepticism on SWTOR and the people here can't handle that one little bit without attacking someone for it and maybe if people like you would stop wasting time trying to establish some off-topic arguement, we could talk about something remotely related to the original topic.

The reason people in this thread don't like me is because I'm not willing to deal with their overused bullshit that gets posted in response to every fucking skeptic post about whatever game they're worshipping at the moment.

There's a few people trying to actually talk about the topic, maybe you should too.

 

If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night...

 

Actually, just by reading the quoted posts above, anyone (except you) can see that my very first post was absolutely on topic.  You keep saying I was off topic but you FAIL to give a reason why.  I also spoke to you in a respectful manner which I thought you would appreciate considering how others spoke to you.  But now I see you are a troll, not because of your opinion, but because you feed off flame wars.  If anyone is off the topic that YOU posted, it is you. 

I never had an issue with your opinion.  I had an issue with you ignoring people's on-topic answers to your post.  Then later, your whiny reaction to me when I tried to speak to you in a civil manner (which I now see is a lost cause) about why you were ignoring the posts that directly responded to your first post.

The fact that you can't clearly tell that I was on topic is quite humorous.  I guess, your own first post is off topic lol.

Well, keep on rationalizing.  Everyone in the world is a jerk except you, right?

 

 

 

 

Try making a post about the OP without trying to prove that I'm a bad ol' meanie because I respond aggressively to people trying to insult me. Please, go ahead.

 

He did... in his first post. You should read it some time.

The whole point of that post was to point that I had not yet responded to anyone talking about the other written reviews of the preview. If the point was to simply inform me of those replies, he would not have included, "So why not acknowledge the answer you asked for?" which was clearly his thesis.

Yeah, I get it, I should probably should have responded to those posts quickly but I was temporarily distracted with a bunch of assholes attacking me for being skeptic and then attacking me for getting angry that I got angry at someone that attacked me because I was being skeptic.

I would say "I've learned my lesson," but the truth is I've known the way this community acts for a long time. I guess I just had more hope for the SWTOR community. Apparently, the people here are no better than the WAR or Darkfall communities.


 

 I hope now everone can see why I didn't give the OP the benefit of the doubt. He is a blatant troll, even when people tell him he's wrong there's links showing otherwise the little kitten rolls off into a corner and cries about how all the meanies are ganging up on him instead of actually you know...hunting down the articles and educating himself.

OP gets my seal of dissaproval. Go cry somewhere else, nobody here likes you, nobody cares. Yes we're all big meanies like the WAR and Darkfall people go away.

Originally posted by veritas_X

They can only have so much branching 'choice' content, unless they make it procedural which I highly doubt.  The technology is going to limit how much choice you really have, and how many characters you can make before you're tired of the same 'choices.'

 

Apparently they can and have made it for 60-100 hrs of gameplay in the SP KOTOR games and they have stated that TOR is bigger many folds so we are probably talking about couple hundred of hours of non-repeating gameplay.

I guess we won't be tired of teh "same choices" for at least months, if not better of a year.

All right i didn't read the whole flame war above but here is my take on the choices.

I have loved every Bioware game I have played to date. So I expect TOR will be no different.

However Bioware games have always exagerated choice in their games. That is not to say that there isn't choice but to say that the impact of choice isn't always as intense as thier dipictions.

Good, Evil and Story Finallies are nice and all but major middle of the story type changes due to choice are very hit and miss in their games.

An example of exageration of choice is thier Mass Effect Game. ( I love it played through 7 times) Now its a great game and if they carry through, many of your chioces will impact MassEffect 2. MassEffect 1 after 7 playes throughs I can tell you your choices have very little impact with in the story of that single game. Saddly some of the sets of dialog that you would think give you choice and impact are in fact just text that lead to same conclusion no matter the choice. in the end MassEffect had little in the way of choice.

Now look at it like this the games was so good as to compel me to play 7 working on 8 times through even after the 4th play through i saw through the deception of choice within.

Even if the choice is esentually deception and the game play is good I say Lie to me Bioware because you know how to make me happy baby.

I think this thread needs a little more cowbell... +/'\

As I stated before, you can have negative comments or be skeptical toward a game before release. But do not start bashing a game before even trying it. Just because you may or may not have fooled into gimmicks of a game, doesn't mean other games created by completely different companies, would follow suit.

Of course an understanding of where creative marketing comes from is a good thing to have. Someone in marketing is going to want to create a big hype for their game, in fact Garret Fuller wrote a good article about this, however they sometimes overhype. Well that is the job of a marketer, to bring in as many people as possible, even if that means sometimes stretching the truth.

What most fail to see is that any stretching of the truth or lies made will be seen in an instant once you allow players into the game.

On the other hand, it seems like this new generation of MMO players just like to sit around and bash the games, because it looks COOLER to do so.

I say wait it out then criticize the game after launch. And if you don't like it, post a constructive post that has negative feedback. I'd prefer much more civilized conversation then poo flinging.

Originally posted by uttaus

Even if the choice is esentually deception and the game play is good I say Lie to me Bioware because you know how to make me happy baby.

 

Thank you for my laugh of the day. I see what you're getting at.

You don't mind being lied to a little if the game is one that is fun. Well all games should be fun. I agree Mass Effect didn't change too much depending on your choices, but it was a fun game nonetheless.

The problem with games that give you choice is, those choices can spread out into too many possibilities. And it would take a large amount of capital to pay the developers needed to create a different scenario for every single choice. Remember the movie Pay it Forward? You had to do something for another person, and not just a small good thing, but a big one. Well the number of people effected by the movement (in the movie) grew exponentially.

Even if every scenario had only two choices, kill the guy or save him, you would end up with a completely different story. For those who were Dungeon Masters for D&D (paper version) when you created a story (dungeon) for players to go through, you had to expect that they might choose something different. You would get a slightly different outcome but end up essentially on the same storyline. As a GM for a Role Play game that was based in a chat room, in the year 19XX, you had to expect different choices but you always needed a plan or way to draw them back in.

Now I am not saying that there will only be a small amount of choices in TOR, but it seems highly likely. Now I am not bashing the game, I am just giving it a critique based on past experience. I am not saying that this is true or will happen. Just my own feelings.

Originally posted by kasta

 They didn't mention the other route in the video but another site (I forget which one) was shown the same 'flashpoint' and allowed to follow both choices and mentioned what the different choices did.

I read this too, and I also can't remember where.

Originally posted by weblinkz2002

I think this thread needs a little more cowbell... +/'\

As I stated before, you can have negative comments or be skeptical toward a game before release. But do not start bashing a game before even trying it. Just because you may or may not have fooled into gimmicks of a game, doesn't mean other games created by completely different companies, would follow suit.

Of course an understanding of where creative marketing comes from is a good thing to have. Someone in marketing is going to want to create a big hype for their game, in fact Garret Fuller wrote a good article about this, however they sometimes overhype. Well that is the job of a marketer, to bring in as many people as possible, even if that means sometimes stretching the truth.

The role of marketing is to make you feel like you just made love, when in fact, you were just screwed.

They lie to make more sales. It is inexcusable for players to defend it.

I'm not sure what reality you live in but, every time someone tries to sell you somehing nowadays they are lying to you.

It is what the free market has become to expect something different from game makers is naive at best.

There are laws in some countries against false advertising, and there are also consumer advocacy groups fighting to stop unscrupulous business practices. Things like lawsuits for fraud. MMO gaming is a kind of wild frontier, but eventually, consumer rights will be addressed, because there is so much money involved.

*climbs down off his wagon*

ROLL UP ROLL UP!

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Today my friends I have an offer you CANNOT REFUSE

Myself and my fellow Professors have made an astounding discover....a discover I have been sent here to share with you fine god fearing christian folks!

Thats right ...besides my associates in Washington state no one else knows of this miraculous discovery.

Ladies and gentlemen i present to you Professor Jinxits Miracle Tonic ®

Designed by the finest scientific minds in Washington it can cure ANY AILMENT  and even purge your body of any ungodly impurities like sins of the flesh and the need for whiskey!

Now before I demonstrate this miracle elixir ladies and gentlemen join me in a prayer for all those poor souls that need the help only a god fearing christian can give!

Has advertising really changed much from the times of the wagon con men in the old wild west?

So the thread, which started off pretty low, has devolved into a treatise against the free market.  Has anyone brought up Nazis yet?  No?  Just checking.

OP: Your willingness to guess, as has been pointed out numerous times already, was already answered at the E3 rollout, as well as Comic-Con.  The immediate effect was fewer fights and a much simpler boss fight.  You are correct, you'd have to play it again to see the differences yourself.

"Does it really matter if you know or not?"  Well, does it really matter if you play the game or not?  If you don't play the game, you don't care.  If you do, then you might.  But you'll have no idea if it matters or not unless you play.

"Do the actions you take really hold that much weight?"  Not in the real world.  But in every other BioWare game, your choices matter to some degree.  No, every little choice does not result in galaxy-shattering epic changes, but the game is supposed to be far more personalized than most MMOs today.  SUPPOSED to be; of course, we won't know until it's released.

"Is this just another MMO gimmick?"  What exactly do you want?  They are claiming to create a "4th pillar - story".  What effect will that have on MMO gaming?  Large-scope, probably nothing.  They, like almost every other MMO that has come out since 2003, are chasing the mythical WoW audience.  They are going to claim grand and glorious things, if for no other reason to get you to buy a box and sign up for a month.  There's nothing false in any of their advertising - at least not yet - and there's nothing wrong with them hyping their game over above and beyond.  If they were hyping freedom, as in sandbox, the game would have a mostly different audience after it, and someone else (maybe you, maybe not, you tell me) would be claiming "gimmicks".  It's just all so much bullshit.