Originally posted by Daxamar

Originally posted by harmonica

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by Fratman

No doubt it will be carebear. They will probably have pvp servers with a lame death penalty that is nothing more than a minor nuisance. The rest of pvp will most likely take place instances much like WoW bgs.

If Bioware was going to do something innovative with pvp they would have mentioned it by now.   That's the reason they keep hyping their voice overs and character story content.-- it's new and they think it's cool.  Too bad most mmorpg players couldn't care less about it. 

This game, epic fail, will be. Mmmhmm, yes.

Knock off the carebear crap, please. I don't go around calling you a murderous thug, do I? Then how about you have the same respect for those that don't like PvP.

I'm entitled not to like PvP just like you are entitled to like it. We each have our preferences. And we can do it without childish namecalling.

 

How can any MMO fan not like PvP? What is the point of it being an MMO? The competitive spirit is lost in a game of any kind when your opponent is a computer and not a real person.

Would you only play online chess against a computer?

  Maybe some people like MMOs to Cooperate with other players, not to merely compete with them?

 Just a thought.

 

 Dax.

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

 

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

That was brilliantly put.

People that want PvP should play shooters. That is the reason playing a shooter with voice chat on is almost unbearable, it ruins the community, especially in MMOs... haven't seen a PvP MMO yet that doesn't have a rotten community.

Originally posted by Rajen

 

 

That was brilliantly put.

 

People that want PvP should play shooters. That is the reason playing a shooter with voice chat on is almost unbearable, it ruins the community, especially in MMOs... haven't seen a PvP MMO yet that doesn't have a rotten community.

Heh, that's some silly things to say is it not? You are throwing people that enjoy PvP into just one genre? Most shooters are first person, not every PvPer enjoys those sort of games. Ever played WoW? It's twitch based yes, but you don't aim. Most games that feature PvP consist of multiple actions (Abilities such as fireball etc) not aiming and clicking to put a bullet through somebodies head. I'm not quite sure what you was going for, I'm not exactly sure why you dislike PvP. But your answer for pvpers to just go play a shooter, is ignorant at  best.

A "PvP MMO" this is not, obviously. It may "feature" PvP. Is Guild Wars considered a PvP MMO? Although I don't like that game the community is pretty decent. I'm also currently beta testing a complete PvP game and the community is very helpful.  Your dislike for PvP players is pretty sad. I'm assuming somebody built a camp fire and toasted some smores.

Originally posted by Eleazaros

 

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

Are you insisting no PvP can feature Risk/Reward besides winning and losing? Are you also insisting PvP does not take teamwork. And comparing pve to sex? wow, yeah.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Rajen

 

 

That was brilliantly put.

 

People that want PvP should play shooters. That is the reason playing a shooter with voice chat on is almost unbearable, it ruins the community, especially in MMOs... haven't seen a PvP MMO yet that doesn't have a rotten community.

Heh, that's some silly things to say is it not? You are throwing people that enjoy PvP into just one genre? Most shooters are first person, not every PvPer enjoys those sort of games. Ever played WoW? It's twitch based yes, but you don't aim. Most games that feature PvP consist of multiple actions (Abilities such as fireball etc) not aiming and clicking to put a bullet through somebodies head. I'm not quite sure what you was going for, I'm not exactly sure why you dislike PvP. But your answer for pvpers to just go play a shooter, is ignorant at  best.

A "PvP MMO" this is not, obviously. It may "feature" PvP. Is Guild Wars considered a PvP MMO? Although I don't like that game the community is pretty decent. I'm also currently beta testing a complete PvP game and the community is very helpful.  Your dislike for PvP players is pretty sad. I'm assuming somebody built a camp fire and toasted some smores.

 

 

Community on a live game with PvP in it is pretty bad, every single person is just trying to one up another person or they are just camping low levels until a person signs off the game, these kinds of people really show their true colors online when given the chance (jackasses / ex-fps gamers). Funny how you said WoW as an example, that games community seems to be pretty bad due to the PvP in it

Originally posted by Velanis

 

Community on a live game with PvP in it is pretty bad

That's your opinion.

every single person is just trying to one up another person or they are just camping low levels until a person signs off the game

That's not even always the case. Some people enjoy good competition, a different difficulty then constantly repeating scripted PvE content.

these kinds of people really show their true colors online when given the chance (jackasses / ex-fps gamers).

Strait from the mind of a casualty of a gank and run I'm assuming? Please don't throw every person to like a feature into one category. Do you honestly believe everybody that takes part in PvP is like minded and does it just for the "3P1C LAWLS". Seriously stop now, before you insult more people because of something they enjoy.

Funny how you said WoW as an example, that games community seems to be pretty bad due to the PvP in it

Funny how you payed no attention to my sentence structure. First highlight = first paragraph which demonstrates the differences of PvP and shooters, I used WoW. cry about it.

Second Highlight (notice I dropped down a line GASP) = Second paragraph. Where I used Guild Wars community as a example

Move along sir.

Move along sir.

Spoken like a true pvper, "since I can't gank you on a forum or ruin some new players game experience you need to move a long, i cooperate with no one"  gg.... gg =)

k. See you later Velanis.

>.>

I personally would like to see both great PVE and even better combat PVP system in this game which is hard to get in any mmo. EVE online's first 4-5 years was a blast for pvp combat until capitals and such flooded the game and became who has a bigger fleet. But meeting people and in general the community you find on the journey was good I still speak to alot of them after almost 6 years.

IMO a game needs to focus on both to be a sucess.....

PVE/Crafting needs not only a player driven market but also a indepth crafting system where with hard work and time you are able to craft, sell and market supporting the demand which PVP  players usually cause alot of demand in this area. I do hope it's more than X amount of trade classes making the same items over and over each day....I'd like to see random luck sucess and rare items that cannot be duplicated again by a macro bot and stacks of items. Then a crafting system that makes each item different depending on luck/time/materials invested. A game called RYL had a decent idea base for this upgrade system but they corrupted it in a runes of magic style buy more upgrade fail buy more off us TY. so a decent example of what I'd like to see.

EX. Crafter or looter finds a lets call it a em.....carbine. This carbine on a scale of loot  consisting of 6 levels of rarity is a 5 on the 1-6 color rarity scale. It's nice but oh could it be much better. Now to upgrade this requires either weaponsmith skills or a weaponsmith player. Now to upgrade it you need a looted item specifically for upgrading. It will allow choices once fused and sucessful allowing the player to add in a stat they like. Each time this is done it becomes much harder to upgrade further.

Not to mention other areas of the game allowing unique items instead of seeing 300 speeder bikes about a time to time rare craft of a sith speeder? so in general I do hope it's not login craft 1000 same items and spam market.

PVP ah yes whats a game without wars, and fighting. no fun imo. Either is blob warfare lagbomb over powered realms like warhammer has casters , eve has capitals blobs, list goes on and on.....thats what steers most common folks from even attempting to see that side of the game. The days of eve onlines small roaming was the best pvp I have ever had anywhere that slowly was phased out but was fun. I'd like to see small to mid scale pvp on open areas and epic fights in seiges if they don't lag. But like warhammers move a bar to "PvP" get there lag and be owned by tons of the powerful classes with no real goal besides a hour or 2 of lag/cast/die/crash repeat.

It needs to be focused on making groups work together using combat tactics and brains to win. And if tested do the epic battles but so far I haven't seen a sucessful end game epic blob battle that has not ended in pissy players because servers were not up to par. For those who dare to die salute them and offer them unique badges/titles/weapons/armor/rides.

Now as a ending to my compulsive babble which prolly makes no sense.........

STRICT bans for ***** farmers who ruin games and those who buy off them nothingworse than seeing loveme, loveyou, loveyou2, loveyou3 all corrupting the game getting banned and back as loveme4, loveme5 you get the picture. ( ah hem eve online )

Hope my babble stirs up good chat and some of our wishlists to be seen by game masters.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Eleazaros

 

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

 

Are you insisting no PvP can feature Risk/Reward besides winning and losing? Are you also insisting PvP does not take teamwork. And comparing pve to sex? wow, yeah.

I'm just a bit confused at your reply there but I think I understand -- anytime someone puts "sex" into a message, in a way that you'd have to "bash" it... that can cause one to get all kinds of flustered.

No where in my post did I touch on risk/rewards for anything.  I stated winners and losers for PvP and the lack of those requirements in PvE.  That has squat to do with any types of rewards type stuff -- all the rewarding gig happens AFTER you win or lose, THEN they "face the consequences/rewards" for how they did.

Then I have "football" in there for a PvP style play.  The last time I checked, football took a bit of teamwork so where do you see a lack of recognition of teamwork in PvP? (Euro style "football" or US -- both are TEAM sports)

As to PvE -- 2 analogies provided.  You picked 1 and fixated.  Hmmm...  Not too uncommon for an MMO fan... Just look at a recent article on this site about how MMO's use "boobies!" to sell games.

I used that sex analogy simply to point out an area that is hard to have a loser in without getting your head handed to you by 99% of the user base -- be they for or against PvP -- and I'd say it's a pretty strong argument for a "no loser" with "good sex" as the descriptor in it...  Besides, we all know "sex sells" so it also catches the eye, as it did with you... "uph... how the hell do you pick on THAT argument?"  *snicker*

Pretty decent layout to my post when you choked on the "winner loser" counter, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Eleazaros

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Eleazaros

 

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

 

Are you insisting no PvP can feature Risk/Reward besides winning and losing? Are you also insisting PvP does not take teamwork. And comparing pve to sex? wow, yeah.

 

I'm just a bit confused at your reply there but I think I understand -- anytime someone puts "sex" into a message, in a way that you'd have to "bash" it... that can cause one to get all kinds of flustered.

No where in my post did I touch on risk/rewards for anything.  I stated winners and losers for PvP and the lack of those requirements in PvE.  That has squat to do with any types of rewards type stuff -- all the rewarding gig happens AFTER you win or lose, THEN they "face the consequences/rewards" for how they did.

Then I have "football" in there for a PvP style play.  The last time I checked, football took a bit of teamwork so where do you see a lack of recognition of teamwork in PvP? (Euro style "football" or US -- both are TEAM sports)

As to PvE -- 2 analogies provided.  You picked 1 and fixated.  Hmmm...  Not too uncommon for an MMO fan... Just look at a recent article on this site about how MMO's use "boobies!" to sell games.

I used that sex analogy simply to point out an area that is hard to have a loser in without getting your head handed to you by 99% of the user base -- be they for or against PvP -- and I'd say it's a pretty strong argument for a "no loser" with "good sex" as the descriptor in it...  Besides, we all know "sex sells" so it also catches the eye, as it did with you... "uph... how the hell do you pick on THAT argument?"  *snicker*

Pretty decent layout to my post when you choked on the "winner loser" counter, wouldn't you agree?

Eh, I'm tired as hell. I must have seen it a different way then you implied. And just so you know I was not "bashing" your sex comparison, just saying it's a pretty weird choice. Reason I brought up risk/reward is because of your example such as chess. The end result is winner/loser with nothing else to gain, both walk away with a hand shake. Where as PvP can result in certain loses, rewards. Take lake Wintergrasp for example winner gets a nice little buf and control of a instance for a few hours. And as for the football part. I may have missed that.

Originally posted by Eleazaros

 

True.  Most PvP players cannot conceive of any other motive for playing than their motives for beating someone else. They tend towards boolean extremism in this respect. Win or Lose: These are the only 2 "real" outcomes in life which doesn't quite fit most folks realities...

PvP is like chess or football  There is the  winner and the loser at the end.

PvE is like good sex or mountain climbing.  It takes teamwork where you can measure success and failure without a winner nor a loser.

 IMO, "good sex"... Who's the loser when that happens? *snicker*

So, why do something that you aren't beating someone else at?  There are plenty of good reasons and analogies.

I reject this notion out of hand. Its a very weak and poor generalization of the MMO pvp community. Most of us who like to pvp like to pvp for a myriad of reasons. 

For instance, anyone who has ever played eve would know about the number of times "good fight" is posted in local chat by both winners and loosers. The reason that most of my friends like to pvp in MMOs is because finding and killing characters with human beings behind them is far more difficult and rewarding than killing that dungeon boss for the 150th time.

Additionally, we also like having things to fight over. In EVE players have built empires. Empires that have taken thousands of players and 10s of thousands of manhours. Great wars are fought over these empires. It gives us purpose to continue playing the game. It adds a real sense of accomplishment when you come out on top.

And believe me, pvp takes a tremendous amount of teamwork. In eve you have to coordinate what's going on in the fast pased combat. You need to think of fleet composition before you go into a fight, and you need to work out your setups before you go in.

Personally, I enjoy both PVP and PVE in MMOs. And I can tell you honestly, that the same type of teamwork goes into both playstyles.

I also want to take this moment to reject the notion that those who enjoy PVP should play shooters. First, I personally hate shooters. Second I enjoy the intense amount amount of corrdination that is required to do well in MMO pvp. I also enjoy having something real to fight over, for having a penalty for losing that isn't simply spawning back at the spawn point.

revthough, actually Eleazaros is completely right. You PvP'rs just don't like admitting it because it makes you look bad.

They have said there will be PvP, which is the big reason you HAVE to choose a side for the game.  After that, we really don't know much else.  There has been mentions of Battlegrounds, objectives, and even planets just for PvP.  But no real, THIS IS IT yet.