Is far superior to the character movement system in TOR, the bounty hunter looked like old school FPS movement. And why spend all the development time/money on 100% voice in english/french/german? And have 3 choices of responses, at least you can quickly get through dialog quickly in SWG if you wish to.

Animations are still to be worked on, they do look horrible but the game isn't released yet.

Bioware have made it clear they're making a Bioware game and not a copy of everyother mmorpg out there. So what Bioware do well is voice acting and making decisions so if you don't like previous Bioware games then you wont like swtor.

Tbh though the game couldn't possibly be any worse than SWG.

 "Tbh though the game couldn't possibly be any worse than SWG."

This. TOR will be what SWG is not - a polished, well supported game by a reputable company with a massive, subscribed playerbase. It will be what it will be, a KoTOR style mmo, and that in itself will appeal to many gamers.

lmao, the best form of defence is attack right?

The utter desperation is going to be amusing to watch

Originally posted by Kazara

 "Tbh though the game couldn't possibly be any worse than SWG."

 

This. TOR will be what SWG is not - a polished, well supported game by a reputable company with a massive, subscribed playerbase. It will be what it will be, a KoTOR style mmo, and that in itself will appeal to many gamers.

Nicely said Kazara.

While I'm not a huge fan of KOTOR (I or II or the timeline) or the Bioware "style" of gameplay (just played Mass Effect - UGH!), I can't say the gameplay footage I saw was what I expected it to be. TBH, it was much better than I thought Bioware would be capable of doing.

What I saw wasn't "SWG" in quality. In SWG, walking around Eisley feels like you're in the location from the movie. The ISD LOOKS like an ISD should. The ToR video had a very distinct Clone Wars style animation to it, not bad at all, but also not the movie quality type realism SWG offers.

That being said, I think what we have left of the "SWG" style is strictly limited to the surface. Watch two Jedi fight now and tell me it's anywhere near "epic" looking. Watch a Commando shoot a HW. PvP against a naked Spy with fairy wings. Wait until a BH in bright pink Mando comes after you. Run Hoth with pink flying Ewoks following everyone...

To cling to what SWG once was is noble...but the good looks are only skin deep now.

Nah the good looks are long gone, it's just like that horrible moment when you roll over to see what was once your beautiful wife and man... time hasn't treated her very well

It's a 5 year old game, one of the best visual features was the animation, and despite trying to re-instate it with the ridiculius combat speed now it just doesn't work. While I don't like the avatar visuals in TOR, the animation and the combat will make SWG NGE look and feel even more terrible than it does currently.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Kazara

 "Tbh though the game couldn't possibly be any worse than SWG."

 

This. TOR will be what SWG is not - a polished, well supported game by a reputable company with a massive, subscribed playerbase. It will be what it will be, a KoTOR style mmo, and that in itself will appeal to many gamers.

 

Nicely said Kazara.

While I'm not a huge fan of KOTOR (I or II or the timeline) or the Bioware "style" of gameplay (just played Mass Effect - UGH!), I can't say the gameplay footage I saw was what I expected it to be. TBH, it was much better than I thought Bioware would be capable of doing.

What I saw wasn't "SWG" in quality. In SWG, walking around Eisley feels like you're in the location from the movie. The ISD LOOKS like an ISD should. The ToR video had a very distinct Clone Wars style animation to it, not bad at all, but also not the movie quality type realism SWG offers.

That being said, I think what we have left of the "SWG" style is strictly limited to the surface. Watch two Jedi fight now and tell me it's anywhere near "epic" looking. Watch a Commando shoot a HW. PvP against a naked Spy with fairy wings. Wait until a BH in bright pink Mando comes after you. Run Hoth with pink flying Ewoks following everyone...

To cling to what SWG once was is noble...but the good looks are only skin deep now.

So maybe the movement animations are a bit stiff......maybe the art style is a bit clone wars-ish....and maybe the voice acting will become a bit yawn-ish after a while of playing.

But I do believe Bioware will make a Star Wars game....with Star Wars lore and events and not made up special Imperial holidays or wierd fecked up nods to a certain Christmas television special that most Star Wars fans would rather have wiped from their child hood memories.

...and no pink flying Ewoks either.....

Unless the original post was simply being sardonic, I guess I'm in the minority here in the respect that I think that the running animation for TOR's character models is far superior to the current animation being utilized in SWG. The characters in SWG remind me of those antiquated monochromatic films in which the characters move at exaggeratedly fast speeds.

The original SWG character running animation was actually pretty good, but I can't stand the NGE running animations. I tried to introduce a friend to SWG, and the first remark he made was related to how ridiculous the running animation looked.

Also, would you guys really rather NOT have voice acting? I enjoy a cinematic experience, personally.

And, yeah, I know this is subjective, but so is every post in this thread since this is a topic related to aesthetics. (I really shouldn't even have to be reminding people of this, but it seems to prevent the confusion that typically ensues over what constitutes a "fact" versus what an "opinion" is.)

Originally posted by Cypt1

Also, would you guys really rather NOT have voice acting? I enjoy a cinematic experience, personally.

 

I just wanted to answer this from "my" viewpoint (and I'm looking VERY forward to ToR).

Honestly...I'd rather not have it. This was one of those things that RUINED Mass Effect IMO...the continuous dialogs and voice interactions slowed the game to a crawl...it was like I was reading the story, not playing it. I realize I'm probably in the minority, but I could really do without voice acting in an MMO. MMOs, IMO, are about OUR actions...not NPC dialogs and scripted events.

Do you really want to hear the same crappy line over and over and over again for the next 5 years from whatever NPC you'll need to deal with often? All I can think of are like "vendor" NPCs and the way every one of them says "Sure, let me show you what I have" and it's the dude who's voice sucked the most...so they made him the "vendor voice".

Some of it is fine...but...I'm not the least bit excited about voice acting in an MMO. MMOs are (or should be) geared towards PLAYERS being the main "voice", not NPCs.

Bioware may be able to pull it off...voice acting is something they invest heavily in with most of their titles...but what happens 2,3,4 years down the line when we have less players and less revenue coming in? Do expansions cease because the $ to invest in voice actors isn't there? Does the quality just drop off?

Since we're in the SWG forums, lets look at that game. Less than 2 years after release, they tossed almost every animation out the window to change over to the NGE...how many new animations have been added since then?

MMO history has me leery of the concept of voice acting...not because it can't be added later, but few MMOs invest into their game much after the huge initial investment they make. Things like animations, voice acting, all tend to be forgotten after a short time.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Cypt1

Also, would you guys really rather NOT have voice acting? I enjoy a cinematic experience, personally.

 

 

I just wanted to answer this from "my" viewpoint (and I'm looking VERY forward to ToR).

Honestly...I'd rather not have it. This was one of those things that RUINED Mass Effect IMO...the continuous dialogs and voice interactions slowed the game to a crawl...it was like I was reading the story, not playing it. I realize I'm probably in the minority, but I could really do without voice acting in an MMO. MMOs, IMO, are about OUR actions...not NPC dialogs and scripted events.

Do you really want to hear the same crappy line over and over and over again for the next 5 years from whatever NPC you'll need to deal with often? All I can think of are like "vendor" NPCs and the way every one of them says "Sure, let me show you what I have" and it's the dude who's voice sucked the most...so they made him the "vendor voice".

Some of it is fine...but...I'm not the least bit excited about voice acting in an MMO. MMOs are (or should be) geared towards PLAYERS being the main "voice", not NPCs.

Bioware may be able to pull it off...voice acting is something they invest heavily in with most of their titles...but what happens 2,3,4 years down the line when we have less players and less revenue coming in? Do expansions cease because the $ to invest in voice actors isn't there? Does the quality just drop off?

Since we're in the SWG forums, lets look at that game. Less than 2 years after release, they tossed almost every animation out the window to change over to the NGE...how many new animations have been added since then?

MMO history has me leery of the concept of voice acting...not because it can't be added later, but few MMOs invest into their game much after the huge initial investment they make. Things like animations, voice acting, all tend to be forgotten after a short time.

I agree, I'm also looking very forward to this game but I've played Guildwars, a game that is chock block full of cut scenes that have you and various NPC characters droning on about current events.

Now the first time you play threw Guildwars you just have to watch all these cut scenes to get the story you know?

But by the time you roll a second character you really don't want to have go threw all that again because you've seen it before..why do i have to be forced to watch them all again?

This is why Arenanet gave us a "skip cut scene" button.

But with KOTOR it doesnt seem (as yet) there is any way to skip voice acting or cut scenes and i find that troubling.

Originally posted by jinxit

*omitted for brevity's sake*

I agree, I'm also looking very forward to this game but I've played Guildwars, a game that is chock block full of cut scenes that have you and various NPC characters droning on about current events.

Now the first time you play threw Guildwars you just have to watch all these cut scenes to get the story you know?

But by the time you roll a second character you really don't want to have go threw all that again because you've seen it before..why do i have to be forced to watch them all again?

This is why Arenanet gave us a "skip cut scene" button.

But with KOTOR it doesnt seem (as yet) there is any way to skip voice acting or cut scenes and i find that troubling.

You make a very valid point. Even if I will read/listen to the cutscenes the first time through, I'm someone who is afflicted with a bad case of alt-itis so I know I'll be having to plow throw the same content repeatedly. If Bioware doesn't include an option to skip through the text in some form or another, they'll deter a lot of power-gamers from playing (or just people who want to make alts of the same class, which I do sometimes, no matter how odd it may seem).

But remember that the game is still in its pre-alpha/alpha stage, so I'm certain that Bioware will be made aware of this issue -- if they aren't already -- as the game approaches beta. How they react, however, is the pivotal point, of course.

In the KotOR games you could just keep clicking through the text to skip it in some cases. This option, while it may not be substantial enough to please some, would suffice in my case.

This thread is thoroughly derailed lol. But I wanted to chime in here and ad my two bits as to why a voiced MMO doesn't work (at least not for me).

Along with the fact that nobody wants to hear the same speech repeatedly, reading text is more leisurely. I enjoy getting to a quest giver, and reading the text,a nd maybe weighing my decision for a while before selecting my options (accept quest, etc).

With voice, pacing is key to believability. If you watch the recently released footage, you'll notice there's a time limit on your decision making ability. Not cool.

And I'm sorry, but simply put, having a fully voiced MMO is just excessive, and a waste of hard drive space.

Needless to say. I'll give it a go, and yes, it will be better than SWG, regardless of whether or not they use mo-cap tech for the animations. Animations don't make the game to me. Gameplay does. Something SWG is simply lacking in spades (but they DO have pink love cherub Ewoks, so that's good right?).

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

 

Needless to say. I'll give it a go, and yes, it will be better than SWG, regardless of whether or not they use mo-cap tech for the animations. Animations don't make the game to me. Gameplay does. Something SWG is simply lacking in spades (but they DO have pink love cherub Ewoks, so that's good right?).

It would take a dedicated team of skilled professionals to make the game anywhere near as bad as SWG currently is.  I don't think there are enough talented game developers in the entire industry to pull it off.

I'm not impressed at the voice over stuff either.  "Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish" comes to mind and it'll be just as limited, while being even more impersonal, than text quest dialogs.  (let's see it try and pronounce Xxelthiclical'ta -- nope.  It'll be race and class only in voice vs how text inserts char names).

The rest of it:  I'll wait and see.  

I like the idea of choices sticking and Bioware is good at that.  You make a choice to help or harm and you live with that choice across the game.  Depending on how they implement it, and back off for the "but... but... I didn't want to do that!!!" catering (like changing your mind on professions or "specializations" in other games)...  It has good potential as well as negative possibilities to it...

I do find the "better support" gig to be funny from some.  SWG is very complex -- as complex in game play as most others while exposing even more complexity in other areas.  It still has a larger dev staff than many of the current 'up and coming' games do.  It's the old "can't do everything folks want at an instant is not good enough" type gig.  "They still haven't fixed my pet peve though they've added tons of other stuff and changed some things I liked!!!"...  Yeah, that happens in every friggn game out there and I've yet to see any game where you couldn't find "not enough dev support!" posted -- and that includes WoW today.  You can go to their forums and find the "still haven't fixed!!!" posts all over the place with gripes about not enough support...

TOR will be more focused than SWG is.  Far less "other" outside of the more normal "go kill it" style of game play based upon scripted quest lines. So, for those that are into blasting stuff down, it'll go over well.  There are just mass questions on "the rest" that really can't be answered until the game is about ready to ship and even then...  It'll still be "wait and see" on some things (end-game content, etc..)

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

This thread is thoroughly derailed lol. But I wanted to chime in here and ad my two bits as to why a voiced MMO doesn't work (at least not for me).

Along with the fact that nobody wants to hear the same speech repeatedly, reading text is more leisurely. I enjoy getting to a quest giver, and reading the text,a nd maybe weighing my decision for a while before selecting my options (accept quest, etc).

With voice, pacing is key to believability. If you watch the recently released footage, you'll notice there's a time limit on your decision making ability. Not cool.

And I'm sorry, but simply put, having a fully voiced MMO is just excessive, and a waste of hard drive space.

 

Needless to say. I'll give it a go, and yes, it will be better than SWG, regardless of whether or not they use mo-cap tech for the animations. Animations don't make the game to me. Gameplay does. Something SWG is simply lacking in spades (but they DO have pink love cherub Ewoks, so that's good right?).

As you said, that's your opinion. It's one that I can't agree with, unfortunately. I loved KotOR (I played through the entire game four times) and practically every other game that Bioware has created. I know I'm not alone in the respect that the inclusion of voiceovers will be an enjoyable experience for many people, and this includes several veteran MMO players whom I know. For people such as yourself, I hope they (Bioware) include an option to turn off the voiced dialogue altogether so you can just read the text if you think that having voiceovers rushes you.

Originally posted by Eleazaros

"Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish" comes to mind

THAT is one of the funniest things I've read EVER! LOL :D

Originally posted by Cypt1

As you said, that's your opinion. It's one that I can't agree with, unfortunately. I loved KotOR (I played through the entire game four times) and practically every other game that Bioware has created. I know I'm not alone in the respect that the inclusion of voiceovers will be an enjoyable experience for many people, and this includes several veteran MMO players whom I know. For people such as yourself, I hope they (Bioware) include an option to turn off the voiced dialogue altogether so you can just read the text if you think that having voiceovers rushes you.

1st...you're a freak! 4 times? Wow...I admire that. I have SERIOUS gamer ADD though...which is why MMOs appeal to me I guess. They have no "end".

The other reason I'm replying is the voice over thing...I don't think you'll be able to "skip it"...I only say that because this IS an MMO and just because YOU skip it, doesn't mean the others did. But we'll see :)
 

So let me get this straight. SWG fanboy is saying that character movement in SWG is better than in some other game? Nice one!

Originally posted by Darth_Pete

So let me get this straight. SWG fanboy is saying that character movement in SWG is better than in some other game? Nice one!

Yep thats what I am saying, a game that came out in 2003 vs a brand new game and SWG movement is far superior. It will be interesting if TOR allows larger than 2 man groups as well.

Originally posted by Gutboy

Originally posted by Darth_Pete

So let me get this straight. SWG fanboy is saying that character movement in SWG is better than in some other game? Nice one!

 

Yep thats what I am saying, a game that came out in 2003 vs a brand new game and SWG movement is far superior. It will be interesting if TOR allows larger than 2 man groups as well.

Are the animations still on "fast forward"? If so I wouldn't call it "superior" and since you said character movement you can't even jump in SWG or has that changed?

Originally posted by Gutboy

Is far superior to the character movement system in TOR, the bounty hunter looked like old school FPS movement. And why spend all the development time/money on 100% voice in english/french/german? And have 3 choices of responses, at least you can quickly get through dialog quickly in SWG if you wish to.

For those that are hard of hearing and a little slow... THIS IS PRE-ALPHA!!