After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.

Some of the highlights:

"Talent trees should be more fun."  - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?

"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.

"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. 

"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.

Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. 

I want my game back, and you should too.

  "So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?"

Since when have people "thought" this out? Look up online whatever build is hot at the moment and there you go...

EVERY game is like this and it is a shame, this is not specifically unique to Warcraft.

 Obviouslly, none of you experienced WoW 1.0 raiding in all its glory. Like so many fail players these days that love the dumbing down of the game, you were the bitter ones who couldn't raid when it required skill. I hate the direction of the game, and so does my whole guild and everyone on my 10 man teams. I haven't talked to anyone who hasn't lol'd or groaned at the notes becuase the people I play with are...ya know...good.

So go collect your free epics, and I will lament the loss of my game.

On a side not, a forums is for expressing opinions. You saying no one want to hear my opinion, is an opinon. I hope that paradox didn't explode your head.

OK, maybe i am just one of those simpletons that you speak of, but you moan about losing some of the stats as it will be dumbing down too much, but then go on about how much better it was in vanilla??? A lot of these stats weren't around in vanilla, so wouldn't that be moving it back towards where it was in the first place anyway which you claim to love so much??? I'll go back to my play dough, far too taxing for me to think about!

 Arm pen was the only one that didn't exist. Enjoy your play dough.

If you don't think playing in 1.0 was more complex, you clearly didn't play a hunter or warlock pre 1.9. Now that required skill. 

---

Originally posted by singlecell
 Arm pen was the only one that didn't exist. Enjoy your play dough.
 
If you don't think playing in 1.0 was more complex, you clearly didn't play a hunter or warlock pre 1.9. Now that required skill. 

---

Hmmm, i was sure they introduced a combat ratings system somewhere along the line which pretty much revamped all the stats from 1.0, but maybe the fumes from this play dough are clouding my mind, oh well.

OP doesn't know what he is talking about. 

I really cant think of anything else to say but the above statement. 

@OP have fun trolling the most popular, the most streamlined, the most prized mmo for the western market.

Originally posted by TheHavok

 the most streamlined

Code for, so simple a caveman could do it.

Well i love WoW, don't get me wrong, the game is at its peak stages. But (being one of the few vanilla wow players now days), yes the game is much more "dumbed" down that it was earlier. Version 1.0.X, took coordination, knowing of each and every class and tactical strategy in every way.

As for now, WoW has become an mmo for the masses (the casual gamer that thinks he's hardcore). Each change that is brought about, just makes the game easier (and you can't say it doesn't). Lowering the level requirement for most things, and just plain getting rid of requirements, shows this without a doubt.

For those of you, just brought about BC and Wrath players, your welcome to what you have now. But as for us players that miss the ole BWL and all night AQ40's (fuck twins imps), we'll take our understanding and commitment some where else.

Originally posted by singlecell

 After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.

 

Some of the highlights:

"Talent trees should be more fun."  - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?

 

"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.

 

"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. 

 

"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.

 

Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. 

 

I want my game back, and you should too.

First of all, I will not tell you that whatever game you play sucks.  MMO players have turned into something like sports fans where their mmo is like their "team" they cheer for and I don't understand the mentality.  However, can you please not post garbage like this and insult people that play wow?
 

mmkthx

Originally posted by singlecell

 Obviouslly, none of you experienced WoW 1.0 raiding in all its glory. Like so many fail players these days that love the dumbing down of the game, you were the bitter ones who couldn't raid when it required skill. I hate the direction of the game, and so does my whole guild and everyone on my 10 man teams. I haven't talked to anyone who hasn't lol'd or groaned at the notes becuase the people I play with are...ya know...good.

So go collect your free epics, and I will lament the loss of my game.

 

On a side not, a forums is for expressing opinions. You saying no one want to hear my opinion, is an opinon. I hope that paradox didn't explode your head.

Dude, before you start saying you're to good and you you're old school blah blah blah... read this

Account Created: 15 February 05 19:15 CET ... Thats what says in my wow acc

Can you please now try explain me how was 1.0 raiding so skilled when for example, a druid would spend 4 hours mostly spaming his HT rank 4 and most all classes had half the abilitys they got now? Not counting the fact that raids with 40 ppl, 10 would just be bad players, 5 slackers, 2 offline and you could still clear the instance.

Did you also failed to realise that 4 years have passed and lot of ppl now play this kind of games? And do you also forgot that Blizzard dont want their costumers to be idiots like you, that think they got skill cause they spent 8 hours per day logged in for 4 consecutive years? If you try to take on a normal life.. like sports, studys, girls, boys, whatever you like.. or all at same time. Now you can and still enjoy this awsome game?

get lost

Love the topic title as i 100% disagree with you - it's not dummbing down at all it's putting it back to were the stats should be in the first place - BASELINE

As said in the press bit - Theres too many added bonus stats theres days, basically it was done so we had to find yet MORE gear to farm, I'm a vanilla players and i hated having to lug about 2/3 sets just so i could tank and dps on my warrior - all the added stats just made it worse then base stats like Spirit weren't touched at all.

Dumb? hardly - making the game and item stats make more sence more like..

As for the people who claim how 'great' vanilla was - did you every run a raid? Why do you think most of us quit with Naxx? It was too damn stressful organising 30 people to lazy to sort themselfs out and have 10 others spoonfeed them

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Alright first off Your not the brightest bulb. Secondly, no one cares about your opinion. From what we have seen everyone, including players who hated lich, are excited and intrigued by the new expansion. Also armor pen was way way way too mathy thats a fact. If you wanna spend countless hours to see how much armor pen would increase someone dps then by all means go for it.

This is a completely incorrect statrement... I've played WoW since Feb 2005 and this xpac has me extremely underwhelmed. I saw the trailers and saw the same old graphics without an attempt to update them. No new classes and questionable decisions on the class/race combination decisions - Troll Druid, when have trolls been at one with Nature? Two new races, whoopee - but if you've played for any length of time you've already played these classes with existing races so nothing new there either. No improvements to crafting so end game you're stuck with the usual scenario of raid or pvp. A complete lack of variety... Blizzard, I know my opinion is inconsequential, but I'm disappointed.

    I'm all for a simple equation for stats like armor pen......I'd prefer the game do the math for me ...after all I log in to have fun...not  crunch numbers..I get enough of that at work..so it has nothing to do with my personal capabilities or education level.  One of the reasons I'm looking forward to trying Champions Online....because as a tabletop RP...Champions was a royal arse-throbbing pain to make a character for...and most players...(who apparently never realized what a roleplaying game really is)...would sit and number crunch every detail to maximize  damage...so yeah..sorry....I'd rather have the game program do it for me...I'm paying enough already ..we all are..other than logging in and playing...that's all I should have to do. 

   As far as "free epics"..or "welfare epics" which a previous poster mentioned....I believe those who only have PvP gear from BGs ...probably did just as much grinding for their gear as most raiders or arena....essentially the whole game is a time sink/grind...so what fucking difference does it make how you do it?....The BG stuff is perpetually outdated anyway...if that is what  someone settles on..they'll never have better gear than you whiners...that should make you happy that u never lose your uber coolness. Instead you bitch because some players...can grind in a manner that you do not prefer....and get gear that is not comparable to yours. If someone with BG gear beats you in your arena or uber raid gear or can hold their own in a raid...then they're just a better player  than you.. If that can't happen....then what's with the huge bug in your arses?

  And the last post says there was no upgrade in graphics. It does look like they added some nice touches here and there..but it wouldn't be practical to risk eliminating a large portion of your subscribers because they won't or can't upgrade their PC for WOW because Blizzard decided to do a complete graphic face-lift.  It looks like they may have refined some textures ....they really need to add some shadow effects that enhance the look and feel of your character..that would be nice. Give the world a little more mass.

 I'm not insulting anyone, Blizz IS insulting EVERYONE. It is clear that they believe we are too dumb to handle the game. They have been "streamlining" the game since 1.9, and it sickens me. 

It is still obvious that people complaining about 1.0 never experienced true hard core raiding. I was the Hunter class leader in a guild that cleared all 1.0 content. If you think it was easy, or lacked skill, it is because you neever saw Twin Emps, C'thun or Naxx40. I can't count how many nubs I've pugged Naxx with in Wrath who all think Naxx40 must have been super easy because look how dumbed down it is now. This is the same kind of downie's logic you are using.

Naxx is actually the perfect example. It was difficult, and actually took the top 1% of guilds a long time to clear. Naxx in it's new incarnation is a loot pinata cleared just 1.5 days after Wrath launched. I just don't see how you can continue to argue that as WoW becomes more "streamlined" it requires more skill, more thought, more effort. It just DOESN'T. 

The game has gotten easier, and is going to become a game for toddlers in 4.0.

Originally posted by Slampig

  "So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?"

Since when have people "thought" this out? Look up online whatever build is hot at the moment and there you go...

EVERY game is like this and it is a shame, this is not specifically unique to Warcraft.

 Yeah I found this statement to be BS as well. Well thought out spec? Who is he kidding, there is a small percentage of people who actually think out a spec in any game up to and including WoW .. everyone else copies it. Now , how I took blizzard to mean it ... was make more of the choices in talents fun not just for the sake of taking it to maximize dps on a raid or better your chances in pvp. You don't have to be smart to do anything in a game all you need to have is the initiative to look it up on any one of the 100 sites out there that give advice. Keep it the same , change it .. w/e, If it truely is more fun then that's great.

"More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?"

How come? And how is that remotely related to talent trees being more fun?

"Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial."

While crafting indeed isn't the game's strong point, I don't see how this change doesn't make crafting more superficial in any way. What it can do is give an incentive to make some of the things that are actually useful. This is an improvement, and nothing to complain about. If you want to criticise the crafting system, do so, don't criticise improvements to it.

"Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. "

This is simply a matter of streamlining.

"This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money."

What's really dumb is making players waste time perusing forums for answers to poorly documented in-game effects.

"Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. "

Yes, God forbid people actually play the game. I remember how epic it felt looking at mathematical formulas in the WoW forums.

Originally posted by singlecell

 After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.

 

Some of the highlights:

"Talent trees should be more fun."  - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?

I agree that talent trees should be fun to play with, it sucks that you NEED to have a cookie cutter spec for specific roles.

 

"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.

That's a great buff to trade skills, why complain?

 

"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. 

Some of the stats are confusing to new players, why not simplify it a bit? does it hurt you to have new players understand the game a little better?

 

"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.

Armor Penetration is confusing and I don;t know one person that understood that stat and how to min max it until they read a guide off a fansite or forum. That's a flaw.

 

Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. 

What are you talking about? Min maxers and people that put more time in still have an advatage. As a casual player myself it would take me ages to get the gear and gameplay experience of a hardcore player. Sorry but you are way off with the lost epic feeling in this game.

 

I want my game back, and you should too.

WoW is right here, still going strong and one of the best MMOs on the market. Don't let the accessibility of the game ruin your experience. It's only a video game what do you care if someone has a better understanding of a stat?

Your whole post is really silly tbh.

 

Originally posted by singlecell

 After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.

 

Some of the highlights:

"Talent trees should be more fun."  - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?

I don't get the problem.  Fun doesn't necessarily mean less complex.

 

"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.

It makes perfect sense that you should get more advancement for making complex items than components.

 

"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. 

 Let's see:

Spell Power/Attack Power
Armor Penetration
Crit Rating
Haste Rating
Hit Rating
Weapon Skill
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Resilience
Armor Rating
[x] Resistance

That's 6 different stats that basically determine how much damage you do, and 7 different stats that determine how much damage you take.  Total overkill, and only interesting for people who like to reverse engineer the math of the game and spend more time outside the game than in it.
 

"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.

People don't play video games so they can sit there with a calculator or reading tons of websites trying to figure out how to play the game.

 

Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. 

Theorycrafting and led-by-the nose mods and guides is exactly what's wrong with WoW to begin with.  Nothing about the game rewards the ability to think on the fly.  It's all about sitting around outside the game with a spreadsheet and a script, and then hitting button x when the mod tells you to.  If you wanna do math problems, work for an insurance company.

I want my game back, and you should too.

Wrong.  They aren't doing enough.  I'd rather they take all the numbers out of the game, randomize the encounters, and make players feel their way through it rather than calculating their way through it.

  I'll be here ...apparently drooling and/or counting matchsticks until your reply.

I LoLed.  And then went back to banging my head against the wall after my caretaker changed my adult diaper.

Seriously, where are these games that are so much more horrifically complex than WoW (in a way that actually makes the game more interesting, that is).