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8/21/09 9:07:07 PM#41
They do it again, the reason myself and most of my original guild stopped playing years ago As I understand from my friends who still play, Arthas still isnt even in the game yet.....and here they are announcing the next expansion. So I ask what is the point of even playing the game to get all that stuff, when this looms on the horizon and essentially all your stuff will be useless....I understand the business side, but from a game standpoint that kinda sucks WoW was one of the best and most fun games I ever played during its first few years, but I dunno, from an MMO perspective it just seems pointless to play if they are gunna keep rendering all your accomplishments obsolete. Playing : Aion, MO Played : EVE, GW, SB, DF, AoC, WoW, WaR, L1, L2 Loved: DAoC, EVE, SB, old WoW, L2 |
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8/21/09 9:07:24 PM#42
Originally posted by Laughing-man
They're also redesigning all the quests in the game. Changing an entire game from the inside out hardly seems small to me... This is far larger than the frontiers free booster that DAoC did, remodeling one large zone is not nearly as complex as redeisgning their game from the ground up. Redoing multiple classes to be entirely different, changing the landscapes and quests you have to do to level, redoing the crafting system... Every single complaint that the community has was addressed wtih this being released. They actually listened.
I guess you didn't play DAOC then did you? NF wasn't a remodel because each Frontier zone was seperate and outside of your own realm reached by a teleportation pad. they made 3 extremely larger zones, had a connecting island (i think that came later?), diveable water, new mobs, new siege equipment, a revamped keep system, guard towers, teleporting keep paths, entirely new realm abilities which also effected class designs, that was altered so all in all, you are seriously mistaken at the largeness and major overhall NF was, try again |
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8/21/09 9:08:48 PM#43
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Just one example: To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch. BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...) Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create. So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
Zone art/terrain is not code. They have a huge jump on the zone art for the expansion being able to load the original and modifing it. 3 times more money and resources? grats on pulling that number out of your ass. And with that said, I'm not a wow player but I am impressed at the road they are going down. They are learning from some mistakes that EQ had. |
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Laughing-man
 Elite Member
Joined: 4/23/09
I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes. |
8/21/09 9:13:58 PM#44
Originally posted by Vinterkrig
I guess you didn't play DAOC then did you? NF wasn't a remodel because each Frontier zone was seperate and outside of your own realm reached by a teleportation pad. they made 3 extremely larger zones, had a connecting island (i think that came later?), diveable water, new mobs, new siege equipment, a revamped keep system, guard towers, teleporting keep paths, entirely new realm abilities which also effected class designs, that was altered so all in all, you are seriously mistaken at the largeness and major overhall NF was, try again
I did, I'm not mistaken, I was a 50 reaver and a 50 warden. Im not seriously mistaken, I have no idea how you can think that the re model of a few zones can compare to the overhaul of two entire continents, adding in many zones and dungeons that were always unavailable to enter. Considering with that they are entirely overhauling classes and quests and dungeons... There is no comparison. They are adding in three new battle grounds, that alone trumps what you are mentioning. Thinking of trying TERA? Check out my guild on Basilisk Crag! We're actively recruiting! www.proxytera.enjin.com/ |
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8/21/09 9:14:21 PM#45
Originally posted by Laughing-man
They're also redesigning all the quests in the game. Changing an entire game from the inside out hardly seems small to me... This is far larger than the frontiers free booster that DAoC did, remodeling one large zone is not nearly as complex as redeisgning their game from the ground up. Redoing multiple classes to be entirely different, changing the landscapes and quests you have to do to level, redoing the crafting system... Every single complaint that the community has was addressed wtih this being released. They actually listened.
I saw where it said hundreds of new quests but must have missed the part where they are redoing all 1500 or so quests. And no its not bigger than Frontiers as Frontiers to this point had more features. They gave races the ability to be other classes but what really changed? This is lazy. Is it cool in a way...yes but when you stand back and look this will actually be maybe their laziest expansion to date. Not even the mention of a new hero class which I think we will never see another one. And Deathwing...who cares every guild on the server will have him on farm soon enough. Just think they could have been a bit more creative. On a side not good to see 5 yrs later they have fixed water.
Want to edit in: WHo cares about 3 battlegrounds when the esport arena still will trump all and be the focus. Meh it is what it is. Some will be excited and others will not..you are. |
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8/21/09 9:19:45 PM#46
Originally posted by Stzza
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8/21/09 9:25:24 PM#47
Originally posted by sylum69
I honestly doubt Blizz is overly concerned with TOR. They have no reason to be as none of the MMOs as of late have come close to being competitive. Aion has a small shot but its to shallow right now and may be an expansion away. When all else fails recycle old content and call it new...good job. WOW doesnt affect the game I play at all and never will because of 2 different types of players. I dont this was the answer. |
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8/21/09 9:30:54 PM#48
Originally posted by sylum69
I some how doubt blizzard planned this with Champions in mind. They planned it for Blizzon. |
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P
ya, but my point is they didn't re-design all of the original zones/si zones/and anywhere else with water to add a water you could dive into and we aren't talking about let downs or players not liking the game, and i don't need your history of daoc, i played from day one with a breaks here and there, but more or less its entire life toa/nf were huge expansions, we are talking about size and content of expansions are we not? i mean otherwise we shouldn't be talking at all, because this wow expansion isn't out and whats known is very little. these aren't really game altering things blizzard is doing, unlike what daoc did, game altering, and it didn't work out... mainly because they tried to make the pve people happy and in turn most of the players didn't want all that pve (they would have been playing everquest) and your right, i shouldn't have let catacombs off the hook there, that changed the entire look of the game (which i still think looks great despite what people say about the graphics) raiding aside, DAoC still has more depth then WoW ever will, thats pretty bad considering its the end all be all of mmos according to everyone fact of the matter is, its a nice thing WoW is doing, changing the original zones, and its something more themepark MMOs should do to make it more interesting for re-rolls and new players, but the size of the content is minimal, this SHOULD be a free expansion Yeah I understood your point, and we are obviously talking of content/size of the expansions, I was just saying the expansion's are not comparable, and mentioned their downfall because a ton of the content they promised in ToA was delayed until furthur "free expansions" NF was huge yes ( But they're still working on their class "dedicated class balancing/RA's" that came with NF all these years later ) so was TOA but they were both standard addon expansions that add a new content/quest ect, not changing the core part of the world drastically, this is huge, DAoC attempted this with the dragon campaigns, those were incredibly lame however. Yes I agree with you that WoW 's depth will never be what DAoC's was....I have not played an mmorpg that had the true world/depth feeling of DAoC. And I'd love for this to be a free expansion, but no mmorpg out there offers that much content for free ( aside from Lineage 2 which comes very close ) Either way, we seem to be 2 stop signs arguing with each other :)
P.S. they claim NF/housing were "free expansions" but do you remember after SI was launched NF/player housing/player mounts were promised in the next expansion, Instead, one expansion went retail lacking that specific content then future "free" expansions came with it. S H A D O W H A N D
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others. Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online |
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8/21/09 10:17:22 PM#50
Originally posted by Shadowhand
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P
ya, but my point is they didn't re-design all of the original zones/si zones/and anywhere else with water to add a water you could dive into and we aren't talking about let downs or players not liking the game, and i don't need your history of daoc, i played from day one with a breaks here and there, but more or less its entire life toa/nf were huge expansions, we are talking about size and content of expansions are we not? i mean otherwise we shouldn't be talking at all, because this wow expansion isn't out and whats known is very little. these aren't really game altering things blizzard is doing, unlike what daoc did, game altering, and it didn't work out... mainly because they tried to make the pve people happy and in turn most of the players didn't want all that pve (they would have been playing everquest) and your right, i shouldn't have let catacombs off the hook there, that changed the entire look of the game (which i still think looks great despite what people say about the graphics) raiding aside, DAoC still has more depth then WoW ever will, thats pretty bad considering its the end all be all of mmos according to everyone fact of the matter is, its a nice thing WoW is doing, changing the original zones, and its something more themepark MMOs should do to make it more interesting for re-rolls and new players, but the size of the content is minimal, this SHOULD be a free expansion Yeah I understood your point, and we are obviously talking of content/size of the expansions, I was just saying the expansion's are not comparable, and mentioned their downfall because a ton of the content they promised in ToA was delayed until furthur "free expansions" NF was huge yes ( But they're still working on their class "dedicated class balancing/RA's" that came with NF all these years later ) so was TOA but they were both standard addon expansions that add a new content/quest ect, not changing the core part of the world drastically, this is huge, DAoC attempted this with the dragon campaigns, those were incredibly lame however. Yes I agree with you that WoW 's depth will never be what DAoC's was....I have not played an mmorpg that had the true world/depth feeling of DAoC. And I'd love for this to be a free expansion, but no mmorpg out there offers that much content for free ( aside from Lineage 2 which comes very close ) Either way, we seem to be 2 stop signs arguing with each other :)
P.S. they claim NF/housing were "free expansions" but do you remember after SI was launched NF/player housing/player mounts were promised in the next expansion, Instead, one expansion went retail lacking that specific content then future "free" expansions came with it.
your point about the class/ra balance is really a useless point, as nerfs and love happens in ALL mmos o_O |
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8/21/09 10:20:03 PM#51
Originally posted by Laughing-man
I guess you didn't play DAOC then did you? NF wasn't a remodel because each Frontier zone was seperate and outside of your own realm reached by a teleportation pad. they made 3 extremely larger zones, had a connecting island (i think that came later?), diveable water, new mobs, new siege equipment, a revamped keep system, guard towers, teleporting keep paths, entirely new realm abilities which also effected class designs, that was altered so all in all, you are seriously mistaken at the largeness and major overhall NF was, try again
I did, I'm not mistaken, I was a 50 reaver and a 50 warden. Im not seriously mistaken, I have no idea how you can think that the re model of a few zones can compare to the overhaul of two entire continents, adding in many zones and dungeons that were always unavailable to enter. Considering with that they are entirely overhauling classes and quests and dungeons... There is no comparison. They are adding in three new battle grounds, that alone trumps what you are mentioning.
it actually wasn't a remodel, i'm not sure what you aren't getting here, they put in new systems, new abilities, etc..etc...etc.. as i already listed, so your totally off, and a 50 reaver and warden, wow, i bet you made all of what r3? honestly man, the old frontier zones are still in the coding/game... they are in fact still there, so the new frontiers is anything but a remodel, it was built up from the scratch, unlike this expansion, learn your facts and i doubt the crack is still there, but in midgard you were able to get in a crack to get in old frontiers after NF was made, they just blocked off the means to get there. i think you could in alb too... |
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Originally posted by Vinterkrig
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P
ya, but my point is they didn't re-design all of the original zones/si zones/and anywhere else with water to add a water you could dive into and we aren't talking about let downs or players not liking the game, and i don't need your history of daoc, i played from day one with a breaks here and there, but more or less its entire life toa/nf were huge expansions, we are talking about size and content of expansions are we not? i mean otherwise we shouldn't be talking at all, because this wow expansion isn't out and whats known is very little. these aren't really game altering things blizzard is doing, unlike what daoc did, game altering, and it didn't work out... mainly because they tried to make the pve people happy and in turn most of the players didn't want all that pve (they would have been playing everquest) and your right, i shouldn't have let catacombs off the hook there, that changed the entire look of the game (which i still think looks great despite what people say about the graphics) raiding aside, DAoC still has more depth then WoW ever will, thats pretty bad considering its the end all be all of mmos according to everyone fact of the matter is, its a nice thing WoW is doing, changing the original zones, and its something more themepark MMOs should do to make it more interesting for re-rolls and new players, but the size of the content is minimal, this SHOULD be a free expansion Yeah I understood your point, and we are obviously talking of content/size of the expansions, I was just saying the expansion's are not comparable, and mentioned their downfall because a ton of the content they promised in ToA was delayed until furthur "free expansions" NF was huge yes ( But they're still working on their class "dedicated class balancing/RA's" that came with NF all these years later ) so was TOA but they were both standard addon expansions that add a new content/quest ect, not changing the core part of the world drastically, this is huge, DAoC attempted this with the dragon campaigns, those were incredibly lame however. Yes I agree with you that WoW 's depth will never be what DAoC's was....I have not played an mmorpg that had the true world/depth feeling of DAoC. And I'd love for this to be a free expansion, but no mmorpg out there offers that much content for free ( aside from Lineage 2 which comes very close ) Either way, we seem to be 2 stop signs arguing with each other :)
P.S. they claim NF/housing were "free expansions" but do you remember after SI was launched NF/player housing/player mounts were promised in the next expansion, Instead, one expansion went retail lacking that specific content then future "free" expansions came with it.
your point about the class/ra balance is really a useless point, as nerfs and love happens in ALL mmos o_O It was an added note and not the subject of my post. S H A D O W H A N D
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others. Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online |
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf |
8/21/09 10:26:24 PM#53
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Zorndorf, i just have to say..... I agree. (ouch, think I broke something there). I think its a great idea to pull the players back together and give people a reason to revisit the original zones and not have large tracts of tired and worn out content just laying about.
"Just because you aren't paying doesn't mean it's not PTW." - Amaranthar |
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8/21/09 11:34:58 PM#54
Originally posted by Kyleran
Zorndorf, i just have to say..... I agree. (ouch, think I broke something there). I think its a great idea to pull the players back together and give people a reason to revisit the original zones and not have large tracts of tired and worn out content just laying about.
I think this is spot on in addressing something that is a problem in mmo that get older (especially ones with to many expansions). Still, I am not sold that this is the right solution to prevent or reinvigorate old content. In the past I have had severe doubts about how blizzard handles things and to my surprise it almost always works out for the better, so it would be unwise for me to dismiss this as something bad without reason. Yet I just can't look at it and say it sounds awesome. Maybe when more details come out. |
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8/21/09 11:42:51 PM#55
Originally posted by Shadowhand
The only REAL risk for any MMO expansion or "improvement" is pretty much changing the entire game, completely *cough* NGE *cough*.
To be honest, WoW's old area definitely needed a major overhal/improvements so this is probably well recieved by most WoW fans. I'll give this expansion a try but as of right now, I'm hooked on aion :)
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8/21/09 11:46:23 PM#56
I have to say, I did not even finish watching the trailer for it. The only interesting thing I saw was the archeology profession, that lets you customize skills or something.
I mean, they are repackaging the entire first part of the game......
.....?
Really? Sure, it will be phased but, mehhh. Ragnaros..onyxia...black rock mountain. Deadmines and that other lowbie instance.
Yeah. I Dunno. Don't hate the game or anything, but I can't understand how people can eat this all up <.<. |
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8/21/09 11:54:11 PM#57
i can see why my friends left that game a while ago and have never returned. It looks like your playing a cartoon . seems outdated for a game now adays . |
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8/22/09 12:14:20 AM#58
Let's remember for a second, this is all speculation, none of us know how successful or unsuccessful this expansion will really be.
Now my personal opinion as an ex-WoW 'r, I look forward to coming back for one thing. Flying in EK/Kalim. “The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination.” - Voltaire |
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8/22/09 12:20:35 AM#59
I'm actually pretty excited for this. I was already considering returning to WoW, and I think this seals the deal (albeit sometime down the road... likely Q2 or Q3 2010 or later). As others have said, I think re-doing existing areas was an excellent idea. Everquest seems like a ghost town now, not just because of fewer players, but because the expansions kept adding zones upon zones upon zones... so they ended up with like 300 empty zones because everyone went to play the newest content in the newest 25 zones (I'm just throwing numbers out there, I don't know the actual numbers of zones anymore, except that there are way too many of them). Giving players reason to re-visit old zones is a wonderful idea. The complete quest re-vamp (if I understand correctly) is a nice one too. I don't much care for the goblin race, but I think Worgens will be interesting. Won't necessarily add a huge new dynamic, but it might be fun to play a Worgen. I'm interested to see how the old-world revamp is going to affect major cities and dungeons too. Will Deadmines change? Will there be new instances? Will I finally be able to enter that annoying barred off instance portal in Stormwind? I quit the summer before Wrath of the Lich King and swore I was never coming back, but you know how that goes ;) The other thing is that some friends of mine recently moved back to WoW, so... friend gravity I guess. But I am really excited for the expansion. The one thing I'm not sure I like is the new class/race combos. I don't think they make much sense. Why can Taurens suddenly be paladins and priests? I don't really think priest and paladin fits with the Tauren background / culture at all. I don't think I like orc mages either, but that's a little more acceptable since they have always been playable warlocks... The gnome priests are odd too, but I guess they were in Gnomeregan. It just doesn't sit quite right with me. Oh well.
But for the record, I'm an MMO jumper mostly. I've played many different MMOs, liked most of them, but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. When I get bored with the strengths of one I leave what's left behind and play a different game. The repetitive nature of most MMOs ensures that this will happen for me, and until an MMO comes along that significantly reduces repetitive grind, I'm perfectly happy game hopping to keep things fresh. "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09) The best way to deal with trolls: |
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stayontarget
 Guide
Joined: 10/04/08
Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound |
8/22/09 12:26:14 AM#60
Originally posted by Swanea Sounds like the stigma system to me.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries... |
