I wasn't making things up. I was using articles already in existence, which I mis-understood due to not reading a separate pdf file. If I acted like a jerk, it wasn't my intention in any way.

draco plz stop posting thx

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Draco91

As I have stated over and over again, my reason for posting was to try to get rid of the argument that "WoW is better because it has millions more subscribers than any other MMO out there." The Tetris analogy uses that logic to show that Tetris is a better game than WoW. Most WoW players would probably disagree with that. It's meant to show the flaw in logic in the argument that I'm trying to get rid of. It's not WoW hating at all. 

 

WOW is better for the people who enjoy it.  It isn't better JUST because it has more players.  Its better for most people due to many, many things.  You can't deny how it tops out in critical acclaim as well.  So it has the most people playing and the best reviews, which means it has the most HAPPY fans.  It also has the largest and most dedicated community.  Just look at all the youtube videos and Machinima.  The hundreds of fan sites, dwarfing other MMOs.   Its entered mainstream pop culture and TV shows.  Other MMOs havent' acheived that.  People who have no clue about videogames might even recognize WOW.   There are tournaments with money prizes.  Other MMOs don't even come close.

Is it the best?  Thats personal opinion.  Nothing is the best for everyone.  But if accomplishments, reviews, happy players, influence on the genre and overall success can be translated into THE BEST.  WOW easily surpasses all others.  In the end, nobody really gives a crap about how many millions play except Blizzard/Activision stock holders=)  Like successful  resurants or cars, certain factors can't be ignored and put them ABOVE others, making them essentially better .  None are the best, because everyone judges things in different ways.  For me, WOW is the best MMO, because it offered me the best experience out of every other I've played over the years.  Its not because it has millions of people playing.  Its because for me its the best designed game for me.  Millions just happen to share my opinion=)

My point in starting the thread, expressed in a more clear and less offensive way. Thanks :)

Originally posted by beauxaj

Originally posted by Draco91

You forgot to add to that list. Gameboy Tetris runs on a gameboy. Super Nintendo Tetris runs on a Super Nintendo. World of Warcraft runs on a computer. They all have platform limitations. If my computer junks out and I don't have the money to buy one, but my console is still working, I can't play WoW on my console. If I lose my WoW software and have to get a new computer, I have to buy WoW all over again (unless they've finally made the client available over the net aside from the free trial?). There are P.C. versions of Tetris too, by the way.

 

Ummm, Long ago you could download Wow, the full client.  They recently changed to calling it the "Universal Client" when WOTLK came out.   Research man, RESEARCH!!!!  Read entire articles before you post, Find a good analogy, pick a topic AFTER you have everything lined up and ready to go, you aren't even debating any more , you're just throwing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks.

I know thats why you put the little unless statement in your post, but  couldn't you have taken the 6 seconds to find out and saved us all some time?

 

This just sums the whole thing up. Stop making a fool of yourself Draco, you have been proven wrong on everything you said in this thread.

 I've posted my apology and have admitted that I was wrong on several points. I'm not sure what else I can do to calm the flames that this thread has started. The continued attacks against my arguments (and against me) hardly seem necessary when I've pretty much said "Posting this was a mistake, I was wrong on several points, this did nothing but make the community angry, I'm sorry, I'm dropping it, I'll be more careful in future posts." Help me to end this horribly ugly misrepresentation of the community (which I am a part of) and move the MMORPG.com atmosphere back to what MMORPGs are meant for -- diversions from the stresses of real life. Distractions. *Fun*. *Friendly interaction*. Stopping the derision, deserved or not, on both sides, helps us get back to that ideal atmosphere. I'm asking for a truce here.

[edited for spelling]

Originally posted by Draco91 

I started typing my reply to this. But I realized what I have done halfway through typing it. This thread has failed to be the pleasant and civilized debate that I was hoping for, and become the derisive argument and ego contest that I was fearing for.

So you wrote a post and expected to get a certain type of response.

Well that is going to happen when you don't keep an open mind and you tailor your original post to encourage that type of reply.

It is called self fulfilling prophecy. 

Originally posted by Nebless

Originally posted by Draco91

 There are 11.5 million paying accounts. There are 1.8 million paying customers

 

Too many people have problems seperating these two.  Just look at any pre-NGE SWG rant.  'NGE came along and X zillon players left'.  Well it wasn't players, it was accounts.  Get the verbage right is all I ask, because for a company be it Blizzard or SOE it's the paying accounts that matter.  1 guy with 10,000 accounts is worth more than 2 with 1 each from a financial viewpoint.

Quite right, I'm positive that no company in the world cares 1 jot how many accounts 1 person may have, be it 1 to 1 million, it's the colour of your money they are after and at the end of the day it's money in their bank and out of ours that counts.

So no matter what way you look at it, if there are millions of active acounts but only 25% players owning them it makes absolutely no difference to Blizzard, you still have to pay a subscription for each account no matter what and if I was Blizzard I'd be one happy CEO each and every payday, thxs to all those no-lifers out there =).

 That's true. The original post could have been done much better. That's why I'm attempting to take a large part of the blame for the angry responses and the general degradation of the atomosphere and conversation here. The derision started before I really had a chance to be "more open" though. And derision tends to put you in a corner and make you feel like you have to defend your point at all costs. It's a nasty thing. This could have happened much, much differently, even if the positions taken were all still the same. All the same, it IS mostly my fault. Like I said, I'll be more careful next time :)

[Edit for clarity: replying to Dafid]

Originally posted by Draco91

 I've posted my apology and have admitted that I was wrong on several points. I'm not sure what else I can do to calm the flames that this thread has started. The continued attacks against my arguments (and against me) hardly seem necessary when I've pretty much said "Posting this was a mistake, I was wrong on several points, this did nothing but make the community angry, I'm sorry, I'm dropping it, I'll be more careful in future posts." Help me to end this horribly ugly misrepresentation of the community (which I am a part of) and move the MMORPG.com atmosphere back to what MMORPGs are meant for -- diversions from the stresses of real life. Distractions. *Fun*. *Friendly interaction*. Stopping the derision, deserved or not, on both sides, helps us get back to that ideal atmosphere. I'm asking for a truce here.

 

 

[edited for spelling]

LOL, am wondering what forum you thought you were visting, sure isn't the one I'm familiar with.

Yeah, you meant well, that's not going to fly here I'm afraid. 

Your thread's a pretty accurate representation of the community here, which is the way we like it

Remember, MMORPG's are serious business

I would conclude from the report that there is a huge market out there for the game that can emulate solitaire and get payed for it lmao

 lol :D

"World of Solitaire Online"...

Your skill in moving Spades has increased to (9)!

Number of customers doesn't matter, the number of paying subscriptions does. Because the bottom line is money.

And we all know there are many people who multibox, so we already knew that the number of subscribers was greater than the number of customers.

Originally posted by Eben

Somewhere, an alarm klaxon just went off, and Zorndorf is being awoken, changed from his Thrall pajamas, and being wheeled to a keyboard, so that he may redeem the honor of all that is WoW.

Just wait.  You shall reap the whirlwind.

Back on topic, I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before, and that it's never occurred to me either.  Everyone that I know personally that plays WoW, all have multiple accounts, at least two, but a few have three or more.   

^^^ This is comedy gold!

no number is exact not even from blizzard. However, you better believe its damn close to those numbers though. Never really understood why people even care at this point. Most of the hate comes from people who never even touched one of blizzards games.

Originally posted by beeker255

Originally posted by Eben

Somewhere, an alarm klaxon just went off, and Zorndorf is being awoken, changed from his Thrall pajamas, and being wheeled to a keyboard, so that he may redeem the honor of all that is WoW.

Just wait.  You shall reap the whirlwind.

Back on topic, I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before, and that it's never occurred to me either.  Everyone that I know personally that plays WoW, all have multiple accounts, at least two, but a few have three or more.   

^^^ This is comedy gold!

rofl no one i know that plays wow has mutliple accounts that are active. Blizzard only takes into account those that are actively paying every month for an account.

Once again, people are judging something by how many others do it instead of their own preference. Not just limited to gaming I'm afraid.

In the arts as well as politics people who have no vested interest somehow think that the number of others doing something validate it's quality or not. Lemmings.

 Love or Hate WOW....the damn thing stays on the top selling list of games.....P.s. I put myself in the h8terade category but there is plenty of threads to dis the game in just saying ALOT of people play it :)

Originally posted by Draco91

 There are 11.5 million paying accounts. There are 1.8 million paying customers (which is still impressive, but not nearly as much).

ok so every wow player has like 10 active accounts.

one second please

*takes a deep breath*

/FACEPALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. SOMEONE GO CALL THE MENTAL DOCTOR 

Originally posted by Draco91

 I found this article in another thread to support a completely different claim / subject: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/  but note the following exerpt:

 

"Neilsen also calculated some base stats for WoW, including the fact that 1.8 million unique people played the game..." That means that of the "11.5 million subscribers" last reported by Blizzard, only 1.8 million are different people. The rest are second and third accounts and the like (assuming that this study is accurate). What's more, Blizzard's definition of subscriber DOES count multiple accounts from the same person (see the definition at the bottom of the most recent report, from December 2008: http://eu.blizzard.com/en/press/081223.html. They do a good job of telling you what does  constitute a subscriber when they calculate their numbers, and multiple accounts are not mentioned.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing WoW, there are many who think it's either a good game, or the best one out there at the moment. What I am saying, is that the "WoW is awesome, stop disagreeing with me because 11.5 million other subscribers agree with me so you must be wrong" argument is a load of trash, not only because the majority isn't always right, not only because the "fun quality" of WoW as an MMO is subjective, but now also because those numbers are stretched and falsified. There are 11.5 million paying accounts. There are 1.8 million paying customers (which is still impressive, but not nearly as much).

 

Someone will probably flame the hell out of me now, but I can't stand the "everyone's doing it" argument in the first place... much less so when it's largely insanely stretched truth... or altogether false.

 

Flame away.

 

Edit:

1.) I'm NOT NOT NOT bashing WoW. I've played on and off since closed beta. I have several alts and a lv 64 druid (I quit the summer before Lich King came out). It's not a bad game. In the past couple of weeks, I had been thinking about returning to it to play it with some friends. What I AM bashing is the "everyone does it" argument.

2.) I didn't read the PDF file. The article is actually talking about U.S. numbers. 

The real issue is, are all MMO statitics gathered the same way?  I't my recolection that the games developers are the ones providing the stats, so like most stats they must be taken with a grain of salt (just like virtually all statitics).

Would be nice if someone could develop a standard, but I don't see it happening.

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Originally posted by Zorndorf

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Originally posted by Draco91

 To those of you saying the numbers are from U.S. only: The article I linked to is speaking of the number of female players in the U.S. being around 400,000, yes, but when it runs down to the part about the subscribers, it doesn't say, "1.8 million subscribers in the U.S." it says, "Neilsen also calculated some base stats for WoW, including the fact that 1.8 million unique people played the game". Base stats. For WoW. That means stats for the game, not the country. And while I don't think this was the issue, the Bliz article does specifically say 11.5 million worldwide.
 
BAl bla bla....

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Again plain LIES.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040609_fnl1.pdf
read the study.
the study was sampled from ....185.000 UNITED STATES tracked PC's.... Page 2 of the above.
As the sample is ..... 185.000 US PC's it clearly showed it only can speak for the 1.800.000 US residents playing WOW.
Not even CAnada is included in these sampled US PC's....
Like I said.
Nothing but a bad troll attampt.
 
 
 

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Zorn , answer me one question. If WoW had only 10,000 subscribers, would you still play?